folksingers who quit,and why?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 12:57 PM

I take no heed of Folkie Dave,waffling on about surveys,of course he hasnt done any himself,.
He is far too busy watching Sheffield United,murdering the beautiful game.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 11:47 AM

Grab: The answer is "3) there aren't enough people interested in traditional singing to fill a festival" which takes us back to the original question... Why do we quit?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 11:43 AM

Sorry: Two of them are my own. I forgot what was on there.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 11:42 AM

Richard: The address I gave you was for my space where you will find 4 home recordings. They are gentle and three of them are my own. They are however "Home Recordings".
You will find more at my home page .
As for my live performances. I can handle any stage. Like most good soloists, I am as much a comedian and story teller as I am a singer.
I'll have the whole audience singing by the end of the second song (on a bad night) and when I deliver a message, you can hear a pin drop. To coin a phrase: I can hold them in the palm of my hand Easily!
Now isn't that just what a folk entertainer is supposed to do.
I cannot be a band but if counting microphone stands is what you're into......
No problem with your being blunt but to measure me as a performer by listening to a few songs I recorded in my basement is wrong of you.
It does however point to exactly what the festival organizers are doing.
Think I'll go buy myself a yellow toga & bongo drum.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Grab
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:53 AM

FolkieDave, if only 60 people turn up to a festival dedicated to traditional singing, the possible conclusions are one or more of the following:-

1) the festival wasn't well organised or publicised.
2) the festival was charging too much (unlikely from the sound of it!)
3) there aren't enough people interested in traditional singing to fill a festival

If the answer is (3), which I honestly think is the case, then the answer is simple - your chosen field of performance is an extreme niche market and as such is not economically viable. At the other end of the spectrum, I suspect bands playing death metal and experimental jazz have similar problems - what they do may be pushing the boundaries of mainstream taste, and it may be very good in its genre, but that doesn't mean you'll get folk through the door.

Graham.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 08:06 AM

Some of 'em get dysphonia, hysterical or otherwise.

Some become alcoholics - not difficult on the UK folk circuit I would think!

Some of 'em aren't businesslike. They should emulate people like John Kirkpatrick, already mentioned in this thread. I was incredibly impressed with John's merchandising operation at our village hall a few years ago - before, after and at half time out came the CDs AND a battery plastic card reader! He had about 30 quid off me in two shakes of a lamb's wotsit - and good for him.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,Sparkles
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 06:12 AM

I started following this thread because its supposed to be about why people should give up doing something they love. Can we get off this festivals kick or make another thread about it?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:49 AM

Surely the captain is right that most "big stage" folk festivals neither draw many artists nor many audience from their locales.

Ely and Broadstairs do have the Morris sides out to the local streets, and Broadtsars and Sidders have music (alas in the case of Broadstairs mostly not folk music) in the local pubs. Likewise Deal is a street festival, largely. But even Tenterden (again, lots of street dance) has most of the concerts in places where the local public will be much in a minority. Miskin did try very hard to keep a local element to booked guests, but alas at present it is not, hope as we may for it to rise like a phoenix from the ashes.

The campus festivals by their very nature charge for site admission, which means that the passing local will not be in attendance, and to suggest that stewards are motly drawn from local folk would I think be abold assertion. Many festivals advertise across the country for stewards, and from across the country they come.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:23 AM

That should read:

You are of course entitled to your opinion - as ever - so long as you make it clear it is your opinion and nothing more and does not have spurious statistics like 80%.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:20 AM

I missed this bit. Again I quote your own words.

I said 80percent,NO,I havent done a survey ,and I may be exaggerating

So the figure of 80% is one you made up? Good that you admit it.

It isn't that you are exaggerating Dick it is just based on nothing whatsoever and thus has no real value.

You are of course entitled to your opinion - as ever so long - as you make it clear it is your opinion and nothing more and does not have spurious statistics like 80%.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 05:15 AM

Well here are the words you wrote Dick.

moreover most festivals[in the UK] take place,in complete isolation and do not involve the local community at all

Dick it just isn't true. Most folk festivals do involve their local community for the reasons I have already pointed out. It is often in the form of reduced price admission; they involve them as stewards; they involve them in things like community choirs; and they involve them through local schoolchildren for which they can get grants. Two festivals I can think of do ALL of those things. The local community supports the festival with small scale sponsorship. Locals come to dances, watch street activities and enjoy sessions - mostly.
Some towns rely on festivals for tourist income - or does that not count as local? Some schools do well out of holding a festival on their grounds or does that not count as local? Try taking away Shepley Spring Festival from the local cricket club and see how far you get!

They are not "community festivals". Of course they aren't it is a different sort of festival.

Where I live there isn't a Walkley Folk Festival (though there is a community festival) so of course I have to travel. Same applies to most people. If people did not travel to folk festivals then the artists would not need to travel either. Is that what you are advocating?

Rant over.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 04:54 AM

Folkie Dave.
Stop putting words into my mouth.
I said 80percent,NO,I havent done a survey ,and I may be exaggerating,but most folk festivals are attended by folk enthusiasts,who are not local[do you agree ].most events at folk festivals,are attended by folk enthusiasts,who have travelled to get there.
Folk festivals are generally speaking not community festivals.[and you know it.
Kathryn Tickell,is a fine folk musician.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 04:30 AM

Why not name these three bands and let's judge for ourselves from their gig lists.QUOTE.you are confusing popularity with quality.
    The best band I saw this year as Top of the Bill was Kathryn Tickell. Pure tunes without singing for 1 hour 30 minutes. Hardly rock and roll.QUOTE
Yes, but nothing to do with folksinging.
your personal top of the bill,just tells us about your taste ,nothing else.
Generally speaking,at least 80 per cent[there are a few exceptions],folk festivals have become a Pot Pourri,a musical jamboree.

Dick I see you are back to the old ways of making assertions with no evidence to back them up.

Which folk festivals have you been to where this happens? Was this a nationwide survey or limited to England - or Ireland or what? Or is it as we both know - simply a personal opinion with no real evidence to substantiate it.

To say Kathryn Tickell who is a fiddle player has nothing to do with folk singing is to state the bleeding obvious.

Now rephrase that and say she has nothing to do with folk MUSIC. To my mind holding a large audience of 800 simply with traditional (or traditional style) tunes and minimal chat over a 90 minute period is an achievement to be proud of. Shame she is not a singer I suppose.

Finally to say festivals do not involve the local community is nonsense. That may be the case where you live but most festivals go out of their way to involve the local community. Amongst other things it can be a source of funding and having the local people on your side is absolutely imperative.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Nov 07 - 02:53 AM

Well, for the benefit of the snipers in the long grass, I've been to have a listen at some of Jim Lad's stuff I can trace on the internet. Not a representative sample - I got bored with the downloading!

I tend to excessive bluntness and to being hypercritical, so read the following in that knowledge.

While what Jim does is not my preferred style (it is mostly Irish and some Scottish) it presents the songs very well. Jim has a very pleasant voice in the gentler Irish style (the style could be simply the accidents of the tracks I listened to) and conveys the narrative extremely well. I also sense a real emotional connection to the lyricism of rural Irish song. I think Cap'n Birdseye would approve.

It might however work better in the small venue, the pub back room, rather than the big stage. The big stage tends to demand the flash, the razzle-dazzle, the grand gesture, rather than narration. I didn't see that, and I preferred what I did see for the absence of it.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 06:10 PM

Santa: It was I who suggested that if folk entertainers knew that they could get the opportunity to play main stage at summer festivals then they would have one more reason to stick around rather than switch over to the hospitality industry as I and many others have done.
Folkie Dave. Not like you to pop in and out without reading the whole thread. Maybe put on your favourite Battlefield Band album for background music while you read through it.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Santa
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:34 PM

The local community are able to turn up if they want to. Folk festivals are not exactly held in secret, they are advertised locally, they do tend to occupy local pubs, and the dancers dance down the street. But I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the thread. Are you suggesting that folksingers quit because of barriers put up to prevent locals attending festivals?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:12 PM

Folkie Dave.
Why not name these three bands and let's judge for ourselves from their gig lists.QUOTE.you are confusing popularity with quality.
    The best band I saw this year as Top of the Bill was Kathryn Tickell. Pure tunes without singing for 1 hour 30 minutes. Hardly rock and roll.QUOTE
Yes, but nothing to do with folksinging.
your personal top of the bill,just tells us about your taste ,nothing else.
Generally speaking,at least 80 per cent[there are a few exceptions],folk festivals have become a Pot Pourri,a musical jamboree.
The purpose seems to be to put bums on seats,and pander to the next commercial pop/folk trend,these unfortunates a few years later are discarded,when the next so called exciting act comes along.
Groups/ singers,become throw away commodoties,who can be replaced,by the next hyped[wondersinger /band],all that appears to matter is finding a new wonderact each year.
moreover most festivals[in the UK] take place,in complete isolation and do not involve the local community at all.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:01 PM

OK: Soar Patrol

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 03:48 PM

What's the difference between a large pizza and a professional musician?

A large pizza will comfortably feed a family of 4....

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 03:38 PM

Jim Lad, I do not know the festival scene in the Maritimes but if you can "fill your book for a year then in one week. Easily!" then you are doing immeasureably better than virtually any professional folksinger in this country except the very highly popular and sometimes not even then. Depends I suppose - they could all fill their books for by playing for nothing of course but I am sure that is NOT what you meant.

Why do you want to do festivals with a full booking diary? Is the money that much better than the gigs you are already doing? I really don't understand? I feel I am missing something in the difference between your "scene" and ours.

Why not name these three bands and let's judge for ourselves from their gig lists.

Richard name the band - I don't see the problem if you can defend you description as the truth. And if you can't and they recognise the description anyway..........:-)

The best band I saw this year as Top of the Bill was Kathryn Tickell. Pure tunes without singing for 1 hour 30 minutes. Hardly rock and roll.

My top of the bill artists this year included two singles (Vin Garbutt and Roy Bailey, two duos Spiers and Boden and Simon Mayor and Hilary James and some bands as above.

To BEE. I guess that is about right.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 02:56 PM

I have seen a band at a festival, quite well up the running order, that was indeed a couple of Highland Great Pipes and many djembes. Not much need for a PA rig, and not indeed a huge difference between the different numbers.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 06:42 AM

Nice one Colin!

Actually it doesn't get a lot better than that. You have a war story to tell. Those ones stick in your mind better than the other stuff.

Gigging pubs is more fun - you set off, you have an adventure - if you get them up dancing they become more uninhibited. The hardware is more exciting and nails the buggers in their seats. And to be honest - its folkmusic, for real folks.

you should have stuck with it. we need more Leonard Cohen to infuse the tradition with a bit of cheeriness!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Colin Randall
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 05:29 AM

My days as a floor singer are best forgotten. But in whimsical mood at Salut! Live(link offered in case anyone interested)I offered a variation of the theme of this thread: the one-off semi pro experience that's woeful enough to put you off for life. It certainly worked for me.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 04:09 AM

Yes I understand that, Tim.

The same twee observations in the same hackneyed way, and they make a virtue of it by calling it a tradtion.

So when you look for the language of your own world, its not there. You try to speak the language of your world and it sounds odd and unlyrical - because it is there to describe people and situations -not to luxuriate in a warm bath of nostalgia about a place and time that probably never existed.

I hope you don't quit, my friend.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Nov 07 - 12:48 AM

i quit before i started ..


easier to cope with critics & disapointment that way...


though i reserve the right to start up afresh again after i retire...

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 10:23 PM

"World Music" My arse!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Beer
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 09:47 PM

Sometimes it is just that they have no more to give and want to go in a different direction. Like maybe marbles or snaring rabbits. Who knows.
But we should always remember when we sing one of their songs to tell the listening audience who wrote it and as much history as we can to pass that history on. Because folk music in a lot of ways reflect things from the past,present and future.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Brendy
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 09:25 PM

Djembes....?
Two a penny....
(doesn't quite rhyme..., but hey, a little bit of bad verse never went amiss on occasions like this....)

Why people quit?

A fairly common complaint that I've noticed over the years is that the enthusiasm can go.
Being a musician, 'professional' or otherwise is intrinsically a creative activity.
It has its own rat-race, though..., and too often I have seen the creativity sucked out of an artist by the stresses and impositions they face out there on the road.

Most of the people I know started playing music for a living because they loved the music.
We changed our lifestyle in order to do that which we love.
The road itself has taken many of us.

But there is quite a lot of disillusionment out there....

.... touch wood...

B.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 08:04 PM

bodhran clouting traddies .......?

bongo bashing hottentots.....?

banjo carrying extremists.....?

introspecive navel gazing snigger snoggers....?

recidivist Childe Molesters.....?

Personally I'd ban the lot of 'em. theres too much of that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 07:51 PM

Jim Lad-Follow that up with a bunch of Bongo Ensembles and you've pretty well got what is now called a folk festival. Hmm...I take it you might be refering to "World Music." Although I dislike that umbrella term for anything not in your own language, it does encompass folk and traditional music, as well as contemporary music, and should at the least be recognized as such. I understand that YOU might want to attend a festival that is only traditional music of the English/Irish/Scottish/etc. variety, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I think its a little insensitive to refer to a music you don't like as a bunch of bongo players. Not a personal assault, mind you, just an observation.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 07:28 PM

See the thread running now on "shut ins" for insight on why I had to quit.

Art

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Bee
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 05:42 PM

I'd guess you have to have a very particular combination of qualities to persevere as a professional folk singer/musician - only one of which is being a good folksinger/musician.

As an artist, without bragging, I know I'm as good as many who are at the top of the 'paid well for it' heap, though not as good as some. But I don't have the kind of ambition the top o' heapers have, nor the business smarts, nor the dedication to live in the right places and schmooze with the right people and follow the most recent fashion. At times in my life I've envied those people for having the traits I do not; other times I've been a bit scornful of them for sometimes 'selling out'. But for the most part, I just understand that they have been willing to learn and do things I haven't - more power to 'em.

I imagine there's a lot of the same dynamic in the folk music world.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: oggie
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 05:20 PM

WLD That geezer from Mr Fox was Bob Pegg and he's still around and still working. Storytelling, community arts, some gigs, some commissions etc. Based up in Scotland.

Steve

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM

I saw John do a gig with Geoff at the old Blackthorn club. they were pretty damn good together. i think they did a few more. mind you John was great with anybody. a superb accompanist. his plaintive banjo accompaniment on Ian's Unquiet Grave is one of my all time favourite tracks.

Geoff was very kind to me - like my wife he got rheumatoid arthritis very early in life.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,wordy
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 03:26 PM

Brian clark..went back to carpentry and re-fitted the Orient Express carriages.
John? John Dunkerley? He was never Geoff Bodenham's partner. He joined Harvey Andrews as his accompanist until he sadly died a year later. Bodenham was one of a duo "1812".They split many years ago. Geoff managed pubs and is now retired in Bridgnorth.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 02:00 PM

As for me, well, I've said it all before. All that can be found here in this Mudcat forum.

Art

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 01:53 PM

I said you COULD start a thread like this - I didn't say it was a great idea.

Personally I often wonder about the people in the Ian Campbell folk Group - Ian, Lorna, Brian Clark, Colin Tommis (I know Aiden Ford and John have gone.)

Talking of John what about his partner in a duo - Geoff Bodenham.

Steve Adams from Tamworth and Andy Dwyer.

Marc Sullivan - American guy who toured England in the 1960's and palled around with Pete Quin for a while.

What about that geezer who was in Mr Fox and wrote songs of huge length?

Pete Castle, I seem to run into like every ten years or so. Usually (like me) propping up some lunatic musical enterprise. (Yeh, go on Uncle Al tell us the one about the avant gard playwright who wanted to write a play about Derby in the blitz accompanied all the way through by musicians improvising in 15/17 time!)

McNulty out of Peabody and McNulty......

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 01:40 PM

PS, I seem to have lostyour myspace - what is it?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 01:10 PM

I can't comment on how good you are live, Jim Lad, but the rest is right on the money....

PS - VERY bad ROcknROll sometimes...

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 12:58 PM

Folkie Dave: You said "As far as "most of us" is concerned Jim, - the only way you could legitimately claim you were being ignored by festivals (I would think) is if you are getting tons of bookings elsewhere and still getting ignored by festival organisers"
I can fill my book for the year, in one week. Easily!
I have no idea what it's like in Britain right now but I can tell you that, with just a few exceptions in The Maritimes, Folk Festival line-ups bear very little resemblance to any folk night, anywhere in this country.
Two or three big festival bands take most of the top spots plus a couple of home grown entertainers or bigger names coming over from Scotland.
Follow that up with a bunch of Bongo Ensembles and you've pretty well got what is now called a folk festival.
Don't be surprised if the final act on a Saturday night is just bad rock and roll.
Gone are the days when you could expect to hear a full line-up of folk singers and folk musicians.
As for your thinly veiled insult about me possibly not being good enough.... entirely uncalled for!

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 11:58 AM

You can easily retire with a million dollars in the bank after a career as a folksinger.

Of course you had to have two million dollars in the bank when you started.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Nov 07 - 11:30 AM

Dick - "too folky for a country audience and too country for folk", is how Jack Hudson has been described by someone who reviews his records.

That could easily explain his lack of bookings. I haven't seen him or heard of him much recently - and I get around - he does not seem to have a web presence or a myspace presence. He doesn't seem to do many gigs at folk clubs so he clearly isn't just ignored by festival but by just about everyone else as well. Remarkable how everyone comes to the same conclusion as far as booking him is concerned.

There is a whole festival at Bradfield devoted to traditional singers less than five miles from where I live. About sixty people turned up to listen to them and the festival is supported financially by the organiser out of his own pocket to make sure it continues. He charges £10.00 for the weekend so ticket prices are hardly extortionate and that includes camping. Beer is £1.50 a pint. And sixty people turn up.
Four of them were people who had come at my invitation. And another was me.

East Anglia Music Trust has traditional singers and dancers. I could go on........

Joan Crump has evolved a slot for traditional singers at Loughborough Festival next year.

Shepley Spring Festival will have traditional singers from Sheffield next year too.

As far as "most of us" is concerned Jim, - the only way you could legitimately claim you were being ignored by festivals (I would think) is if you are getting tons of bookings elsewhere and still getting ignored by festival organisers OR some festival were booking you and some were ignoring you despite concerted efforts to get bookings by you or your agent. If all festivals are ignoring you then it may just be you. I don't know not knowing what you do or what you sound like.

When I was involved in a festival I received dozens of CD's from unknown singer song-writers who have to be especially talented in my opinion to get a look in. I have to tell you most people ignore them as I did.

I also received loads of CD's and promotion material from solo singers, bands and groups. When I asked when and were I could see them sometimes I got a reply. Some never bothered. One duo put on a special performance. They got booked. Another I travelled miles to see. Their stage presence was nil although their music was reasonable.

Tell me would you book a band with nil stage presence for your festival?

Anyway it is fairly easy to remedy. Start your own festival.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 05:54 PM

Folkiedave: Most of us.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: oggie
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 05:48 PM

To be a professional anything means that you are in a business, like it or loathe it. If you can't pay the bills you leave/go bust. If you can't stand the lifestyle you leave. If you realise you can earn more money for less hassle and get a mortgage etc you leave ( or become semi-pro). If you realise that you can't earn as a pro what you currently earn as a semi plus your day job you don't bother becominf pro.

Or you may just grow out of it sit back and enjoy the music/performing without the pressure of thinking "I need 4 more gigs that month and why doesn't x return my calls and how do I pay that bill and s**t is that the bailiffs".

A lot of the longstanding "professional folksingers" listed above, also make a portion of their income from non-singing activities, instructional DVDs (Kirkpatrick), instrument teaching, school's work (eg Pete Coe), web design (Dick Gaughan) etc.

It also helps if you have a royalty stream (MacTell) or at least have some money from your back catalogue.

Steve

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 05:06 PM

Folkie Dave,Wee Little Drummer,thinks they are ignoring Jack Hudson.
I think they are ignoring unaccompanied singers of traditional songs.,
whether these two examples are real folksingers,who knows: but people without good management,do tend to get ignored, regardless of their talent.,
as you rightly say, Dave, commerciality has taken over.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: stallion
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:58 PM

kendal, you lost the voice but we didn't lose the man, the world would have been a poorer place without you, and, you still tell mean stories!
Pete

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:45 PM

Been a long time since Folk Festivals looked seriously at the real folksingers

I am an inveterate festival goer.

Surely the "Festival Bands" as you call them cost money - and the festival organiser is relying on them to draw crowds to pay for the festival.

Which real folksingers are the festival organisers ignoring and why do you think they are making a mistake?

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:35 PM

I had no choice. When cancer robbed me of my voice I was useless as a folk singer.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:27 PM

Richard touched on something about Folk Festivals, up there.
Been a long time since Folk Festivals looked seriously at the real folksingers.
Proffesional "Festival Bands" who contribute nothing to Folk seems to be the order of the day. They make more noise and draw more $$$$$.
When it swings back the other way, I think you'll find more solos willing to play their for the rest of the year.
That would be a different thread though.

Subject: RE: folksingers who quit,and why?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 09 Nov 07 - 04:19 PM

Addendum:

Remembering the cameraderie and the sense of acceptance and belonging that the earlier coffee houses often provided, I accept that it was part of the growth process; tied to my youth and my dreams of the time, 1956-65. It was a very amateur-driven thing. There is no way to recreate that time and place, though I wish it were more available to young people now. The commercialization that occurred during that time brought a lot of young people in, but also drove a lot of them out, leaving some really embittered.

The music "business" can be a very cold, ugly and unsympathetic one. The late Jim Croce's widow, Ingrid, once told me that people in that world were the worst she had ever dealt with. And, HE was one of the successful ones. We should all enjoy the music for its own sake, and not for the ego-gratification, money and status so many lust after. If you have the true passion, follow it. But, for God's sake, don't cut off your ear for it. I'm just glad music is still in my life, at any level.