BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 08:47 PM

With 'normal' vehicles tests showed that the best average fuel economy was at about 50 MPH or 80Kmh - as the speed increases the wind resistance increases as the square ... not a linear increase ...
the extra resistance with a towed van or the higher one piece campervan things will get far more expensive very quickly.

Also, as the speed increases, 'aerodynamic lift' of the body shape can cause the front steering wheels to lose good contact, thus making life exciting...

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Maryrrf
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:55 PM

If there is a definition of a 'good' accident it's one where everybody walks away unscathed. I'm so glad the two of you are okay! Caravans can be replaced.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:08 PM

You make the accident sound positively picturesque.

In the US we call them fender benders or roll overs.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: EBarnacle
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 12:00 PM

When towing our business box, the only way we can keep the MPG up to 12 mpg is to hold the speed to 50. Needless to say, this makes for some very long trips. Normal MPG is about 23 on the tow vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 03:54 AM

I think that campervans are often no brisker or more stable than a well matched car and caravan, and since I have been known to bend the speed limit a bit find I am quite often passing struggling campercans which are certainly higher than a caravan (since they usually have one bed over the driver's cab) and seem to find crosswinds or headwinds a real trial. The modern front wheel drive van chassis are an invitation to getting bogged on a campsite, and to need to unlevel and disconnect etc just to pop down to the shops for a box of eggs (or more beer) is a real sod. UK law imposes an ABSOLUTE weight limit on the trailer of 100% of the GVW of the towing vehicle (with the exception of a few real 4-wheel-drives like land rovers and range rovers which have a maximum towing we1ght of 3 tonnes)

The giant US Winnebagos etc certainly look wonderful, but can it make sense to have £20,000 or so of toy sitting depreciating for 50 weeks of the year, and needing servicing like the car does etc? Older ones I sometimes see plugging along the motorway at about 50 as I sail by, too.

If I had a US fifth wheel, presumably I'd need a truck cab from an articulated lorry to tow it, as they all seem to need one of those truck bed things as a coupler, and they look as if the nose weight is in the order of tons not tens of pounds. And then the 20 mpg (towing) I get with the VOlvo would be more like 10 or lower. Makes a hell of a price at nearly £1 per litre.

So am I right that

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:29 PM

Tony and Pearl
So pleased that you are both OK. The mental trauma will heal in time.
Hope that you get yourselves a replacement 'van soon, preferably one with a built-in engine!
Motor-caravans certainly have their uses, and modern engines are much less thirsty than the old Ford V6!
Colyn.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 10:21 PM

Greg B

Back in the 50/60s we pulled a half ton plywood van behind an FJ over road up North Qld across dirt roads (mountains and all) over which the famous Reddex Trial was run - of course 'earlier model' cars had engines with a longer piston strike, thus more low down torque. More modern engines tend to be higher revving, with a shorter piston strike and have less low down torque.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Greg B
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:40 PM

Here in Reagan country (you know, the good old USofA, 'Murica)
almost nobody tows anything behind anything but a mighty great
gas-hog.

Even the Ford F150 pickup-truck is regarded as a marginal tow
vehicle--- things like my Toyota FJ Cruiser with it's mere 4.0
litres are considered pikers.

An F150 Super-Duty or an F250 or a Ford Expedition or Excursion
are more the norm for pulling...certainly NOT a Volvo passenger
vehicle!

It wasn't always that way. Back in the 1960's you'd routinely
see a Buick or Ford station wagon (that's an Estate to those of
you across the pond) albeit with a 360 or 427, pulling a travel
trailer (caravan) with it's ass hanging low and the lot swaying
about. (Before the 'Lucy' show, she and Desi Arnaz did a great
movie called 'The Long, Long Trailer,' which didn't much
exaggerate.)

But mostly, over here, the travel trailer has given way to dedicated
'motor homes' which are built on commercial truck chassis. The
very smallest of these are built on delivery van chassis, but none
has less than 200bhp these days. Back in the 1970's and 80's they
built some on Toyota light truck chassis, with as little as 2.4L
to propel them forward, or hold them back. They've gone the way of
the dinosaur.

Just to put it in perspective, on my FJ Cruiser, I'd not tow
anything greater than one of the tiny fiberglass 'micro' caravans
or a tent-trailer. The speeds are too much, the mountains too
high, and the distances to great to consider otherwise.

Glad you're okay.

A mere investment in a 12 miles-per(US)-gallon vehicle will make
your life easy--- should you come into the fortune to feed it!

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Bee
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 09:15 PM

Foolestroope, we installed an electric trailer braking system which certainly helped, but we decided to ditch the monster anyway, for a smaller one. I'm still dreaming of a second hand Oxygen or ALiner...

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:17 PM

Most European caravans still have overrun brakes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 08:48 AM

"it was prone to 'pushing' on downhills. "

In Oz, trailers over a certain weight for cars (trucks had their own systems) used to have to have a mechanical brake (before the days of 'power braking), activated by cables going to both caravan wheels, and triggered by a setup that was activated by a sliding section in the hitch - braking caused the van to slide the thing forward, then hitting the brake trigger.

A real b****** if you wanted to back up and forgot to trip the manual 'safety' to allow that.... :-) ... and forgot to reset it after...

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 03:26 AM

What Peace said. Glad to hear that you are safe.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: peterfirth
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM

First I hear of you in a few years and it's about an accident and you're holding up the traffic. Glad to hear you're ok.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Bee
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:27 PM

Yikes! Glad it wasn't serious. We've owned five different trailers over the past twelve years, and one old whale was way too heavy - we got rid of it fast when we realized it was prone to 'pushing' on downhills.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 01:46 PM

When towing my business trailer [box type], I make it a point to check the tires and hitch every time I stop for a break or for fuel, also when I start out initially. So far, everything has been OK. I also make it a point to balance the trailer when I load it.

One of my nightmares it a couple of hundred thousand dollars of art work scattered all over the road--along with the accidents caused by the frenzied efforts of other drivers to avoid running over it.

[Joe, this may end up as a multiple posting due to failure to enter it when I hit the submit button. Feel free to correct the situation.]

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: The PA
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:46 AM

Wow! - I tow regularly, every week, sometimes twice a week and always check the trailer pressures and my vehicle pressures before we leave, but I didn't realise there was so much to it. I will be even more vigilant now. Thanks for the info.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:30 AM

Cripes!
Glad you're OK!

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 10:03 AM

Good too see you survived.

Having been a kid who had his family tow vans on holidays, I know about some of the excitements.

Under-inflation can cause a new tyre to burst. It can be caused by a slow leak due to a puncture. As the air leaks out, the pressure actually rises due to the tyre flexing more and heating up - this can become a vicious cycle until damage occurs and possible failure - not necessarily until the next journey...

Experts will check the temperature of the tyres - a bit hard without a meter - and the pressure - if the pressure is much higher that it should be (normal use will raise the temp and thus pressure a little bit), when it was ok before, is a warning sign - check as soon as you have been stopped for a some time - like a food/comfort/tiredness break (you DO have one every 2 hours driving?!!!), and see if it 'starts to look flat' - well that USED to work, but now with low profile tyres, that isn't easy - the pressure is best - once you just used to 'kick the tyres'... :-)

Checking a tyre's pressure should be done when cold - if you do it when the tyre is hot, you may cause the tyre to be actually under-inflated (at resting temperature!) and start the nasty cycle just mentioned.


I once was driving a minibus (12 seater) in strong crosswinds. It was unstable just a few km/hr above 90 - any attempt to go at the 110 km/hr speed limit made it feel light in the front end and wander all over the road...

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: kendall
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 09:36 AM

You both survived. That's what is important.
I hate to tow anything; too many things to go wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:28 AM

Despite having a Volvo (pretty ideal as a towcar) I have "souped up" my Bulldog stabiliser by tightening it to about one and a half times themanufacturer's stated tightness, and it is awkward to get on and off but pretty solid once on.

I tend to bend speed limits (60 mph max here in UK, with a caravan on) but I never fail to be amazed at the number of people I see towing at over 70 with quite small towcars.

Volvo state the max weight my Volvo can tow as 1800 Kg(!) but with a max speed of 45. A Volvo weighs about a ton and a half, so the usual "85% is good but 100% is the absolute maximum unless you have a Landrover" rule would limit one to about 1500 Kg and a lot of the big modern vans are right up to that once laden.

My little van is probably only about 900 Kg laden.

I'd love a US 5th Wheeler with wind-outs, but where would I keep it and what could I tow it with? And how long would it take me to get anywhere?

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:14 AM

Tony and Pearl, Sorry to hear about your accident. Good news that you were both able to walk away!
Best wishes Paul & Tess

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: TheSnail
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 07:23 AM

Glad to hear your OK. As Liz said, be prepared for flashbacks when you're least expecting them.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:38 AM

Golly, what a horrible incident. I'm delighted to hear you're both all right, but the shock's bound to leave a scar; come and recuperate in Sussex as soon as possible.

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Cats
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 06:12 AM

Tony and Pearl, So glad to hear you are OK. Big hugs from me and Jon.   Ever thought of giving up with caravans and buying a motorhome instead? xxxxx

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:52 AM

Tony and Pearl Sorry to hear about the crash but I'm glad you're both OK.

Best wishes
Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:40 AM

E Barnacle, apart from the burst tyre which was the cause of this one, the main reason for caravans and trailers snaking is wrong nose weight, particularly too little weight.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:31 AM

Believe me, you're not over the shock - it'll creep up on you and maybe next week, maybe next month you'll be a gibbering wreck for a day or so... take care, both of you.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: The Admiral
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:20 AM

Thanks for all the hugs and stuff, we're both very touched - you almost have me in tears - let alone Pearl!
   For the technically curious, yes we did have an Alco hitch and a stabiliser. A 'caravan' or ''van' is a 'trailor' across the 'oggin, and a 'snake' (fishtail?)is the condition when a tow for whatever reason, becomes unstable and starts to swing from side to side with increasing momentum until it starts to take tow vehicle with it. After that there's no hope or possibility of pulling out of it and where you end up is in the lap of the gods. In our case, straddling two lanes of the motorway with the 'van on it's side. All this, of course, happened in seconds.
   We think what caused the 'van to be thrown out of kilter (and this seemed to be the opinion of everyone we spoke to on site) was a burst tyre at 55/60 mph. Which is bloody annoying because the tyre that burst was a new one! The evidence was there in the badly damaged rim which had obviously been run on and the fact that Pearl smelt burning rubber just before the incident.
   Anyway, I hope that answers the questions. 36 hours later we're both still a little stiff and sore but I think we're both over the shock and a little bit more accepting of what has happened.
Once again, thanks for all your kind thoughts...
Love and Regards;
Tony and Pearl

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Morticia
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:15 AM

Blimey guys, glad you are okay!

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Splott Man
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 03:40 AM

Phew!


Glad you're both safe.

Splott Man

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: MBSLynne
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 02:44 AM

Take it easy and rest up. You may be physically ok but you need to recover from the shock. I'm glad it wasn't so much worse

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 02:23 AM

Glad you made it safely. How large is/was your tow vehicle? A common reason for the trailer taking control is towing beyond the capacity of the tow vehicle, especially in marginal conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 11:30 PM

Don't do that to me!!!

So glad to hear that you are both OK (and even gladder that I stayed put til Tuesday!), as said above, caravans can be replaced.

Take care both of you, watch out for delayed shock and go to your docs or the local A&E if you get sudden headaches or dizziness and nausea.

By the way Tony, I missed my hug.

XXX

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: HuwG
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 09:12 PM

Very glad to hear you're OK, and that everyone was so helpful. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:53 PM

Glad you're both OK. Les (Toad) once said that an accident isn't bad if you can walk away from it. How true.

Incidentally, you can't keep on writing caravans off like this!!!!

Luv
Rhiannon

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:31 PM

Pics here.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:29 PM

I think it is what here would be called a trailer--hitched to the back of a vehicle that tows one's sleeping, dining and bathroom quarters.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:26 PM

Sorry to keep harping on this: So a caravan is not a Van, but a trailer?

I like the term 'snaking', the undulation describes the phenomenon better than 'fishtailing'.

It happened to me once when the stabilizer bar on my car broke as I made a turn. A wild moment or two.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Hawker
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:25 PM

Scarry! Glad you are both OK.
Cheers, Lucy

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:18 PM

What Hils said - I got a shock seeing the thread title, and am relieved that you're both OK! Love and hugs, Kitty xxx.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: skipy
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:00 PM

Just found out in chat, so, so, pleased that you are o/k, will call you tommorrow eve.
France soon!
Skipy.
P.S. You will need a medical before mission!

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:49 PM

Punctures on caravan tyres can be nasty ! Glad you are both OK ! Got the news at M & M 's this evening !

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Crane Driver
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:25 PM

Hi Tony & Pearl

Sorry to hear about your mishap: delighted to hear you're both OK.

I imagine that fishtailing would be another way of describing what happens when a caravan gets out of sync with reality - fortunately we've never had it happen to us, we've got a 'Bulldog' stabiliser which is meant to prevent that, but . . . well, we've been lucky so far, I guess.

Best wishes to you both,

Andrew & Carole

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: My guru always said
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:53 PM

So glad you're both unhurt!! What a terrible experience but you're irreplaceable and still with us, thank the Gods! That no other vehicles were involved is remarkable, delays for other motorists an inconvenience at the most. Love & hugs to you both!
Hil xx

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:22 PM

So sorry but glad you are OK.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:16 PM

What is a "snaking" accident? Do you mean the trailer was fishtailing?

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Micca
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:12 PM

After such a Great weekend too, (for which I thank you both) I am delighted you are both as Ok as possible, and I hope you remain so!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Emma B
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:11 PM

Only got home myself this evening too, glad to hear you're both safe.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: North/South Annie
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:10 PM

Hi Tony & Pearl, hope you're now having brandy for the shock! A similar thing happened years ago to Brian and Mrs.no1. He said the public ( especially lorry drivers ) were very good then too. However he did get bad whiplash from it, so glad to hear you are both OK. Have just spoken to Alison who was very late back from Towersey - guess where she got held up???
Regards Annie & Alison

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: lady penelope
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:59 PM

Indeed Peace. (((((((Admiral & Mrs)))))) so glad you two are in one piece. Keep safe, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Peace
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:12 PM

Glad you both are OK. The caravan can be replaced. You can't.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:01 PM

Nah Ebbie, it's a caravan , like this being towed on a ball hitch.
G

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:55 PM

I too am glad that no one was hurt but how about a translation for the English-impaired? From the context, it appears that the "snake" was a trailer being hauled behind a "caravan" or van, as we say.

Is that correct?

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:52 PM

A frightening experience indeed, glad you are ok.
Love to both,

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Phot
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:43 PM

Glad to hear your both ok, and idea what caused the snake in the first place?

All the best, Chris and Fiona.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:37 PM

Glad your both ok,must have been frightening.


All the best.



Scooby.

Subject: RE: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:16 PM

Oh dear Tony, glad you and Pearl are OK. I only just meet you once, and then you go and do that, you'll be blaming me ;)
Did you have an Alko Hitch Tony? I live in fear of something like that happening with the van, it's frightening enough when an overtaking vehicle tries to throw me off the road, must have been frightening indeed.
Glad you are both OK though.
Giok

Subject: BS: The Admiral & Mrs have Crashed
From: GUEST,The Admiral & Mrs
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 03:10 PM

Before the rumours start, yes, Pearl and I had a snaking incident on the M40 on the way back from Towersey and the Barn. Cutting a long story short, the 'snake' took us across all three lanes, fortunately without hitting either barrier or anyone else before it went over on it's side bocking both outside lanes of the Motorway. We had wonderful assistance from members of the public (including a BA Stewardess, who witnessed the accident from the other carrageway, ran across the caraigeway and clambered over the crash barrier with her stiletos in hand to offer assistance!
The emergency services were great and in number (1 RAC van, 4 police cars, 2 ambulances, 2 fire engines, a Fire Chief and the Air Ambulance circling!) but it took them over an hour before they cleared all the lanes and traffic was able to move. Our apologies to anyone who was in the queue!
But the upshot is, the caravan is a write off, the car is a little bit dented but importantly, neither of us is hurt, a little bit shaken and getting over the shock but OK.

Love and Regards to you all
Tony and Pearl