BS: Why are they leaving the UK?

Subject: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: pattyClink
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 09:47 AM

Apparently You-Kays are emigrating to greener pastures.

You Kays out there -- what's the deal? Who's leaving, and have you considered it, and why?

BBC story

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 10:03 AM

The only reason I went was because staying would mean not being with Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 10:04 AM

Cost of living? Taxes? Embarassing government?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 10:16 AM

I think Peter Kay is staying. Gordon Kay had some brain damage in an accident but he doesn't think he is French anymore...

Don't know any more Kays. Apart from the catalogue. I think their call centre has been re-located to Mumbai.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Bee
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 10:27 AM

Judging by the BBC house decorating, buying, selling shows I see, it's the horrific price of housing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The PA
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 11:41 AM

A head teachers murderer gets more consideration than his widow and children.
Regular stabbing and shootings involving teenagers.
People getting shot at as they drive along the M40
Cost of living
Tax
Pensions that you work all your life for suddenly disappear.
Probably having to work well after I am 65 just in order to survive.
The elderly who fought and survived two world wars being chucked out of nursing/residential homes when they are too much trouble to look after.

............ I'll just get my suitcase.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 12:05 PM

I would echo that last post by The PA. My wife and I have looked into selling up and buggering off to Spain, as like most people who are on the property ladder, the amount of equity in our house is f**cking ridiculous! BUT, if we do sell up it would leave our kids in the lurch as they would have no hope of ever affording their own house if we did a runner.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM

The UK is currently a selfish, greedy, infantile, ageist society sliding at an accelerating rate into anarchy.

Oh yes, and there are far too many people fighting for inadequate services which are continually being cut and privatised.

We elect the Government, and pay our taxes, and the Government's only priority is facilitating the activities of Big Business.

In 10 to 20 years time those parts of the country which aren't underwater will be covered with millions of shoddy but prohibitively expensive houses and 'wind farms' (which will look like they're doing something to counter global warming but, in fact, will be for the sole purpose of making profits for wind farm manufacturers).

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 02:26 PM

Whit a bunch o whingin auld beggers.

Ye get whit ye luk fur in these past three weeks we went of with the wheelchair. Everyone we met was helpful and pleasent to us. All the young people i know around us are always willing to help hold open a door or haul the chair up some of the awkward slopes where we live. We never get to much sun but we also never get to much rain I wouldn't swap it for anywhere else, mostly what you show people they show you (respect).

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 03:35 PM

A lot come back - they go for a lot of reasons and the discover crime is everywhere not just the UK , taxes are higher, services are inadequate and so many go and form ex pat communities and do not intergrate or learn the language. Life is not a bunch of roses anywhere in this global market place-it just seems so where the sun shine.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The PA
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 04:11 AM

I know this is not strictly to do with this thread, but after the shooting of an 11 year old in Liverpool last night, I asked my son as a 16 year old what he would do to try and stop all this terrible violence which seems to have taken over our streets - his answer - army training for anyone not at college, in full time education, working, or in an apprenticeship. He said its the only thing that will work. These teenagers are not worried by the police, have no time or respect for teachers or parents and see any form of 'punishment' as something for the friends to admire.

He's no goodie-goodie himself, and has got into his fair share of scrapes but luckily he and his mates knew when to stop. Perhaps its time for those in authority to start seeking a solution elsewhere - try the teenagers ?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 04:20 AM

I spend my time between Spain and the UK.

Some things are much better in Spain.

Somethings are much worse.

I guess it its the same in most countries.

One of the things that is much worse is how the ex-pats - the non- integrated ones - moan about how they left the UK becausae of all the immigrants.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: stallion
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 04:47 AM

mmmmmmmmm ok, the housing thing, private landlords exorbitant rents propped up by the rent support scheme (why doesn't the gov. poor people 80% of their mortgage repayments like they do to the private landlords?), fuel competition for low cost housing and drive up prices, crime etc. most of the recreation spaces are "brown field" developments. ( In York we have lost two playing fields and the only city centre swimming pool, as I type, is being reduced to rubble to make way for houses and hotel) When I was young, 13 or so, all the kids had a sheath knife hanging from their belt but would never dream of sticking it in anyone. Society in the UK has changed since I was a nipper but I am not sure it is for the worse and I still think it is as safe as many of the western "civilised" societies. So why are the K's leaving? Why did the three billy goats gruff tangle with the troll? The grass looked greener but hey it could have been a mirage or taste so naff it was inedible. Is the educated K's or the illiterate K's ? Tax exiles?> Ask the Captain, I hear Ireland is good to Tax Exiles so much easier to slip in and out of unnoticed (the old six month residency thing) The US has naff wages and naff holidays and boy do you have to work for your money, not like the french eh, now when I was working in France we all knocked off for lunch at 12 30, the brits had to be back at 1pm and when we stopped for 3 o'clock tea break the french guys were just packing up their tables and chairs and starting back to work, we all worked til 7pm and we all got paid the same!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 04:51 AM

the standard response is national service - we have probably one of the best armies in the world-the last thing you need in an army is someone who is undisciplined and doesn't want to be part of that team-the Army really don't want these kids.What they need is stable homes and a clear sense of what is right and wrong and the consequences of doing wrong -that you will not be eligible for (dependant on severity of their crime) a passport, state benefits, state healthcare or social services-that if you ostracise yourself from socety -society will do the same to you-and that is a lesson everyone should be taught from their first day in school. And families or parents who understand this but do not have the ability to handle their children should be given help-they should have full time mentors in school who are not their for education but purely for pastoral care. And finally, rant over-get rid of the crap on television served up by the self indulgent self destructive drug addled cult of celebrity that has invaded all our lives and which preaches self interest and a quick buck because I frankly am sick of it. We vilify the kids on the street doing drugs and yet have Kate Moss awarded huge contracts from companies because of her cult status -i hope her nose collapses!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:32 AM

...Right on Linda, I agree with every word!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: GUEST,dáithí
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:39 AM

Apparently many of those included in the emigration figures are actually foreign nationals returning home, or travelling on after a year or more here.
Also students who spend more than a year abroad are also included.

So the picture is - as usual - more complicated than at first glance. In any event, with a population of around 60 million, is the figure for "transfers" (immigration seems to be around 500k per year) particularly high compared with other countries, I wonder?
D

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:44 AM

Is it any wonder that the Celtic nations are distancing themselves from England? The Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly elections were held this year, which resulted in victory for the Scottish Nationalists and a Sennedd composed of a Plaid Cymru/Labour coalition. In Wales, Labour do not rule any more, thanks to decent, sensible, progressive Plaid Cymru policies. Britain is waking up and shaking off the legacy of the liar and murderer, Big Brother Blair - or, to quote the left-wing songwriter Robb Johnson: "I Still do hate the Tories. Well, to be honest, I didn't think New Labour would be Jerusalem overnight, but I didn't expect it to be quite so awful... just more Thatcherism, only without the handbag."

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The PA
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:17 AM

Yep I agree with you Linda, I forgot to say that my son said that they should not let them join the services, the last thing a thug needs is to be allowed to use a gun to take pot shots at someone in another country.
They should just have the training and not be let out until they are 21.
Have to say I agree with him.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 09:08 AM

People have always emigrated from the UK - that's why places like the USA and Australia are English-speaking.   People leave for all kinds of reasons, basically baecause they think they might have a better life somewhere else, which is the same reason other people come to live here, sometimes from the same countries the emigrants are bound for (eg Spain).

This is a "silly season" story, basically.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 09:12 AM

National service is no longer an option. In these times of high tech soldiering, the army can't be expected to supply a role for uneducated, undisciplined and indolent teenagers, just to get them out from under our feet.

It should be remembered too that these kids are the minority of young people who, while they are a bloody nuisance socially, are also to some extent victims of a laisser faire culture developed during the 1960s by a bunch of trendy twerps with sociology degrees and delusions of infallibility.

Those we are now finding so difficult to deal with, are the grandchildren of the Dr. Spock generation, who were brought up in the belief that it would blight their little psyches if anyone said NO to them.

In the main, undisciplined parents raise undisciplined kids, and it doesn't get better over three generations, it gets worse.

The vast majority of youngsters are actively engaged in getting themselves the best education they can, as well as supporting local organisations, and charities.

For the minority, it is probably too late to effect much improvement in their lives, or their impact on the neighbours.

Most of the work of rearing a disciplined adult is done before the age of two. One thing which is guaranteed to bring smoke from my ears, is the adult,watching a toddler behaving badly, who says "Awww! Isn't that cute?"

NO IT ISN'T! And if we let the child think it is, we are setting him up for trouble later on.

We don't approve of smacking any more (I don't mean beating, just a slap on bottom or hand), and we are the only animal on this planet that doesn't. Why? Well I haven't a clue.

What I do know is this. With the use of a very occasional slap, my two kids knew all the house rules by the time they were two years old, and neither needed a slap beyond that age. Of course they broke rules, and misbehaved, but they knew that no meant NO,,and loss of privileges would follow.

Do I feel guilty about the few times I smacked them? Emphatically not! I never had to worry about their behaviour, and they both have very good careers, and I feel that I helped to put them on that path.

Next time you see a bunch of hoodies looking menacing on a street corner, stop and think, that the person responsible may be sitting at home watching telly, and not caring enough to have tried.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 09:56 AM

If you're looking for a previous period to blame for things going wrong on the streets, a better candidate than 60s "progressivism", I suggest would be the Thatcherite ethos of laissez faire and evil take the hindmost which devastated whole communities and threw millions of people out of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 10:00 AM

Because it's tiny and people get the wanderlust when they've seen the breadth of the colonies? Until they find out how it's going to be, to lose healthcare.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The Walrus
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 10:42 AM

-CAUTION- THREAD DRIFT

Re: Conscription.

The idea of military National Service is inviting, but, as has been stated in the past, the Forces DON'T WANT CONSCRIPTS, add to this, as has been mentioned, who would want to see some of the less desirable elements able to use firearms properly.

May I suggest a compromise might be a paramilitary type 'Civil Defence' force, this could have a 'regular' element as well as a 'conscript' force (as did the Armed forces in the 1950s), thus giving a degree of stability and structure, the training could be used to ensure that, say, everyone within an age bracket was trained in First Aid (or whatever), travel, postings, R&R 'in theatre' could be used to help regulate behavior.

The force thus formed could be employed in disaster relief (perhaps units seconded to International organisations* as a 'rapid reaction force) or in humanitarian type work (water systems in the third world etc).

We now return you to your normal service

* UN, ICRC etc

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: skipy
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 11:19 AM

Use them for minefield clearance, linked arm in arm!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The PA
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 11:56 AM

The Walrus - I think this was the sort of thing my son (and his mates) had in mind. I agree they are certainly not the kind of yobs who would be at all suitable for our Services. Unless we follow Skipy's idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The PA
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 12:01 PM

Just on the news, another shooting in Letchworth this lunchtime - what in gods name is going on in this country???

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 12:15 PM

Still a long way to go before there are as many as in the USA, where anyone can wave a gun around in order to 'defend themselves'.

The media would like everyone to believe there's a gun-totin' psycho-hoodie waiting round every corner, ready to blow away the first person he sees. It sells papers, but it's bollocks. There are a small number of people of a particular kind, who are settling scores, marking territories and scaring the shit out of those they perceive as their 'enemies' - e.g. the M40 shooting, which turned out to be some sort of Hells-Angel-Score-Settling, and the drug/gang-related 'executions' which we hear about in, e.g., Manchester.

The perception that the UK is full of homicidal gun-owners is false, and is simply a media-tool for selling copy. The vast majority of the UK population will never see a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 01:54 PM

Well I'm not leaving, I still quite like it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 02:38 PM

I WOULD GO IF I HAD T








I would go if i had the chance but been ill noone will have me except this country.




Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 03:14 PM

I've been ill too Scooby, and I can think of far worse places to be ill in. QMC at Nottingham were quick and thorough in diagnosing my illness and carrying out my op. Can't fault 'em.

Oh, and many of the staff were non-British too, God bless 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 05:42 PM

"The perception that the UK is full of homicidal gun-owners is false,...: Backwoodsman

Believe it or not, Backwoodsman, that perception of the US is false also.

It strikes me that jingoistic USers will note that, according to the article, America is not being beset by pounding-on-the-door wannabe UK immigrants. *g*

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: skipy
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:07 PM

The perception that the UK is full of homicidal gun-owners is false,...: Backwoodsman

Correct, it appears from an article today, that they RENT them for a day or a week! Find out who the "gunlords" are & TAKE THEM OUT!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:19 PM

it isn't just illness that draws people back to his country -you may qualify for healthcare in the EC with an E111 but you do not qualify for social help for the elderly ie home or residential care in many countries if you become infirm. Social care is free in Scotland and meanstested in the remainder of the uk, but free for those on basic benefits pension credit etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 07 - 06:34 PM

I only wish we could secede from England and join Scoland here in Harlow...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The PA
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 03:18 AM

News this morning, the M5 is closed at J11 Gloucester - someone taking potshots at a police car - now tell me its not getting worse?
Three in as many days? It maybe 'copy-cat' stuff, but its still people having guns and going out in broad daylight and using them.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 04:42 AM

My main reason (though I agree with a lot of the reasons others have given) would be the increasingly controlling "Nannie state" where no one can think for themselves, no one expects to take responsibility for their actions and you can't turn round without some3one saying it's dangerous and passing a rule to stop you from doing it.

As someone who moved here by choice in the first place 30 years ago, I've seen the place change for the worse at a rapidly increasing rate. The England I came for has all but disappeared

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 04:46 AM

When National Service is brought back, or whatever fancy name they decide to call it, at least the little antisocial scroats will stand some chance of being knocked into shape!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 05:04 AM

I was castigated on this Site last year by lots of regulars from England for daring to tell them that their streets were unsafe, that thuggery was the norm with their teenage yobs, now every paper I read is crying out for`law and order`.

The fault lies with lack of parental control, the parent or parents of the hood on the street spend most of their evenings at the local pub.

I pointed out that on the European mainland this form of yob rule was unheard off, the only exception being those resorts were the English youth use for replays of their behavior at home.

It is getting more and more out of hand, winning the streets back for the people is going to take a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 05:11 AM

Friends of ours sold up a lovely house in Somerset about 5 years ago, and moved to Normandy in France, reason given was "Can't stand any more of that effing Tony Blair!"
Giok.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Stu
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 07:39 AM

ard has it spot on.

At nightime every park in the country has it's own contingent of yobs getting arseholed and threatening ordinary people. They cause problems on their way to and from their drinking grounds ansd the police either don't give a shit or certainly can't give them a cuff around the ear so they are pretty ineffective - and the yobs are only too aware of it.

No discipline. Poor parenting. Claim culture. Freely available cheap booze. Useless coppers and politicians who don't understand what is actually happening.

In my opinion we're fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 08:20 AM

Either bring back a system like the old Remand Homes, and/or make the parents of children under the age of criminal responsibility legally responsible for the actions of said child.
e.g. If a ten year old commits a felony, charge one of both of his parents with the crime as if they'd done it, which in way they have!
We have no sanctions we can apply to young children, corporal punishment is illegal, the law cannot touch them, and they know it, so they take advantage.
I have threatened to call the police to a couple of young thugs locally, and got the, 'They can't touch us' reply, time they were stopped from being able to maraud and damage with impunity.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 08:21 AM

But in fact, the areas where you don't feel safe on the streets are few and mainly around the big towns. It's just that they are the ones you hear about. Once again, you never hear about the streets, villages, towns where nothing happens because it's not news.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 08:22 AM

"At nightime every park in the country has it's own contingent of yobs getting arseholed and threatening ordinary people."

Wrong - at least, where I live it's wrong. 'Every' is a big word, and pretty much unverifiable. I'd agree with 'some parks' though.

"No discipline. Poor parenting. Claim culture. Freely available cheap booze"

Correct.

"Useless coppers"

Wrong again. It's "demoralised and emasculated coppers whose hands are tied by the Politically-Correct-Dickheads who are dictating how they can do their jobs, a judiciary who live on the Planet Zog, and law-makers who haven't a clue". The coppers know what to do, they just daren't do it, and anyway they're too busy filling in stupid forms in order to satisfy the Politically-Correct-Dickheads, Planet-Zoggers and clueless law-makers.

IMHO :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 12:50 PM

Perhaps a few suggestions:
1) Bring back Borstals
2) If 'kids' commit "Adult" crimes (such as firearms offences) let them face "Adult" courts and "Adult" sentences.
3) Add 'other' offences committed during the commission of a crime into the mix at sentencing - example: If a shooter has no suitable licence, there's an automatic extra "illegal possession" charge (that's worth up to 5 years).
4) Drop the 'sentences served concurrently' crap - make it CONSECUTIVE, let the ba*ds know that they stand the chance of going away for a VERY long time.
5) "Bolt On" additional sentences for use of weapons - as a suggestion:
Using anything "a reasonable person" could take for a firearm (Touys, replicas, blank firers, de-activated weapons etc.) -2 Years
Assault with above (not discharged) - 3 years
Discharging same - 4 years
Assault with firearm (weapon discharged) - 6 years
Wounding with firearm - 8 years
Homocide (deliberate or not) 15 years (no reduction)
The above to be 'add on's, to be served consecutively with any sentence for the crime for which the defendent is convicted (so a murderer would get Life + 20 years (15 for the homocide + 5 for illegal posession) + the appropriate 'bolt on' for anyone else killed or injured.
Maybe it won't be seen as a deterrent, but it will keep the scum out of society*
6) Bring back public Corporal Punishment - A birching in public would have more effect than any ASBO
7) Bring back 'Hard Labour' (preferably, heavy, hard and soul destroyingly boring) and 'Rigorous Imprisonment'
Unfortunately these last two would be condemned as 'cruel and unusual' and probably be condemned under 'Human Rights' legislation.


* Can we start a prison colony on Rockall?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: GUEST,watney's
Date: 24 Aug 07 - 06:58 PM

Possibly due to the number of immigrants ?
English is becoming the second language in many of our schools.
The government has to deal with this.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 07:21 AM

Red Herring there Watney's (for god's sake, why would anyone which half an ounce of self respect choose to name themselves after the worst 'beer' ever produced?). Almost the entire population of North America is made up of 'immigrants', give a generation or two, but they aren't all leaving.

And a large proportion of emigrants from the UK appear to be immigrants who decided to go home, or somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:02 PM

6) Bring back public Corporal Punishment

Actually the reason we got rid of it (and the same reason they got rid of it in schools) was because it didn't work.

Take any school punishment book - the same names appeared time and time again. Also it allows some people sexual gratification, beating people. Just another form of child sex abuse.

Wasn't there an Eton Headmaster in there somewhere?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:07 PM

My guess would be that people are leaving the UK in order to get far away from Olive Whatnoll and 'er 'usband, Eddie.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 01:09 PM

Let's hope they catch the scum who shot poor 11 year old Rhys Jones.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are they leaving the UK?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 25 Aug 07 - 04:24 PM

We considered leaving and a lot of that was due to the 'nannie state' as mentionned by MBSLynne above. That and the culture of favouring cheap young teachers over experienced ones. I don't find an obvious increase in crime round here although I do notice the lack of respect kids show in general in schools. Tothe best of my knowledge the only schools that have English as a second language are in Wales and having workied in areas where the local population was mainly Asian all lessons are conducted in English.