Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage

DMcG 04 Aug 07 - 03:44 PM
Cluin 04 Aug 07 - 03:51 PM
John Hardly 04 Aug 07 - 03:52 PM
Peace 04 Aug 07 - 04:00 PM
Little Hawk 04 Aug 07 - 04:06 PM
Liz the Squeak 04 Aug 07 - 05:38 PM
Uncle_DaveO 05 Aug 07 - 10:27 AM
Cluin 05 Aug 07 - 02:10 PM
autolycus 05 Aug 07 - 03:26 PM
pdq 05 Aug 07 - 04:39 PM
Uncle_DaveO 05 Aug 07 - 04:47 PM
John on the Sunset Coast 06 Aug 07 - 12:58 AM
Grab 06 Aug 07 - 07:38 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Aug 07 - 08:42 AM
manitas_at_work 06 Aug 07 - 11:42 AM
greg stephens 06 Aug 07 - 12:02 PM
Liz the Squeak 06 Aug 07 - 05:14 PM
Anne Lister 06 Aug 07 - 05:22 PM
Uncle_DaveO 06 Aug 07 - 05:32 PM
Liz the Squeak 06 Aug 07 - 05:41 PM
Cluin 06 Aug 07 - 10:20 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Aug 07 - 01:06 AM
Liz the Squeak 07 Aug 07 - 01:08 AM
Grab 07 Aug 07 - 07:18 AM
SharonA 07 Aug 07 - 03:16 PM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 07 - 05:02 AM
Liz the Squeak 08 Aug 07 - 05:53 AM
Azizi 08 Aug 07 - 07:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Aug 07 - 06:28 PM
Liz the Squeak 08 Aug 07 - 07:03 PM
GUEST,meself 08 Aug 07 - 10:15 PM
Liz the Squeak 09 Aug 07 - 01:51 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Aug 07 - 05:03 AM
Uncle_DaveO 09 Aug 07 - 09:22 AM
Stringsinger 09 Aug 07 - 11:55 AM
GUEST,meself 09 Aug 07 - 12:11 PM
Emma B 09 Aug 07 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,meself 09 Aug 07 - 12:44 PM
Emma B 09 Aug 07 - 01:29 PM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:







Subject: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: DMcG
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:44 PM

To quote from this weeks edition of "The Stage", a UK paper for theatrical types:

"Theatre Royal, Stratford East is to stage a contraversial revival of Jean Genet's The Blacks - in which a black actress will be 'whited up' to play the Queen - to coincide with the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery and a major conference discussing diversity within the arts."

We've discussed 'blacking up' at some length in other threads, so I'd rather we didn't go down that road again (though threads go where they will, of course). I'm more interested in whether people's attitudes are consistant in the cases of 'whiting up' and 'blacking up', and if not, do they feel the inconsistancy matters?

-- thinking about which is, I guess, part of the reason they are performing the play in the first place ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:51 PM

It's acting. If an actor can play a non-human like an animal or angel or devil or alien or god or ghost or a teapot or candlestick , why shouldn't they be able to play a human with different skin pigmentation?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 03:52 PM

Mimes do it all the time.

Look where it got them. Is there anything on earth more reviled than a mime?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Peace
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 04:00 PM

Slavery was 'abolished' by an act of the British Parliament in 1807, but slaves were not 'freed' until another act in the 1830s.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 04:06 PM

Lawyers are more reviled than mimes. But only slightly more.

I should think that the politically correct way to go would be zebra stripes, so the person is half-white and half-black. Or would that offend Asians?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Aug 07 - 05:38 PM

At one point it was perfectly legal for a white actor to 'black up' to play Othello, but illegal for a black actor to 'white up' to play Hamlet. That's why there was a fashion for 'all black cast' Shakespear plays.

I'd rather see a good actress wearing make-up for character than a bad actress given the part simply because she was the right shade of brown.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 10:27 AM

To me, it's all a question of the impact actually achieved by the particular play/performance.

If an actor can carry a role off in the context of a certain production of a certain play despite (or because of) blacking/whiting up, more power to him.   

If Bert Lahr was able to be believable as the Cowardly Lion in the magical context of The Wizard of Oz movie, that speaks not only for his expertise as an comic actor but for the costumers, makeup people, cinematographers, director, and all concerned--not to mention the original author. It also speaks for the readiness of the audience to accept fantasy.

But in a play or movie meant to show the drama of fear by realistic people threatened by a lion in the jungle, poor Bert is not going to get there, despite his talents. You'll have to have an animal actor.

A whited-up actor playing Hamlet is perfectly legitimate if he can, in the context of that production, make the audience feel the drama, feel the personality of Hamlet, and for that time forget the actor's race. Likewise, a blacked-up white actor-singer playing Porgy is permissible if he can carry it off.

The whited-up black actor might possibly achieve the necessary illusion in a cloak-and-tights production of Hamlet but fail in a modern-dress production (or vice versa). In the end, if he fails, he fails.

There are only two rules:
1. The theater is the realm of illusion.
2. Nothing succeeds like success.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 02:10 PM

There's no reason an actor should have to "white up" on stage to play Hamlet. All that matters is the perfomance, the ability to get across the situation and feeling of the character. You are watching a play, not historical recreation. Right on about the 2 rules, Dave.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: autolycus
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 03:26 PM

Might offend zebras.





   Dick gregory once said in his act,"Hey wouldn't be a gas if I was all corked up and you were being tolerant for nothing."






         Ivor


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: pdq
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:39 PM

Another quote from Dick Gregory (as close as I can remember):

    "When I see all you White people down at the beach with a bottle of tanning lotion, I say 'I'll meet you halfway. I'm going to take along a bottle of bleech.'"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 04:47 PM

Cluin, I agree there's no need to white/black up--IF! That is, IF the actor can carry it off in the context of the play and the production thereof.

But it is only realistic to realize that audiences are part of the equation too, and they bring baggage with them. With all the best will in the world, they have experiential expectations. And I'm not talking about racism here, I don't think. But it seems to me that a "barefaced" black Hamlet in an otherwise white production is in all likelihood going to be starting in a hole in trying to create the illusion. His blackitude, to coin a term, is going to keep sticking a visual contrast in the audience's eye. A great actor just MIGHT make them forget it, but it's an uphill battle.

Seems to me, if you have a powerful, famous black actor whom you'd like to see dealing with the emotional problems of Hamlet, you should also cast the King, the Queen, and the ghost with black actors. If you want Ophelia with a black actress, you should also cast Polonius and Laertes with black actors. If you want to give equal employment opportunity to black actors in Romeo and Juliet and don't want to black up or white up, make either the Montagues or the Capulets a black clan, and the other clan can be white, or oriental if you like.
As a side benefit, it will help the audience keep the sides straight, which can be a problem with big Shakespearean casts.   

To hark back to my previous entry, an unmitigated white Porgy can deal a blow to the story's verisimilitude.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 12:58 AM

Ivor, Dick Gregory may have made that quote, but there was more truth than joke there. Black performers in minstrel shows corked up just as the white performers did. Bert Williams, the great, black vaudevillian corked up. Ben Vereen, about 35 years ago, had a poignant sketch in his show; it was about the indignity of black performers having to perform in blackface
John.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Grab
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 07:38 AM

If seeing a black actress in whiteface is the only attraction for this play, I can think of better things to spend my time on. Same as "The Wiz" - might be all very well-intentioned, but if it actually isn't any damn good as a play/film/whatever, the colour of the actors involved isn't going to magically make it worth seeing.

Graham.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 08:42 AM

"The Wiz"

Hey - that great song that changed my life

"You can't win, you can't break even, you can't even get out of the game!"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 11:42 AM

I suspect that this is being done as a theatrical device. The house company has a lot of black actors and reflects the demographic of the locale somewhat so it may possibly be that they didn't have enough white actresses but they may also be making a point about what's under the skin.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: greg stephens
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 12:02 PM

Liz the Squeak: your comment about it once being illeagl for a black actor to "White up" and play Hamlet? When, and in what couintry, did this happen? And why, for that matter. I've never heard of this, sounds interesting.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:14 PM

It was something I remembered from a long long time ago, when I 'trod the boards meself, luvvie'...

It was one of those ridiculous rules quoted to illustrate the absurdity of racial discrimination and segregation. A white actor could 'black up' and act with other white actors, but a black actor could not act with white actors. If a black actor was used for a leading role, the whole cast had to be black. Hence, it would have been illegal for a black actor to 'white up' and play the role of Hamlet - or any other role.

"The first American film to feature black characters was Uncle Tom in 1903, a silent movie which was played by a white actor. Black actors were not allowed to appear on screen and the characters conformed to racist stereotypes. Even when black actors were first allowed to appear on television or in shows they had to wear blackface to suit white audiences or were not allowed to perform." - from 'Black Britain'.

Don't forget, it's less than 400 years ago that women were allowed on stage!

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Anne Lister
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:22 PM

For what it's worth, the company of actors at Shakespeare's Globe Theatre in London regularly mix and match black and white actors .. we've seen a black Duke Orsino in Twelfth Night, a black King of Navarre in Love's Labour's Lost (as well as a black female actor playing the male Moth in the same production). This is just a few memories of the productions I've seen, not the whole story by any means. It doesn't alter anything much, so I can easily envisage a black Hamlet in an otherwise all white cast.
"Whiting" up to play the queen seems to be making quite a point, though. A tad heavy-handed, as far as it appears to me on a superficial level, but I hope they have more nuanced reasons for doing this.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:32 PM

LTS:

"Not allowed" and "illegal" are different things, possibly arising from different authorities. It could well be (unless you know otherwise, which you didn't quite say) that the rule was one from a particular theater owner, a theater-owners' organization, from the actors' union, from church or other community organization pressure, or even just a general sense of what was a sort of theatrical common law. All of which could add up to "not allowed", while not being "illegal".

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 05:41 PM

Illegal in that the whited-up black actor could have been arrested and the theatre closed, same as when a woman appeared on stage...

The bit in quotation marks was not mine, nor did I correct it in any way... it's lifted straight from a 'Black Britain' story page.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 10:20 PM

Several years ago, Peter Brook's excellent production of The Mahabharata was shown on TV, using an intentionally international cast. It wasn't a problem seeing members of the same family portrayed by actors from different nations and nationalities from around the globe. I pity anyone who has problems with that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 01:06 AM

I just posted an erudite and meaningful message here, and it vanished into the ether... Can't be arsed to repeat it all as it's now 6.00am and I need to leave for work, but it was basically about how sad it is that the discussion is not about the content of the play or its underlying message, but that all people can focus on is the fact that 'an actress' is 'whiting up' to play the Queen. It isn't just one actor, there are several and by clicking here you get a better overview of the play.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 01:08 AM

Ah that was it... given that the play is being held in Stratford, east London, I can forsee a potential source of trouble over this 'whiting up' lark... there is, to my lasting regret, a very high BNP following in this area, and as we know, tollerance and understanding are words they are not exactly familiar with.

But my original posting was a lot more erudite than that.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Grab
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 07:18 AM

It's pretty rare now that a play by the RSC or other top companies *doesn't* have black actors/actresses in it. If they're good enough, they get the job. So if they think this'll shock theatre-goers, they're about 30 years too late.

Graham.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 03:16 PM

Cluin says: "It wasn't a problem seeing members of the same family portrayed by actors from different nations and nationalities from around the globe. I pity anyone who has problems with that."

I have problems (as far as suspension of disbelief goes) with TV sitcoms and dramas that portray a family of characters and yet cast people with obviously different facial features or body types as members of that family, even though they are of the same race!   So, yes, I have big problems with what Cluin describes. I remember seeing a TV broadcast of the Ring cycle wherein Siegmund was portrayed by a Caucasian and Sieglinde by a woman of African descent, and it was a great distraction to me as I found myself wondering what machinations of sperm and egg resulted in their being fraternal twins.

Fine, go ahead, pity me. But as Uncle Dave O said above, the audience brings its own expectations based on the experiences of each audience member, and that includes their life experiences as well as the times they've seen a play before. If people aren't used to interacting with multiracial families, having one portrayed on stage is going to distract them from the story. Even if they are acquainted with multiracial families, the stage portrayal of a genetically impossible situation (two Caucasian parents with an African-American child) will be distracting at the very least, if not farcical. To me, watching a performance with a black Hamlet Jr., son of a white King Hamlet Sr. and Queen Gertrude, descendants of a royal bloodline in Denmark, would turn Shakespeare into theater of the absurd.

As for whiteface and blackface, I think it's repugnant IF the aim is to ridicule another race (as was done in the old blackface minstrel shows). Same goes for painting slanted eyes on Caucasians to make them appear oriental. But if it's done to give a serious portrayal of a theatrical character and make it more believable to the audience, then I think it falls into the category of make-up rather than making fun or making a political point. With respect to the production in question (Jean Genet's 'The Blacks'), it would appear that the producers are more interested in making a political point than in putting on a production.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:02 AM

I black up for my role as Hector in the Abram/Lancaster Pace Egg Play. I must admit that at times I have wondered about whether it is insensitive or not and considered using blue or purple or some such. Then the 'sod it' instinct kicks in and makes me wonder why some people, of all colours, chose to be offended by it and others are perfectly happy. I think, at times, some folks just look for something to be offended at.

Anyway, that was beside the point. In previous discussions on black/white face make-up I have come across a Pace Egg play on, I think, St Kitts, where the predominantly black cast do white up. There is certainly many precidents for this. What makes the one in question more unusual is that there is no real reason for the lead actress to white up! Maybe I am being somewhat cynical but don't you think the publicity value of this may be a factor?

Oh - for another example of someone whiting up when there is no need I leave you with two words -

Michael Jackson.

Cheers

:Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:53 AM

Ah yes.. Michael Jackson. I remember him when he was a small black boy.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 07:37 AM

As for whiteface and blackface, I think it's repugnant IF the aim is to ridicule another race (as was done in the old blackface minstrel shows). -SharonA

If you do something in and as part of your own culture - innocent of any intentional mockery to any other culture. Should not that innocent intent (or lack of intent to offend) first be taken by somone in a different culture at face value? -The Shambles RE: Padstow Darkie Days thread.cfm?threadid=78748#1447880


-snip-

While intent is important, by no means do I think that intent should be the entire criteria for an individual's or a society's determination of what is or is not offensive to an individual or to groups of people.

robomatic gives this example in one Mudcat discussion on Padstow's Darkie Days:

It is possible to see Darkie Days as a homegrown folk tradition that can be tolerated by minorities who have an understanding of its origins and intents. But it may also be perceived as an inherently flawed activity in the light of current population.

"In Anchorage about fifteen years ago, one of the better and more enlightened high schools had a series of student rendered paintings on the sides of its hallways. One of the paintings depicted a figure hanging by a noose from a tree, below which the word "Prejudice" was printed. The figure was faceless and, as I recall, purple. The mother of one of the students, who was black, maintained it was a racist illustration and wanted it removed. It became a "letters to the editor" issue and went on for a few weeks. Most people thought it was a good "anti-racist" message and tastefully displayed. This one woman was adamant. In the end, the image was removed."

thread.cfm?threadid=78748#1432283
-snip-

It's likely that that artist mentioned in that quote had no intent to cause offense. Some folks may disagree about whether this example went over the non-offense/offense line. Imo, it did.

In that previously cited Padstow thread, I wrote that I cringe when I see photos of people blackening up {regardless of whether those people doing so are White or non-White}. I do so because to me blackening up is so closely associated with the American blackface minstrel tradition. The blackface minstrel tradition was a highly influential artistic tradition- influential in the sense of its impact on theater, and music, and comedy in the USA, Europe, and elsewhere. Yet, imo, that tradition is rooted in the creation of distorted & highly insulting visual, musical, and theatrical caricatures of Black people.

Although I still cringe when I see photos of "corked up characters" such as "Hector in the Abram/Lancaster Pace Egg Play", it's when blackface traditions are combined with afro wigs & 19th century {or 19th centuryish} minstrel songs, that my visceral cringing reaction to blackface traditions become even more pronounced. I think that afro-wigs, minstrel songs, and corking up should never be combined, regardless of who is doing it or when and for whatever reason it is done. The least of all reason for my position about this is whether or not I cringe or other people of color cringe at these depictions. I believe it's far more complicated than that.

In the aforementioned discussion of Padstow Darkie Days, I was interested in learning about the origins of pre 19th century European "blackening up" traditions. As a result of that discussion and my online and offline reading & consideration of these European customs, I continue to believe that the Turkish character-and other elements of these traditions-hark back to the darker skin Moors. And, as a result of my online reading noted in this comment to that Padstow Darkie Down thread, I believe that the custom of blackening up is very much related to the cultural traditions which associated kissing a chimney sweep and/or being the first person to see a sooty faced chimney in the first of the year as being good luck. {See my post about the beliefs about of good luck that are associated with the chimney sweep: thread.cfm?threadid=78748#1427096

**

I have written elsewhere, if not in that Padstow thread, that since at least the 1970s, mime groups who perform dance-like movements to gospel music have very much become a fixture in many Black American churches. Performers in these mime groups put on white facial paint and wear white gloves. I'm not fond of this tradition, in part because it gives cover to those who would argue that "corkening up" is alright because "Black people routinely wear white paint" in certain artistic performances. Another reason why I personally don't like this "whitening up" custom is that, for me, it detracts rather than adds anything of value to the mime-like dance performance. In other words, I think that Black church/community mime groups wear white paint because they are following the miming tradtion. Yet, it doesn't appear to me that they know the history and core reasons for why Marcel Marceau and other famous mimes used white facial paint & wore white gloves in their acts {i.e- to call attention to the pronounced facial expressions and hand movements they made}. For the most part, it's been my experience that Black mime groups pay little attention to their facial expressions-nor do they expect their audiences to pay attention to the performers' facial expressions. Does seeing Black mime groups make me cringe? No. Do I like the "whitening up" aspect of that performance? No. Do I believe that it's meant to offense to White people? No. Do I believe that it actually does cause offense to White people? No.

**

In summation, thanks to Dave Polshaw, and other Mudcatters, in spite of my visceral reaction to European blackening up traditions, I have learned something about and become more accepting of blackening up as it is associated with Pace Egg and some other European traditions. I think that particularly in the context of the Pace Egg and other traditional plays-sans the afro wig & degrading minstrel songs, blackening up is acceptable and not offensive.

I also think that within the context as I understand it of the play which is the subject of this thread, the purpose and the act of "whitening up" is acceptable and not offensive.

Needless to say, these are my opinions and are not meant to be construed as the opinions of other Black people or any other person or group of people regardless of his, her, or their race or ethnicity.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 06:28 PM

Good post yet again, Azizi, but I am not sure if you address what I see to be the issue here. The lead actress in this play is 'Whiting up' for, to my mind, no reason. This black actress is applying white make up. There is no reason for her to do it. It is a new play, there is no traditional reason for her to do so. OK - So she is portraying the Queen of England, who happens to be white, but surely a play to coincide with the 200th anniversary of the abolition of slavery and a major conference discussing diversity within the arts. would be better served by showing that a black person CAN become a major power without resorting to disguise. Or am I missing something?

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 07:03 PM

It's not that new a play, it was written 50 years ago - when colour was a much bigger issue than it is today - although the intolerance and bigotted opinions are still evident today.

LTS


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 10:15 PM

" ... would be better served by showing that a black person CAN become a major power without resorting to disguise. Or am I missing something?"

Well - it sounds like you've come up with your own 'agenda' for the production. While being unfamiliar with the actual play in question, I think it is conceivable that a play that has to do with the relationship of the Crown to the issue of slavery might well require the Queen to be white to serve the vision of the playwright, if not just to make sense - unlike, I would suggest, the case of a play like Hamlet, which makes no reference to racial issues. But like Othello, which would surely lose something if a number of the actors playing leading roles were (obviously) Black - or if the actor playing Othello were obviously white (i.e., if his skin were not darkened with make-up).

By the way, Queen Elizabeth I apparently plastered herself in white make-up, so there is a precedent.

Another by the way: I recently saw a high school production of Macbeth, with a mixed-race cast - Duncan, the ill-fated king, was played by a black girl, with a tinfoil sword - and no 'white-face'. It's theatre, people! (Even in central Georgia ... It was interesting hearing Shakespeare with a southern drawl).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:51 AM

Georgian Shakespeare ... might work! Some of the funny bits and rhyming couplets are only funny or rhyme if you say them with a Midlands/Birmingham inflection (as in the Elephants graveyard joke - Posh elephant:~ Did you come here to die? Brummie elephant:~ No, I came here yester die.).

I like the idea of MacBeth asking 'Es thes a dayger Ah see bufour mey, ets hayndul towourud ma haynd?'

(I can't do a Georgia accent, sorry...)

The whole play has been updated for this production, using hip-hop artists and MOBO*. I can see the political irony of having a black actress 'white up' to play the archetypal WASP* and think it could be very enlightening - but I can also see that an awful lot of people in this area could see it as a) a savage dig at the Queen, bordering on treason and b) another excuse to blame 'blacks for coming over here and taking all our jobs' (which is shite and not my opinion before anyone jumps on me, but unfortunately IS the opinion of a lot of my neighbourhood).

It's a play I'd love to see, but probably won't because much as I like MOBO, hip-hop and garage are just so not my bag.

LTS

* For those not sure:~ MOBO = Music Of Black Origin and WASP = White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 05:03 AM

You could well be right, meself. Maybe I am more cynical and wonder whether it is a ruse to get people discussing the play. Works doesn't it:-)

Cheers

Dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 09:22 AM

For what it's worth, I've always had the feeling that the whiting-up of mimes not only has no racial reference, but it's to make the performer as generic as possible. Witness that the white is usually done as a mask, ending at the jawline or so.

Also I'll observe (for whatever it's worth, which may be nothing) that the "white" populace is NOT really white. They (we) are sort of pinkish to tannish. And the "black" population is seldom what one could call black. Only very occasionally have I ever seen an individual whose skin color was what I'd call black. VERY dark, yes, sometimes a blue-black, but a real close-to-black complexion is rare, in my experience.

I think the observation above about Elizabeth's habitual "whiting-up" is valuable. If the actress does that sort of "whiting-up", rather than "pinking up", so to speak, an argument could be made for it. Even so, in what somebody says is a BNP area, and with what seems to be political intentions, I look askance.

Dave Oesterreich


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 11:55 AM

Blacking up for minstrel shows was racism. There was an ambivalent side, too, in that many who did this admired the talent of black entertainers and attempted (unsuccessfully in my view) to emulate them. At the same time, blacks were denegrated. They were hurt by this practice and that's the whole point.

Genet made this political point in his play.



Frank Hamilton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:11 PM

"wonder whether it is a ruse to get people discussing the play" -

Could be. Or it could be to make some kind of a point, to put a new slant on the play for artistic/intellectual/political reasons. I find it curious that something like this WOULD get people talking. At any rate, I don't see any reason the actress shouldn't be whited-up - or even 'pinked-up' - for the role (again, without knowing the play), if that's what the director wants - even if they are just trying to "create a buzz". Don't understand why anyone would 'look askance' at it ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:32 PM

A quote from the play seems appropiate for the forum -

"By stretching language we'll distort it sufficiently to wrap ourselves in it and hide".

JEAN GENET, The Blacks

more information on the production here


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 12:44 PM

The article Emma B links is a little bit ambiguous, but it could be taken to indicate that the play was written to be performed by black actors in the white roles, which puts a different perspective on the whole thing. There is a photo of James Earl Jones in a sixties' production holding a white-face mask ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Twist on 'blacking-up' on stage
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 01:29 PM

The Classical Theater of Harlem, certainly put on a performance using " elaborate white cardboard masks" in 2003 as well as the 1961 long running off-Broadway production with James Earl Jones.
I think the latter production however was the first using an all black cast: the original production Les Negres: Clownerie (The Blacks: A Clown Show) was first produced at the Theatre de Lutece, Paris, 1959.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 20 December 8:31 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.