BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'

Subject: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:31 AM

Every now and again this quote "It all depends on whose Ox is being gored" come up, presented as a question solving principle. And I'm a bit puzzled by the implication.

Anybody who goes round being cruel to oxen or other dumb animals is no friend of mine. If it happened in front of me I don't think it'd make too much difference whether it was my Ox or not.

It's not a biblical reference familiar to me in my religious tradition. coveting a neighbour's ox I know about, but goring the poor creature, no. Someone enlighten me.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:36 AM

I think it has to do with a previous election in the USA--Al Gore if memory serves . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:44 AM

No, that's whose Gore was being axed.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:46 AM

An Algore-rhythym, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 12:06 PM

It's probably from the earlier tradition of sacred Jewish writings that preceded the Bible, only some of which are incorporated in the Bible. Suggest a PM to Rabbi Sol, since he is not here daily to spot this phrase.

Or it could be a reference to the Minotaur story.

Probably not Paul Bunyan's Babe. :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 12:06 PM

It is much older thasn that, you'll find.

gore 1 (gôr, gr)
tr.v. gored, gor·ing, gores
To pierce or stab with a horn or tusk.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English goren, probably from gore, spear, from Old English gr.]

I imagine it may have derived from watching oxen from different clans or farms get pissy with each other and gore each other; whether it was humorous or not depended on whose ox was being gored, since it meant your survival (as a plowman or hauler or whatever) was being put at risk.


A

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:25 PM

Since oxen are usually castrated males, they are pretty even tempered and not prone to goring one another. If someone's ox gets gored, it's probably because someone else has maliciously slipped a bull into the pen.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:25 PM

Since it is I who use it regularly, I will clarify....

It is meant to mean 'everyone's notion of what is bad is largely dependent on whether it directly affects themselves'.

I do not know the historical origins, but it puts a very common human attitude into a nutshell.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:29 PM

It is a 2nd cousin to the saying : "I wish I had his ..... (car, Ox, House...whatever) and he had a feather up his a***."

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:31 PM

Slip a bull

into a pen.


I don't get it!

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:34 PM

I'm not surprised..*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:52 PM

Seems you've been winning salads again, Peace, by hitting the grass...


A

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Severn
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:54 PM

I've seen wrens and swallows nest in gourds, but never an auk. If you wish to go see them nest, go to some remote rocky offshore island.

Auk-ward.....HO!

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Severn
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 02:08 PM

Not to be confused with a neighboring species, SINSULL'S Tern.


Is it better to be gourd than squashed?

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Peace
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 02:14 PM

Jaysus, you guys are BAD!

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 02:46 PM

I can tell you this--if I ever ran into one of those aukward Ho!!'s, I would try to encourage her to practice more.


A

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Severn
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 02:57 PM

Whatever happens, Peace, at least you've made us five pens the richer, even if you're settling for mere salads because the steaks are too high.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 02:59 PM

this thread's not drifting....it's being blown off course by the trade winds.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 03:11 PM

See Spaw if you want to trade winds.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 03:15 PM

I did see Spaw last Summer...we ate lunch, then I left before he had an 'opportunity'.

besides...he says those days are over. (I think someone said "put a cork in it".)

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 04:51 PM

Oh, B-i-l-l...I knw you're just gonna love reading about the sin that needs to gored as in this fellow's editorial.**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 05:01 PM

From elsewhere, with citations of "Jewish sources:"

[quote]
Two passages in Exodus treat of an ox doing harm: the first of harm to a person (xxi. 28-32); the second to the ox of another owner (ib. 35-36). The verb used in the first passage is "nagaḥ" (to gore); that in the second, "nagaf" (to strike or hurt). But, according to the tradition, the rules laid down in either passage apply to goring, striking with the body, biting, kicking, and lying on. These rules are also extended to animals other than oxen, either injuring or injured (B. Ḳ. i. 4); and, while the texts contemplate killing only, the rules apply to lesser injuries also.
[end quote]

Those of us who know little of olden jewish tradition have had the impression that animals, and even inanimate objects could, in some circumstances, be held "criminally liable." It would be expected that the "rules" in reference above may provide some further elucidation, but I've got other things that must be done before I look them up.

Later, maybe.

John

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 05:22 PM

Oh, MERCY, kat! I'd have been better off not knowing how sanctimoniously that line could be used! Yeah, I suppose one 'should' be aware of origin & context in the aphorisms they quote...but sheesh!

(And the guy who posted that seems not to have gotten the point...)
" When men who would pervert the gospel on issues that would endanger the church sought an audience, no audience was allowed. The truth was upheld. False teachers were renounced, and God's word and only God's word was allowed to be preached. Then, without such specific intention, I gored the ox of those prominent men. I preached against a sin they were committing. I was dismissed, they were vindicated in the eyes of the local church, and a new servant will soon have his chance to see if he can preach the whole counsel of God without goring any oxen and losing his job."

He seems to think that there should be no "goring" allowed, except by him and according to his rules. He lost the argument,,,

Ah, well...I still like the unadorned, basic concept...without the religious trappings.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 05:30 PM

How peculiar to elect a hating entity, with so much to resist, as one's ultimate icon of Divinity.

Makes no sense to me. If I had a God who up and started out listing the things he hated, I'd fire him for being unqualified. But mebbe that's just me. ;<)



A

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 08:16 PM

It seems to me that kind of pseudo-Christianity has an awful lot in common with the pseudo-Islamism of the Taliban and suchlike.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Melissa
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:08 PM

So when you fire off a stunningly pointy post..thereby stopping the opposing poster in his/her tracks, you have "gored the ox"?

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 11:59 PM

LOL...thought you might find it interesting, BillDarlin'...:-)

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 03:47 PM

I take it that Amos's summary is right - the idea is that, only if it's your Ox being gored do you mind, but if its somebody else's you don't mind, or think it's funny.

Seems a bit pessimistic about human nature. I mean, if it was someone else's car getting knocked about, just possibly - but a poor old ox?

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Riginslinger
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 04:14 PM

Actually, I think it was Tipper who got Gored.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 04:29 PM

personally, I Gore Vidal.

(seems we have a problem with aphorisms which were created when oxen were hi-tech...*grin*. Maybe I should invent one about iPODs?)

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM

"whose iPOD fell down the toilet" - yes, I could relate to that better.

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 04:53 PM

Ok...but it ain't 'folk'...

Subject: RE: BS: '..whose Ox is being gored'
From: Severn
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 05:15 PM

For vegetarians and botanists, it's a question of whose auxin is being gored.

For the rest of us, the tail goes into the soup and the blood goes in to color the shoe polish and anyone's welcome to the rest.