BS: Obama Swiftboated

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 08:01 PM

The "swiftboat" campaign against Kerry worked because he made himself vulnerable to it by playing up his status as a "war hero". If he had played down his military service as "only doing his duty" the swiftboaters would have had nothing to shoot at.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:40 PM

To those who object to the negative references to swiftboats, I'm afrraid you're fighting a losing battle.

John Kerry himself served aboard swiftboats (Fast Patrol Craft) during the Vietnam War. It was a group of alleged swiftboatsmen who didn't even know Kerry and had no first-hand information about him until he took his anti-war stance with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, who, decades later when Kerry became a candidate for the Presidency, attacked his war record with libels and slanders (none of which was ever substantiated) and who have caused the term "swiftboat" to go into the political lexicon as meaning "spreading scurrilous lies about a politician or political candidate in an attempt to ruin his or her reputation." It was a small group of swiftboaters, disgruntled by Kerry's antiwar stance, who have themselves caused "swiftboat" to become a negative political term, and it actually has nothing to do with the bravery or gallantry of the crews of the swiftboats—save for the few who engaged in those slanders.

"Swiftboat" has become a political expression in the same way that "Watergate" has. The Watergate Hotel Complex in Washington, D. C. is a perfectly nice hotel where the Democratic National Committee had its offices. On June 17th, 1972, the offices were burgled by overzealous Republicans who were searching for information and attempting to set up bugs on the Committee's phones. They got caught, and the resultant scandal and investigation resulted, which eventually led to Richard Nixon's resignation as President. It henceforth became known as the "Watergate scandal."

This has nothing to do with the quality of the facilities and service one would find were one to stay at the Watergate Hotel. I'm quite sure that the owners and managers of the hotel complex are not happy about the association, but once the expression went into the media, there was nothing anyone could do about it.

Nor, as I said, does the political usage of the term "swiftboat" have anything to do with the bravery of the swiftboat crews per se, save for those who sold their integrity by participating in a political smear campaign.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:31 PM

Seen that guy Larry Sinclair? Seen Michelle Obama?

Not exactly too convincing, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: gnu
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:18 PM

So, it's all about blowjobs? But, not about the world getting blown... to pieces? Sad eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:16 PM

This was a respected member of the plant community until you-know-who got in.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:13 PM

It happens. I imagine the Watergate is no worse than any other big hotel, but that didn't save it from becoming the basis of an all purpose way of referring to any public scandal.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:11 PM

Parsley, Sage, Rosemary and Thieme?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:08 PM

Swift segue here: Art, I've forgotten: How do you pronounce your last name? Last week when I was chatting with Michael Smith (from Chicago) I would have liked to ask him if he knew you but I figured my credibility would appear too low if I couldn't even say your name. All I remember is that Thieme does NOT rhyme with Thyme. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 07:02 PM

RabbiSol hardly invented the current connotation. I'm sure we have all seen reference made to 'swiftboating'. (If the Swiftboat incident had not been such a notorious and ultimately successful libel the noun would never have made it into today's lexicon.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:57 PM

And worse yet, O'bama is an Irish name.

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:47 PM

Art,
Using the word as a NOUN, you would be correct. I am sure that those who served their country honorably in Vietnam, (I also had close friends who did), on swiftboats did so with the utmost courage and conviction. However, using the word as a VERB (as in being swiftboated), has unfortunately taken on a pejorative connotation in light of the 2004 presidential campaign. It was much the same as having Michael Dukakis run against Willie Horton instead of Papa Bush.

                                                      SOL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:37 PM

Sol, to someone who served in Vietnam, or who had family or friends who did, using the word "Swiftboat" as a generic word for vile slander is rather like calling an Orthodox Jew in Jerusalem a Nazi for stoning a car that is on the road on Shabbat.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Scanner
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 06:28 PM

My definition of "swiftboating" is spreading political lies to intentionally ruin the reputation of a candidate as was done to John Kerry by the Bush-Cheney campaign in 2004. How do you want me to use this word in a positive way?

                                                    SOL
                                     (on my wife's computer)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 05:08 PM

I beseech you as a Rabbi to reconsider the use of that word in a negative way. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:58 PM

Rabbi, I posted that motel room video of Sinclair reading his script 4 weeks ago as wel as a thread devoted to the coming Right Wing accusations against Barak 4 months ago, called Obama's Goose is Cooked. Hopefully Obama will be immune from what most people already expect from right wing shock jocks like Limpbog and Hanitwity.

Next to come...bathroom hand signal accusations, affair with Lewinski's younger sister, Saving and Loan scandel, missing National Guard records, improper emails to Congressional pages, adding earmarks to protect Drug companies at 3 AM Sunday, no bid contracts to personal family friends, Lying about having straight sex, having Rick Barton, a campaign contributor of $25 dollars, indicted by the attorney general and HLS for terrorist conspiracy/thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:41 PM

RabbiSol, Braunstein is hardly as certain as you imply (The thrust of his thinking is that whoever is behind the story, it hardly matters whether it is true; the timing of the release of the story just before the all-important primaries is the thing):

"This story has everything that the Clintons could have hoped for: Oral gay sex, crack-cocaine use by the black candidate (Mr. Sinclair's choice of cocaine was of the white powder variety, as "befitting" a white man) and Internet support for lie detector tests all around. Most importantly, however, is that there is no real way to confirm or deny these charges without a proper vetting, and that would take a minimum of several weeks.

"This is a life and death gamble for whoever is behind this latest sleaze. If it is indeed the Clintons who are behind it, they better pray that their fingerprints are never found—and the best way to insure that, is for Mr. Larry Sinclair to suddenly pull a Vince Foster, once his limited usefulness has ended."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:37 PM

Then a year and a half later it was this:


Wheels within wheels within wheels . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:34 PM

"when you're driving it's always the other guy that's "the idiot". Funny how that works."

Hey - I've noticed that too! I wish the rest of the world would drive as well as we do.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:34 PM

Yeah. Things do get twisted,.

"Ahmadinejad made his remarks in a speech Wednesday to 4,000 students attending a conference called "The World Without Zionism." He was quoting the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, who led the 1979 Islamic revolution that established Iran's theocratic government and made fierce opposition to Israel a matter of political orthodoxy.

Ahmadinejad also called the 1948 establishment of Israel, on territory also claimed by Palestinians, the fall of "the last trench of Islam."

Virulent anti-Israel sentiment remains strong in the hard-line circles from which Ahmadinejad emerged to win the presidential election in June. "Israel Should Be Wiped Off the Map" was the slogan draped on a Shahab-3 ballistic missile during a military parade in Tehran a month ago. Six of the missiles, which, with a 1,250 mile range, could reach Israel, were the high point of the parade. "We Will Trample America Under Our Feet," read another banner."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:28 PM

There are always any number of things that an idiot might think. Make any assertion whatever about anything or anyone whatsoever, and those who most want to believe it will believe it. Repeat it frequently, and the strength of their belief will increase. (For instance, the world is now full of people who think that Ahmadinejad said that Iran would "wipe Israel off the map". He didn't say that. Not even close.)

One caution, though. Remember...when you're driving it's always the other guy that's "the idiot". Funny how that works.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:26 PM

Cui bono?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:21 PM

This type of thing can smear two different ways. Some idiots are going to believe it's true. And other idiots who don't believe it just might think it was started by the Clintons if you tell that lie often enough. Very clever.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:19 PM

"Deputy White House counsel Vince Foster was found dead in Fort Marcy Park off the George Washington Parkway in Virginia, outside Washington, D.C., on July 20, 1993. His death was ruled a suicide by all official investigations. Nevertheless, some independent investigators object to this conclusion."

from the Wikipedia in the event ya don't recall Mr Foster.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:10 PM

Go to www.braunsteinspeaks.com and see what an ultra right wing conservative has to say about this. He is definitely accusing the Clintons and suggests that after Mr. Sinclair has oulived his usefulness he will end up like Vince Foster did.

                                                 SOL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:09 PM

Pictures of Hillary slumming?

          Somebody sent that Obama video to me several weeks ago, so it's been around for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:08 PM

That's the kind of stuff people are always trying to hire Chongo for. (The photographs, I mean.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 04:04 PM

That's okay... I have pictures of John McWar and Hillary McClinton coming out of a sleezy motel room...

And I am willing to show them and take a poligraph if the money is right...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:47 PM

Lies about candidates have appeared in every campaign. Washington ran away from the British and crossed the Delaware in terror and Lincoln declared Emancipation because of all the illegitimate kids he had with female slaves.

Hillary and Bill are attracting the same sort of garbage. The emails are worse. Did you know Obama was a Muslim and wants to institute sharia law?

A big Ho-hum.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:37 PM

I wouldn't suspect the Clintons, but I certainly do suspect the right wing.

Not necessarily anyone very highly placed in the GOP establishment, and certainly not Senator McCain or any of his people, but there are plenty of partisan nutcases who are so sure that God is on their side that they assume He would be gladly suspend His usual rules for them, His special favorites, granting them carte blanche to lie, cheat, steal, and commit libel in service of the repressive "greater good."

"Mental health issues," to be sure, but partisan ones nonetheless.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Peace
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:35 PM

I have a bridge that might interest some folks . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:29 PM

Well. I just watched the Sinclair YouTube and I have a number of observations.

* If Sinclair is sincere, he may have the wrong person in mind.
* I cannot picture this man in an "upscale lounge" or in his "own limousine."
* This man, to me, does not appear physically or in personality or in education, to be someone who would appeal to an up and coming politician with his eye on the US presidency.
* The allegations are vague ("He 'acquired' those drugs?) and extremely timely.
* I do NOT suspect the connivance of the Clintons in this. Far more likely, imo, are mental health issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:29 PM

I wouldn't give it much credence. There are several youtube vids. listed, pro and con about Sinclair's allegations. It looks as though they've been going on at least a month if not longer. One did have over 200,000 hits, but I don't think that's a record for youtube, in fact I am sure it is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:14 PM

Bad news travels halfway around the world before the truth has its boots on.

I heard paraphrased quote this morning on the radio. How true. Smut has legs.

Subject: BS: Obama Swiftboated
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:08 PM

A guy by the name of Larry Sinclair has made a video on You Tube claiming that in 1999 that he and Obama engaged in oral sex and smoked crack cocaine in the back of his limousine. It was at the time when Obama was already an elected state representative. The man is willing to take a polygraph test and has challenged Obama to do the same. This video has already gotten more hits than any other in You Tube history.

                                                   SOL