BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)

Subject: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:14 PM

We're having the provincial election tonight...another shot at signing away your power to the next lot of representatives for another 2 or 3 years... ;-)

So I went and did my civic duty. I voted for the NDP. They're the number 3 party here most of the time, they're nominally socialist, and I like their general attitude better than I like that of the presently ruling Liberals or the not presently ruling Conservatives.

By the way, don't necessarily believe that these party's various names tell you all you need to know about what they really stand for! ;-) The Liberals are the party that pretend to be for the common man, but are really for their rich backers in the business community. The Conservatives are the party that pretend that being for their rich backers in the business community is the very same thing as being for the common man! Heh! And the NDP are the party who would dearly love to be for the common man, but once in power they will end up either cooperating with the rich backers in the business community or dying an early and ignominious political death after which they must suffer obscurity for some time afterward... (their present position, having been in office once back in the 90s)

So I vote the underdog. Heh!

But that's not the important part. The important part is I got to vote for something else too. There's a referendum this time. You get to vote either to (1) keep our present electoral system which rewards the first guy "past the post"...resulting in elections where 42% of the vote can dictate to the other 58% for the next 2 or 3 years....

or (2) a new system based on proportional representation.

Awright! I voted for the new proportional representation system. I hope a lot of other people did too. It could help make a pretty fraudulent system of governing a bit more honest.


What's gonna happen tonight in my particular riding? That's easy. The local Conservative candidate, Garfield Dunlop, will win. People in this riding would vote the Conservatives in even if they ran a chimpanzee or a monkey for the provincial parliament. ;-) Trust me. They would. I have told Chongo about this, but he said he's not interested in politics as a career. Too bad.

Why does this riding vote Conservative? Well, it's because of the demographic. You have an almost completely white, middle-class, financially rather well off, and older population...the very people who once lived in Toronto, 40 years ago, but have since fled to the smaller rural towns and cities north of the great international megalopolis.

They vote Conservative because they think it protects their vested interests, their white-bread existence. Ha! I seriously doubt that it does, but that's what they think. When they get REALLY upset about something they will occasionally vote for the Liberals instead. For the NDP to get elected here, though, the Liberals and Conservatives would have to both be revealed as secret Satanic associations of child-abusers who have been practicing human sacrifice all these years....

I am curious how the referendum will go.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: bobad
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:26 PM

You think YOU vote for the underdog, I vote for the Green Party, talk about underdogs. Their platform most closely approximates my thinking on many issues. I am a realist though and know that I may as well beat my head against the wall for all the good my vote will do.

I also support MMP as a less than perfect but better than nothing solution to the lack of representation determined by popular vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 07:37 PM

Yeah. ;-) You are so right, bobad. I thought about voting Green. It was a tossup for me between them and the NDP. I like their platform too.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:15 PM

I vote for the Rhino Party given the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:22 PM

Alas! The Rhinos don't have a candidate in this riding. I would have expected them to horn in here, but no such luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:26 PM

None here, either.

Good on you for your vote, LH. You too, Bobad.

Thanks for the heads up regarding the referendum. I'll watch for the results of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: bobad
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:30 PM

I'm a Rhino man too, when they are running, after all they are the only party that accords to politics the gravity that is it's due.

They were close to extinction but are recently in the process of making a comeback. Rhinos website.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:34 PM

Awright! By God, I will have to think carefully about this. I don't like belonging to any political party, but I am willing to make a personal sacrifice to put the Rhinos back on the ballot.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 08:52 PM

I have printed the form and it will be in tomorrow's mail.

Guys, think of the spin-off benefits of this. There must be legions of Canadian Mudcatters who would willingly sign the form to get the Rhinos back into the political scene. Guys, we can DO this.

Any other Canucks gonna join us?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: bobad
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 09:03 PM

Mine's going out tomorrow too. If enough of us do this it's just possible that we may someday get the government we deserve.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 09:22 PM

Yeah...but what if we got the government Shane deserves? What then, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Oct 07 - 09:29 PM

I slipped over the border to Alberta and voted Socred, myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:33 AM

Here are the results:

Ontario provincial election 2007

The Liberal's decisive majority Wednesday was accomplished with just roughly 42 per cent of the popular vote, compared to some 32 per cent support for the Conservatives and about 17 per cent for the NDP.

As for the referendum, the fools out there apparently voted overwhelmingly to keep the old "first past the post" system that they are used to and understand, instead of moving toward a more genuinely representational system of proportional representation. They are afraid of what they don't understand and have given little or no thought to, I expect.

The NDP must be feeling good. They made a gain of about 3% in the overall popular vote from last time. That gain does not translate into more seats, but it's still good news for them. The Greens also gained considerably in popular vote, but their gains will translate into no political representation at all with the "first past the post" system...same as you have in the USA. It's a system that tends to perpetuate the older and large parties in politics and keep the newer ones from getting their foot in the door. That's what I call "conservative" thinking... ;-)

So there were two main losers tonight: The provincial Conservative Party of Ontario....and innovative thinking. A bit ironical, that. The public has opted to maintain the old reliable status quo.

It is also often the case in Canada that when there is a Conservative federal government, as is the case at present, the public tends to vote in a number of Liberal provincial governments....and they do the opposite when it's vice versa. It seems to be an instinctive form of applying checks and balances. I'm not sure it works that way, but that's what tends to happen.

The NDP (socialists), by the way, have formed a number of provincial governments in the past, but they have never yet had the clout to win a federal election, and they probably never will.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:37 AM

One nice thing about tonight's result. It will make the editors and columnists at the stinking Toronto Sun all want to go out and hang themselves...! ;-) They're slightly to the right of Attila the Hun, as the saying goes, so they hate the Liberals with a passion verging on barely controlled hysteria, while they regard the NDP with utter and absolute loathing, of course.

Suffer, Toronto Sun. Suffer.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:51 AM

An explanation for our American friends: The Liberals are a party that can be described as vaguely "liberal"-middle of the road in tone (if not content)...vaguely like the Democrats. The Conservatives are a party that is roughly comparable to the Republicans and they appeal to the same mindset as the Republicans. The NDP is a leftist socialist party with the support of usually 14-20 % of Canadians at any given time. You have no real parallel to the NDP in the USA...a country where socialists are seen as pretty much beyond the pale. ;-)

So a typically American conservative viewpoint accounts for about 32% of our Ontario public at the moment, while 42% are middle-of-the-road liberal in your terms, and 17% are considerably to the left of that. If we had ONLY the Democrats and Republicans here to vote for, the Democrats would get about 2/3 of the vote, normally speaking.

That tells you the difference between American and Canadian politics in a nutshell. The way the Conservatives can normally win elections here (when they do) is by splitting the considerably larger liberal constituency out there between the Liberals and the NDP. They can also win, of course, if the Liberals have been in long enough to really create some major hostility on the part of the public. Any party in power anywhere can eventually wear out its welcome if it just tries hard enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: sian, west wales
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:11 AM

Re: the Referendum, I did some internet research as my mother was quite agitated about it. She will have voted to keep the FPTP system. I am very 'pro' proportional representation and was appalled by a) the lack of decent information on ARM, b) the misrepresentation of facts by the No camp and c) the utterly stupid system being proposed for the 'list' candidates>

a) I couldn't find any really well presented explanation of what the Yes camp wanted. I did find one website with details but so badly designed that you couldn't really spend time on it. My mother, who is partially sited, simply couldn't access any sensible information on the campaign.

b) the No camp's site was inflamatory (which should have been enough to get Mum to vote Yes) and misleading. It reported that the UK did not have a PR system; well, the Westminster gov't is FPTP but the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly have an ARM system (not sure about N. Ireland) and it has resulted in much better government. It ain't perfect - I'd have preferred a Single Transferrable Vote system - but ... baby steps.

c) this idea of having a province-wide 'list' was completely bonkers! The system here (in Wales) is one vote for your constituency and a second for a regional cluster of constituencies. Those who go through on the regional 'list' are still going to be relatively local. Whoever thought of the province-wide list was obviously working for the No camp!

I'm sorry that you didn't go for Proporational Representation (PR). I don't suppose it will come up again for a while now. PR is definitely better ...

sian
(formerly Port Colborne, Ont)

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:20 AM

It's just sheer ignorance that is holding it back at this point, plus some false propaganda, I would assume. You can always get the monkey to agree about the cage and the stale bananas if he simply doesn't know there's any better alternative

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 07:33 AM

I gotta turn hard right to meet the NDP, but it's the only party that even remotely represents my interests so they get my vote. I also voted for MMP in the referendum. I agree that if you choose not to decide, you've still made a choice, so I vote. Never missed an election, and always vote NDP.

My local MPP didn't change, and she and the surrounding MPPs are mostly    not to my liking (I was gonna say twits). Status quo for now.

The Green Party got nothing because it's too much vegetable and not enough meat. It disappoints me by being to far to the right, and oft times too shrill, even if it is screaming into a vacuum most of the time.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: 3refs
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 09:31 AM

Little Hawk
Glad to say we agreed on one thing! I was in favour of electoral reform too(I just heard REFOOOOOORM in my head, it sounded alot like Preston).
So, there I am at the ballot box looking at the names, and I start laughing. There it is at the bottom of the ballot, "Dane Trane Raybould". I coached this kid a few years ago when he was still in High School and I remembered a conversation we once had; "What have you got in mind for a career Dane? He replied "I want to be a used car salesman Coach! I should have known right there and then!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 10:12 AM

Thanks for the update, LH.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Amos
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 10:33 AM

History of the Rhino Party. I think we should have a branch in this country. Think of the wonders we could perform if elected!!

Free abortions, universal oil change, radical energy loss programs for tired citizens, banning false statements from all political advertising, and a bill to move all lobbying activities to the roof-top solariuim for starters.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 10:35 AM

In Canada, the Rhino Party doesn't run for election, it walks.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 10:45 AM

Rhinos 'putting the party back in political party'
Jessica Johnston, News Editor

Just when you thought it was safe to participate in the electoral process...

Following a 13-year alcohol-induced absence, the long lost and much loved (by some, anyway) Rhino Party has re-entered B.C. politics just in time for the upcoming provincial election.

The party is promising cocaine and whores (among other things), barbequing rats at the Vancouver Art Gallery, getting down to some serious ridiculousness, and making fun of everything in sight.

The Rhino Party is described as "a pro-democracy, anarcho-absurdist movement dedicated to humankind's innate right to have a good time," and is comprised of "artists, anarchists, absurdists, activists, alcoholics, practical jokers, loudmouths, perverts, door-crashers, weirdos, maniacs, show-offs, oddballs, and morons."

Despite the Rhinos' overt disrespect for conventional politics and their mandate for having fun, the party's platform is clear, comprehensive and designed to ensure the economic well-being of this province.

The Peak was fortunate enough to obtain a rare interview with Liar Liar, one of two Rhino candidates who will be running in this week's provincial election.

Once elected, one of the first acts of the Rhino mandate will be to eliminate B.C.'s provincial status in order to become a corporation, says Liar.

"What I intend to do is to turn the province into a corporation because as we know, human rights laws and environmental law - what good are they doing us? None. They just get in the way of us making profit... what I want to do is eliminate the provincial status we have now and trade it in for corporation status so we'll actually have more legal leverage on the international scene." In order to gain the start-up capital for this new corporation, the Rhinos intend to "log, fish, mine and hunt everything within our borders," says Liar, "trees are really just something that obstruct our view of profit."

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 11:33 AM

Har! Har! I love it. Now THAT's honesty in politics!

The Rhino party also once promised to:

Eliminate unemployment (and all other disturbing things like that) by abolishing Statistics Canada....

and...

To move the Rocky Mountains to the Maritimes, as a sort of equalization payment to a deprived region of the country.


Yeah, 3refs, I always can hear Preston saying "REFOOOOOORM" too... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:07 PM

"Quebec author and physician Jacques Ferron founded the party [Rhino Party] in 1963 with a decidedly non-ambitious aim. When asked what his candidates would do if elected, Ferron replied "The same as yours — nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:10 PM

Also, the Party promises to repeal the law of gravity, pave Manitoba and move Montreal and Toronto closer together. Man, a guy'd be crazy NOT to vote Rhino.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:15 PM

Exactly my thoughts. Rhinos can also engage in the act of sexual coition for hours at a time without any apparent fatigue. Another excellent reason to vote Rhino.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 01:19 PM

Aside here:

"The public has opted to maintain the old reliable status quo." Little Hawk

The tone of your statements regarding the results of your election, LH, is quite different from the tone you use for the American electorate. Most of your scorn is reserved for your leaders, rather than what you heap on the no-brain, no-ethics, non-thinking American public.

Don't y9u see that?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 02:34 PM

My tone is different because my feeling is different. I do not fear what my own government may do, here or in the world in general. I deeply fear what your government may do. That accounts for the difference in tone.

As for my exasperation with the general electorate, I am about equally as exasperated with the Ontario electorate for not being imaginative enough to understand or support a new idea like proportional representation as I am with the part of the American electorate who were foolish enough to believe that Saddam was behind 911 and that he had all those supposed WMDs...but in the case of the American electorate, that's a far more important matter with much greater ramifications. It has caused many, many unnecessary deaths, and there are many more to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:05 PM

OK, Little Hawk, point grasped.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 05:09 PM

Thanks, Ebbie. ;-) All I really want to do here, generally speaking, is just communicate with other people effectively. Sometimes it works out that way, sometimes it doesn't.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 06:50 PM

I must look for the lyrics I wrote years ago. The title was, "Like a Rhino Stoned Cowboy". Can't recall... riding high on Margret Trudeau... never felt so low.... how far can we go... who is Joe... etc. Good times.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 08:44 PM

You mean my Socred vote in Alberta didn't count??? What is this, Florida?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 08:45 PM

Poor Joe Clark. I always felt sympathy for that man...

Anybody read the record of those off-the-cuff talks that Peter Newman had with Brian Mulroney? Mulroney had something really rotten to say about just about everybody else...

Of Maureen McTeer he said, "Maureen McTeer hates my guts. Of course, Maureen hates everybody."

He appears not to be nearly as silky smooth in private as he usually acts when in the public eye... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Beer
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 09:01 PM

LoL Gnu.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 09:24 PM

Oh, Mulroney had about three verses.... something about an auction and selling Mexican horse shit down the river. Damn, I wish I could find that.

You could make my Seagull fly on that one, Beer.

Hehehehehe... hey, Beer... I picked up my old Gull yesterday and started to play it. There was a strange noise. I shook it around and around and.... out it came.... the pack of silica gel that came with it when I bought it years ago!!! Hehehehe.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 09:25 PM

Make sure you don't eat it, Gnu. Read the warning label. FIND THE SONG, PLEASE.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 07 - 09:27 PM

Anybody read Mulroney's latest book?















Why not? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 09:32 AM

Because. Seriously, just "because".

Hehehe... I recall Rick Mercer talking to Jean Chretien... he said something about "Straight From The Heart" (which I did read). Jean pointed a finger at Rick's chest and said sommat like, "Next time, it will be Straight THROUGH The Heart".

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 09:39 AM

You mean, "Straight T'ROUGH Da Heart", don't you?

Chretien's quite a character, and a shrewd politician. Mulroney had nothing good to say about him either. Seems to me he called him "a complete idiot" or something like that. He had worse things than that to say about Trudeau, but he did admit that in person Trudeau was always polite and courteous to both him and Mila...off the floor of the Commons, I mean...

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 09:39 AM

How odd. First news item I picked up on in at Yahoo is about Pat Carney leaving the senate three years early. I ain't gonna read her book either... because.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 09:44 AM

"Anybody read Mulroney's latest book?"

Mulroney who?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 10:15 AM

The chin that walks like a man! How soon you forget.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Mooh
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 12:48 PM

Submitted without comment, excuse, or apology: What was long and flacid and hung between Reagan's thighs? Mulroney's chin.

Now he's been pissing on Trudeau's grave. What a jerk.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 12:53 PM

OH. The guy on the right?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM

Ah-Hah! Hah! Hah!

Yes, that's him, all right. The guy on the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 01:35 PM

And that is Pat with him!

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 01:38 PM

We should hold a national raffle to help out our good friend George Bush: "Win a night out with Brian Mulroney at the restaurant of your choice. Ticket proceeds go to assist the War effort in Iraq." Heh!

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 02:17 PM

But, would ticket sales reach $50M? I wonder how many RCMP will buy tickets? (Canuck joke. Ferriners please google Air Canada and Mulroney.)

Would the meal feature PEI potatoes and Alberta beef?

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 03:51 PM

I think ticket sales would reach somewhere around $10 or less. That's my guess. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Canada is overflowing with people who really want to win a night out with Brian Mulroney.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: gnu
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 04:26 PM

Hmmm... actually, I will lay $11 out right now. But, I don't need a whole night. Five minutes would be more than enough. Pat included.

Of course, if I could get my money's worth, I would pay more to include all of the nineteen Mulroney cabinet ministers that were "investigated".

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 05:45 PM

The man had integrity . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Peace
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 05:47 PM

and a mind of his own . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 06:08 PM

Bob Stanfield could sell underwear
And Trudeau could certainly swear!
But Brian Mulroney
Just gave us the Looney
Aside from a lot of hot air

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 07 - 10:12 PM

Joe Clark had not much of a chin
"But don't worry," said Brian to him
"I can take up the slack
And lead the attack
Cos mine's long as the road to Berlin."

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: HJames
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 04:32 PM

I have never voted Conservative, but feel that it's too bad that Tory was defeated on his support of funding faith-based schools. This (or removing any funding for Catholic schools) is only fair. It is a violation of the civil rights of all faiths except Catholic when they are given no support from the government. Since it is unreasonable to remove the support from the Catholic schools, the only fair thing to do is to fund any faith-based school in Ontario.

Subject: RE: BS: Election night in Ontario (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Oct 07 - 05:01 PM

Speaking in terms of civil rights and fairness, HJames, you are absolutely right in what you say.

I'm surprised Tory risked his campaign by taking that stand. You don't win elections by offering the people what is egalitarian, fair and just to all concerned. You win by pandering to people's fears, their prejudices, their greed, and their strong tendency to back the status quo...whatever the hell that may be. People stubbornly resist change, unless they are really, REALLY fed up with an incumbent regime for some reason, and that was not the case in this last election. As such, Tory was committing political suicide when he suggested funding the other religious schools.

It's really quite surprising to me that he would have done that. Perhaps the man is a genuine idealist.