BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:51 PM

"There are certain types of humor, Rinslinger, that work precisely because one already knows the punch line. The show "Laugh-In" was largely based on that principle, for instance..."

                I guess it just doesn't work for me. "Laugh-In" certainly didn't.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:49 PM

I agree that "As Good As It Gets" is a story of redemtion and recovery through love. It has humor because, often, reality is funny.
I would compare it to "African Queen", which was funny, meaningful and profitable. It was, surely, Bogart's best performance.
On the subject of Hollywood fluff. I confess a weakness for well done slapstick. "The Wrong Box", "Noises Off" and "The Producers" (The 1st one) are worthy of repeat looks.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Raedwulf
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 01:19 PM

All such greatest lists tend to be biased towards recent memory. Nothing wrong with debate, but the fact that All Quiet On The Western Front seems to be missing says that it's less than definitve.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 01:03 PM

There are certain types of humor, Rinslinger, that work precisely because one already knows the punch line. The show "Laugh-In" was largely based on that principle, for instance. It's one's anticipation of the approaching punchline that provides the humor.

One comedy that never loses its power for me is Groundhog Day. It's a very funny and very wise movie which makes a great point about karma and human existence. It could be seen as a parable about reincarnation and the search for wisdom on the part of the human soul, matter of fact.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:59 AM

Mike M

Works of art do not have to be esoteric to fail to get a big audience. Often, just having some art can do that. Certainly, having obvious crowd-pulling moves will get an audience (aka 'giving the audience what it wants'). Hollywood (tho' not only H.) is shameless for doing stuff to get the biggest possible audience.

Lots of rubbish does that.

Lots of art doesn't do the shameless bit, and is no less great.

And we should distinguish what is designed just as entertainment (what a lot of people want only) or merely to get the biggest possible box-office takings, from what has higher aspirations.

For example, catharsis, to move, to hint at reality, to enlighten, to express deeply, to offer a new understanding, to produce a beautiful object, as a means to development,       and other stuff.





       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

Wesley asked me why I liked "As Good As It Gets", and I have been thinking about it.

For a start, I think Jack Nicholson is a great actor - he can portray every emotion without even speaking. I think the humour is quirky, and I like that all the characters are battlers - ordinary people who are trying to carve out a nice life for themselves with what life has handed them. His character, Melvin, and those of Helen Hunt as the waitress, Carol, and Greg Kinnear as the gay artist, Simon, are fully developed with so much depth that you feel that there might be even more to learn.

I find Jack Nicholson's obsessive compulsive character quite fascinating, as you are gradually let into his world, and see what drives him, and realise how hard it is for him to interact normally with other people. You see glimpses of his soft side, but he mostly keeps his guard up - he is really in survival mode - until he is forced to interact with Simon, his dog, and Carol.

These people start to affect him - or should I say, they start to affect each other, each in their own way, and in the end it is their salvation. I keep coming back to the compliment Melvin pays Carol "You make me want to be a better man." They are all helping each other to move towards being the best they can be, and having the best life they can have - and in this imperfect world, that is AS GOOD AS IT GETS!

I find this movie emotionally moving AND funny (a winning combination) and I feel uplifted by the time it's finished. That's why I like it.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:12 AM

If there are any more free orang utans out there, I think they may be in with a chance for the governor's post in California...

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 06:59 AM

Little Hawk might be interested in knowing that the orangutan never gets laid but does succede Eastwood as mayor of Carmel, a post he filled. most ably, until he was assasinated by Lee VanCleef.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:08 AM

"...Sorry, I see no necessary connection between size of audience and merit/quality/greatness.

Anyone could produce any number examples of very popular rubbish..."

Autolycus,

The 'popular rubbish' tends to be sold initially hype and doesn't seem to last, hence my idea of waiting five or ten years until the hype died down and the initial populism had worn off.

W

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 12:26 AM

I wonder about comedies. They're funny the first time you watch them, but the second time around you know all the punch lines.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 08:35 PM

Couldn't agree more about the Coen brothers. I already nominated Miller's Crossing. Raising Arizona is also a real gem, although it's not what you would call one of those "big" films...just a great offbeat little comedy.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,Dusty Tapes
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 08:11 PM

American Film Institute. May be that only American films were considered, but then there's a David Lean and Stanley Kubrick movie there. Strange. Open it up to international movies and there are a bunch of Kurosawa, Bergman, Fellini films, etc. Limit it to American movies and there are lots that are great, maybe as good as some on the list. Someone mentioned Cher, and 'Moonstruck' is an excellent movie. So many...a movie called 'Fresh', one called 'Ghost Dog,' one called 'Smoke.' Not big-dollar movies but definitely first-rate, in my humble opinion. The Coen brothers make outstanding movies. I'd have to pick 8 1/2, The Seventh Seal & Seven Samurai as the best of the best. Damn...High Noon, Once upon a time in the West, Oxbow Incident...lots and lots of good westerns. I need to dust off my VCR tapes.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 07:13 PM

That's odd. I always assume that the orangutan from those two Clint Eastwood films is finally getting laid...

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM

Of course, popularity, alone, does not determine the greatness of a movie but neither does esoteric artistry. I thought that the Canadian production of Oedipus Rex was terrific but it was seen by so few people that it harly qualifies as an artistic success. (Art is like a radio wave. Without a receiver, it does not exist). Truly great films, films that alter the vistas of a universal audience, are few and far between. Some "great' films are flawed. "It's A Wonderful Life" is hokey and Capracorny but, to the generations that have turned it into a ritual, it is the epitome of the American concept of religious faith. Unlike the two Clint Eastwood movies with the monkey, that far outbox officed it, Wonderful Life endures and will continue to endure. I don't know about you but, every time I hear a bell, I assume that Clarence got his wings.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: 3refs
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:54 AM

Slap Shot and Porky's.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:05 AM

Yeah, I don't buy this thing about women and men who initially can't stand each other but end up eventually falling in love. However, it does provide much opportunity for drama, doesn't it? I guess that's why it is a device so beloved by the moviemakers.

What is far more common in life is women and men who like each other great at the beginning, and can't stand each other after they're been together awhile... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:57 AM

Jenny - "As Good As It Gets" really got on my nerves. It shows a woman falling in love with a very disfunctional man who has shown only the slightest intrest in improvement. What did you see in that movie that you liked? As I've gotten older I find myself getting bugged by the types of relationships that Hollywood promotes. This was one of them.

A Hollywood storyline that really bothers me is the man and woman who are in conflict for most of the movie until they suddenly look deeply in each others eyes and fall into each other arms, kiss, and live happily ever after. I thought of "As Good As It Gets" as just a variation of that theme.YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 01:43 AM

And while on the subject of Cher, another movie I have always enjoyed is "The Witches of Eastwick". There have been a number of really good Jack Nicholson movies - the aforementioned "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" - definitely one of the greats, and "As Good As It Gets", to name a few.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:55 PM

"Moonstruck" was a great movie. I must say that I have always been impressed by Cher when she went into acting. She's a very good actress, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:22 PM

Sorry, I see no necessary connection between size of audience and merit/quality/greatness.

Anyone could produce any number examples of very popular rubbish.





      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:37 AM

CASINO,ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST,AND GOODFELLAS ARE UNDOUBTEDLY THE BEST FILMS EVER MADE.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:55 AM

Walrus is on the right path but that kind of determination needs more time. "Wizard" and "GWTW" were made almost 70 years ago. Their enduring popularity is tested. More recent films that would qualify include "Psycho", "Moonstruck" and "Singin' In The Rain".
Films like "Citizen Kane" and "Birth Of A Nation" were inovative and important but too esoteric to retain a sizable audience. They are more like such mileposts as "The Jazz Singer" and that train robbery movie where the guy shoots a gun at the camera.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:54 AM

"...A successful artist, in any field, needs an audience or else he is whistling in the closet. The best films are those that reach to their audeince to such an extent that they leave a lifelong impression. "The Wizard of Oz" comes to mind ... I don't know anyone who hasn't seen the movie again and again. "Citizen Kane" may have been a terrific movie ... but they ain't showing it in TV every holiday..".

Perhaps the selection criterion should be the numbers of tape, DVD and/or ticket sales, say from 5 or 10 years after release (to avoid ticket and home sales from 'release marketing)?

W

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:32 PM

I still say the Paul Newman movie I like best is "Sometimes a Great Notion." It couldn't have been made without Huddie Lebetter.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:21 PM

The Wizard of Oz definitely ranks as one of the most classic films in that sense, and yes, so does "Gone With The Wind", although to me it's way too melodramatic.

Here's a Paul Newman film that I would rank among the finest 100 films of all time: "Hud"

It was a masterpiece...and it was the perfect vehicle for the young Paul Newman.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:01 PM

I do not think that a "Greatest Films" list should be drawn according to subjective taste. That should be the basis for a "Favorite Films" list. A successful artist, in any field, needs an audience or else he is whistling in the closet. The best films are those that reach to their audeince to such an extent that they leave a lifelong impression. "The Wizard of Oz" comes to mind. I am a folksinger and I can assure you that the one song that every audience will sing is "Over the Rainbow". I don't know anyone who hasn't seen the movie again and again. "Citizen Kane" may have been a terrific movie (I thought it was slow moving and self-conciously theatrical) but they ain't showing it in TV every holiday.
Of course, this means that "Gone With the Wind" is up there, too, even though I couldn't stay awake through it. It was like the eternal flame. But, an awful lot of people (mostly women) rewatch it often and get the same, old charge.
This is how all great art should be ranked. Not by personal taste but by universality and message.

                MIke

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:31 PM

Who?

(just kidding)

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:27 PM

I've always thought the "........won't mean anything to anyone under......." argument very odd in the fields of film, music, etc.

They are in permanent forms, so can be come across by anyone of any age, in the shape of videos, screenings at 'historical' cinemas, on discs, etc.

I've heard of Beethoven, who was a bit before my time......thanks to discs etc.

Etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

It's like when journos say, once the last survivors of World War 1 pass, we won't know anything about WW1, simply because no-one who was there is alive. I always wondered why no-one's ever heard of Julius Caesar.





       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:27 PM

I tend to agree. It starts to bug me by about 2/3 of the way into the movie.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:22 PM

"Lara's Theme" is to Dr. Zhivago what snow is to Russia -- way too much of it in drifts and piles.....

(The theme bears no relationship to the book, but then the film bears no relationship to the book either.....)

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: mrdux
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:20 PM

Tunesmith --

Powell has been a favorite of mine since I first saw My Man Godfrey many years ago in a film class. My wife (under 50), who led a cinematically deprived life until we met a dozen years ago, had never seen a black-and-white film, let alone heard of William Powell. I got her hooked (wicked fellow that I am) on "The Thin Man" series ("Here, try this, Honey") and Bogart films and she "discovered" Hitchcock on her own. It was a treat to watch her watching The Magnificent Ambersons for the first time. I've been having a great time with her new film fascination, rewatching my favorites from the 30s and 40s and even seeing some that I managed to miss.

michael
(well past 50)

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:11 AM

However - There are times in movies when a repeated theme is overdone. "High Noon" comes to mind. Do not forsake Oh my darlin'.....over and over and over....

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:04 AM

Personally, I like the music in a movie. That's one of the reasons, I think, I liked Dr. Zhivago, and probably the reason I really like "Sometimes a Great Notion," and "The Sting."

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:08 AM

My goodness, Peter, how ungratious of you! ;-)

My dear fellow, the thing that makes Doctor Zhivago a "great film" is simply that it looks like a great film and sounds like a great film. It gives that superficial impression. This is the vital thing in marketing, you see. You don't have to be a duck, you just have to walk like a duck, talk like a duck, and look like a duck. Do this, and everyone will assume you are a duck.

Everyone, that is, except a few nitpicking cynics and ivory tower intellectuals whom I could name, but shan't...

*(the above post is tongue in cheek)

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:06 AM

Mrdux: I like your list. William Powell - who won't mean anything to anyone under 50 - was great to watch. I must admit that, the older I get, the less I enjoy "heavy" films, and the more I enjoy witty, feel-good movies.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:00 AM

Some of my favourites are missing;
Truly, Madly, Deeply, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, The Lion In Winter, A Man for All Seasons, Margarets Museum, Monty Python's Holy Grail, Breaker Morant , The Full Monty.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM

Actually, the theme of the movie was pretty important, of course it was based on a pretty important book.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 06:16 PM

"Doctor Zhivago" is really a ridiculously second rate film -- those fake sets and that endless theme song that appears whenever the plot drags (like in beach party movies). It's only claim to fame is that it has Julie Christie in it, who, I admit, is a goddess.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 06:12 PM

"Sometimes a Great Notion"

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 06:10 PM

The AFI site said people like critics, producers, generally people in the biz. 'bout 1500 of 'em?



    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 04:53 PM

Any list that claims to be the "greatest" or "best" is doomed to failure - simply because it's such a subjective topic in the first place. My best films couldn't possible be your best films. I wish that the AFI website would list the criteria that was used to determine the list in the first place. Or did they just ask a bunch of folks what their favorites were? If so - who got to pick these movies?

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: mrdux
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 04:31 PM

Q inquired about "a Japanese film about a trucker (played John Wayne style) helping a woman to improve the noodles in her noodle shop."

Tampopo

As to the list, well, it's a list. I'd say it includes most of the "great" US films, and it includes its share of crap and its share of ok films that will barely be remembered twenty years from now. It seems to have accomplished what WesleyS intended in his intial post: to start a discussion.

A few of my own additions to the list that haven't been mentioned yet:

Red River
His Girl Friday
My Man Godfrey
The Cavalry Trilogy (John Ford)
Touch of Evil
The Thin Man
The Big Sleep

. . . just off the top of my head.

I am intrigued by autolycus' suggestion:

"Perhaps we can add our own top 100s - now that would be interesting."

michael

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:10 PM

kolya , plus 2 other favorites are the Czech dramatizations of the Good Soldier Schweik and Beg to Report Sir (Part 2)..
both made in the 50s with an incomparable cast of Czech actors and remarkably close to the original novel set and written by Hasek during WWI.

2 other russian films that I absolutely loved were..
My Friend Ivan Lapshin, and Days of Eclipse.


and a Russian Mongolian collaboration 'Close to Eden' or Urga.
when films take you places you dont expect,
and when you cant predict what is going to happen (because of some formula)

those are quality films.

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 06:35 PM

Jimmy Cagney should be in there - The Roaring Twenties perhaps

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 05:09 PM

Offshore and offshoring- this may still be North American. Whenever a product can be made or a procedure done more cheaply in China or India or Mexico or wherever, the manufacture or job is moved there. This is called 'offshoring.' It originated in the business community.

In current Amerispeak, 'Offshore' seems to be replacing 'abroad' and similar words- 'it was made offshore.'

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 04:18 PM

Jack, Jim and Ces decided to do a dramatisation of scened from Don Quixote.

Jack said," I'll play the title role, Jim will be Sancho Panza, and

































Ces 'e'll be de mille."






      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 03:58 PM

Zorba the Greek


Some years ago, there was a huge woolen mill in Germany that went under due to foreign competition. They sold it to a man who bred, trained and boarded a very special breed of hunting dog.
Within 6 months his new business grew so big and so succesful that it made the news.
The headline read:














THE MILLS ARE ALIVE WITH THE HOUNDS OF MUNICH

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:02 PM

Kendall - agreed- Breaker Morant is a superb film. Whoever mentioned Zulu (several did...) -- now that is a good film. Loved 'Y tu mama, tambien....' but this list is about American films as has been stated so few of my favorites are on it. I also thought 'The Full Monty' was a pretty wonderful film, and no, it wasn't a comedy....

A Lion In Winter - wonderful; Mad Max ( Ithink that was the title); liked Pride and Prejudice although the BBC mini series blew the movie away and for absolutely TERRIFYING MOVIES .... how about 'Sexy Beasts' with Ben Kingsley and others......I still wake up in a cold sweat afraid of the Ben Kingsley character........

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

Describing non-American films as "off-shore" films - well, I wouldn't have been able to make that up. Makes it sound like all films that aren't American are made in the sea.


And the US film industry, with its impossibly rich budgets, 'stars', directors and pretty thorough grip on the world's cinemas and TVs needs interest in it 'drummed up' ? I mean, if that IS the reason, then we must be close to the heart of human insecurity. Here, security is, in two words, im possible.


It's non-American films that need interest in them drummed up. Alas.


Just to stop, back on track,

Battleship Potemkin (Russian 1925) - knocks most modern films into a cocked hat on the technical front simply because it demonstrates so many possibilities for using, really using, film-making techniques themselves. Rather than reliance on script and actors. And not the same thing as special effects.

The Children of Paradise (France 1945) - the most beautiful film in the world?

The Lady with the Little Dog (Russia 1960) - the most tender love story in the world?

Little Murders (US 1971/2) - the 'little murders' being those we all commit daily without realising it.

Cyrano de Bergerac (Fr.1990) - a great film for encouraging the feeling that it might be great to be alive.

Russian Ark (Rus. 2002) - had me on the edge of my seat , waiting for an error, since I sat down to it knowing that the whole 90 minute thing was shot in one take. Just one. Amazing. Jaw-dropping.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:33 PM

I once took two girls I knew to see "Dersu Usala". It's a marvelous film. They, however, had grown up on shows like "Three's Company" and "Mork and Mindy" and they simply didn't get it. They were completely uninterested in a story about a little old oriental guy, had no interest in nature, no interest in character development, no interest in culture....sheesh! To them the movie was a total waste of time, and about halfway through it they both started giggling and laughing, because they thought it was a ridiculously pointless movie, completely devoid of entertainment value. It had no love story, no cool-looking guys, no hot looking babes, no fast cars, no parties....

I was not pleased with them. I had to sit through the whole second half of a great movie and listen to them laugh and complain about how stupid it was.

You really have to be careful who you go to see a movie with. ;-)