Ever played a Welsh Crwth?

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 12:34 AM

Dave, I appreciate the credit but John Roberts wrote Bertha's Mussels. When Lady Hillary and I visited, they did not know the song, so we sang it for them.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 04:40 AM

Thanks for the link, kat. I don't think I know the maker but I'll check him out. The price is in pounds which is a very good price - although a lot depends on the quality of the instrument.

I'm glad you like Cass's CD. She really does bridge the historical - contemporary gap wonderfully and composes some really playable tunes.

sian

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 21 Sep 07 - 10:13 AM

Crowdercref - is the 'll' in Kernoweg pronounced as the 'll' in Cymraeg ? Thread drift, I know, but we ('Catters) seem to have gone from musical instruments to linguistics !

Hwyl fawr, (hoo-oil vower), Bryn

Siaredir Cymraeg yma.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Mick Tems
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 08:51 AM

Crwth is most enjoyable, isn't it, kat? But Fflach CDs do not carry much information - probably because they they want to keep the punters guessing, but not much help to those who want to find out more.

Now your appetite has been whetted, try Kaingk by Bragod (translated, Bees.) This is Bob Evans' and Mary-Ann Roberts' vision of what the medieval crwth must have been like, with Mary-Ann's raspish voice imitating the drone of the crwth. She and Bob the crwth-player are like a couple of musical buzz-saws - very educational, but pretty challenging. Try Creighton's Collection to order Kaingk.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 09:57 AM

Thanks, Dr. Price! Just listening to samples from their album on CD Baby now! Wonderful stuff. Her vocals remind me some of the Tuvan throat singers and Tibetan monks droning.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Fliss
Date: 22 Sep 07 - 07:25 PM

Totally brilliant discussion. Best Ive read in ages. Loved the video and music clips.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 09:13 AM

"... what the medieval crwth must have been like"

Now, Mick, I think it's more accurate to say "what the medieval crwth MIGHT have been like". I think Bob's theories are incredibly interesting but ... should I say, 'subject to considerable discussion'?

Also, the 'bees' bit refers to the word 'bragod', yes? (I didn't know that!) 'Kaingk' is the modern 'cainc' which means 'branch' or 'tune'. Love the album, and comes with a hugely informative booklet. I wish, though, that I could hear more of Mary Ann's 'normal' voice - it's superb. The 'assumed' voice she uses on the majority of tracks is stylistically/technically interesting but I have to approach it in the same mindset as I use for experimental music in general.

sian

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: GUEST,dafydd
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 03:01 PM

if you say truth, then replace the "t" with a "k", then trooth becomes krooth, that's near enough.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 08:18 PM

that is one seriously weird instrument

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 25 Sep 07 - 11:29 AM

I hear that Welshman John Cale flattened his viola bridge to approximate the droning sound of the crwth when playing with the Velvets.
Yes! That's the droning sound in the beginning of Venus in Furs!

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:52 AM

"... what the medieval crwth must have been like"

Isn't it the case that all contemporary crwth playing is enirely speculative owing to the tradition of crwth playing having died out centuries ago?

What we're hearing now is very much a post-modern re-imagining of a long defunct musical tradition, which is already attracting its fair share of purists, ever eager for authenticity...

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 04:51 AM

Yes, exactly. That's part of the reason why I suggested that 'might' would be a far better word that 'must' in this case. I know that Bob bases his singing theories on a particular passage in some comic poetry and many feel that it isn't enough to support the argument. I'd quote you chapter and verse but, for some reason, I can't seem to put my hands on my copy of Kaingc.

sian

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 06:38 AM

Twenty years ago no-one had ever heard of the crwth outside of a very specialised corner of the early music scene, now it almost feels commonplace!

My first crwth came along in 1983, courtesy of Tim Hobrough, based on the hour-glass instrument depicted in the Limoges ms. circa 1100. In 1986 he built the 'Welsh Pattern' crwth which has been the heart and soul of my music & storytelling ever since. See Hiberna Desiderium for an example of how I approach this instrument, a technique which is founded as much on ergonomics & creative pragmatics as on the iconographical & written evidences concerning the cruit / crwth in Bardic cultures.

Nothing Welsh as such of course, although as a native Tynesider I'm often taken for Welsh even by native Welsh speakers - and as a life-long devotee of The Manband I fear something of their Welshness must have rubbed off on me somewhere along the way. That said, back in 1999 when I was playing at the Aust Festival of Early Music as part of the medieval group Misericordia, I was fortunate to play crwth with the late Siwsann George, albeit in an impromtu performance in the graveyard! A memorable moment with a truly wonderful person which has remained in my heart, and my playing, ever since.

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Crowdercref
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 07:41 AM

A Bryn ker,

My drifting friend (!),

You asked 'll' in Kernoweg pronounced as the 'll' in Cymraeg ?

No it's not. It's just an 'l' s to speak.

We do have some fine (usually circular) arguments about pronounciation, but that's not one of them! Our problems stem from the fact that our 'classical' Cornish literature is largely late medieval, (1400-1540) but place names and later literature show many signs of linguistic evolution (as you might expect).

Some of the fun items are
dh=th (soft)
th=th (hard)
gh=h (aspirate)
wh=h (aspirate)
f=v (often but not always)
hard c, k and g are often equivalent depending on whch old MS you're studying.

Initials mutate in a way analagous to Welsh

Oll an Gwella

Crowdercref

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:02 AM

Anwyl Crowdercref

Diolch yn fawr iawn o honno.

Hwyl fawr, Bryn

(Dear Crowdercref, Thank you very much for this. Cheers, Bryn)

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:21 PM

Just wanted to say, again, how much I LOVE listening to my Cass Meurig CD!! Wonderful music!

Subject: RE: Ever played a Welsh Crwth?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:44 PM

We held a 3 day residential event at the end of October and Cass was one of the tutors. We got together a few crythau (crwths) and she ran some "Introduction to ... " tutorials to great hilarity and effect. We have a great photo of Brian McNeill (formerly of Battlefield Band, and our Guest Tutor) having a turn on one, brow furrowed and concentration streaming from his pores.

sian