BS: Knee jerk conservatives

Subject: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Bert
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 07:05 PM

It's official here

...Analyzing the data, Sulloway said liberals were 4.9 times as likely as conservatives to show activity in the brain circuits that deal with conflicts, and 2.2 times as likely to score in the top half of the distribution for accuracy...

Makes you think doesn't it? Well, maybe it makes US think.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 07:13 PM

"Liberals had more brain activity and made fewer mistakes than conservatives when they saw a W"

So that explains George W...

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 07:23 PM

Whaaa??

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 07:40 PM

hahhahah We knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 09:05 PM

It's been noted before that many people's outlooks become more conservative as they age. Someone who's a flaming liberal at age 25 may be a hardened conservative by age 50. Do the brains of such people undergo chemical and structural changes as they age? Or were their brains always wired for conservativism and they were just faking their early liberalism?

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 09:54 PM

I reckon such like -- the ones who really get hard and bitter with age -- probably missed the real boat in both phases!! W's party-man high-living style wasn't really fun -- it was voracious and vindictive. If it'll get a few dolls to play house, a guy like that would smoke anything and assert any belief to get his wick dipped.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Ron Davies
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:21 PM

You can be conservative and still not a soulless, unprincipled wonder like our Chickenhawk in Chief.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:52 PM

Sure. There IS such a thing as compassionate conservatism, but it is not something Bush ever contacted in his travels.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 10:54 PM

That's the shame about Dubya. He turned off the thinking part of the conservative party, the part that knew how to reason and compromise, or come back another day to tackle a problem. He wants what he wants when he wants it and he lies and cheats to get what he wants. Took most of that crowd along for the ride. One must point a finger at Newt Gingrich for getting this ball rolling, and pals like DeLay for masterminding some major booby traps along the way. And Rove for his whisper campaigns. I wonder, I know Karl managed to bury Ann Richards deep in his shit, did his reach extend far enough to do the same thing to Tom Foley, Speaker of the House? He got the exact same treatment Annie did, with the same outcome in his home district.

It all makes Goldwater roll in his grave, I'm sure.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: GUEST,Don Firth
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 11:18 PM

Actually, I used to be kinda conservative when I was young. But as I experienced more of life and took a more careful look around me, over the years I became a lot more liberal.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Bert
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 11:38 PM

Don that's 'cos    ...liberals were 4.9 times as likely as conservatives to show activity in the brain circuits...

Your brain was thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 05:44 AM

"So that explains George W..."

In what way? George W Bush is not a conservative. By any measure.

(And it doesn't take a "liberal" to be smart enough to pick out a few of the flaws in the conclusions of the "experiment" to which Bert linked. I bet even you liberals could find a few of the flaws in it if it weren't for the fact that it tells you, not the truth, but what you want to believe. And the line that Bert cherry-picked to post here isn't contextually useful. You'd see that if you were honest. But, of course you're not. You're liberals.)

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 07:32 AM

I was one click from being a John Birch conservative when I was in my 30s. Then I went to college, studied history,etc. and now I can't believe that was me! I remember seeing a sign on the wall at the U of M saying "Free Angela Davis", and I changed it to "FRY Angela Davis."

Some yeras later, I signed a petition so she and Gus Hall could be on the ballot.

What happened? My mind opened up and I took a good look at what was happening. I asked myself, "What has the republican party ever done for me"? and the answer came back, "Not a goddamn thing."

What has the democrat party done for me?
Social security. I didn't even think about being old when I was young. I do now.Thanks, FDR
Medicare. Without that, I couldn't afford to stay alive. Thanks LBJ

An in depth study of history will tell you that labor unions created the middle class. You know, the forty hour week, minimum wage, child labor laws,collective bargaining, and workman's comp.

Now, what have the republicans given us? an illegal war and a 9 TRILLION dollar debt.Thanks, Dubya, for nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 07:56 AM

Well, it's a joke bit of research really, John. But a chance for a bit of leg-pulling.

And my point wasn't that Dubya is any kind of what could properly be called a "conservative" - I was just suggesting that, if conservative minded people were really hardwired to respond favourably to the letter W, that'd have been a reason for them to press the Dubya button.   

Which of course wasn't what the "research" actually showed, but that quote, taken out of context, could be taken as implying that.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 08:30 AM

"What has the republican party ever done for me"?

Pretty good measure of a non-conservative. You musta really disliked John Kennedy's "Ask not..." speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:24 AM

John:

The Republican Party, despite its fantasies, is not the country.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:44 AM

Amos:

But one who would choose their party affiliation by what they would be given by a country run by that party is still counter to conservatism, and counter to the Kennedy, "Ask not..." speech.

Deciding not to be a Republican because, as a party you perceive that it is too conservative to satisfactorily answer "What have you ever done for me?" is like deciding not to stop at the ice cream parlor to get your oil changed.

But of course you could see that. You just had a little knee jerk to defend a friend and co-liberal, Kendall. :^)

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 10:33 AM

They fought the civil war for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 10:56 AM

Freed the slaves, too.


But what have they done LATELY?




Democrats get the credit for dropping the a-bomb, too.

And getting us into Vietnam.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 11:57 AM

It appears that conservatives are too dense to understand lighthearted byplay. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: pdq
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:08 PM

"It appears that conservatives are too dense to understand lighthearted byplay. :)"

Wrong again, Ebbie.

Liberals are too dense to engage in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Amos
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:12 PM

I think, John, that it is a legitimate question, but it varies widely depending on how much is included in the notion of "me". Some people, usually gravitating a good way rightwards, it seems to me, define it narrowly as own interests only (body, possessions, family). Others include things like values, sense of fulfillment, and a broader desire for advancement beyond just personal gain.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:30 PM

It is not wrong to be thankful for the things Kendall listed. Each one of us who works pays into those programs all of our lives. They are there for us if we need them. We are not sitting on our backsides demanding such things; we ask for them if the need becomes too great to meet on our own, esp. since the near-demise of employee benefits. The government is the people, the same ones who receive help when needed.

I might also add the people who do not pay into it do not receive as many benefits if and when they may need them. I, for instance, could not ask for Social Security Disability when I had congestive heart failure, as I had not worked enough "units" to accrue any entitlement and I couldn't draw it from my Rog's "bank" never mind that I was unable to work. If Rog had died, then I would have been able to draw from his account, but not otherwise until I turned 65(which I still haven't:-)No has he, thank goodness!)

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:31 PM

pdq, you remind me of one brother of mine. If I told him he was wrong, he would say, No, you are wrong. If I told him it was 54 miles to a certain destination, he would say, No, it isn't.

He was very predictable that way. He rarely cited facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: pdq
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 12:48 PM

to: Kendall

subject: US National Debt

         The last budget period for which Bill Clinton was fully responsible

         went from OCT 1, 2000 to SEP 30, 2001. During that time the debt

         went up by over 133 billion dollars. Your fine liberal prexy

         told the world that he was running a surplus and that there

         would more surplus budgets "as far as the eye could see". Some

         Liberals are so dense that they still believe Clinton's crap! Again,

         Clinton spent enough over budget to increase the National

         Debt every year for which he was responsible. George W. Bush is

         not responsible for spending much before about FEB 2002 when

         the National Debt passed 6 trillion.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 01:49 PM

Fact. When Ronald Raygun took office he inherited a debt of 750 billion. He promised to balance the budget and not raise taxes. After 8 years, he had done neither. He never even submitted a balanced budget.
How far back do you want to go?

When Bush 1 left office, he left a debt of 4 trillion, and Bush 2 has increased that to over 9 trillion.

Clinton had the good sense to work with the republicans, not against them.So, he presided over the longest period of prosperity ever.

Furthermore, the government should do what the individual is not able to do. Calvin Coolege said, "The government that governs least governs best." So, during his time in office, and Hoover's time there was run away speculating on the stock market. Huge fortunes, all on paper. Coolege saw what was coming and got out. No regulation. We all know what happens if there is no regulation, the greedy bastards become filthy rich at the expense of the working man.
Can you say ENRON? or, Silverado savings and loan? How about Halliburton?

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 02:12 PM

John, I don't need Amos to defend me.

You should read "The 10 worst presidents" Most of it is right on the money, but I don't agree that Nixon was one of the worst. I prospered under Nixon, he got us out of Viet Nam.

By the way, the first military advisors went to Viet Nam under the Eisenhower administration.

I was raised during the great Depression, and if it hadn't been for FDR with his CCCs, WPA etc, I don't know how we could have survived.

My Father decided to be a wandering drunk, so I was one who was raised on welfare. It didn't do the whole job, but at least we didn't starve like poor folks did in the old days.
Many young people had to quit school and go to work. The lack of education doomed them to a life of manual labor. I was able to stay in school and I can guarantee that every dime we collected on welfare went to necessities, and later on I was able to get a good job, and I have paid back in income taxes far more than the government gave us in welfare.

You can read of socialism, communism, welfare cheats etc. but I was there, and what I know is from personal experience.
If you were not raised in the depression, you have no first hand knowledge.

As FDR said when the republicans attacked him, "I'm an old campaigner, and I love a good fight."

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 03:25 PM

Personal experience is not transparent but dependant on so many variables it's not true.

Like family background, personal view of the meaning of life, aims in life, personal way of relating to one's environment, range of knowledge ("how do you know if you're ill-informed?"), etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.


"As within, so without>" (Rilke)


20 witnesses to an accident give 20 different accounts. They were all speaking from their personal experience.

So we can add variability of perception.


There's more to perception than hits the eyeball.


      Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 04:20 PM

Spin it all you want. I was there. And the story I just told you is absolutely true.
Book learning is great, and personal experience is just as great.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: saulgoldie
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 05:09 PM

I got the following email the other day. Seems appropo:

Dear Thinkers,

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- just to loosen up.

Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker.

I began to think alone -- "to relax", I told myself but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking became more and more important to me and finally I was thinking all the time.

That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix but I couldn't help myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau, Muir, Confucius and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"

One day the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job."

This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey", I confessed, "I've been thinking..."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But, Honey, surely it's not that serious." "It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver.

"You think as much as college professors and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently.

She exploded in tears of rage and frustration but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama.

"I'm going to the library", I snarled as I stomped out the door.

I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors.

They didn't open. The library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye, "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?", it asked.

You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinkers Anonymous poster.

This is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker.

I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just
seemed easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me.

Today I took the final step...I joined the Republican Party

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: pdq
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:12 PM

Kendall sez:

"Calvin Coolege said, 'The government that governs least governs best.'"

Perhaps he has not yet heard of Thomas Jefferson, but that is not likely. Kendall was a history major.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 06:29 PM

kendall, in the familiar tale about the accident, all 20 people were there, and they'd each say that what they report is the absolute truth.

A jury would have to decide which of the 20 absolute truths was the true one.   If any.

    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 07:51 PM

saulgoldie, THANK YOU!!

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: van lingle
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 08:36 PM

LOL, saul.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 11 Sep 07 - 09:40 PM

Not the same thing autolycus. I'm talking facts, not opinions.

The democrat party has been very benificial to me. The republicans, zero.

Give me one thing that the republicans ever did for the working people.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 02:55 AM

kendall, I seem to recall that it was Dwight D. Eisenhower who said to beware of the military industrial complex. So they might not have done anything for you, but they gave you fair warning.BG

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: autolycus
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 05:20 AM

fendall, I'm with you, just, from across the water about voting Democrar.

I thought you weren't talking "facts" or "opinions", but "personal experience".

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 07:05 AM

In this case, both.I can prove everything I said. Can anyone DISprove what I said?

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: John Hardly
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:37 PM

"Dear Thinkers,

It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then -- just to loosen up.

Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker.

I began to think alone -- "to relax", I told myself but I knew it wasn't true. Thinking became more and more important to me and finally I was thinking all the time.

That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent that night at her mother's.

I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don't mix but I couldn't help myself.

I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau, Muir, Confucius and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, "What is it exactly we are doing here?"

One day the boss called me in. He said, "Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don't stop thinking on the job, you'll have to find another job."

This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the boss. "Honey", I confessed, "I've been thinking..."

"I know you've been thinking," she said, "and I want a divorce!"

"But, Honey, surely it's not that serious." "It is serious," she said, lower lip aquiver.

"You think as much as college professors and college professors don't make any money, so if you keep on thinking, we won't have any money!"

"That's a faulty syllogism," I said impatiently.

She exploded in tears of rage and frustration but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama.

"I'm going to the library", I snarled as I stomped out the door.

I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors.

They didn't open. The library was closed.

To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye, "Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?", it asked.

You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinkers Anonymous poster.

This is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker.

I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was "Porky's." Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting.

I still have my job, and things are a lot better at home. Life just
seemed easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me.

Today I took the final step...I joined the Republican Party"

At least you are capable of laughing at yourselves a little.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:49 PM

Beautiful piece.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:51 PM

Thanks to Saul Goldie for posting it at Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Sep 07 - 12:55 PM

I rather think the implication of that is that both sets of squabblers should acquire the ability to lighten up and laugh at themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: autolycus
Date: 13 Sep 07 - 03:56 AM

kendall, one other thing.

Reading thru thr thread again, I notice that it was thanks to FDR and so on that you and yourfamily survived; and that in your 30s, you came within spitting distance of being a John Birch conservative.

can you say more. i'm at least, non-judgmentally, puzzled and curious. Just interesting about we can "think".


    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: saulgoldie
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 04:06 PM

The problem with the senses of humor, John Hardly, is that while those of us on the American Left CAN laugh at ourselves, and at life and all its foibles, those on the American right seem only capable of laughing nastily, sneeringly at people who don't share their opinions, at their suffering, and calling names. That is not an enlightened, human sense of humor in which everyone can share a laugh. It is just plain ugliness.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: Jeri
Date: 24 Mar 11 - 04:16 PM

That post of John Hardly's is more than three years old.

Who knows, though. Mudcat time zone is something like "4:17 PM, this or maybe last century."

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 03:03 PM

"For of those to whom much is given, much is required."

This is dedicated to people who cherry-pick Kennedy's words--I can cherry-pick too..

Subject: RE: BS: Knee jerk conservatives
From: GUEST,Alam Whittle
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 08:05 PM

The solution is simple.

All politicians are forced by law to wear kilts. We see their knees jerking, and they get sent off (like in ice hockey) for knee jerk reactions.

Three knee jerk reactions, and its death by firing squad. All these rightwingers seem to be a fan of 'three strikes and you're out'. Lets see if they feel they themselves are capable of redemption.