BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:13 PM

When you come right down to it, Nader's fame is based upon his condemning something which, while certainly not perfect, was being developed and improved. [The turbo Corsa was a heckuva good car. I even raced them--on ice.] To the best of my knowledge, he has never had a driver's license and has never driven any of the vehicles he had an effect on.

Much of his reputation is based on taking stands on things he has had a marginal knowledge of. Somehow, he never caught up with the Pinto, a much deadlier vehicle than the 'vair.

He and his friends have gone out of their way to kill the development of nuclear technology in this country. Instead they rant about running out of organic fuels. Had we followed the logical route of development, we would be approaching fusion as a viable energy source--clean, too.

Nader the thinking man--NOT!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:20 PM

EBarnacle, Nader has done A LOT more than just the Corvair.

BTW, do you have an airbag in the car you drive, by any chance?

And why would Time Magazine, of all MSM rags, have named him one of the '100 Most Influential Americans of the 20th Century' if all he ever did was get Corvairs off the road?

You have Ralph Nader and his deeply committed team of activists to thank for safer cars, healthier foods, better air quality, cleaner water, and safer work environments. He didn't get any of that accomplished sitting on his ass in Congress. He did it by pushing Congress, by shaming Congress, by haranguing Congress, by organizing grassroots political opposition to Congress.

Yes, and he has gone out of his way to kill the nuclear industry in this country.

So have I, and millions of other Americans.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:27 PM

"How much attention do you think the MSM will give to his views on the issues, Ron?"

Who is expecting the main stream media to give him any coverage? The media will only cover issues that are sexy and taking down corporations does not have that appeal.

The media is the media. You aren't going to change it with 1000 Nader's.   People are more interested in Angelina's bulging tummy than watching Meet the Press. A bunch of OTH's sitting around Mudcat are not even a slight representation of the the voters in the U.S., and certainly Canucks and Brits have little impact. You need more than Nader to make a change, but he certainly is a start in the right direction.   The more voices that come forward and make some noise, the sooner the public gets their head out of their ass and stars to react.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:31 PM

Actually, we will change it, and with far fewer than 1000 Naders.

You only need one Nader & his team, in fact, to bring about substantial changes in US regulatory law, as he has demonstrated time and again.

So what's your beef there Ron? You don't want to see the American public take back the airwaves from the corrupt FCC and protect their rights to free and unemcumbered access to and political uses of the Internet?

You opposed to throwing the Wall Street scum off the Securities and Exchange Commission?

What's your deal, then?

Elect a Dem placeholder to the White House and keep our fingers crossed?

Yeah, now THERE is a proven, winning strategy.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:37 PM

Nader is after nothing but notoriety and matching funds. Those who are naive enough to think he plays any sort of serious role in the process would deserve sympathy if it wasn't for the fact that this dolt and his legions are as responsible as the right wing extremists for Bush's 8 years and the accompanying disasters that have befallen this country.
He needs to find another hobby and income source.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:53 PM

The military industrial complex and the CIA mind set are respondxible for bush CHENEY, along with a handfull of banking families whose wealth is measured in the trillions of dollars.

Ralph did split the vote way back when however the bush packed Supream Court decided the election.

Beyond this Ralph is only guilty of speaking to Corporate Power in terms we all can understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:54 PM

Just for the record, here are the Democrat presidential candidates for the last 40 years:

                     Hubert Humphrey

                     George McGovern

                     Jimmy Carter

                     Walter Mondale

                     Michael Dukakis

                     "Worthless Willie" Clinton

                     Albert Gore Jr

                     John Kerry

Does that list really make anyone's chest swell with pride? I doubt it.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:55 PM

Sorry to dispoint Guest, but I agree with you - I would LOVE the citizens of this country to wake up and stop the FCC from tearing away at our freedoms. I would love to see the bloodsuckers on Wall Street get their just due. I would love to see change in this country.

What you fail to realize, is that many of us do not see Ralph Nader as the saviour.   His ego, lack of experience, and lack of interest on other issues would be a huge burden for this country - and I truely feel we would be worse under a Nader administration than we are under Bush, and Bush is the worst occupant that ever occupied the White House.

We need people like Nader to bring up issues, but more importantly we need people to pay attention. They won't pay attention to Nader, or some anonymous troll on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 02:57 PM

I love that list PDQ.   Look at the alternatives -

Richard Nixon
Gerald Ford
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
Robert Dole
George Bush

Not exactly Mt. Rushmore material. More like clown school.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:04 PM

Sorry, Ron, but they all flunked out of clown school.

Dukakis, Humphrey and Mondale (and maybe a few others) all passed.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:09 PM

They couldn't even hack clown school? I guess most conservatives were never good in school.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:20 PM

OK Ron. So, how will voting for the Dem nominee change the course the US is on again? Exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:21 PM

Ron O,

I believe that Reagan won't get a spot on Rushmore, but his supporters are shooting for a large monument in Washington on the Mall between the Lincoln Memorial and the reflecting pool. In true conservative fashion, this monstrosity will not be paid for out of private funds. Of course WE TAXPAYERS will pay for it, just like we paid for the S&L scandal, the Wall Street debacle, and the Home Loan boondoggle. All coincidentally coming while Republicans were in office. Government over-spending is good, it seems, as long as they are in office when it happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:33 PM

Please folks, let's not revert to 'them 'publicans done bad' as usual.

The question here is: Why did Democrat failures cause Nader to feel the need to run again?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:37 PM

"OK Ron. So, how will voting for the Dem nominee change the course the US is on again? Exactly? "

Am I a fortune teller? Do you think you know what the future holds?

Nader would certainly change the course, but that does not mean it would be a better one.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: kendall
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:45 PM

He's running because of democrat failures? Seems to me that republicans have been in control for the last 15 years. The democrats have a slim margin in the senate, one or two votes?

He stands the same chance as a snowball in Hell. He knows it, or does he think his chance is better than Teddy Roosevelt? No third party candidate has ever won the office, and it is because the voters don't vote for them.
I'd hate to have his nerve in a tooth.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:50 PM

I just don't see why Nader entering the Presidential race really forwards his cause. Whatever good he has done successfully, has been done from the private sector. Whatever confusion he has added to the national dialogue has been injected by his political campaigns. Why the hell is he going to spend his money and time on a campaign that will not win, and only lessens the chances of putting someone decent in Bush's place? This makes little or no sense; if all he is after is exposure to his programmatic aims, he can flout his vision the way he has successfully done so in the past. His spoiling of the Gore campaign certainly did not lead to an endorsement of his platform.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 03:58 PM

It forwards the nation's causes.

He hasn't worked in the private sector, he has worked in the public sector.

He doesn't confuse the national dialogue, he clarifies it--if you can't understand what he is talking about, then you aren't listening to him. He is extremely articulate, doesn't use much fancy language. This isn't difficult, boys.

Nader doesn't spend his own money on the presidential campaigns. It took his 2000 campaign quite some time to retire it's debts. But it did do it. Nader counts on fundraising to wage his campaigns, and his shoestring campaign budget is the stuff of legends.

There is no decent Democratic candidate that will be 'put in Bush's place' this year. Zero chance of that.

Finally, I'm glad the world didn't have to rely on this lot to end slavery or give women the vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:18 PM

Get used to saying it, folks:

President McCain.

And his Forever War.

Thanks, Ralph!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:26 PM

Sad and pathetic you can't overcome that vindictive streak of yours, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Dan Keding
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:44 PM

GG - if you could calm down a bit and stop stating everything in absolutes life would be easier for you and for everyone else reading your posts.

You obviously didn't read mine or if you did you only remembered what you wanted to remember. I stated very firmly that I believed we needed more than two parties in this country and yet you accused me of otherwise. How do you know who I have supported in the past or who I have voted for in the past? Do you know for sure that I have never voted for a Green Party or other third party candidate in any election? If you think so then you are wrong. Do you think I vote lockstep with the Democrats on every election and on every issue? You're wrong.

I do think that if we are to have viable national third party candidates then it must come from the people not from the media. It should come from a grass roots movement that delivers power back to the people through local and state elections. Even the Green Party and the Libertarians have been unsuccessful locally in most states.

Maybe we are all wrong. Maybe nothing will ever change. But if people still continue to have enough faith to VOTE then we should not diminish that faith. If you want to work for Nader because he will bring change then I think you should do just that and for you that is right and I applaud your decision. But if I choose to vote for someone else who I think can bring about change then who are you to attack me or anyone else on this forum just because we don't agree with you.

There are a lot of good people who will be voting for Obama or Clinton who marched and worked to get the vote for African Americans and try to put an end to discrimination and who marched and worked to end the Viet Nam war. There are people who you are insulting who have been in the trenches and are proud of what they've done and don't need to be preached at for their political views.

Enough said.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Alice
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM

Thank you, Dan.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:50 PM

Nader is not to blame - that is too easy.   If the candidate has the right ideas, he or she will get the votes. If they do not, they won't. Plain and simple.   It isn't Nader's fault that Gore and Kerry could not convince enough people.   That excuse is tired and doesn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 04:57 PM

Nice speach, but the Viet Nam War is over, women can vote and Blacks are more free in the United States than they are in most of Africa.

How about talking issues.

Social Security will be bankrup in a decade or less, Mexico has over 32 million of it's citizens living in the United States and our national debt is over 9 trillion dollars.

What we get from The Big Three candidates is fluff that appeals to watchers of Oprah Winfrey.

Yes, something must change.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:05 PM

Sad and pathetic you can't overcome that vindictive streak of yours, Don.


Um...are you the pot here? Or the kettle? Your assertive condescension is as vindictive as anything seen on this forum, repeatedly; and it is not like it hasn't been mentioned, or that you haven't seen its effects for yourself.


As for Nader, well and good. Give him everything you've got, and I hope ti helps the nation.

I disagree profoundly with your estimate of Barack obama, but I think only time will tell if the center of his potential will hold under the pressures of the post.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:10 PM

Dan, do you believe Ralph Nader should not run, so that the Democrats have (according to you) a better chance of winning in November?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:15 PM

Well, well, well...

This ol' Obama-hillybilly is glad to see mah main man, Nader, in the race...

(Are you nut's, Bobertz???)

Maybe, but that isn't the issue here...

Ralph is taking over where the media cut Kucinich down... Ralph will make Obama a better candidate... He will make the Dems squirm... That a good thing...

The Dems lost in 2000 becuase they didn't have the balls to hire thugs and lawyers to disrupt the recount in Florida... Not becuase of Ralph Nader...

Hey, if they want to be seen a tough enough to deal with the rpoblems that the country has then they had better be ready to rumble with McCain...

This is where Nader helps... Not hinders...

If Obama is to truely get behind changing the way things are done in Washington then he needs Ralph to be out there exposing how the corporations are running the show...

Like I've said, I will vote and perhaps work for Obama but I still consider my values and opinions closer to Nader, a guy I been voting for every 4 years going way back, than to Obama's...

So, welcome back, Ralph... Sorry I'm gonna go ther other way this time but glad as Hell yer in the mix...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:19 PM

The Democrats do not have a majority in the Senate. There are currently 49 Democrats, 49 Republicans and 2 Independents (Lieberman and Sanders).

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 05:51 PM

I spent a number of years working for an organization where Nader was on the board of directors. He did his damndest to destroy the entire operation in order to convert a product-testing outfit into a collection of legal advocacy centers. The man is a nut.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Dan Keding
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:02 PM

I think that if Nader wants to run then he should BUT I also think that Nader should have been more active - not just as someone who is pointing out the ills in a very troubled society - but also as someone who has been organizing and starting grass roots political action on a very local level, helping independents and third party candidates win, and stressing the importance of youth in our political theater. I have not seen that from him and it makes me suspect his national motives. I have never said he wasn't a good and honorable man, even good people have egos and are sometimes caught up in their own myths. No one can deny the good he has done in the past and will probably do in the future but that doesn't mean he is the right person at this time in history. I agree with the poster who says that he adds a certain honesty to the campaign that may or may not but hopefully will embolden the Democrats to address some issues they may have otherwise ignored - we'll see.

To be honest the political exchange on this thread has reinforced the reason why I don't usually address forums like this. Too much sarcasm and not enough respect. PDQ, I know about the issues of the day and I have worked on a local level do something about many of them, I was addressing the condescending attitude that was being used toward people whose history in politics and change GG and obviously yourself probably didn't know anything about.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:02 PM

Sounds like a personal issue to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:13 PM

"I was addressing the condescending attitude that was being used toward people whose history in politics and change GG and obviously yourself probably didn't know anything about."

Amazing. You say you hate a condescending attitude and the cop one. Classic hypocrisy.

And don't pat yourself on the back too much about community activism, because the people who really make this country run are the people who grow the crops, drive the trucks, build the cars, put out fires and develope new medicines. Etc.etc.etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:16 PM

There's nothing easier than spotting one's own character flaws in another, is there? ;-)

Again, standard human behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:17 PM

Dan, again, Nader has done all those things you claim he has never done, and recently. He works practically round the clock. He has founded a good number of non-profit advocacy organizations, organized right alongside the Greens on a grassroots level.

Whether you think it polite of me to say so or not, it seems quite obvious you don't know much of anything about Ralph Nader, because what you are describing has no relationship to his very public record of civil society advocacy and stellar accomplishments--like I said, even Time Magazine put him on the list of their 100 Most Influential Americans of the 20th Century.

That doesn't sound, to me, like someone who hasn't been active. Quite the opposite. Which leads me to question your motives for claiming Nader hasn't done what the Nader record clearly shows he has done.

Why do you feel compelled to lie about Nader like that?

Now then, if you wish to vote for the Democrats, that's fine. But why this disingenuous attack against Nader?

Why are you so afraid of Ralph Nader you would come into this thread--something you claim you rarely do--just to diss him & lie about him?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Dan Keding
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:00 PM

GG,

If I seemed to belittle what Nader has done in the past I am sorry for that. If you read my last post I'm sure you'll see that I did not say anything disrespectful.

I will say this one more time though, I have not seen any grass roots accomplishments in getting third party candidates elected locally on a scale that would challenge the Democrats or Republicans or that would make them address issues they have ignored. If Nader wants to run a presidential campaign that's fine with me, I don't care. But I do think that given his past record I just wonder why there hasn't been a ground swell on the local level of support for third party candidates? Why are Green Party candidates seldom elected and why do we not have a viable third party in this country? If Nader has been working tirelessly on this front for all these years why are the results so dismal? Is it a lie that we do not have a viable third party? Is it a lie that even on a local level the two parties seem to have a strangle hold on American politics? Is it a lie that third party candidates are not winning on a level to even begin to challenge the status quo?

I have no answers to these questions. They may be beyond anyone's current knowledge. I'm not afraid of Nader nor am I demeaning his character or his accomplishments. Perhaps it will take more than a Ralph Nader to shake up this country and introduce true, dynamic change into our political system. But don't accuse me of lying when all I see are questions.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:46 PM

Quite the contrary of what you claim, I found what you said to be disrespectful, and intentionally so. Also, passive aggressive, as your last post is too. Do you think we can't tell you are oozing with hostility toward Nader? And that post after post, you state outright lies, and then turn around and claim on the one hand, the results of the man's life work are--to quote you--'dismal' and then in the same breath claim 'nor am I demeaning his character or accomplishments'.

You are as stunning an example of Rovian character to have posted here in quite some time.

And Dan--you are a liar.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:49 PM

That is a bit strong, GG. Most hypocrits do dot consider themselves to be liars. Just misunderstood.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:09 PM

But just because they don't perceive themselves as liars doesn't mean they aren't liars.

Here, for the record over at biographybase.com, is a list of some of Nader's accomplishments:

Ralph Nader Biography
Ralph Nader (born February 27, 1934) is an activist who targets large American corporations on environmental and consumer rights issues. He was the U.S. presidential candidate of the Green Party in 1996 and 2000. In both runs Winona LaDuke was his vice-presidential running mate.

He is an independent candidate in the 2004 U.S. presidential election.

Early career
Ralph Nader was born in Winsted, Connecticut to Lebanese immigrant parents, Nathra and Rose Nader. He graduated from Princeton in 1955 and Harvard Law School in 1958. In 1963, then 29, Nader hitchhiked to Washington, DC and got a job working for then Assistant Secretary of Labor Daniel Patrick Moynihan. He did freelance writing for The Nation and the Christian Science Monitor and advised a Senate subcommittee on automobile safety.

Clash with the automobile industry
In 1965 he released Unsafe at Any Speed, a study claiming many American automobiles, especially those of General Motors, to be structurally flawed. GM tried to discredit Nader, hiring private detectives to investigate his past and attempt to trap him in a compromising situation, but the effort failed. Upon learning of this harassment, Nader then successfully sued the company for invasion of privacy, forced it to publicly apologize, and used the winnings to expand his consumer rights efforts.

Activist movement
Hundreds of young activists, inspired by Nader's work, came to DC to help him with other projects. They came to be known as "Nader's Raiders" and, led by Nader, they investigated corruption throughout government, publishing dozens of books with their results:

Nader's Raiders (Federal Trade Commission)
Vanishing Air (National Air Pollution Control Administration)
The Chemical Feast (Food and Drug Administration)
The Interstate Commerce Omission (Interstate Commerce Commission)
Old Age (nursing homes)
The Water Lords (water pollution)
Who Runs Congress? (congress)
Whistle Blowing (punishment of whistle blowers)
The Big Boys (corporate executives)
Collision Course (Federal Aviation Administration)
No Contest (corporate lawyers)

In 1971, Nader founded the NGO Public Citizen as an umbrella organization for these projects. Today, Public Citizen has over 150,000 members and numerous researchers investigating Congress, health, environmental, economic, and other issues. Their work is credited with helping to pass the Safe Drinking Water Act and Freedom of Information Act and prompting the creation of the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and Consumer Product Safety Administration. Their various divisions include:

Buyers Up
Citizen Action Group
Congress Watch
Critical Mass Energy Project
Global Trade Watch
Health Research Group
Litigation Group
Tax Reform Research Group
The Visitor's Center

Non-profit organizations
In 1980 Nader resigned as director of Public Citizen to work on other projects, especially campaigning against the believed dangers of large multinational corporations. He went on to start a variety of non-profit organizations:

Capitol Hill News Service
Corporate Accountability Research Project
Disability Rights Center
Equal Justice Foundation
Georgia Legal Watch
National Citizens' Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
PROD (truck safety)
Retired Professionals Action Group
The Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
Congress Accountability Project
Citizen Advocacy Center
Pension Rights Center
Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
Center for Auto Safety
1955: Princeton Project 55
1969: Center for the Study of Responsive Law
1970s: Public Interest Research Groups
1970: Connecticut Citizen Action Group
1971: Center for Science in the Public Interest
1971: Aviation Consumer Action Project
1972: Clean Water Action Project
1972: Center for Women's Policy Studies
1980: Multinational Monitor (magazine covering multinational corporations)
1982: Trial Lawyers for Public Justice
1982: Essential Information (encourage citizen activism and do investigative journalism)
1983: Telecommunications Research and Action Center
1993: Appleseed Foundation (local change)
1994: Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees)
1995: Center for Insurance Research
1995: Consumer Project on Technology
1997?: Government Purchasing Project (encourage the government to purchase safe and healthy products)
1998: Center for Justice and Democracy
1998: Organization for Competitive Markets
1998: American Antitrust Institute (ensure fair competition)
1999?: Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
1999?: Commercial Alert (protect family, community, and democracy from corporations)
2000: Congressional Accountability Project (fight corruption in Congress)
2001?: League of Fans (sports industry watchdog)
2001: Citizen Works (promote NGO cooperation, build grassroots support, and start new groups)
2001: Democracy Rising (hold rallies to educate and empower citizens)

Now, if that is a dismal record of failure, I'll take back what I said about Dan being a liar, and a disingenuous one at that.

But it looks to me, as I peruse the above list, that either Dan doesn't know what he is talking about and is so ignorant that anything he says should be immediately dismissed as mere ranting. Or he is lying.

Since he seems otherwise intelligent, I feel confident in my conclusion he is the latter.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: number 6
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:26 PM

Thanks for that post GG. As previously mentioned Nader has done quite a lot for the American people and should be highly recognized for that.

But, Nader is a threat to the Washington machine .... and that machine is working very hard to market anything that will discredit Nader ... unfortunately I think they are doing a pretty good job at that.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: pdq
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:33 PM

"the Washington machine...is working very hard to market anything that will discredit Nader"

Quite true, but there is not just one machine, there are any number you choose recognise. The slime will come from entrenched Democrats. The Republicans can sit back and watch, periodically pointing out where the slime originates.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:37 PM

I'd really rather the Republicans would donate to his campaign like they did last time. This time, right out the gate, Nader said no political action money, no bundles from corporations, individual donations only from ANY political party members--Democrat, Repub, Libertarian, Green, any of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:37 PM

". . . vindictive streak."

GiGi, you have about the most vindictive streak of anyone whose posts I've read (more out of morbid curiosity than any hope of anything of an enlightening nature). You manage to lash out spitefully at just about everybody who doesn't agree with you, either plain name-calling or denigrating their knowledge and intelligence. As if you are somehow the fount of all knowledge.

Judging from the number of posts you make on quite a large number of threads (many of which, you started yourself), you apparently have nothing else in your life to do. In the meantime, I'm interested in the welfare of the country, so I'm working with a couple of different groups to try to put a bit of spine into the Democrats.

I've posted a links to an excellent article by Thom Hartmann a number of times here on Mudcat in the hopes that people will read it and heed it.

Here it is again:    CLICKY

In your usual manner, I'm sure you'll have something pretty vindictive to say about it, GiGi.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:51 PM

I disagree with the premise he puts forth, Don. It really is that simple.

If people choose to read into my words that I think I'm smarter than them because they disagree with my brilliant opinions, I don't have any control over that.

But don't try and intimidate me. 'Cause homey don't play dat tune.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:25 PM

Nevertheless, GiGi, history, both recent and in times further past, has shown Hartmann's premise to be right.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:37 PM

Oops. My bad.

Don, we didn't end slavery by voting on it, now did we?

Voting Rights Act never would have passed without mass protests.

Women's Suffrage wouldn't have ever passed without mass protests.

Expecting the government to fix it's own wrongdoings? It'll never happen without serious outside pressure from somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,irishenglish
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:44 PM

If the Democrats were smart, they would have Kucinich give a speech for the ultra liberal Democrats (ie, his typical supporters) chiding Nader stirring things up and unifying liberals behind Obama or Clinton. Kucinich wouldn't bash Nader for sure, but a few well chosen words could end it before it gets started. I also think a lot of this conversation might be moot, as this is not 2000, and I think a lot of Nader's supporters ligk GG above, will not be taking a chance this time around. I think his support will be far, far less in than last time, not to mention that he is getting up there agewise, and I don't think this country wants that right now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:47 PM

Why do you think Democrats need to end Ralph Nader's candidacy?

Are you afraid Clinton or Obama can't get elected on their own merit?

Or do you think the Democrats and Republicans should be able to shut out all independent and 3rd party candidates from the process?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:49 PM

Besides, if you try and shut everyone else out, they will just come in through the bathroom windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:49 PM

100!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader is coming on Meet the Press now
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:50 PM

I'm quite pleased with myself now. That makes me two for the night.