BS: Scottish Vacation Advice

Subject: BS: Scotland Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 12:45 PM

My sister and I are hoping for a trip to Scotland next summer and are trying to plan (squabbling over) an itinerary. We are probably going to go the fly/drive/self-catering route, for 7-10 days. As I am a great one for going off the beaten track, I thought it might be helpful to get some input from Scottish Catters or those who have visited, and get some ideas for things that one must see when in Alba. We hope to, of course, hear as much music as possible. We also promise in advance to make every effort to not be Obnoxious American Tourists. ;~)
Many thanks!
HC

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:02 PM

See the Isle of Skye. Unbelievable beauty. Then there's Flora MacDonald's old house and grave.
Edinburgh is my favorite city, John O'Groats is interesting, and of course, there's Culloden.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rasener
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:17 PM

Ben Nevis and Glen Nevis, Glencoe, Calendar, Aberfoyle

All of the above will give you beautiful scenery

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:19 PM

DON'T carry a sporran without a license!

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 01:23 PM

Thanks, everyone! R, can girls carry sporrans or is that just a guy thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:10 PM

Out here in Idaho girls even wear pants, but we can still tell 'em apart from the boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:18 PM

If you want somewhere quiet, beautiful and not crowded - try Galloway.

Mind I am biased - my wife comes from there.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:39 PM

Rap.... ALL small breasted? Or, conversely,.... nevermind.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM

Iona

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:50 PM

That's at the top of my list, kat!

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 04:06 PM

Don't forget to watch for a small piece of Iona marble...it's very special and beautiful! (I am almost as green with envy!**bg**)

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 04:48 PM

I second Culloden. The place is haunted! Also Glencoe.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Hillheader
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 05:14 PM

Iona is a "must see". Also, if you can, take the train from Glasgow to Mallaig (West Highland Line) and see some of the most beautiful and rugged scenery Britain has to offer.

Also agree with Glencoe and Culloden. They are very atmospheric.

Fit in the Kelvingrove Museum and Art Gallery in Glasgow too if you can. Recently renovated it's fantastic.

Most of all enjoy. We don't mind Americans really!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 10:27 PM

Don't bother with Balmoral. We pulled into there one chilly, rainy, foggy October evening and did Chuck or Liz or even Phil so much as offer
us a hot cuppa and some biscuits? Ha! It was then that I wrote them completely out of my social book! Should they ever come to Idaho, cold and wet and hungry, I'll simply give them some tea, sandwiches, and send them on there way! I can't be as discourteous to travelers as they were!

Now, Edinburg Castle is great. And the distilleries are great for touring as well. I also enjoyed Inverness, or rather, what I saw of it.

If you get to Skye, try stappog. It's sort of a Scots Whisky mousse and quite good (we got the recipe and make it here, sometimes, for special occassions).

There's some good shopping in St. Andrews, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 10:53 PM

Culloden haunted? Hell, just reading the name gives me goosebumps.
Go see Megan (Catter) on Orkney.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: patriot1314
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:48 AM

try this site.....

http://www.secret-scotland.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 03:53 AM

MIDGES!!!! Take a bucket of insect repellent and a crate of antihistamines.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Drumshanty
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:25 AM

What time of year are you coming, HouseCat?

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: redsnapper
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:28 AM

Second Callendar, Aberfoyle (+ Loch Lomond), Skye + Kyle of Lochalsh, Iona, Edinburgh, Glasgow to Mallaig train journey, Glencoe, Culloden (a must) and would add Ullapool, Strathpeffer, Loch Ness, South Ronaldsay (short ferry from Scrabster or Gill's Bay), Stirling.

Call by if you like in Dunblane (near Stirling) for a cuppa or a session!

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:14 AM

Killiecrankie, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:22 AM

As someone currently living in the gray city of Aberdeen, I can't reccomend it as a great tourist destination, it is pretty much the same as Dundee or Stirling IMHO. On the plus side there are a few sessions about in the city.
Aberdeenshire however is a great place with lots of touristy stuff.
If you come in early July there is the Scone Game fair in Perthshire and the Stonehaven Folk Festival in Aberdeenshire. There are highland games most weekends, and lots of Farmers markets.
The Western Isles are lovely as it Speyside, lots of whisky distilleries!
It is a very nice place to visit!

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Stu
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:32 AM

The Orkney Islands - a place of incredible beauty and atmosphere.

The journey via ferry off the end of the mainland to Stromness is one of the most fantastic sea trips in the world - out of Scrabster in a brisk breeze and fine sunshine, Gannets diving all around the boat as we bobbed around like a cork in the Atlantic swell. Past the Old Man of Hoy and then into the channels inbetween the Islands - I briefly glimpsed a dolphin before we docked at Stromness.

Highland Park and fine beer in the bar by the harbour (I forget it's name). Maes Howe, The Ring of Brodgar, Kirkwall Cathedral and Scapa Flow.

Wonderful!

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:00 PM

Oh people! You've made me want to leave home this very instant! I told my sister we're going to have to stay at least a month (I wish)to get in all these places. She is unfamiliar with Mudcat and was astounded at all the kind responses. Thanks to everyone. Drumshanty, we're looking at probably July or early August.
Happy me :~)

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:03 PM

stiweard there are several bars by the harbour just how many did you visit before you had that pint :)

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: redsnapper
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:13 PM

P.S. Lots of good music sessions round Stirling and nearby, e.g. 2 Baker Street, Stirling on a Wednesday evening.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Grab
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:27 PM

My personal favourite spot anywhere remains looking down into the Kingshouse Valley from the eastern end of White Corries. A bit out of your way though.

The West Highlands are the classic place to see scenery-wise. If you can spare a day to go driving round there, that'd be great. But it might be raining and blowing a gale! Visit Glen Nevis, but don't bother climbing Ben Nevis - it's not much fun as a walk except to be able to say you've done it.

The Scottish borders and lowlands are the best place for old castles, strong-houses and stuff like that though. You can spend weeks going from one castle to the next.

Edinburgh's got a lot to see. And Glasgow's pretty good too - it's not the dive that it got a reputation for being years ago.

One thing to warn Americans of is the driving. Driving in the US is mostly straight roads at a fairly constant speed, so it's not too stressful and you can do quite some distance no problems. Driving in Britain involves roads that constantly twist all over the place, so you're always speeding up and slowing down. It's much worse in Scotland, because there's more risk of wet roads, low visibility and running into sheep (be warned that there are no fences on most of the roads and there *will* be sheep in the way somewhere). You may know all this already, of course, but if this is your first time then I just wanted to give a warning that a 200-mile drive on Scottish roads will leave you completely exhausted. (Before you started planning visiting Edinburgh in the morning and then getting to Aberdeen for the evening! :-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:37 PM

Thanks Graham. I have heard driving horror tales from friends along those lines! My sister is very much in favor of doing a coach tour for that very reason. I just find tours a bit confining, so we're butting heads over it right now. Especially when I hear of sessions and music such as redsnapper was referring to. Kat, I have a wee bit of marble that a friend brought back for me some years ago, it's been my "wishing stone" for some time now.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: redsnapper
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:37 PM

I would second what Grab said... Glasgow is much better these days and there are a lot of things well worth seeing, e.g. Kelvingrove Museum/Art Gallery

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: redsnapper
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:38 PM

Also a number of excellent sessions in Glasgow, e.g. Babbity's on a Saturday afternoon.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 03:31 PM

A few random oddities:

- the coastal path north of Arbroath to Auchmithie (weird red sandstone cliffs and a great fish restaurant at the end of it, visit the fish smokeries in Arbroath too)

- the mausoleum of the Dukes of Hamilton, in Hamilton (one of the creepiest buildings I have ever been in, with the longest echo in Britain, masonic symbolism, an Egyptian sarcophagus and a basementful of dead Hamiltons in crumbing stone niches like something out of Edgar Allan Poe)

- Stirling Castle (the best mediaeval site in Scotland)

- the Charles Rennie Mackintosh house in Glasgow (attached to the Glasgow University Library) for the most obsessional interior you'll ever see

- the Scottish Fisheries Museum in Anstruther (lots of boats) and you can do a boat excursion to the Isle of May bird sanctuary from there - also one of the best fish and chips shops anywhere, on the quayside

- climb one of the bigger hills in Edinburgh (Blackford Hill, Calton Hill or Arthur's Seat) before dawn on a misty morning and watch the sunrise

The Babbity Bowster session in Glasgow is acoustically appalling. You can't hear the music for echoing voices. I gave up playing there ages ago, you can't hear another musician across the table (also they drop the music when there's a big football match on, as crowds of drunken Celtic supporters are much more profitable). Sandy Bell's or the Tass in Edinburgh are much better, people listen.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:34 PM

I could have added: Culross (on the Forth, directly across the water from the Grangemouth oil refinery) is a remarkably preserved 17th century town. You can get there by bus from Dunfermline (the abbey there is worth seeing) and the bus route carries on to Stirling.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 09:26 AM

Thanks, Jack and RS. I really want to go to Sandy Bells, it's been recommended to me quite often.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:22 AM

Jack Campin
Used to live in Grangemouth and agree Culross is a nice place.
Stirling castle car park at night brings back many good thoughts (hard on the car suspension though) Used to go out with somebody in Stirling :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 11:54 AM

I have been disappointed in Sandy Bell's the last couple of times.

Just people playing as fast as they can. And a bad bodhran player last time, nothing worse.

What's the Tass?

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 01:57 PM

Bell's is quite different on different nights. I usually play on Sunday afternoons (quietish Scottish session). Some of the more Irish nights are rather like you describe. There isn't a regular bad bodhran player at Bell's but one did pay a rare visit not long ago when I was there. Drowned out by a very good (and more regular) bodhran player on that occcasion and will probably not be back.

The Tass used to be the Royal Archer, corner of the High Street and Jeffrey Street. Again every night is different (but no Irish nights as far as I know).

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 06:15 AM

Ardnamurchan Point, Glenelg (the sea otters at Kylerhea), Talisker (Bay) Lower Diabaig, Applecross, Achiltibuie, Handa Island.

All places up the west coast at the end of spectacular narrow roads, but nothing quite like them.

Watching the sun go down from Uist or Barra.....

Paws

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Hillheader
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:41 AM

Jack Campin

Are the Dukes of Hamilton back in the mausoleum? They used to be in the Bent Road Cemetery because of the subsidence in the Mausoleum (which also caused the demolition of the Palace. I would have thought that with the flooding around the area they would be reluctant to move them back.

Housecat

Add Chatelherault to the list!!! Details Here

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:58 AM

I can recommend Skye, and the main land around Skye too. We're lucky to have family in the Highlands and will be up there again in October and hopefully attending the mudgather up there too!

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 01:37 PM

Just watching the cricket on Sky.

I'll get me jockstrap.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Pistachio
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 04:51 PM

Villan, it's Callander! I'm in my proofreading mode!
Hi redsnapper, I'm from Bridge of Allan so will PM you before my next trip north.
Hazel.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:12 PM

I wondered how long it would take before someone noticed the deliberate error :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: GUEST,Ladyfiddler
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:00 PM

You cannot beat in the whole wide world Achiltibuie and the Summer Isles.Remote ,but still on the mainland,wild and beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Folkiedave
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:41 PM

Thanks for that Jack............I will remember to get there Sundays....

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 08:13 PM

I haven't been to the Hamilton Mausoleum for a good few years - it hadn't occurred to me that dead Masonic aristocrats would worry about getting wet, but you may be right.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 02 Jul 07 - 06:04 PM

South Ronaldsay, tomb of the eagles, views all aound Scapa as you drive to Kirkwall over the barriers.Sessions in "The Reel" in Kirkwall on a Saturday. The ferry inn in Stromness. Orkney, wonderfully beautiful place.So much to see and do. (Foggy in the Hope today though !)
Try a round trip. You can come via John O Groats on the small ferry in the summer to Berwick, or Gill Bay to St Margaret's Hope, and then from Kirkwall to Aberdeen over night, or Stromness to Scrabster and Thurso. All of these can be reversed.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

Thanks again to everyone for the great suggestions, I've been spending all my time at work researching them on the web! I am amazed at how much I'm learning, and we're having great fun mapping it all out - yes, I'm geeky enough to be doing the map on the wall with the sticky pins in it. :~).
Off to my family reunion in St. Louis MO now, back on Sunday if I live through it...nah, it'll be fun.
HC

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM

What Grab said,

Did it and would do it again.

But (Based on my own experience)

Maps can be misleading to a yank.
The colors indicate the "quality" of the route
Cannot remember which is best.
Anyway according to the map, we were traveling on a road which was one step below the UK equivalent of an interstate. Might've been called an "A" route.
It turned out that it was mostly one lane wide.
There were occasional wider places where two cars traveling in opposite directions could pass. If two cars met about halfway between such places, one had a very long distance to back up. Don't know how that would've been deteremined in the highlands. Glad I didn't find out.

More disturbing was traveling up a rise on a one lane road and not being able to see over the crest to determine whether someone was coming in the opposite direction. My daughter's strategy was to hit the gas. Mine was to slow way down and pray.

Some "lesser" back roads were (at least to a yank) indistinguishable from a very long and unmarked driveway.
A couple of times we were not sure we were on a "real" road rather than some farmer's driveway.

We requested an automatic transmission but there were none available when we picked up the car. The fellow behind the desk said that they were quite rare, no matter what the website said. Steering with the right hand while shifting with the left was initially scary and tricky, but eventually doable.

European notions of adequate vehicle size are different. We reserved a four passenger vehicle. Assuming of course that we'd get a four door sedan. Wrong. Two door fiat with a back seat. Holds four people if two passengers do not have legs and nobody is carrying luggage. Upgraded to a larger sedan.

When two roads meet you don't get an intersection or an interchange, you get a roundabout. Even on interstate level roads. Very interesting experience to be traving at interstate speeds and come to a roundabout. When I hit my first roundabout, I had to circle three times before I could figure out how to get out.

The roads are well marked. Only had one problem. At a key point a crucial sign was vague and I ended up doing a complete circle around Newcastle so I could make the correct choice the second time through. Didn't realize there was a problem until my wife said "Didn't we already pass the Newcaste Brewery?"

No matter how much we complain, gasoline prices are significantly higher in Europe than in the states. The first time you fill up the tank, be prepared for major sticker shock.

HOWEVER,
The entire family loved every mile.
In many places you simply drive from one awe-inspiring view to another.
You'll actually suffer from "awe inspiring view" overload.

Driving is the best way to see Scotland and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:25 PM

I agree, Russ. It is a beautiful country.
I never had any problem at all going from auto to manual gearbox, or driving on the left. I just pretend I'm always passing someone.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 04:36 PM

See Scara Brae (spelling)
In Orkney I visited a private museum and held in my hand a 5000 year old skull.
The ring of Brodgar is much older than Stonehenge.

I'm almost homesick for the highlands.I must have lived there in a past life.

If you are there during the Tattoo in Edinburgh castle, see it. 75 highland pipers all skirling away at the same time. Wow, what a sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Drumshanty
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 06:06 PM

Hello HouseCat (and all)

Can't fault any of the advice you've been given about where to visit when you are here. Being a native of the north-east (sort of) I'd also recommend the south coast of the Moray Firth, but I've also got a lot of love for Orkney - it's so beautiful and there's so much to see.

If you're looking for music, you could do worse than seek out a festival. The TMSA publishes a festival calendar every year. The link is to this year's and it'll give you an idea of what's on when you are here. Next year's should come out at the beginning of the year.

That TMSA website also has lists of sessions and other events - most of which depends upon the organisers submitting the information, so it won't have it all.

Another informative website is Footstompin. Check out the "guides" section, and there's also a (fairly lively) forum. Worth a try.

I really hope you make it - you'll love it. I do...

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Jul 07 - 06:59 PM

Scotland has perfectly adequate public transport and you can see virtually the whole country without bringing America's genocidal car culture with you. All the places I suggested are accessible by bus or train.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: HouseCat
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:05 PM

Back from the family reunion, to more lovely posts. Sister and I hashed it out on the drive to St. Louis and we have struck a happy medium. Jack's (classically Jack) suggestion had occurred to us already - we could use public transport without having to be bound to a tour group and without Sister dying from fright at my driving.(She refused to even consider getting behind the wheel.)Russ, your post convinced me for sure when you said "shifting, gearbox, etc" as I have yet to really learn to drive a stick shift properly. But it sounds so lovely. Thanks to Drumshanty. I can tell you love the place. And I lurk about on Footstompin's forum but I'm too chicken to post anything. Kendall, thanks for the advice and the raindance, it worked and it's STILL raining ;~).
HC

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:18 PM

GO west. Anywhere that you need to get on a ferry to get to. Or two ferries. Ross of Mull and Iona would do fine. You are spoilt for choice. Avoid the east coast on a first trip(unless you are on a search for Arbroath smokies).

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:34 PM

Footstompin is not a good place to ask about general holiday stuff, but if you want to know about musical events on your itinerary, people there will be very helpful. There are subscribers in more parts of Scotland than this forum gets.

To me, the Isle of May has a lot more atmosphere than Iona. Nothing wrong with Iona, and I've been there lots of times, but it doesn't have the Isle of May's sheer weirdness -mediaeval ruins, millions of psycho birds, gun emplacements, and bizarre physical shape.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 09:48 AM

all right, I'll have to declare - this is only dumb sassenach perspective.

But I'd say ...Edinburgh (work hard and do it in a day and a bit) Things to see. The castle, Holyrood house - no need to look round - but see it.

See painting of Old Lady Frying Eggs by Velasquez at the Scottish National Gallery. See Sculpture of Women with Throat Cut by Giacometti at Scottish museum of of Contemporary Art (a bit outside the town - you need transport). Take in the henry Moores - no need to stop long.

If you can read RL Stevensons Kidnapped before - if not, see Michael Caine version preparatory to visit, there is Edinburgh castle yet again and much of ScotlanD. Culloden and Rannoch Moor. there is a museum of memorabilia covering Stevenson, Burns and Scott in Edinburgh - but sometimes parts of it are closed.

Personally i like the lowlands - peebles Aberfeldy - places like that are beautiful.

Stirling University in summer has student rooms for hire and the canteen food is quite good - the campus is very nice and set round a Loch. there are generally cultural things - concerts and the like going on at the university.

You need a good car, if you go the highlands as the hills are very steep.

best of luck, and take a insect repellent and a pakamac if the highlands is what you want!

the thing is, that leaves such a lot out. Its a big country, but try and get some of that - try some Arbroath smokies, haggis, and Talisker and Glenlivet whisky.

Subject: RE: BS: Scottish Vacation Advice
From: Rasener
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:55 PM

Did anybody mention the Loch Lomond & the Trossachs National Park

http://www.lochlomond-trossachs.org/lomond/gallery.asp

Play golf on the Dunoon Cowal Golf Club - doesn't matter if you can't play, the view is really nice. Visit Cowal Bird Garden, Dunoon Castle, Benmore Botanic Garden.

http://www.argyllonline.co.uk/index.asp?id=204