BS: Tattoos - why?

Subject: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 05:56 PM

I'm not a big fan of tattoos. I can see the point of a little flower or butterfly hidden away where it has to be discovered when you're intimate with someone. But large ornate designs that cover large areas of the body seem kind of silly to me. So if you're someone that has covered yourself with body art I'd love to hear why you did it. It just seems too permanent to me. How can you know that you're still going to love this design 20 years from now? Or that it will still look good at that place on your body? If it floats your boat - it's fine with me - I just don't understand it.

Also – two incidences made me wonder about tattoos. The first was a clerk at a natural foods store. As he's going on and on about how natural foods is the way to live a healthy life I couldn't help but notice that both arms were covered with tattoos. Plus I could see some poking out of his shirt on his neck and chest. Natural foods lifestyle and a body covered with tattoos. Does anyone see a dichotomy here? And then a few weeks ago we saw a white supremacist being interviewed on TV. He had his shirt off and he was covered with designs. My wife made an astute observation. She said "If he loves his white skin so much and thinks it's so superior – why is he trying to cover it up? He's almost the color of the people he hates."

Comments, observations, enlightenment?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:01 PM

Thet defile the human body, a work of art. I find them disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:09 PM

Trashy art for trashy people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:09 PM

I like them when done by really good artists. Lots of them are crap. But it seems odd that it matters to people who aren't into them.

Kind of like asking the ridiculously rhetorical: water skiing - why?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:14 PM

Not my cup of tea, either ~ but I hesitate to judge anyone just because their aesthetic sense differs from mine.

I find most non-earlobe piercings, and especially the hardware inserted into them, even more distasteful ~ but at least that crap is removable, and the holes will heal up in time. Tattoos, on the other hand, are forever (or nearly so).

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:24 PM

Never could see getting any. Helps the police identify you.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:28 PM

And the morgue. Don't forget your friendly neighborhood medical examiner.

But while we rhetorically spinning our wheels, I'd also like to know...

Men in pony tails - why? For gods sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:32 PM

I dunno. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:32 PM

Oh yeah, oh yeah and one more.

Billy Ray Cyrus - why?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:47 PM

Wow, not just the least little bit judgemental are we? I never knew I was so trashy.

My Rog, my son, daughter, and I all have tattoos. They are all in places which can be covered, save one on the inside of my left wrist. Most people never even notice it.

I still love my flowers twenty-eight years later. Sure they've stretched out but they are still pretty. I don't have huge full pieces, just a few flowers. Rog has an awesome dragon and some red roses. In his profession, if one wears a wedding ring, they have a good chance of losing a finger. When I met him, he showed me his roses on his right upper arm and said he meant to put his "true love's" name there some day. Later on that year, he told me he wanted my name there and that he would never wear a ring. I don't feel I "own" him or vice versa, but the commitment represented by each other's name tastefully tattooed on our upper arms, means a lot more, in a permanent way, than a wedding ring would ever have done.

I shake my head at the kids who get full pieces and put them all over their bodies. They don't understand if you are going to have them, they need to be where you can control the exposure. I like to watch Miami Ink and LA Ink, mainly to see the actual artwork, some of it is fantastic, but I DON'T like the multiple tats most of the young artists have...I guess it's partly a walking billboard type thing for them, but I wouldn't want it. One of the best things about those shows is the clients. If you watch them, you will learn we are not all trashy, trailer court in-breds.

Other than that, I would say there is a spirituality thing that goes with them, too, for some folks. This is quite evident in other cultures. We're just not as used to it in Western society. For some, like Rog and me, it is not something to do on a whim. It is a serious thing to consider, because of its permanency and because of its spiritual aspects. If you're not into, so what?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:47 PM

speaking of old tattoos, I once borrowed a book on tattoos from the library & saw many a pic of a very old tattoo on very old saggy skin.

So, every time I see a beautiful young person (male or female) with a beautiful large or small tattoo I also see the same tattoo in decades hence.

Years ago I met an 18 years old girl with a permanent 2" square of plaster over a tattoo she got one drunken night when she was 16 (it was illegal in the 70's to tattoo a minor so I dunno how she got it - maybe the artist was drunk too!) When laser removal of tattoos was heralded some years back I wondered if she finally got it removed.

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 06:53 PM

Generational thing, Wes. We baby boomers identified the tattoo thing with Uncle Jack who had a Betty Boop on his forearm, a heart-and-dagger on his bicep, and a little red banner with "Mona" on his wrist. These tattoos were usually smudgy and looked like they were done with a ballpoint pen. Plus, they had been done in some World War 2 port of call 30 years ago, so they looked as past their shelf-date as Uncle Jack.
Nowadays, the art is much more sophisticated and professional, and there just isn't the stigma we attached to it. One thing is probably still true, though...they'll all look like hell in 30 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:00 PM

I don't care if anyone gets one -- it's just not my cuppa.

My oldest nephew has one, the letters "USMC" in a scroll on his upper right bicep -- the standard Marine Corps issue sort. His fiancee said she was going to get one too, one that read "Booze, Boys, and Harleys" and he got really upset with her (she was kidding him).

Piercings, tattoos...just not my thing, but I don't care what others do.

And by the way, more than a few people got tattooed during the "Hippie Craze."

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:06 PM

Haven't read the above posts....

People who like tattoos see them as art. Body art. Expression. Celebration.

People who don't like them see them as self-mutilation.

These are 2 totally different paradigms, with each viewer thinking the other can-- and therefore ought to-- see it their way.

People are like that.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:12 PM

That's why I told my daughter when she wanted a tattoo: go find me a 50+ woman who got one when she was younger and is still glad, and it looks great, then we'll talk.

Haven't heard back since.

But, I'll let you know how mine turns out ; )

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:12 PM

I guess I am on the young end of the baby boomers, eh?:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM

Dani, cross-posted. I am 53, would that do? (Ya don't have to tell your daughter you've found one.**bg**)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:29 PM

LOL, Kat....I don't have one (yet?) but I know a LOT of 50 + women who do, and still love them. Our son has an incredible back piece...when it's finally finished I'll put a pic up at Flickr!

There are also religous reasons for them. Some people I know have them as markings of their 'rank' in their religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:31 PM

I'm still wondering about the old men in pony tail thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:40 PM

I can see the point of 'practical' tattoos - a couple of mates of mine were squaddies and had medical data (blood group etc.) tattooed.
I can understand commemorative tattoos and those those marking a commitment.
I can also understand the 'intimate' pieces, to be found by lovers.

What I don't get are some of the more (to my jaundiced eye) meaningless, often oversized (and, again IMHO, disfiguring) pieces.

I've nothing against people wanting tattoos, but show a little subtlty and originality, please.

As may be gathered, I don't have any tats.

W

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:41 PM

The ponytail? I had one for ten years because I was an ex-hippie that still wanted to let his "freak flag fly" as they say. I cut it off a year ago but it's still in a drawer upstairs. Why did I wear one? Women loved it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:50 PM

I'm working on an MA in Folklore in the graduate English Department at FSU and one of my very brilliant professors, David Kirby, recently worte an article on tattooing. You can read it here: David Kirby on Tattoos

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,harpgirl
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:52 PM

above is my post

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 08:12 PM

ABBY,

Great to hear your cybervoice penetrating the fog. I DO hope you and the kid are well. ---- It sure has been a long way less traveled from The Ark!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amos
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 08:15 PM

Obviously you guys have short memories and have forgotten Queequeeg, who was a full-body tatooee. Maori and other ancient peoples wore them with pride.

In modern society they are worn for the same reason people wear clever T-shirts or an earring...it makes a communication out of yourself, which is desirable for those who have lost confidence in their ability to communicate using other things.

The New York humorist whose name I forget once wrote "If people don''t walk to talk to you, what makes you think they'll want to hear from your shirt?" She put her finger on the issue, if in a nasty way -- the frustration and impotence of believing your communications don't get received makes it interesting to just "become" a message.

There's a better solution, of course--master rudimentary communication skills.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 08:52 PM

Or the Aleut and many other American Indian nations. Or the Polynesians. Or the Celts and Picts, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 09:33 PM

I had my 1st at the age of 12 & my last 2 at the age of 13, in my hood it was a thing all us kids did. (I only have a total of 3). So 44 yrs later I still dislike them but not near as much as I did after the 1st month of wearing them, truthfully, I don't care anymore. Always toyed with the idea of getting professional ones to cover up my home selfmade ones but once was enough. By the time lasar came around I didn't care enough to have them removed & it wasn't worth the cost to me. They haven't changed much over the yrs but I stopped wearing long sleeve shirts to hide them when I left my teen yrs behind.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 09:49 PM

I think in twenty years or sooner, no one will think of judging someone's character by the fact they have tattoos. Their taste in artists, maybe, as I have seen a lot of really crappy artwork on some lovely young skin. But they will have become so common, no one will take much note.

I know several women in their fifties and sixties who've gotten their first tattoo in the last couple of years.

I really wish people could be persuaded NOT to put Disney characters on themselves - I really dislike that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 10:17 PM

hg, too bad we can't read the whole article. It sounds as though he's changed his mind about tattoos?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: JennieG
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:50 AM

I don't have a tat because I am a coward......I was 30 years old when I plucked up enough courage to have my ears pierced (one hole in each lobe only) and by then I had already given birth!

Like some of the other posters above, whatever floats your boat - just because you don't fancy it for yourself doesn't make it evil on other folks.

And I sometimes wear a ponytail.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 01:55 AM

I have three tattoos....one was done with a guitar string...I was drunk...and will soon go get it covered....will get a harp put over it...

Also I have the ouroboros around each forearm....they were both done by the same artist....very tastefully done.

That being said I will have a few more done...but each one planned is spiritual in nature....not oh god that looks cool I should get one kind of crap.

Reputable artists will not put your partner's name on you...for they know that if you break up...you are stuck with it...

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:58 AM

The Daughter got one before Christmas. Tastefully done though quite big, hidden away unless she wants to show it off (only bits of it to me). Her choice, I wouldn't have one but then I'm not into body confidence like she is.

A few years ago a friend's daughter was having a garden party to celebrate graduation as a doctor. Elegant in a low- backed dress, showing off the discreet little Chinese character in the middle of her back. What does it say, I asked. Dunno, she replied.... you've had something tattooed on your back and you don't know what it says?????

We decided in the end it was probably Pat Pending.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Megan L
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:35 AM

One of Rapaires posts reminded me of a song.

"I don't know why I love you like I do
I don't know why, I just do
I don't know why you thrill me like you do
I don't know why, you just do "

It wid be a poor world if we were aw the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:54 AM

Why not? My body, my choice.
I don't tell balding, grey haired 60-plus-year-old hippies to "dump the stupid pathetic pony-tail", it's their right to do as they like with what hair they have left, so why should anyone else tell me not to have my tatts?
Strange, isn't it, that so many above, who live in The Land Of The Free, seem to object to the freedom of others to have tattoos, simply because they themselves 'don't like them'?
As McGrath said in another thread - "Let a hundred flowers grow...."

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:56 AM

because they want to,

that's a good enough reason.

each to their own

though I'm not a fine but c'est la vie the spice of life

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: TheSnail
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:25 AM

But what is the next generation going to do? There are children going up whose mothers are tattoed and pierced all over the place. How do you rebel against that?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:27 AM

Ah, PMB reminds me of something I read concerning one of the Spice Girls - can't remember which one, might have been the scary one or the sporty one....


She had tattooed on her upper arm, the Japanese character for what she thought was 'Women' as in wimmin, girl power, whatever....

Turns out it's very popular in Japan.

It's on every ladies toilet door...

Personally, I don't have any tattoos, I'm a coward when it comes to permanence and needles... besides, ain't enough ink in the world to cover my ass. I have no objections to anyone getting a tattoo (although if Limpit ever suggests one for her, I may be a bit less liberal) and I've seen some spectacular ones in my time. Then again, I've seen some that should have been rubbed out and started again...

They used to be a badge of the exotic, of the well travelled and of the tribal habits of man... these days, they're easily available and computer generated artwork. The profession has come out of the infectious, back street bars and into the bright, antiseptic shopping centre. Some of the artwork is incredible and I'd be happy to hang them on my wall as a picture, but to put them on my body permantently? Not for me thanks.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:49 AM

I suppose that the key fact about tattoos is that they are PERMANENT (lasers notwithstanding). If you have one done, and then change your mind, you're in trouble. I tend to view people with tattoos as 'fashion victims' who are incapable of thinking things through. Yes, I know that my attitude is judgemental but as I get older I get more and more impatient with slavish followers of fashion - why can't people think for themselves?

Whilst on the subject of tattoos, I occasionally see a bloke in our local shopping centre who's had his whole head tattooed - I bet it doesn't do his job prospects much good!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: JulieF
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:52 AM

I have a large celtic knot on my back which is very easily covered up.    I chose a place that the skin wound't strech or sag over and as I'm over 40 I don't think it will ruin my life.

It was to mark a point in my life when I had split from my partner of 20 years.   It was something about me that he didn't know.   It was something that might have surprised some people. It was mine to show or not show as I chose fit.    Nearly five years later.   I still like it a great deal.

I would be very wary of anything written. Certainly never any names. Could perhaps imagine getting something that is totally unique. If someone wrote a piece of music for me perhaps. maybe something around about the time I'm 50.

J

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:54 AM

Billy Connolly has the birthdate of his wife, Pamela Stephenson tattooed on his arm so he'll never forget it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 06:27 AM

Good point, JennieG. Once you've given birth, what can they do to hurt you ; )

Like the bumper sticker: "YOU can't scare me, I'VE got kids." Has stood me well in dealing with life.

I like the tattoo I saw of "DNR" over the heart of an elderly man who lifeguards at our local pool.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 07:26 AM

I know someone who has their rare blood group tattoed on his arm... good idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Micca
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 07:44 AM

I have 5 and all are of "religious" significance and the acquisition of each was a "rite of passage". 3 are connected with initiation and are a bonding with the Group or organization, they are Voluntary and not a "requirement (or even a suggetion)of membership" but the personal choice of each. The most "important" (and also the least visible) is a "badge of Rank" in the Order to which I belong, The most personal is the symbol of a very strong spiritual bond with a person. The positions on my person is such that they are visible both to me and others fom the front when my arms are raised in Ritual,(I am not sure about having symbols in places where I can not see them)
I had my first one done when I was already in my 50s. The Green man on my arm is the most elaborate, and the most difficult for one of them was convincing the tattooist that a certain sympol had to be outlined in a single stroke of the instrument without it being lifted fron the skin or a break in the line, the line was very thin and could be "bulked up" after but the initial figure had to be a single stroke!!!
All my Tattooings are and were a religious expierence, but it would not work for, or be desirable for, everyone. However I do not have, nor do I ever intend to acquire, ANY BODY PIERCINGS!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:17 AM

but Micca...look what august company you coud join!

Tattoos are relatively mild when you see some of the stuff done these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:53 AM

Someone once told me of a lad in Newcastle who belonged to a gang called the TAMS. He decided to tattoo the name on his own forehead and was surprised when people kept asking him what SMAT stood for (true story!).

I do have a couple of tasteful and beautifully done tattoos. Got the first one (a small rose on my shoulder) when I was 50 - mrsleveller had the same one done at the same time. Isn't that romantic?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:54 AM

I did a magazine cover of Compositan

the lead article was How to decorate your uterine walls.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 09:11 AM

I predict cosmetic surgury will be the 'your parents are gonna kill you!!!' wave of the future. You already see people getting under the skin implants in simple shapes - stars, triangles, circles, plus the little 'horns' a few have had placed on their foreheads. I foresee young ladies opting for a third breast when having implants done, or young men... nevermind...

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 09:27 AM

Or tongue slitting, or branding. Both of which have their devotees.

It all seems to me to be a great way to introduce yourself to infections of a most nasty type. Dentists HATE any mouth-related piercings for that very reason.

A young friend of mine had her navel pierced, and promptly got an ugly infection. (No, they managed to clear it up with antibiotics, she did not have it surgically removed.)

Which reminds me of an old joke:

"Doctor, I still can't believe I don't have a navel!"
"Yes, it's the most complete rejection of mother I've ever seen."

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:30 AM

Reputable artists will not put your partner's name on you...

Not true, Amergin. Some of the most reputable, well-known artists in the world will put a name on you. They will not if someone is drunk. They may be a bit discerning and really question you to make sure that's what you want, but ultimately they will do it.

Oh, and I was NOT doing mine as a fashion fad. In fact, when I got mine, hardly any women were getting them; esp. women who were not on the fringes of society.

Maybe my next one should be "this machine kills fascists?" **BG** Joking!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:34 AM

I know several people who should have their addresses tattooed about their persons, along with 'this way up when drunk'.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:49 AM

Guest, PMB -- that reminds me of when a friend was asked what her sign was. She replied, "Slippery When Wet".

I have tattoo fantasies, but no tattoos. There really isn't an appropriate place (and I'd like to be able to see it if I had it) that the"canvas" wouldn't stretch or shrink. Plus they're too permanent. Sometimes I can't even wear the same earrings all day...

My fantasy tattoo is a tasteful hippocampus with a graceful tail.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:02 AM

I certainly don't look down on folks with tattoos - I just don't understand their decision to get one. But I also don't understand why some folks watch golf or stockcar racing on TV.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: bobad
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:12 AM

I keep trying to convince a bald headed friend of mine to get a tattoo of a butt crack on his head but for some reason he's not keen on the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Becca72
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:20 AM

I have 3, I've had them for years and I did it for me and no one else. They are all in places that are not in plain site. I work for a hospital and am an upstanding member of society, not a "hooker or a hoodlum". I've even considered getting another one but am waiting to find the right one.

If you don't like them then don't get any. Very simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:43 AM

I don't think I'd get anything too realistic, and possibly not too symbolic since symbols change meaning over the years. I'd go with a decorative design such as ivy or celtic knotwork, but I think the plant life would win over knotwork. I know one concertina who got a lovely knot on his arm, then realized it matched his concertina ends. With me, I'd probably learn that I got a knot that was a symbol for stupidity. Ivy would be good, though. Like Bat Goddess, I find a diminishing number of places on my person that would be 1) somewhere I'd want to dispay, and 2) had a reasonable chance of maintaining basic shape. An ear, side of neck, hand or wrist, foot or ankle, or maybe one around my hairline... oy.

The fact that I haven't gotten a tattoo is solely based on the fact I can't make up my mind what to get or where to get it. I love looking at other people's tattoos the way I love looking at any art. If people have them prominently displayed, I don't mind asking about them and many I've asked enjoy showing them.

Wesley, in your first post, you said, "Natural foods lifestyle and a body covered with tattoos. Does anyone see a dichotomy here? "

I don't. Both could be about controlling what goes in or on one's body, both could be about asserting individuality. I have enough unintentional 'body modifications' (scars of various sorts, freckles and age-related melanin oddities, wrinkles etc) that making one or more on purpose doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 11:51 AM

It just seems that injecting ink under the skin doesn't seem natural to me. As I said it's fine for others - just not for me. I don't look down on the guy that did it. I'm just curious about his thought process.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:02 PM

Wesley, I don't think most who have one actually *think* of it as "injecting ink under the skin" no more than an artist might think of painting as plastering oil on a canvas. The motivation is in the vision, the spiritual meaning, the beauty, etc. The mechanics of it just are.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 12:28 PM

Kat - I guess I'm thinking more about the process rather than the result. I'm not fond of needles and see them as a necessary evil for medical purposes only.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:01 PM

There are children going up whose mothers are tattoed and pierced all over the place. How do you rebel against that?

No problem. You don't go in for that sort of thing. Rebellion, but without having to suffer the pain.

What's always struck me as strange is that tattooing is so common amomg people who must know they by their life styles that a tattoo might land them in jail someday by identifying them as perpetrators of some villainy or other. You'd think it'd just be lawabiding citizens who'd run the risk of tattoing an identification mark on their body. A bit like using a car with a persoanlised number plate to carry out a bank raid.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 02:30 PM

It's mostly just on television that bad guys are identified by their tattoos. In real life, most bad guys who have tattoos don't have unique ones where anyone can see them. They are more likely to have generic 'I'm a macho idiot' tats, such as flaming skulls and daggers and such.

I apologise to anyone reading who has such a tat and is NOT a macho idiot, but the two have gone together in my experience. Oh, and I understand some people do love them some Harleys, but still, having a corporate logo tattooed on your person is just going too far for brand loyalty, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 03:00 PM

Gee golly gosh. I did not expect the PMs!

Okay. I can get with the work of art or the statement, but, to defile a work of art to do so... sorry, I just can't get with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Dan Keding
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:42 PM

Neighbors,

There are so many reasons that someone has a tattoo that it becomes impossible to stereotype - though most people would be happy if it was this simple. Historically it is one of the older art forms and was found in many cultures as a way to decorate the body, or show tribal or religious affiliation. Among sailors it was used to identify where they had been or their own personal likes and dislikes, to pass away the time on long voyages, etc. I have two tattoos - a large Celtic knot on one shoulder and Japanese kanji on the other. Few people ever see them because I didn't have them put there for other people but for myself. Many other folks who are tattooed have had it done because they consider it art or to make a statement or to celebrate a significant event or period in their lives. I know more than one person who has tattoos in order to reclaim their bodies after horrible childhood abuse.

I have one friend who has extensive tattoos and he is a university professor with a doctorate. Even though I only have a master's degree I haven't robbed a bank in years. :) We have to be careful not to fall prey to our society's fondness for looking at a person and immediately judging them on how they look not who they are.

Take care,

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 04:55 PM

Natural foods lifestyle and tattoos - maybe the lentil eating came after the tattoos....? A radical change in lifestyle isn't uncommon. Many people who get tattooed or pierced in their early lives may live to regret their lifestyles and choose to walk a different path. If that path is to lead a simpler, healthier life then to undergo further surgery to remove the tattoos may be contradictory.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:11 PM

"There are children going up whose mothers are tattoed and pierced all over the place. How do you rebel against that?"

... reminds me of Sara Lee Guthrie talking about growing up in the Guthrie household, where she rebelled the only way she could... She went to college!

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:44 PM

I have 3. The first one I got in 1984, Utah Phillips and I were on the way to Chicago to record the IWW album for Flying Fish. He got me to get a rose(actually a double rose)so as to intiate me in the Brotherhood of the Rose Tattoo(Sisterhood also now). We'd been drinking with one of the locals at the Missoula Club who wanting to bust my chops inequired why didn't I have a tattoo. I replied that it was because I couldn't afford one. He said would I get one if he put in 5 bucks, I said sure. We had had a bit to drink, so by the time we got to the tattoo parlor Utah and he were going to split the cost. Unfortunately I couldn't get them to spring for the large rose I really wanted. The other 2, I traded guitar lessons for the screaming eagle with a banner that reads "Mors Ante Servitium"(Death Before Employment), and the other, a smoking steam engine with the first five notes of "Hallulujah I'm A Bum" coming out of the stack in the smoke I trade a couple of my CD's for it.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:55 PM

My kids (now 30, 28, & 24) never showed any interest in so-called "body art," and Mom and I are glad of it. They each have their peculiarities, but none of them ever seemed to go overboard (in either direction) to "rebel" against their ex-hippie parents.

One fairly surprising exception: the older son and middle child, who was the only family member not living in New Orleans when Katrina hit, got a fleur-de-lis with the caption "NOLA" (for New Orleans, LA) tattooed on his shoulder shortly after the catastrophe.

He had gone about a week not knowing whether the rest of us were dead or alive, and in many ways took the expereince much harder than the rest of us, who were busy driving around the country trying to decide what to do while he was stuck in New York sitting still and worrying. He went to the tattoo parlor with several friends from back home, all with the same purpose in mind (i.e., same kind of tats, not necessarily identical but all New-Orleans-themed).

He does not regret it at all, but on the other hand does not seem to have any inclination to add any more tattoos.

So, I can see how a tattoo can sort of commemorate a particular life-changing event...

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 05:57 PM

Very creative, Mark!

Dan, thanks for your comments. Spot on!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:41 PM

Had mine done in Portsmouth as a young sailor. Never regretted it. The most painful part of it was from the frying pan the day my mother seen them. God Bless her !

Why did I get them done ? It was part of the uniform for sheep like me.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 09:50 PM

PoppaGator, that's a nice tattoo story, and illustrative of the kind of reason many people have for getting tattoos.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:11 PM

My friend Peggy, who's five months younger than I am, had a lighthouse tattooed on her ankle to celebrate her divorce and return to her maiden name.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:40 AM

I should say when Rog and I had our names done it was after we'd been to his best friend's wedding which put us in mind of our early "wedded bliss" which hadn't been that long ago. It was a commitment we'd made and the timing seemed right to commemorate the day.

Poppa, thanks for sharing. That's neat.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 04:18 AM

My mother's generation frowned on tattos and transferred that to me. The thing about them is their permanence. Marriage committments are more about people rather than outwards signs and I doubt a tattoo would keep people together, it would need tenacity and tolerance.

As a friend told me quoting an ex husband as it happens "you are never naked with a tattoo" - she doesn't have one (AFAIK).

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 04:58 AM

Let us not forget there are still people around today for whom a tattoo was a sign of oppression, suffering and pain.

Oddly enough, it was brought home in the X-Men movie, The Last Stand. Magneto is confronted by a group of tattooed 'mutants' and asked where his 'mark' is. He rolled up his sleeve to show his Auschwitz number and says 'I already have one tattoo, I don't need another' (or something like that).

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 05:22 AM

I have always fancied getting one on the upper arm - Probably an anchor with a red rose entwined - But I agree that it may look bad in later life. Which is why I am waiting till I am 60!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 05:27 AM

Or it might have been the second movie, it's been a long time since I watched it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 11:24 AM

Marriage committments are more about people rather than outwards signs and I doubt a tattoo would keep people together, it would need tenacity and tolerance.

True, I cannot think of a time when I looked at mine and thought "Hm...can't leave him even if I wanted to!" FWIW, I have seriously considered it a few times! It would have in no way diminished my long term love of him, regardless, so the tattoo would be an historical reminder if that were to ever happen, just as it will if he passes on before I do.

It is a sign of commitment and there has been a lot of tolerance and tenacity. This year marks our 28th anniversary and 29th year of living together. NOT because of the tattoo, but it has been a nice symbol, to us, of our commitment. (There's that word, again.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 11:54 AM

In the movie "Eastern Promises" there are scenes explaining that in the Russian mafia that tattoos are a way of showing your criminal history to the world. For instence a church on your back shows you've been in prison - the number of spires on the church shows how many times you've been there. Very interesting movie.

I'm not trying to compare tatoos to criminal activity however.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:00 PM

I think the link between criminals and tattoos is always going to be there, it's just the perspective of the criminal act that differs.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:08 PM

True, LtS. Your other point was a good one, too. I met a man, once, who had an ID number on his forearm from being a prisoner in Germany during WWII. It was quite an oddity in our little corner of Colorado in those days.(I was about thirteen.) I remember he had a strong accent and there were some people who thought, cynically or not, he may have been a Nazi who had it put on, post-war, to cover his tracks, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: lady penelope
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 02:18 PM

I'm always amazed by the attitudes of people who don't like tattoos. Basically this is simply a matter of taste and, as we all know, people's tastes vary wildly.

Personally, I got my first tattoo when it was frowned upon for girls/young women to have tattoos.
I didn't get tattooed to stand out from the crowd (my first tat went on my right shoulder blade and is therefore mostly out of sight).
I didn't get a tattoo to rebel against my parents (they were very much of the opinion that it was up to me to do what I wanted and to accept the consequences of my actions).
I didn't get tattooed as a fashion statement.

My tattoos are very much a form of self expression. The same way as we decorate our homes, build houses, grow gardens. But these things were not personal enough for me, not permanent enough for me. Several people have gone on about tattoos being forever, what if you don't like them in 20 years time?

By the gods I hope they're bloody permanent, that was the whole point! I've seen many people with tattoos older than I am and even the dreadful blurry blue things that were gotten whilst in the navy or prison, have a certain beauty 40 years later. It describes a life. And whilst other find them meerly ugly, I see them as part of the life of the person in front of me.

But that being said. I have never simply walked into a tattoo parlour and pointed at a piece of flash on the wall and said "I'll have that one". All my pieces are custom done.

I've had many people ask me to give them advice on having tattoos and the first thing I ask is what design do they want to have done. Those that answer that they don't know, I tell them not to bother. If they don't have a design in their head that they need to be on their skin, they don't want a tattoo.

At the end of the day, the answer to the question "Tattoos - why?" is as simple as "Why not?" For those whose eyes are offended by such things, well, it's tough really. Unless you advocate a totalitarian state where the thought police tells us how to dress, walk, talk etc. there's not really a whole heap you can do about it. Get over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 04:31 PM

If they don't have a design in their head that they need to be on their skin, they don't want a tattoo.

Yes! And to the other stuff you wrote, too.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Megan L
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 04:34 PM

Lady P the only tatoo I am intrested is the wan in Edinburgh mind you even that wid be better if the moved it tae Glasgow. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Micca
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 05:38 PM

oops, Megan, you would need A LOT of skin to get that one all on it!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Megan L
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 05:41 PM

Micca dear I have more than ample LOL

GIOK SHUT IT

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 06:11 PM

Don't like them myself .... amazingly (to me) only one of my three kids has a tattoo -- the eldest.....the day she had it done, she came in to tell me and ask me if I would like to see it. i said NO. She asked why was I being 'like that' - she had, after all, confessed to me so I should wrap her in my arms and forgive her. I pointed out that I didn't like them before I knew she had one and didn't like them after!!!!!!! And -- seeing as I was paying for everything in her life at that point as she was in college, I thought perhaps I was giving her in excess if she could AFFORD the damn thing........

But it is up to the individual -- our local coffee shop chef is gloriously tattooed from shoulder to wrist on both arms and it works for him......not my cup of tea though.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: folk1e
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 10:30 AM

There is a folk song about a fair which includes a verse of the "Tatooed Lady"?
The "mine" could have been Mosley Common!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 10:36 AM

Ah, yes,

I went to town to see
That old Tattooed Lye-dee
She was a sight to see
Tattooed from head to knee.

My Uncle Ned was there
He came to gape and stare
I've nevah he declared
Seen such a freak so fair.

And on her jaw was the Royal Flying Corps
And on her back was a Union Jack
Now could you ask for more?

All up and down her spine
Was the Queen's own guard in line
And all around her hips
Sailed a fleet of battleships.

And over her left kidney was a bird's eye view of Sydney
But what we liked best was upon her chest,
A little home in Waikiki.

What did you say?

Repeat from beginning.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Emma B
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 11:28 AM

"Oh, roll up, roll up, see the tattoed lady,
See the lovely lady with the pictures on her skin."
In went the lads and they began to cheer,
For tattooed on her skin was all the towns of Lancashire.
There was Adstall Bottom, Manchester City,
The town hall was standing in the square.
There was Oldham, Bolton, Ashton-under-Lyne,
Coal pit up at Bardsley was looking mighty fine,
When someone shouted, "Daddy, don't go down the mine!"
At the Rawtenstall Annual Fair.

RAWTENSTALL ANNUAL FAIR

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 05:43 PM

John Roberts has a lovely version of the above on one of his CDs.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bert
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 06:17 PM

My Dad used to sing

All over me, all over me
ships of war, Easter eggs
Indian ink all down me legs
I'm just like a picture gallery
you ought to see the sights of London
All over me.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jan 08 - 06:29 PM

Still can't read this lyric without hearing it in Groucho's voice.

LYDIA, THE TATTOOED LADY
(E.Y. Harburg)

Oh Lydia, Oh Lydia
Now have you met Lydia
Lydia the tattooed lady
She has muscles men adore-so
And a torso even more-so
Oh, Lydia, Oh Lydia
Now have you met Lydia
Lydia the queen of tattoo
On her back is the battle of Waterloo
Beside it the wreck of the Hesperus too
and proudly above waves the red white and blue
You can learn a lot from Lydia

There's Grover Walen unveilin' the Trylon
Over on the West Coast we have Treasure Island
There's Captain Spaulding exploring the Amazon
And Lady Godiva--but with her pajamas on
She can give you a view of the world in tattoo
If you step up and tell her where
Mon Paree, Kankakee, even Perth by the sea
Or of Washington crossing the Delaware.

Oh Lydia, Oh Lydia, now have you met Lydia
Lydia the queen of them all
She has a view of Niagara which nobody has
And Basin Street known as the birthplace of jazz
And on a clear day you can see Alcatraz!
You can learn a lot from Lydia!
--Lydia the queen of tattoo!

Lydia, oh Lydia, have you met
Lydia, the queen of them all!
She once knocked an admiral off of his feet,
The ships on her hips made his heart skip a beat.
And now the old man is in command of the fleet,
For he went and married Lydia!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 01:23 AM

Never had one, never wanted one. I once sat in a tattoo parlour while a platoon mate had a black panther done on his upper arm, with 'bloody' scratches under its claws. I wondered then, "Why?"

Popular here is 'prison' tats, homemade on the left arm and hand (Right arm for the left-handed) done by the sort of people McGrath mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 03:33 AM

I guess the main thing is Wesley, is that everyone's reasons are different, situation, beliefs, needs, wants, holistic, love, addiction to being tattoed, because they want to tick the box, they were drunk, they've always always wanted one. Tribal, gangs, clubs, family names remembered etc.

there's a plethora reasons, as far as I can think I just say, each to their own and it would be a life time study to find out why, and you'd end up with a multitude of explanations.

Regards
EWIS.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: theleveller
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 03:35 AM

It used to be a class thing - only 'working class' people had tattoos. Now, thankfully, it's lost that stigma. Ear-piercing went the opposite way. I had mine done in 1973 when it was considered very 'cool'and radical. Then, when every soccer thug in the country started wearing an earring, I took mine out. In recent years I've started wearing it again - to go with my tattoos - as a celebration that 'class' demarcations are (or should be) a thing of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mr Red
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 05:29 AM

katlaughing
but it has been a nice symbol, to us, of our commitment

maybe that should have been my point - it is a personal statement to oneself - or twoself perhaps.

In New Zealand the tattoo is more acceptable because it is part of the the Mauri culture and they are a proud race. So it has few negative conotations.

I still don't like the idea of me having one. I can wear red or not wear red as a personal statement. Not everyone thinks that highly of being sartorially rouge but mostly they are amused.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mark Ross
Date: 28 Jan 08 - 09:47 AM

A friend of mine says his girlfriend has a tattoo of a seashell on her inner thigh. When he lays his head on it he can smell the ocean.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 04:28 AM

eiw!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 04:56 AM

Oh dear.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 08:53 AM

As a Pensioner with a pony tail who did a lot of water skiing in his youth , I dont see the point of tattoos either !

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 08:54 AM

But I DO like 100th posts

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Jan 08 - 12:59 PM

To paraphrase the thread title:

100th post - why?


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 30 Jan 08 - 12:35 AM

Because -- that's why!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM

Like my friend's daughter, if you have a tattoo done, make sure you know what it says!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 06:30 PM

Pub I used to play at; young woman pulled down the back of her jeans as low as she dared to display the top of the coat-of-arms of Wales on one side and that of Scotland on the other. I asked her if I was correct in assuming that was England in the middle ...

(All in fun, folks).

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 08 Feb 08 - 06:35 PM

We all have choices to make in life...who is to say who is right and who is wrong.....as whatever choices we make....we have to live with them. I have one tattoo and I love it!
Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 03:38 PM

Q , calling people who have tattoos trashy is a bit over the top, don't you think? My daughter has them, a dear friend, Utah Phillips, has one, and he also has a pony tail. Trashy does not apply to either of these fine people.
Utah invited me to jon the Rose Tattoo but I would need a Rose tattoo on my arm. I'm still thinking about it. I'm not trashy now, and if I get the tattoo I won't be trashy then either.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Becca72
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 04:06 PM

2 of Kendall's daughters have them, in fact...and neither of us are trashy by any stretch

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Feb 08 - 07:39 PM

I think Judge Q owes you an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 03:34 AM

Calling someone who has a tattoo, "Trashy", says far more about the speaker than his/her target, Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: kendall
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 07:08 AM

Well, I think we have all had diarrhea of the mouth at one time or another.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amergin
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 11:47 PM

I guess I am trashy...I have both ears pierced...did them both myself...and three tattoos and plan on getting more....hmmm yep I am trashy all right...

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:07 PM

Sorry folks but I really had to post this one :)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:34 PM

He looks two-faced to me......

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:50 PM

Abraham Lincoln once said, "I have been accused of being two faced. Now, I ask you, if I were two faced, would I be wearing this one"?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 01:20 PM

I'm thinking of having my knuckles tattooed with the words "FOLK" on the left hand and "ROCK" on the right.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 08:17 AM

"Well, I think we have all had diarrhea of the mouth at one time or another."

I plead 'Guilty But Insane', M'Lud!! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: bobad
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 10:11 PM

20 Tattoos You Don't Want To Get (If You're A Girl)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Janie
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 11:03 PM

I like LEJ's comments, from back in January, '08.

I don't like tatoos and find them unattractive, however well done they are. However, I think that is very, very much a generational thing. We have had interesting conversations among psychotherapists at one of the clinics where I work, and where there is a significant age span among us. I think there has been a cultural shift in the West and that the younger generations will not rue their tatoos as they get older - because they will be so common.

The internet and global communications that have exposed the Western World much more extensively to other cultures has affected the aesthetic of younger generations. A tatoo no longer carries the negative implications about lifestyle and wayward youth that it once did in Western culture.   Notions of beauty, and notions of ornamentation certainly vary from culture to culture, and from generation to generation. One observation I will make, however, is that in most cultures where scarification and tatooing are historically common, they also have a deeply cultural context and meaning beyond purely personal ornamentation. The adoption of these practices in the West, especially when some one is heavily tatooed, has no embedded cultural context and it seems to me to be a reflection of the increasing positive sanctioning of narcissism within our culture, as opposed to being a significant expression of the traditional elements and symbols of a culture. That is a pretty broad statement for me to make, I realize, and I want to make clear I am saying this in a very general sense.

I have had a few young clients who are very heavily tatooed, who have a history of intentionally inflicting physical pain on themselves as a way to cope with emotional pain. While they generationally like and desire the body-art, there is also an element of psychopathology involved in that they only get tatoos when they are in a lot of emotional pain, and substitute the pain of the tatoos for scratching, cutting, or burning themselves with cigarettes. Most people are not covered from stem to stern with tatoos, and I do not imply that all of those who are experience significant psychopathology.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Alice
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 11:19 PM

I read a blog recently by a woman who had a biker tattoo artist put a lower back tattoo on her... and one also on her teenage daughter, not knowing until later that the location is called a "tramp stamp" or "California license plate" and quote "a text book definition of low-rent hoochie mama if I ever saw it".

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 03:03 PM

There are fine tattooed human skins preserved from prehistoric times in the Altai mountains & Otzi the Iceman (3,300 BCE) was tattooed.

Tramp stamp? Trashy art for trashy people?

Come on you chaps - what sort of attitude is that to take to your fellow human beings and their ever fascinating vernacular culture and folklore?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Goose Gander
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 03:19 PM

Where I live, it unfortunately has become very popular among youngish men and women (mid-twenties to early thirties) to cover themselves head to toe with garish tattoos. And I mean head to toe . . . even face tattoos. Where do they get the money for all this?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 03:39 PM

This is almost a music thread

Courtesy of Richard Thompson:


She's got everything a girl might need
She's a tribal animal, yes indeed
But she doesn't have a bone through her nose, through her nose
She doesn't have a bone through her nose!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 08:22 PM

Skin tattoos are for wimps and losers on a budget. Even those beautiful Japanese paintings or tattooed pictures that resemble great art, pale in comparison to the deep Tattoo.

A Deep TATTOO that makes a true bold statement and is done directly to the the organs like the heart, liver and kidneys. Not only do they hurt like hell but they are far more life threatening.
Besides its whats inside that counts.

;<)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Joe_F
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 08:37 PM

I agree with Shimrod: They have the charm of irreversibility, like street mailboxes, marriage (in the old days), and death.

I don't have or want one, but on other people they amuse & even attract me. As a rule, anything that would have been mildly shocking in my adolescence (1950s) is sexy.

In those days, it was a fairly reliable rule of thumb that if a man had a tattoo, he got it while in the service, and was drunk at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 08:40 PM

Donuel, I know someone who has one in his colon, does that count?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 09:45 PM

sure, that counts.

Gerbil scars do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Effsee
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 11:12 PM

Just a thought, from a highly respected Scots Micro biologist working in the Us:-...

"I'm not too concerned with the aesthetics of tattoos, it's the health risks which worry me...a tattoo is little more than a sterile needle injecting an unsterile metal oxide pigment under the skin...and, in my view, a nasty trick to play on an immune system. Putting a non-native substance into the body triggers an immune response...in rare cases it can trigger an _auto_immune response and then look out...autoimmune responses can't be turned off and they don't go away.

Moreover, most people don't know what questions to ask, such as "What carrier solution do you use for the ink?" Some of the "artists" use ethylene glycol or aldehydes instead of glycerin because the former spreads the ink better. The problem is that those substances...which are toxic/hazardous enough in and of themselves... when combined with the topical alcohol used to sterilise the skin, become synergistic biochemical promoters which can cause cellular mutation in tissues _other_ than the tattoo site.

Additionally, while the needles can be heat sterilised, the pigments themselves _can't_ be owing to their composition...Cadmium, Chromium, Cobalt, Lead, and Mercury are still used in some places and they can be seriously nasty customers...you don't need to be a chemist to know injecting any of them into the body (even subcutaneously) is probably not the most health conscious thing one can do.

People seem to think hepatitis or HIV are the primary risks in tattooing...they're not by a long chalk, they're merely the ones people understand easily...the _real_ danger lies in the less well-known biochemical, physiological risks. Every successful tattoo is a biochemical bullet dodged and every unsuccessful one is life forever changed. In my eyes, it's just not worth it."

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:48 AM

I don't understand tattoos, and speaking only for myself, would never get one.

Please don't read this as a criticism of people who do have tattoos, because it ain't.

After hemming and hawing for years I had both ears piercedlast year. It didn't look too bad while the studs were still in. However, when the holes had healed enough for rings to go in, my daughter told me I looked a right prat.

I haven't worn anything in my earlobes since.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:05 AM

I'd rather like something in the style of a mediaeval woodcut - especially as it would translate so well in black ink.

Or perhaps one of those fabulously delicate botanical illustrations.

I have no objection to any way that another person chooses to ornament him or herself. I love drama and quirkiness and exhibition. Though sometimes the lack of imagination amongst those who *do* go to great lengths to decorate themselves, is my greatest complaint. Even so, it's really none of my business.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 09:24 AM

Something that may be of interest regarding this thread ... King George V had one ... got it when he was just a lowly Duke serving as a midshipman in the Royal Navy .... he acquired it from some famous Japanese tattoo artist when visiting Japan.

Tattoos were quite fashionable (even with the female gender) with the upper class back in the late Victorian and Edwardian age.

BiLL ... who has sports a tattoo on my bicep , but never was a sailor, duke or a king

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:37 PM

Large ornate tattoo placed to distract from a mastectomy. It is one quite individualised and lovely way to cover the scars and missing breast. Some women chose tattoo coverage rather than reconstruction.

an example

I think that is stunning.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:44 PM

Yes!

I saw a beautiful example of a single mastectomy scarring, ornamented by a tattoo of deep green twining ivy leaves.

Very moving. And I found it sensual even erotic.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:46 PM

People get them for the same reason we used to wear long shaggy hair and wear old army jackets or navy peacoats with bluejeans; when you are young and frustrated, turning your body into a symbol is a way to communicate to the world they can't shut up. Being a symbol is much less important once you learn to communicate to others, but that takes some folks longer than others.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 04:54 PM

"Being a symbol is much less important once you learn to communicate to others,"

But some people don't need to be a "symbol", some people just need to be what they are.

Sometimes that's a colourfully decorated individual, who prefers not to confine their inward impulses to conform outer expectations.

And sometimes that's to be an ashtray or pony or shit eater behind closed doors, whilst being paid for wearing a judges wig in court in the outer world..

It's been quite easy for the latter for a long time. While the former have had more of an uphill struggle.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:02 PM

Is there a chance that some people just want to be stared at?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:04 PM

Odd that Amos, because I was never interested in having a tattoo when I was a disaffected youth. But I have been thinking about it for that last 8 years or so.

I am quite smitten with runes, so if I have it done, it will be a rune that most fits me. Where to be placed? I don't know yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:04 PM

"Is there a chance that some people just want to be stared at?"

For sure!
Never seen a paper, the TV or a film?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:29 PM

Well, I have nothing against people jollying themselves up with tattoos, body piercings or bones. But my sense is that doing such things is an effort to communicate something. May be it is entirely subjective what that communication is.

For my own personal part, I am happy to demonstrate who I am by what I say and do, and don't feel like using my own body as an art medium, but, on the other hand, I was always very impressed with QueeQueeg in Moby Dick.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:36 PM

I differ as to the presumption that any decoration, is directed at an *observer*.

I used to 'dress up' when depressed & single - putting on clothes and make-up, in the full knowledge that I was staying home alone that night. It made me feel good because, I enjoyed the process of ornamentation. I was also pretty good at dancing alone, for no-one's benefit than my own. It didn't last long because I'm also good at going out too, but the need to be 'me' and decorate or dress in my own way, was equally important *solo or in company*.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 05:52 PM

You can't see mine ... as I never wear a tank top. It's just a personal symbol.

I still wear worn jeans and yes ... I also wear a navy peacoat in the winter.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 06:51 PM

"But some people don't need to be a "symbol", some people just need to be what they are."

I appreciate people who know who they are, and what they are ... young or old .... seems to many too many people are just too restrained ... people of such expression or eccentricities in their garb, hairstyles, or even tattoos make the world a rather interesting place ... they add colour the drab of seeing everyone dressed in golf shirts, pressed khakies, nikes, track pants and pink wall mart blouses.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 07:02 PM

My, my, my.

What an awful lot of opinionated judgement I see here!

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 07:07 PM

:D

Well, I will confess I have seen very few tatoos I didn't like--I just don't have one or plan for one myself. I've seen a few I didn't care for. Last weekend I saw one sported by a retired Marine who had had a rough separation from his first wife and then developed a very strong and stable relationship with another woman. The tattoos consisted of the first wife's name on his right shoulder with a red "V O I D " stamp later tattooed over it.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 08:15 PM

I LOVE it!

Amos, maybe you'll see mine next week....

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Alice
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 08:19 PM

I can appreciate the aesthetics of good tattoo artistry. Back in the '90's I did a series of tee shirt illustrations based on tattoo styles and did a lot of research on images from around the world.

In the final analysis, though, I see the danger of infection, hepatitis, HIV, and as Effsee noted, "..the _real_ danger lies in the less well-known biochemical, physiological risks. Every successful tattoo is a biochemical bullet dodged and every unsuccessful one is life forever changed."

I have enough health problems just from natural aging without risking more like that. Besides, I've been through so many changes in my life, it's been like a series of different lives and I don't want anything on me that is permanent. Whatever I would have picked at 25, I can tell you I probably would not want on me now.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: sing4peace
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:37 PM

I had to laugh at the earlier description of the natural food worker with the arms full of tattoos. That could have been my son-in-law. He is a grocery manager at a health foods store. He is very health conscious and has nonetheless chosen to get full "sleeves" tattooed on his body. When I first met him I had to make a conscious effort not to be distracted by his body art. I eventually got over my first impression and have come to love Mark for the sweet, intelligent person he is.

For the record: I'm over 55 and I still love my tattoos. I have two or four tattoos, depending on how you are counting. That is because one of them consists of three stars in the configuration of the constellation, Aries, which I got to commemorate my March born daughter's 18th birthday.

The other tattoo (my first) I got for my 33rd birthday. Ano de Christo (the age of Christ at death). I had a white rose tattooed on my right shoulder. The white rose was meant to commemorate a group of German students, professors and soldiers who were organizing against Hitler. In 1942, they were arrested, tried and beheaded for disseminating leaflets denouncing national socialism. I feel very strongly about my life as an anti-war activist and wanted something permanent to remind me of why I do what I do.

My mother's reaction when she saw my white rose was to ask me why I wanted to be part of a lampshade.

I am concerned about the long term health effects of my son-in-law's extensive tattoo work. Tattoos are scars and as such, do not breathe. I have read reports that people with a lot of tattoo work experience a significant decrease in life expectancy. I had not previously read about the auto-immune connection referred to in "FC"'s post above. I will definitely give that some research attention.

My son-in-law certainly helped me to face my own prejudices and I'm grateful for that. All in all, I feel that our bodies are our own to decorate as we see fit. We are the ultimate canvas. Some folks grow their hair long, some cut it short, some dye it blue, some get pierced, some grow mustaches and beards. It's all good.

I'm more concerned about what is inside of a person's mind and heart than I am about what they are wearing over their skin or under it.

Off now to google "tattoos"+"auto-immunity".
Peace to you, inked or not,
Joyce

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 10:53 PM

I shall make a note of it, and if it is a good note, I shall make a song of it...



A

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 02:52 AM

I too have worn jeans and my only winter coat is navy pea coat.

And the other day on the way home from work, saw a young black man (15 -17 years old) sporting a full afro. It was wonderful.

When I am an old woman, I shall wear purple,

and big floppy hats,
and stripey knee socks
and combat boots with red and yellow flames painted on.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 04:26 AM

I was reminded recently that I had earrings. "Oh - two earrings," said the glazier's boy come to fix our back window. "Two earrings?" replied I. "In your left ear," quoth the young fellow. "Ah yes," said I, "They've been there since - well a wee while now anyway." Just two silver hoops which I've had for more than twenty years; I never bother them and they never bother me, or anyone else as far as I can tell, but the glazier's boy noticed them as he'd just had his (ear) pierced and wanted to talk about it.

Last year we had a Lancastrian heating engineer who was covered in impressive Maori-style tattoos which would appear to very popular right now. I showed him my book with the tattoo from an Siberian chieftain's arm circa 500 BCE (Frozen Tombs - The Culture and Art of the Ancient Tribes of Siberia, British Museum, 1978) and he was very impressed. Similar things can be seen HERE.

I didn't realise Mudcatters were such a bunch of nannying self-righteous nerdy gossips (well I did but it always alarms me to see evidence of it) - I did try a while back there, so it's heartening to see the usual inspirational sense from CS and VT though. You'd really think folkies would delight in such cultural wonderments & idiosyncratic manifestations of vernacular folklore - and, dare I say, tradition?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 04:54 AM

I have an ouroboros tattooed around each fore arm...I also have both ears pierced....Once I am employed again and have money behind me again....will be getting more.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mooh
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 10:34 AM

Over 50, and often I've had hair long enough for a ponytail. Always wanted a tattoo, so I have one planned, and prepaid with a generous gift certificate, my appointment being soon. The design will be a family symbol with a trillium. What I dislike about tattoos are the skulls, violence, death, and dismemberment themes that seem so popular. Body art should reflect peace, love, joy, faith, hope, charity, nature, family, commitment...positive things.

In another aberration, I sometimes wear socks with sandals.

Oh, the humanity!

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Alice
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:08 AM

nannying?
We are all talking about our own choices. And we are each unique and individual in whatever those choices are, adorned or unadorned. I don't see any nannying in this thread, just people talking about their own point of view and experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: number 6
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:09 AM

Good one Mooh !

Exactly.

My tatto is a chosen symbol that is there to remind me to always keep the faith in myself and humanity.

Just because we get older does not mean we have to lose that spark of youth and become cynical.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Sep 09 - 11:25 AM

" What I dislike about tattoos are the skulls, violence, death, and dismemberment themes that seem so popular. Body art should reflect peace, love, joy, faith, hope, charity, nature, family, commitment...positive things."

"Just because we get older does not mean we have to lose that spark of youth and become cynical."

No, but are you two perhaps getting just a bit PRESCRIPTIVE? I can never see what anyone wants a tattoo for — but those who like them should surely be at liberty to chose them to please themselves & not to reflect someone else's PC preoccupations.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Alice
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 11:45 AM

Here is a website with photos and the caption "These are the tattoos where you just can't help but ask the person WHY!?!"photo archive of bad tattoos

Some of them are tattoos with spelling errors, like Your Mine instead of you're mine. Yesterday I was looking at a case of costume jewelry in a store where there was a pin saying "Your Fired", apparently inspired by the Donald Trump apprentice. I pointed out to the person I was with that the pin was misspelled. The clerk said, YES! I noticed that, too, and not many other people seem to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: frogprince
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:00 PM

I started getting virus warnings with the images on that last link.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mooh
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 02:40 PM

"No, but are you two perhaps getting just a bit PRESCRIPTIVE? I can never see what anyone wants a tattoo for — but those who like them should surely be at liberty to chose them to please themselves & not to reflect someone else's PC preoccupations." [MtheGM]

What's so necessarily PC about "What I dislike about tattoos are the skulls, violence, death, and dismemberment themes that seem so popular. Body art should reflect peace, love, joy, faith, hope, charity, nature, family, commitment...positive things."? As for being prescriptive, wtf, what they should be in my mind or in my opinion is hardly prescriptive. Folks can do whatever they want, but I bet negative themes are more often regretted later than positive themes.

Naturally, ymmv.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:22 AM

I pointed out to the person I was with that the pin was misspelled.

Er - nannying, perhaps?

I must point out that I'm of the belief whereby folklore must extend to the pragmatics of vernacular usage, which refuses to accept any word can be misspelled and that intention is all that matters, regardless of any unwitting literary, poetic or comic effect arising from comparison to The Rule (which is likewise mutable). In these respects I am a keen fan of Engrish, as well as the proud owner of a cast iron sign that reads Keep of the Grass.

Otherwise, we have the catchphrase You're fired! as part of the UK version of The Apprentice, only with Sir Alan 'Amstrad' Sugar in the place of Donald Trump. Like many British people I assumed the catchphrase to be his, but a little research reveals its American origins. What a sad nation of plagiarists we have become! Although I see Life On Mars USA starts screening in the UK this week. I will watch it of course - but Harvey Keitel as Gene Hunt???

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:30 AM

Luv U2 Mooh. Vomit a good vomit, darling-heart.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:03 AM

The American Life on Mars was good....and Harvey Keitel was excellent....but the ending sucked...horribly...

The British version is ten times better....

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Alice
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:47 AM

nannying is joking around with a clerk about how we both noticed a pin was misspelled? I detect some defensiveness. Some people have tats and some people don't and everyone has their own reasons. Nothing nannying about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Alice
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 10:51 AM

You must have missed all my joke caption Engrish threads. Much fun ensues.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:03 PM

Personally I hate tattoos on legs. Arms aren't too bad unless there are loads of them (although even loads of them can look good IF they are done really well) but tats on legs, y'know the sort Leeds United football club (or any other football club logo)just look shite, totally tasteless. And women with too many tats, and self inficted tats. Just another example of todays society's sheep mentality.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:28 PM

Best tattoo I ever saw was one of Jesus. I'd been asked by the cardiologist I worked for to put a 24 hour ECG tape on a patient. He was a nice man, a chauffeur for one of the Royal family of Qatar.

Well, he came in, and I asked him to strip to the waist and lie down on the couch. A few minutes later I went in...and there was Jesus staring at me, from the Cross...full length, down his body, covering his whole chest, tummy etc..out to his arms.

I kinda gulped, grinned and silently vowed to get my own back on Dr. Spurrell, because I knew he'd not told me on purpose.. :0)

The patient told me that he'd been in the Merchant Navy as a young man and his mates got him blind drunk one night, and in the morning he 'woke up with Jesus' in more ways than one... ;0)

He went on to need open heart surgery, and Gareth, the surgeon, said it was the hardest operation he'd ever done, because matching up Jesus took absolutely ages, and he had to get him perfect..


The most bizarre tattoo I've ever heard about was not long ago, when a friend told me of someone she knew who's partner had had her name tattooed on his erm....er...um............(YIKES!).....as a sign of his committment to be faithful, after having had an affair.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amergin
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:19 PM

It was a fad for a while for women to get the lower back tattooed with some flowery thing...and they all looked pretty much the same no matter where it was done...while it was rather sexy on some girls....on others it did look like a fashion statement...and nothing more....I always did kind of wonder what they would do when the fad ended....

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ed T
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 09:27 PM

Had one. Got it with three friends as a teen ager, on a dare. Got it removed a two decades ago, and have the scar to prove it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:36 AM

Amergin: "It was a fad for a while for women to get the lower back tattooed with some flowery thing...[..]..I always did kind of wonder what they would do when the fad ended...."

One might see such "passing trends" as echoing universally human 'tribal' impulses, of personally identifying with ones contemporaries or social peer group. And in the long term, you could look back and recall 'when I was a rocker' or 'when I was a punk' etc. and know that these 'rites of passage' tribal type experiences in youth, eternally marked you, both within and without.

For myself however (as someone who's never really identified with any group), the reason I've never yet gone ahead with any form of permanent body ornamentation, is that it'd need to really ring true on a personal level - so that it wouldn't end up like the tattoo equivalent of being eternally strapped into whatever the fashion media have decided is "this seasons" skirt length.

I also think (for some of us anyway) that unless permanent body ornamentation is a personal ritual observance of a major life experience or event (i.e.: something that has left an indelible mark upon one as an individual), a tattoo is possibly best done at mid-life or beyond. So you've got as good an idea about who you are, as you're ever likely to get. And you're less likely to be affected by impersonal passing trends, that might become meaningless to you in a few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:55 AM

Further to VTam's post up thread. Tam you could think about designing a 'compound rune': bringing two or more together into a single sigil. This way you can both personalise the final image, and meaning.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Oct 09 - 05:07 PM

A couple of times, at the nude beach at Sandy Hook, I saw a man with swimming trunks tattooed on him. Nothing could deprive him of his modesty!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM

I was at the pool yesterday with my son and there was a man there with a rather large tattoo across his sholders. It said "TRUST NO ONE"

Isn't it sad that someone would feel that way?
Sadder still that they were so committed to that feeling that they would have it printed across his sholders?
And - since he was single - wouldn't he be sending up a big red flag to any woman he dated in the future?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 03:40 PM

Perhaps he was a big fan of "The X Files"?

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 05:01 PM

Over my seventy-nine years I've occasionally thought of getting a tattoo.   

And I might, too, when I grow up!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 05:47 PM

Saw a lad today. He had some writing on each side of his neck and lord knows how many piercings in his ears and face.

Seriously, what possesses people to become a human billboard for stupidity?

Some of the posts above approach an answer to this defilement of the human body... a momentous ocassion...

But, for the most part, in the end, why? A conversation piece? "Look at me" seems idiotic compared to the downside healthwise. And if that is all you have to attract other humans to interact with you, well, get lots so I can see you coming and walk the other way.

I heard a comedian say once, "I thought the goal was to leave this life with the same numbers of holes you came in with."

I have also seen a number of women in shops with lower back tattoos. Short shirts and low cut pants exposing them... in public... at the grocery store middle of the day? At times, I want to ask, "Are you a slut? How much do you charge?" But, I realize, anyone who would do that really won't answer in an intelligent manner.

Sorry, but I find this defilement of the human body disgusting on top of unnecessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 06:09 PM

Either that, Becca, or the aliens did it to him!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 07:03 PM

Whilst cruising down Broadway Ave. East on Seattle's Capitol Hill on a warm summer afternoon, one tends to see a fair number of young women displaying their body art. This can be aesthetically pleasing, kinda sexy, or downright frightening. Fairly standard is the slender young woman wearing a top which ends just below the breasts, leaving a fair expanse of bare skin, usually down to the top of the hip-huggers which are about a quarter of an inch above the top margin of her pubic hair (if any). The navel tends to be the focal point of this display. Ornate star-like manifestations, sun-bursts, flowers, sometimes whole bouquets of flowers, solar systems, galaxies. . . .

Since I travel the area in a power wheelchair, I'm generally at a fairly good level for admiring navel art.

Another aspect of these expeditions is the cell-phone. Many people are sufficiently occupied on their cell phones that they are not paying a whole lot of attention to the surrounding area, and frequently I have to shout a warning to someone or they will wind up in my lap.

I'm waiting for that wonderful day when someone sufficiently occupied with their cell phone conversation walks, forehead first, into one of the metal light poles that line the street. They have such a nice, loud, bell-like tone.

The Tattooed Man, by Ray Bradbury. A great frame for a collection of bizarre short stories. Each tattoo told a different story.

Pony tails? Nothing new. In times past, many men would wear their hair unpowdered and "clubbed," as an alternative to a powdered wig. Often, a mark of relative youth. André-Louis Moreau, hero of Rafael Sabatini's historical novel, Scaramouche, set in France as it was leading up to the French Revolution, wore his brown hair clubbed and unpowdered. [The movie with Stewart Granger was based very loosely on Sabatini's novel, but was a kind of dumb, Hollywood romp compared to the very fine novel].

How the hell did I get here!??

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Amergin
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 07:08 PM

Actually, Don, the book is called The Illustrated Man....a great read!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 07:24 PM

Effsee... good info.

Odd thought. When I was at uni, I started palying serious squash. I often showered several times a day as I would set up matches between and after classes. I would ofetn play several hours straight on the weekends and on Tuesday night at the club get together. I cut my hair very short as it was a bother to keep it "neat" and the style of the day was long.

Many young ladies found it, ah, let's say "different".

Of course, it was simply a conversation piece, as they were "serious" about the "squash results" on my build. Far more productive than any body art, I would think.

If ya wanna be different, be different in a healthy way. Whether that is physical or cerebral. But, tattoos, piercings, dying hair or even getting laser eye surgery to avoid wearing glasses... are just odd to me.

I wish, at times, I was still playing.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 07:37 PM

Right, Amergin! I just took a look at it on my bookshelves and said, "Oops!"

Excellent collection. Some of Bradbury's best stuff.

Don Firth

P. S. One story I especially liked was "Kaleidoscope"

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 07:46 PM

I'd say maybe one small tattoo. If I were to get one, I'd think about
my life so far, and things that I have valued for a long time. Maybe
my religion for example. I would get a small tattoo that defines my
life.
I don't think I'd ever get one, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: frogprince
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 10:52 PM

Tattos are for wimps; I'm trying to research whether I can get the skin removed from my forehead, so it heals with the bone exposed, and get a bit of scrimshaw done on my skull.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 10:54 PM

OK, so this big ol' biker chick wants to get the words "Biker Babe" tattooed on her butt, one word on each cheek as a surprise for her biker boyfriend's birthday.
She asks the tattoo artist how much it'll cost and he tells her "At $100 a letter, that's nine letters, $900."
She thinks that's a bit steep, and asks "Ya got anything cheaper?"
He says, "How about a big B for 'Biker' and 'Babe' on each cheek, $200?"
She agrees, so he does it.
When she gets back to the biker boyfriend's boudoir, he's sitting there in the recliner with the remote control, a can of beer and a large spliff, celebrating his birthday.
She says "I've got a surprise for you honey." and she drops her jeans and panties and bends over in front of him.
He says "Who the hell is BOB?"

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Jun 10 - 11:05 PM

not something I'd want either, tho a number of friends (younger & same age) have them, including a woman whose daughter bought her one for her 50th birthday. 2 fathers (again younger & same age) I know have tattoos giving their children's birth dates, but body art is not my thing.

I recently read an article on tattoo removal in one of the Sunday papers, but can't find it online. Point of the story was that it takes many sessions & costs a lot of money.

Last year I was visiting Australia's oldest inland city, a wonderfully historical place, (pop. 26,000) & was amused to see one of the sections of magazines in the newsagency.

Every newsagent across the country has standard labels for different interests (Crafts, Computer, Business, Travel, Cars, Men's Interest, Women's Interest, etc) but I've never before seen 'Bikes & Tattoos' & there were 6 magazines in this section!

Maybe they're included in another category in the cosmopolitan Big City where I live. We have 3 or 4 tattoo shops in my suburb & special bike parking on the main road for The Kings Cross Bikers Social And Welfare Club

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: LadyJean
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 12:18 AM

I understand that people in many cultures tatooed themselves as a kind or protection.

When my mom was having radiation treatments for cancer (Which didn't work.) They tattoed some small dots on her chest to show where the radiation was supposed to go.

I always thought a tattoo was way too much commitment. It's like when I got a shag haircut. I liked it for the first year or so. But by the time I grew it out, I was royally sick of it and it was a world class pain to grow out.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 01:11 AM

I was at the pool yesterday with my son and there was a man there with a rather large tattoo across his sholders. It said "TRUST NO ONE"

I have a hard time believing he put it there himself. He at least trusted the tattoo artist, who could have been writing "kick me" for all he knew. The gentleman doth protest too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Mooh
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 08:40 AM

Well, I would say moderation in all things, but everyone has a different idea of moderation.

Personally in regards to tattoos, I wouldn't want one on my face/head/neck/hands/privates, but don't have an objection to other areas of the body. I'm not going to go for where's Waldo behind my ear or in my butt crack.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 08:59 AM

Ah, c'mon, Mooh, think how entertaining it could be!**bg**

kat who still loves her discrete tattoos; only a small one in plain sight which most folks never even notice and would mean nothing to them if they did.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 10:21 AM

In these parts the tattoo at the base of the spine (of a woman) is called a "tramp stamp".

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 11:27 PM

Just read the best book I've read in years:   Go Down Together, by Jeff Guinn.

A sociological study of the really down and out in Texas in the 20's (farmers, including Clyde Barrow's father, who got caught in the US farm depression which hit 10 years before the official Depression--"When World War I ended...American farmers went down to defeat with the Germans". He wound up close to the bottom of the pile, a junkman).

A dual biography of Bonnie and Clyde.

A whodunnit, since you know it ended in bullets but not exactly how it reached that point.

History that reads like a novel.

And on top of that, a bit a relevance to the thread.

Amos mentioned "the young and frustrated".    Fits perfectly here.

In anticipation of joining the Navy--and getting out of the slum where he lived-- Clyde had "USN" tattooed on his left arm. But the Navy turned him down due to "lingering effects from the illness that hospitalized him soon after the Barrows arrived in West Dallas" the slum across the river from Dallas.   (Could possibly have been malaria or yellow fever).

Then he added "EBW" (for Eleanor).    Then "Anne" and "Grace" joined the others.

Never Bonnie--though that was the one that lasted the rest of his short life.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 22 Jun 10 - 11:30 PM

"...a bit of relevance..."

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 09:09 AM

At the risk of committing truly egregious thread creep, let me plug the book again.   It also deals with how media misperceptions are created, the conflict between informing and entertaining, and how misperceptions first helped Bonnie and Clyde in their criminal careers and then eventually turned on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Joe_F
Date: 23 Jun 10 - 09:53 PM

When I was young (1950s), I was told that if a man had a tattoo, he got it in the service & was drunk at the time. For a while I checked that out every time I met one, and found that it was almost always true.

I don't have any tattoos, but I imagine part of their charm is that of irreversibility -- like mailing a letter, quitting your job, or killing yourself -- or, once upon a time, getting married or enlisting.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 12:15 AM

I hadn't thought of this before, but here's a lyric add.

I got a daisy on my toe
It isn't real. It's just for show.
It's just a tatto of a flower.
So, I'll look nice, while taking a shower
It's on the second toe of my left foot.
It's just a stem and flower, it has no root.
Becaause That wouldn't look good!

I've got a daisy on my toe. My right foot loves my left foot so.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: GUEST,Tig
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 03:38 PM

Firecat has finally got round to having a butterfly tattoo on her thight. This means she is now free of the panic attacks she used to throw if she went out without a butterfly somewhere about her.

I encouraged her to get it - it's been worth it!

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 07:28 PM

The Morning After.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Jun 10 - 11:04 PM

When she was 19 she got a circle tattooed on her bottom. When she was 45 it was an oval. When she was 70 it was a line.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:03 PM

When I was in high school, I was vaguely acquainted with a guy just a year or two older than I was. Tough kid. He was a drop-out, but he hung around school trying to score girls.

He claimed to be equipped with "twin screws."

"'Twin screws?'" said I. "What do you mean?"

He said he had two propellers tattooed on his rump, one on each buttock.

I took his word for it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:34 PM

Yall are all dum tatoos aree the shitt

Oooh that really makes me want to run out and get a tattoo. Maybe I'll forget how to speak, spell, and punctuate English too.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:36 PM

Buddy loses his ID and at the Canuck border is refused entry. He says to the border guard he can prove he is Canuck because he a tattoo of Tommy Douglas on one ass cheek and of Pierre Trudeau on the other. He drops trou and the guard says, okay you can go home to New Brunswick.

Buddy asks how he knew buddy was from New Brunswick.

He relpies, I recognized your premier Shawn Graham in the middle.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 03:48 PM

I like tattoos, on men or on women. But I think the old 'drunk in the services' tattoos, all those faded blue roses, definitely have more charm than contemporary "(not very) tribal" styles.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: frogprince
Date: 25 Jun 10 - 06:23 PM

So this woman goes into a tattoo parlor, and orders two tattoos. One on the inside of each thigh. Robert Redford on one side, Paul Newman on the other. The artist finishes, and she looks down at his work. She announces that she isn't going to pay for the job, as neither image is even recognizable. They argue some, and settle on an agreement; they will step outside, and see if the first passerby identifies the pictures correctly. As it turns out, the first to approach is a lanky cowboy type. They explain the situation, he agrees to be the test subject, and she drops trou. He scratches his head a bit, and says, "Wal, I don't know who neither of the two on the sides are, but the one in the middle is Willie Nelson."

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Jun 10 - 01:30 PM

It turns out Bonnie also got a tattoo.   "She ran out and got a tattoo high up on the inside of her right thigh. It had two red hearts connected by arrows and the hearts were labeled 'Bonnie" and "Roy'." (Guinn p 49.)

Roy was her boyfriend. "Big, good-looking, and well-dressed".   Had money for dates. She married him at age 15.   25 September 1926.

He left her three times--for up to a year-- with no explanations when he returned.

In 1929 he was arrested for robbery, sentenced to 5 years in prison.

She didn't take off his wedding ring, nor divorce him.   That "just wouldn't be right". Though as it turned out she never saw him again.

She never got a tattoo with Clyde's name.

Subject: RE: BS: Tattoos - why?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jun 10 - 11:41 AM

Gnu-

Thanks for the link to "Morning After."

It's certainly something to meditate on.

Charley Noble