Crumhorns and early instruments

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: MikeRebec
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 01:53 PM

Just a quick addition to my previous note. Tutti flutti, if you play flute then you should have no problems with fingering although some minor adjustments may be necessary. Using recorder fingering is the way to do it and you will work out your own adaptations for your particular instrument; omitting the last finger for notes such as b flat and f natural and adapting f sharp to the right index finger rather than the second and third fingers is the norm. Having said that, the norm for one isn't necessarily the norm for others!!! You really do have to get used to your own instrument and you will eventually get the hang of the breath pressure which can vary greatly from note to note. There is no rhyme nor reason to the wondrful world of crumhorns. What make did you get by the way?

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: MikeRebec
Date: 24 Nov 07 - 01:47 PM

You are right Sedeayne (earlier contributor to this thread) Amazing Blondel used the crumhorn to interesting effect, mainly the alto although Wincott used the bass to comic effect after John Gladwin left the group. Gryphon were operating during the same time, early 1970s, and Richard Harvey and Brian Gulland (later to join Gabriel Yacoub's Malicorne) used them to mesmerising effect. (See Talking Elephant Records for Gryphon's re-released first 3 albums). And yes, you are right, the late David Munrow was on Shirley Collins' "Anthems in Eden Suite" using crumhorns. I myself played them with the group Rebec back in the 1970s and 1980s and I currently play them, rauschpfeife, recorders and shawm with the ceilidh band Madcap and still enjoy them. However, if I had a pound for every time the midget's hockey stick or umbrella joke had been made at me then I'd be quite rich!

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Banjiman
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 05:02 PM

Bobcat, I enjoyed it FRF...made a very pleasant change from yet another guitar!...and you were thoughtful enough to play it outside.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,bobcat
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 03:35 PM

Good for you! A world which can tolerate bagpipes and Rod Stewart should have no trouble with the crumhorn. A suggestion - when you join your friends, don't start with romantic slow airs.

My advice for intonation is 'listen to the guitar.'

In Austin TX there is an early music course called the Texas Toot. Part of the Toot is the Great Krumhorn Konklave, which is held in a beer garden. There, recorder players are handed crumhorns, told they are fingered either like a C or an F recorder, and left to have at it. Instantly they are playing pieces by Bach, Purcell, etc.

The beer helps.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Don Firth
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 02:24 PM

Some decades back, when I was attending the University of Washington School of Music, I was aware that there was an early music group forming. It sounded interesting. I wished I could have got my hands on a lute and joined the group, but at the time I had no idea where I could find one.

Anyway, a friend and I were walking down a hall in the music building and we encounter a fellow carrying an instrument that looked marginally like an oboe, but it curved back on itself. As he hustled past us toward the door to one of the rehearsal halls, my friend ask him, "What kind of an instrument is that?"

The fellow glared at us and answered with a surly tone of voice, "It's a crumhorn! And no smart remarks!!" Then he disappeared through the door.

There may be a story there. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 01:42 PM

Audlem is near the Cheshire / Shropshire border. The session is at the Shroppie Fly, on the canal, so there are ofte holiday visitors at the session.
Regulars include members of several bands, and a couple of early music groups, as well as lots of singers. I think there's a Rauschpfeife at the Shroppie, too.
Some of the singers are even kind to would-be musicians, and tell them the key. I found that a big help in learning to play by ear, things like "whiskey in the jar" are fairly easy to find.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: GUEST,Bobcat
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 01:19 PM

PowderKegs Morris side has a Rauschpfeife player amongst its musicians...great loud sound. Look back to an earlier thread about instrument seen at Kettlewell and look at www.lesession.co.uk web site and you will find much about this renaissance instrument in folk dance music. For those who followed that thread, you'll know I rushed out and got one having seen PowderKegs dancing in the Yorkshire Dales...and I'm loving it...not sure that all who hear me play do!!!

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 12:42 PM

The only crumhorn 'joke' I know: you're going to have to blow harder than that to blow it straight...

Where's Audlem at?? Sounds interesting...

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 08:16 AM

Audlem is very varied, but there are usually some early music enthusiasts there, amongst all the rest. It seems to be a nice mixture of songs and tunes, without the anti-tune/ anti-song feeling that there seems to be in some places. I would go there regularly, but I'm on the committee of a dance club so can only make it in school holidays.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 06:39 AM

Well, I take my banjo along to the Audlem sessions, so the crumhorn lads should be safe from too many offensive remarks.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: tutti flutti
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 05:06 AM

Thanks for all the encouragement - once I've mastered it I'll try it out at a session or two and see what the reaction is.

Tootler:
"Controlling intonation was a real issue, however. It is much more wayward than a recorder. The slightest degree of over or under blowing had the pitch wandering, ..."
How true! I can get all the notes no problem but getting them in tune is the tricky bit. I love the sound though so will definitely persevere.

Mo the caller
I've been to the Audlem Monday night session a few times - good session isn't it? Mostly I've just sat and listened but have played whistle a bit too. I tend to play only Irish tunes at sessions but do know a lot of Playford stuff so will give it a go once I've mastered the dratted thing. Mondays aren't good for me because I have a rehearsal in Shrewsbury and, although it finishes at 9.30, by the time I get to Audlem everyone would be going home. Worth going there though on non-rehearsal nights if there are a lot of people playing early music as that is my favourite.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Ernest
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 04:03 AM

Go for it, as long as there are no jokes about it like about banjos or bodhrans!
Good luck
Ernest

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Mo the caller
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 03:21 AM

At Audlem on a Monday night people often play 'early folk music' i.e. Playford and such, so that might be the place to start.
Horses Brawl, Sellingers Round, Joan's Placket, Rufty Tufty, etc.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 17 Nov 07 - 02:42 AM

The crumhorn in 'Folk Music' has an interesting provenance - the Amazing Blondel employed it to heart-warming & often 'comic' effect ("...it's not a snorkel or walking stick for little men..."), and even managed to send it soaring heavenwards in 'Celestial Light'. Malicorne arguably took things a little further; and perhaps it featured on those Shirley & Dolly albums with the late David Munrow (et al) although not having the albums to hand I couldn't say for sure.

Back in the 1970s it was a bit of a 'buzz' word (!) though you don't hear so much of it these days - or maybe I move in wrong circles?

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 11:50 PM

I love the sound of these! Found a really interesting website with all kinds of information, links, and some sound files (though some are just midis): CLICK HERE.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Nerd
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 10:30 PM

Talk about intonation being a bugger!

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 07:38 PM

I've been learning the Turkish mey (basically the same thing as the Armenian duduk, Georgian duduki and Azeri balaban) - it has a lot of the same characteristics, though with a lipped reed rather than a windcap. The tone is much mellower than a crumhorn, but getting accurate intonation is a bugger. A crumhorn isn't much harder than an ocarina once you get the hang of always blowing at exactly the same pressure, as if it were a bagpipe.

Crumhorns are a bit old hat nowadays anyway. If you want to surprise your audience, get a carnyx.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 07:14 PM

Go for it.

I borrowed a crumhorn once. My wife and daughter hated it, but I thought it had character.

As a recorder player, I found getting tunes out of it no real problem. Controlling intonation was a real issue, however. It is much more wayward than a recorder. The slightest degree of over or under blowing had the pitch wandering, so taking it further would have been a interesting challenge.

Why not use it for folk music? With a range similar to the GHB and scottish smallpipes, there should be plenty of tunes available and it will produce an interesting addition to the usual sounds in a folk band or session.

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: oggie
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 05:34 PM

Go for it, variety is the spice of music.

Steve

Subject: RE: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: RTim
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 03:37 PM

My wife - Jan Elliott - plays the occasional crumhorn at our Beggars Description gigs. The band has Hurdy Gurdy, English & Anglo Concertinas, Fiddle, Whistles, "Crumhorn" & Percussion.
We play European dance music mainly, ie. English, Irish, Scots and French, with some from Quebec and USA, mixed with songs and sometimes even a clog dance etc..
She also plays Crumhorn in her Early Music and Renaissance groups. Her main instruments are all the Recorders, Whistle, English Concertina and occasionally Guitar.

Tim Radford

Subject: Crumhorns and early instruments
From: tutti flutti
Date: 16 Nov 07 - 02:55 PM

I'm told that there was someone playing crumhorns and cornamusen at the Audlem Bagpipe and Hurdy Gurdy Day. I have recently bought a crumhorn (for an early music ensemble I play with) but hadn't thought of using it for folk music.

Truth to tell it might be a while before I'm good enough to play it in front of anybody. Flute is my main instrument and maybe I should just stick to that with whistles and recorders but it might be fun to play the crumhorn sometimes - what do you think?