BS: Political Mud Slinging

Subject: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 02:41 PM

I wish that mudslinging and swiftboating weren't strategies of political campaigning.

I wish that political debates were sponsored by League of Women Voters instead of by the television stations who produce them as infotainment.

I wish that television stations were unbiased in their reporting of political campaigns and other news.

I wish that booing wasn't permitted or encouraged at political debates.

I wish that if booing occurred at political debates, the candidate whose followers did so would swiftly call a halt to that booing.

I wish that money wasn't so much a factor in political campaigning.

I wish that the USA campaigns for its president weren't so long.

I wish that Americans could be sure that our vote really counted.

I wish that there really was liberty and justice for all in the United States and throughout the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 02:49 PM

Me too,Zi. Me too.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 02:54 PM

Amen to that!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: mg
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 03:00 PM

Me too but I find the word "swiftboating" to be very offensive to veterans and always ask that people use another word. They were proud people who did a very difficult job in Vietnam. I didn't have the energy or desire to track who did or said what in the Kerry case, but I assume everyone on all sides is telling the truth as they saw it. Imagine if you substituted the word nursing..or cooking..or engineering...to describe what you think is not a nice thing to do. Those swiftboaters were Johnny on the spot offering their considerable services in the Katrina disaster. And as a veteran I will say that it is not really likely that you will get dozens or was it even hundreds of people to get together and lie in a very public arena. So please reconsider the use of that word in anything less than a respectful way. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 03:26 PM

I wish that any political debate followed the rules of parliamentary debate, as promulgated by the NPDA or the APDA, instead of being competitions in mudslinging. E.g.:

    * First Proposition Speaker: 7 minutes
    * First Opposition Speaker: 8 minutes
    * Second Proposition Speaker: 8 minutes
    * Second Opposition Speaker: 8 minutes
    * Opposition Rebuttal: 4 minutes
    * Proposition Rebuttal: 5 minutes

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: autolycus
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 04:53 PM

If only we had well-enough educated populations that politicians would be run out of town for all the above practices, or had to up their game, or, best of all, a much better class of politician resulted simply from vast improvement in the quality of the voters.


    Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 06:11 PM

"I assume everyone on all sides is telling the truth as they saw it."

That seems a rather optimistic discussion about any politicised disagreement. My own more sceptical instinct in such disagreements is to preseume that both sides are spinning the story like mad, and neither is particularly interested in "the truth".

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 08:11 PM

...is not really likely that you will get dozens or was it even hundreds of people to get together and lie in a very public arena

Right. Pull the other one - its got bells on.

Its been conclusively proven that the swiftboating of Kerry was concocted as a political ploy by a group pf pretty slimy characters.

If you waqnt to believe fairytales, that's your right, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: The Badger
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 08:14 PM

What is "swiftboating"?

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 08:48 PM

The problem with the "Swiftboaters" is that ****none**** of them were there to say what John Kerry did or didn't do... That is whay I refer to them as the "Swiftboat Liars"... They had lots of money to smear a combat decorated vet...

This is where mud-slinging crosses the line... When folks with millions and millions of dollars can go out and smear a combat vet with their own lies... This is beyond mud=slinging... It is lieing because one happens to have enough money behinf them to get away with it?!?!?!?!??!?!?....

I didn't much like Kerry for president but I think that what the Swiftboaters did to him should have prosceuted criminally... These liars should be behing bars... Or at the very least be exposed for their outright lies and be made made to pay civil judegement payments to Kerry until the day they die...

If we are going to let rich people get away with outright lieing then I see no future for our country...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 09:28 PM

The Badger, here's an answer to your question from

Swiftboating is American political jargon that is used (primarily) as a strong pejorative description of some kind of attack that the speaker considers unfair—for example, an ad hominem attack or a smear campaign.

The term comes from the Swift Vets and POWs for Truth (formerly "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth") and their widely-publicized [1] attacks on 2004 Presidential candidate John Kerry...

Originally, terms like "swiftboating", "Swift Boating", "Swift Boat tactics", etc. were mostly used by people who disapproved of the Swift Vets and POWs for Truth. Others have strongly objected (see below) to the criticism of SBVT implied by such negative usage.

-snip-

The entire entry is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiftboating

mg, I hear your objection, and want you to know that I don't consider ALL those military personnel who served/serve as swiftboaters to be negative. Also, mg, I'm very sorry that this referent has taken on this negative connotation because of the group-the so-called "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth"- which I and quite a number of other folks consider to be extremely negative.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Nov 07 - 09:44 PM

I wonder what would happen if Bob Kerrey ran for President...after all, the Richard Nixon gave him the Medal of Honor and he lost his foot in 'Nam.

Not that they'd care...look at what Ann Coulter and Karl Rove did to Max Cleland, or Rove implying in the 2000 Presidential race that John McCain had been mentally affected (well, no shit!) by his stint at the Hanoi Hilton and was thus unfit to be President.

Rove knows so much about military service:

In December 1969, the Selective Service System held its first lottery drawing. Those born on December 25, like Rove, received number 84. That number placed him in the middle of those (with numbers 1 [first priority] through 195) who would eventually be drafted. On February 17, 1970, Rove was reclassified as 2-S, a deferment from the draft because of his enrollment at the University of Utah in the fall of 1969. He maintained this deferment until December 14, 1971, despite being only a part-time student in the autumn and spring quarters of 1971 (registered for between six and 12 credit hours) and dropping out of the university in June 1971. Rove was a student at the University of Maryland, College Park in the fall of 1971; as such, he would have been eligible for 2-S status, but registrar's records show that he withdrew from classes during the first half of the semester. In December 1971 he was reclassified as 1-A. On April 27, 1972, he was reclassified as 1-H, or "not currently subject to processing for induction". The draft ended on June 30, 1973.

I know a lot of guys, now dead, who would have liked a 1-H deferment....

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: GUEST,Slag
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 02:26 AM

Got a call from my erstwhile political party the other day. I had to tell them that there was nothing sadder than a millionaire many times over out begging contributions from pensioners and the like. I told them that win lose or draw their candidate would walk away still a millionaire ( many times over) and that win, lose or draw, my socio-economic situation wasn't likely to change one bit.

When was the last time someone ran who was willing to sacrifice their personal fortune because they really believed that they had an idea, a plan that would greatly benefit Americans, lift up the down-trodden, revamp and re-invigorate the economy, would stop exporting work away from US unionized labor, would really go whole heartedly after alternative energy sources, absolutely CLEAN UP

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 03:19 AM

Regrettably, a short stint teaching UK constitutional law coupled with a couple of lobbying attempts (one on format rights and the other on the Licensing Act 2004) have left me wholly clear that in the vast majority of cases, the only purpose of politics is to get elected and achieve and retain power, and that there is no "principle" that will not be abandoned and no lie that will go untold for that purpose. The truth is a total irrelevance. All that matters is one's own advantage.

The UK Labour party long abandoned any opposition to the viciousness of capitalism. The UK Conservative party is now on a number of issues, if not many, presenting itself as to the left of "New Labour" (but of course if elected would at once renege on any wefarist promises). The Lib Dems don't count.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Mud Slinging
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Nov 07 - 05:35 AM

Our current Prime Minister invented the term "non-core promises" to explain why some of his promises were not fulfilled.

Cartoonists & satirists have had fun with this expression.

And we have an election on Saturday & according to the polls, there is a good chance he will lose his seat, & his party will lose the election.