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BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties
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Subject: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 21 Oct 07 - 06:12 PM We've had a couple of interesting apple-related threads lately. The first was Apples on the Trackside thread, from sapper on the TRU followed by Songs for Apple Day -Begun by the leveller In each, I drifted into my interest in antique apple varieties. To avoid disrupting either of the two original threads any further, this is a place in which to remember your favorite older apple varieties, and describe favorite apple memories. Please feel welcome to mention newer varieties you enjoy, trees you are growing, even other fruits you'd like to try or have grown. Overt or covert leakage into musical references will be happily tolerated, but would probably reach more people in the Songs for Apple Day thread. Anyone? maeve... growing apples and other fruits in Maine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 21 Oct 07 - 08:49 PM One of my favourites is Egremont Russet, it is very crunchy and juicy and has a lovely sweet nutty flavour. Supermarkets probably don't like it as it has a scabby looking skin! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Rapparee Date: 21 Oct 07 - 09:00 PM There were old trees that grew on a relatives property high in the hills along the Blue Ridge Parkway. I don't know what sort they were, but they were certainly good eating! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:13 PM I asked about the old Winesap in one of those threads. I wish I could find one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: pdq Date: 21 Oct 07 - 10:38 PM The Strayman Winesap" (also called "Improved Winesap") is my favorite apple too, but I do not believe it is really an "antique". The original Winesap was replaced by a seedling found in about 1866 and it is probably a true antique variety. try this source |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: pdq Date: 21 Oct 07 - 11:02 PM Another good one is the Spitzenburg which seems to produce well in New England. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: theleveller Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:21 AM Thanks for continuing this maeve, we had a great apple day with plenty of singing, cider and apple-based food. Also picked the last of the apples. The varieties I grow in my orchard are Ellison's Orange, Kidd's Orange Red, Tydeman's Late Orange, D'Arcy Spice, Bramley Seedling, Sunset, James Grieve and a Yorksire variety, Ribston Pippin. I also have a greengage, a damsom, a quince and two cobnuts. Don't know how many of these you grow in the US but they're old UK varieties that are not grown as much as they used to be. This year we have had the most fantastic crop - so many I don't know what to do with thema ll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 22 Oct 07 - 08:31 AM I've heard of most of the apples and other fruits listed here. You have some good'uns. the leveller. We know cobnuts as hazelnuts. Q- Regarding Winesaps, in the Songs about Apples thread (see link above) I posted a link to Fedco Trees in Maine They have well-researched varieties including a Winesap. With the link given by pdq you have a choice of sources to consider. With some footwork on your part, I believe you have a reasonable chance of tracking down an apple that's at least close to the version you remember. Rapaire- Can you remember enough about the apple you liked to describe it? I'll make a list of our apples when I have time to get back here. Anyone have other favorites? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: The PA Date: 22 Oct 07 - 08:51 AM We've replanted our orchard over the last five years. We get old and odd named varities from a company called Adams Apple. We've around 60 - 70 trees not sure how many exactly thats husbands department. Some of my favourite names are Cats Head (looks just like a cats head)and Tom Phut. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Grab Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:01 AM I'd second Egremont Russet. There are also other russet varieties around, but you'll never see those in the shops - hard enough finding Egremont Russets. The Botanical Gardens in Cambridge runs an Apple Day every year, but sadly we couldn't make it yesterday. They're not antiques, but it's difficult to do better than a Discovery flavour-wise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Rapparee Date: 22 Oct 07 - 09:04 AM Green with a faint touch of red. The seeds were fertile and would actually produce bearing trees. The land had the remains of two old cabins made from American Chestnut on it, so I know the area was settles long ago. There was also a pipe run from a spring that was used in former times to cool the worm of a still (you could still see the furnace, etc. used for the still). The land was 100 acres of high meadowland in Virginia that backed up to Shenandoh National Park. It has since been sold (to pay medical bills) and I strongly suspect that the trees are long gone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Bert Date: 22 Oct 07 - 02:07 PM "Beauty of Bath" a small, early apple that doesn't keep but the flavour is out of this world. "Blenhiem Orange" like a Cox's but bigger and earlier. "Bramley" and "Charles Ross" but they both have to be ripe to taste their best. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: theleveller Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:16 PM maeve, here in Yorkshire we eat apple pie with Wensleydale Cheese, which is a mild white crumbly cheese that's delicious with pie or with a good apple. In fact, we have a saying: 'apple pie without the cheese, is like a kiss without a squeeze'. Some people in the UK think this combination is really strange but it's fantastic. Do people in the US eat cheeese with apples or apple pie? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: MMario Date: 22 Oct 07 - 03:20 PM a good strong cheddar w/ apple pie or apple wedges - yes; at least in the New England/New York areas. Not sure about other regions of the country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Dave'sWife Date: 22 Oct 07 - 06:07 PM In another thread someone mentioned Spitzenberg (sp?) which are a fine apple. Bert mentioned Bramley - another wonderful variety. The thing with older apples compared to new ones is that the older ones were more all purpose and good for baking whereas today, most apples sold are engineered to look like a work of art and provide a nice crisp when bitten into. This is fine if all you want to do is eat raw apples. I cooked with apples a great deal and not just in desserts. I loved good baked casserole of pork and apples (in slices not as sauce) and I am always chopping apples up to include in rices, grains and salads. Older varieties of apples are essential to savory chutney's because they have more natural pectin than the grocery store types. In addition, the best cider comes from older varieties because there is a natural yeast on the skins of certain apples that helps ferment the cold-pressed cider. You can drink it before it ferments and after - all with no additives. Here's a nice site about an orchard in Virginia working with heirloom Apples: Vintage Virginia Apples |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: mrdux Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:32 AM Although it's not all that old, I've been enjoying Hudson's Golden Gem lately -- it was discovered in about 1929, growing in a fencerow thicket near Tangent, Oregon. a crisp, sweet golden/russeted apple, that has a hint of pear-like aroma and taste. My other favorite these days is a new-ish cultivar called Honeycrisp, out of Minnesota (1991) -- very crisp and juicy with an amazing balance of tartness and honey-like sweetness when they're ripe. Tillamook cheddar and apple pie is pretty popular out here (Oregon). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:42 AM I grew up in Washington State, famous for its apples. But they've gotten smart--the iconic "Delicious" apple has some drawbacks. You can't cook with it and it doesn't taste as good as some of the others, so most of the growers are (pardon me) "branching out." One that we see here in Texas that seems to be coming from Michigan right now is the Honeycrisp. I'm guessing this is probably an extremely new apple. It doesn't have the shelf-life of many of the others, though. We get it when it's ripe and that's all, it doesn't seem to come from apple warehouses all year round (that's probably good!) It looks a little more old fashioned, a bit lumpy at times and they can be very large. But they do taste good. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:58 AM mrdux, I see we cross-posted. I'm glad to see someone else is enjoying that apple also! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: mrdux Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:23 AM SRS -- in fact, I'm enjoying one right now -- from Washington State -- as I write. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Dave'sWife Date: 23 Oct 07 - 01:36 AM OKAy - May favorite older apple varieties: Northern Spy - can't go wrong with that one, an all-around great cooking apple Campfield Harrison Baldwin Jonagolds Pippins - too many different varieties to mention Jonagolds are available here in los Angeles and they're a cross between Jonathans and Golden Delicious (I think - sometimes the names don't follow the obvious derivations). Whenever there is a sale on them for 10 pounds for $5 I stock up and store them in a clean cooler just for apples so that no other vegetables or fruits will contaminate them with Ethylene gas and make them rot. These apples keep so well that if you store them properly in a cool and dark place, safely away from ethylene producers, they will keep for months and be just as good as they were the day you bought them. Folks with nice dark cellars might want to keep this in mind when apples are cheap this fall. Any apple with crisp flesh that doesn't go mealy will store for months if you do it right. Buying a bunch from an orchard at harvest and then using them all winter is a good way to save money. Just be careful to separate out all the apples with even the slightest of bruising and eat or cook those immediately. There's truth to the old saying that one bad apple will spoil the whole barrel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Oct 07 - 10:27 AM When I moved away from home, where my mother was the pie maker, and started doing it on my own, I made a few soupy discoveries. Like "don't make an apple pie out of red delicious apples." It is the wettest pie you've ever seen. I use Granny Smith for cooking, but I also use some of the others--Gala is a good eating apple and it doesn't cook up as juicy as the delicious. My mother used to make an apple cinnamon coffee cake when I was a kid that has really visceral connections. Coffee cakes were small, easy, and inexpensive to make for a houseful of hungry kids on a cool rainy day. I am still looking for the perfect recipe--somehow that one didn't get transmitted along with the rest of her recipes. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Metchosin Date: 23 Oct 07 - 12:20 PM I don't think you can beat a Yellow Transparent, when it comes to pie. My old tree, which we originally rescued in a very sad state from my mother's driveway widening project and transplanted to our property, developed into a prolific producer for many years, despite its rough beginnings and none to ideal location here. Sadly, the tree eventually succumbed when a backhoe accidentally took a large swipe out of it. The Transparent is a very early apple, not a good keeper and bruises easily. Now I'm even grateful for any bruised windfalls full of wasps that I can come across. I just peel them, slice off the brown parts and put them up in freezer. Recently, we have had trouble with bears pushing over our remaining two apple trees and I've given up and let them go to it. But if they had done the same to our Transparent, I'd have probably fought them for the treasure. Best pie in the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:33 PM I have a neighbor who grafts fruit trees. He has a tree outside his door with enough varieties grafted on to produce a steady stream of fruit from mid July to late November. I digress, but I am coming to a point: My favorite of those apples is the Pink Pearl. Not antique, but its pink marbled flesh is both very tasty and beautiful to look at in, say, a salad. Apparently it's good for pies and applesauce too. Here's a description: "Bite into this yellow-skinned apple and you'll be surprised by a bright pink flesh, as well as a refreshing sweet, juicy tartness. Medium sized apple with an attractively blushed skin. Rich, sweet flavor with a fine aroma. Good dessert quality; makes colorful applesauce or pie filling. Place the tree in a focal area of your landscape so you can enjoy the showy deep pink blossoms in Spring. Developed in Humboldt County, CA by Albert Etter. 600 chill hours. USDA zones 6-10; Sunset zones 6-8, 14-17." Available for shipment nationwide from this site, and probably from a lot of other dealers as well. (By the way, it needs a pollinator...but that's not going to be a problem for you, right?) A wonderful apple! Claire |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: MMario Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:36 PM figures! Even the interesting APPLE varieties won't make it here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,Neil D Date: 23 Oct 07 - 03:55 PM I worked a few summers on an orchard when quite young. There were 2 varieties of Northern Spy. The older variety was more speckly red and green and had a very unique flavor, tart and sweet and nutty all at the same time. There were also 2 kinds of Red Delicious as well. The older variety was sweet but mellower than the new. The old gent that owned the orchard called the newer ones Double Red Delicious. Thats what you find in your grocery store and it is way too sweet and way too juicy. Around here (Ohio) some restaurants still serve apple pie with a slice of Swiss cheese on top, but not so much anymore. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: MMario Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:15 PM Juicy? Red Delicious? I have never seen a juicy red delicious. they are usually sawdust dry. Of course they turn to mush if you try to cook them so I know there is juice in there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Anne Lister Date: 23 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM We've had some great apples from our Lord Lambourn (still a sapling but doing well). And we also have a couple of old varieties which are too young in tree terms to bear much fruit - we're not sure yet if they're Slack me Girdle, Catsheads or Dr Fosters. One managed to produce two apples (both of which fell from the tree and rolled down out of reach - we have a steep slope - before we could taste them, but they're beautifully russett in colour). Any expert is welcome to come and visit to identify what we have! Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: ClaireBear Date: 23 Oct 07 - 05:29 PM So would that make them Dr Foster's tumblers? (sorry, couldn't resist) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Anne Lister Date: 23 Oct 07 - 06:38 PM Or possibly from a girdle that was too slack... Anne |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: kendall Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:23 PM Red Astracans (sp) Wolf Rivers Golden delicious |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Gurney Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:45 PM Early Russet, the dry, floury type. Hard to cross-pollinate, I've heard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 24 Oct 07 - 04:53 PM Hey there, Kendall. We'll be grafting Red Astrichans this coming spring for sale in the spring of 2009. We're told they're great for cider. Wolf Rivers have a mixed reputation; some love the flavor, size, and beautiful appearance. Others claim they're pretty but tasteless. How did your family use them? Fresh eating, drying, baking? A neighbor has an old Wolf River tree, and we could graft from that. Sinsull's Yellow Delicious apples are quite tasty, and will be even better with a bit of care. We may be grafting some of those, as well. theleveller- Yes, a nice bit of cheddar is delicious with apple pie! I'm in Maine with a Southern heritage, and it was also an expected combination for generations of my True Love's family in New Hampshire. It needs to be good cheese, however. Processed "cheese food" just won't do! Anne/Tabster- Oh, do I have a Robert Frost poem for you! It'll take me a little while to post it, but it's made to order for your two-apple tree! maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: pdq Date: 24 Oct 07 - 05:49 PM "Sinsull's Yellow Delicious apples are quite tasty, and will be even better with a bit of care. We may be grafting some of those, as well." The merits of the Golden Dellicious are the subject of some debate, but it usually makes a strong tree with nice dark foliage. May I recommend grafting to it rather than grafting it onto another tree. Another vote here for Northern Spy, but it does require more chill time than most and should not be tried in warm climates. Belflower is rather hard to find and grows whippy and needs a good pruner to keep it in control. In sone semi-tropical parts of the South, Southern California and Texas, it is one of the few varieties that will set fruit, having (as far as I know) the least chill requirement of any variety. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:04 PM My favorite variety of antique apple is the BLACK TWIG
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Oct 07 - 10:09 PM Although for JAM - the American Crab Apple - that is common along irrigation ditches - and will bring your mouth to "lock-jaw" with a cherry-sized munch....cannot be bettered.
Slightly rosey in color - you will find the jam a five star winner in most county fairs.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:24 PM Yes, Black Twig is one I'd love to try. What did you especially like about it, Gargoyle? maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 24 Oct 07 - 11:58 PM pdq- Thanks for your suggestions. We have Bellflower, and will likely be grafting Northern Spy, as well. It sounds as if you have or have had an orchard? maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,Redhorse at work Date: 25 Oct 07 - 08:42 AM On a visit to the US, we stopped at Pomona Orchards, near Ellijay Ga. In the shop they had more varieties of apple for sale than I'd ever seen in one place. In the corner they had a counter selling hot pies. Looking forward to a pie made from an unusual variety, I went to the counter. "What have you got?" I asked. The girl looked at me as if I was stupid. "We got apple" she said........ nick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: kendall Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:00 AM To tell the truth Maeve, we boys didn't eat the Wolf River apples. They were bitter, but, the size was perfect for throwing at each other. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 25 Oct 07 - 09:12 AM Ha! That figures, Kendall. That would hurt! Dis you ever jam a small green apple on the end of a long stick, then lob the apple out at your brothers? I believe that we'll try drying them instead of throwing them. maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 26 Oct 07 - 10:29 PM Just cannot for the life of me, find any indigenous varieties in shops here in Ireland - so I tend to go without rather than support the outrageous food-miles syndrome! Will we ever, ever get a sane world? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 26 Oct 07 - 11:28 PM To: Mauve RE: Why Black Twig??????
It is crisp..............................................................................................it is tart........................it has a touch of sweetness....................................................................................and is FULLY apple-flavored............................ strawberry - raspberry - plum NUANCES/ANNOYANCES!!!
It is an "earthy apple" .................................................................................one..................worthy.............................of..........................tempting....................................Adam....................in ......THE GARDEN.......
It is small enough to eat alone.....without having to share......
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Dave'sWife Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:09 AM We used to eat those little green crab apples with salt when we were kids. Just salted them and ate them but you were in for a world of woe if you ate more than two. (horrible abdominal cramps - diarhea) They are nice in a chutney with vinegar, onions, cucumbers and some sour cherries |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 27 Oct 07 - 07:53 AM Thanks Gargoyle, for more info on Black Twig. Hmmm, I wonder if we can track down some scions. By the way, Mauve is a good color, but I'm maeve. Guest, Jim Martin- Do you have a place to plant an apple tree at home? Then you coulds graft on any of the local varieties you wanted. The scions are available over there. Dave's wife- I bet that would be tasty. I've know folks who enjoyed raw rhubarb eaten the same way! maeve |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 27 Oct 07 - 10:32 PM I planted a couple of Irish varieties, one called April Queen, the other I forget the name, but they should cross-pollinate; I aquired them from Irish Seed Savers who are doing a wonderful job for local provenance. Unfortunately, where I live is very exposed, being 400ft up a mountain, facing all the elements which blast in from the SW (i.e. the Atlantic); I've either had blossom or apples forming, but they've always (so far) been torn off by the wind. I am gradually getting more shelter from a hedge which I planted around the haggard so, here's hoping! http://www.irishseedsavers.ie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:02 AM Maeve-
Are you requesting Black-Twig Scions?
Do you have a tree for top working?
We have a six week window between fall-harvest (IMMEDIATE) and spring-bloosem.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:11 AM You are into a freeze in Maine..... I grow 6-hour-sunlight roses from Maine....if you would (chearish) a Black Twig - how would you like it .... Rootone (hormone/plastic) or in waxed parafine?
Have you successfuly BUD grafted before?
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:23 AM Oooh! Interesting offer, Gargoyle! I used to work with the fellow who did the grafting in the Forest Service plantation on our district. Via helicopter they would pluck the apical meristem from the tops of various evergreen trees at specific elevations and graft it onto root stock down in the easy to reach (elevation-wise) orchard. It's pretty interesting. I've never tried it, though. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:38 AM SRS - you are a "kook"
RE: "Forest Service" Plantation Grafting
The process is skillful, it is VERY time consuming, it is done through manual labor.
Hellicopters would NEVER be used in grafting apple-trees.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Your favorite antique apple varieties From: maeve Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:34 AM Thanks, Gargoyle, for the generous offer. We do both bud grafting and grafting onto hardy rootstock. I would indeed have cherished a Black Twig, and and we do have several trees for topworking, but have learned that they are not hardy in Maine. Thank you very much for thinking of it, though. We do have a King David, an 1893 chance seedling from a Jonathan- Black Twig cross, so that will have to do for us. SRS- It appears you are referring to the grafting of evergreens? It sounds like an interesting process. Do you remember what species and what size material was being harvested and then grafted? What was the purpose of the project? Jim Martin- I'm glad you've found such a good source for apples. What other Irish varieties would you like to have? maeve |
