BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech

Subject: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:39 PM

I didn't see it broadcast, but have read the entire text. First impression, he hit it out of the ballpark. It is a great speech.

That said, it will also be dissected, ad nauseum.

Did it do the job of containing the damage?

Only time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:45 PM

Blicky?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Voice of Truth
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:46 PM

The damage is only starting. His speech may be well reasoned, but his actions are not so easily defended. Obama should have left the church after those heinous remarks after 9-11.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:49 PM

Clarification please ...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM

From what I've heard through the media, the speech was much better written than it was, delivered.
The question of why he would choose to belong to such a church has not been answered.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:53 PM

Oh jeez, I should have linked to it. I think I read the text at WSJ, but now it isn't coming up.

I'm at work, rushing through lunch, and don't have time to hunt it down right now.

Hopefully, someone will come along w/one soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

Transcript of speech here

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:03 PM

You can watch it here. Or read it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

Its a great speech.

He did the right thing in remaining pastor Wright's friend. Since Wright had retired by te time the words were aired. He shouldn't have to switch churches.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

He did hit it out of the ballpark.

Excellent speech.

He spoke from the heart, no packaging, no politiking .... he laid it all down the line and not only revealed himself, but also revealed all Americans.

He had to come out and do this speech ... he shone.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

My impression of the delivery is that it was bloody marvelous--he was calm, firm, clear, and warm, balanced presentation with style.

I'd call it a home run if it weren't for all the monkeys in umpire suits running around. :D Seriously he did an excellent job of framing the issue. Jim Lad, if you would listen to the speech, and read the Salon article I linked to in the other thread, your question would be answered; but I suspect you don't want an answer, really.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:05 PM

this might be useful

I think this is this is the one though

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

I'm glad to see thatt my understanding of his whole approach seems to be pretty accurate.

I don't think it's because I'm in any way particularly insightful.

I think he's an honest open trustworthy guy with a gift for communication.

You yanks'll be lucky (as will the rest of us) if you get him for prez!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

I agree it was a great speech, but I disagree vociferously there wasn't any politicking in it. There was a lot of that, and we can't lose sight of why he gave the speech to begin with--and to whom he needed to address it.

That last part especially, I'm not sure he really reached out to them.

But he likely won't lose his core support. I say likely, because a lot of people, my husband included, haven't heard, seen, or read anything yet about the You Tube videos, the controversy, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

Text Only: A Great Speech

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:08 PM

The microphones sucked, too much thumping. Otherwise it was brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

The WHOLE speech is on MSNBC.com.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

"I think he's an honest open trustworthy guy with a gift for communication."
Yup!
I'd buy a car from him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:16 PM

Here's the speech on YouTube - "We the people"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:19 PM

I disagree about him being honest or trustworthy. His record, right up until last Friday, showed he is still hiding a lot, evasive, and duplicitous. He disclosed a WHOLE lot of stuff to the Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun Times editiorial board, but it took the Wright debacle to force him to do it, under duress (and protesting too, of course, that they weren't making Clinton disclose).

I find him especially offensive in the ways he accuses the Clintons of playing the race card, being unfair, etc when all they are doing is conducting a pretty mild (especially for the Clintons) and above board election campaign. He plays the victim card too well, IMO.

The end result is, again ONLY IMO, that Obama and his supporters are the ones causing terrible divisions within the Democratic party, with their take no prisoners approach to the race.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:26 PM

Well, Iguess we have differing opinions. I find him to be FAR less duplicitous than any of the other viable candidates, far less evasive, and seriosuly interested in transparency. I think that interest is made more difficult by the slangers and defamers who make their living sreaming out controversial epithets on talk shows, for example. It is plain from listening to him thathe is cleaving to a standard of reason and unification where he can, while trying to deal with the usual attack mentality of some of the louder media, which is not an easy balance to strike. Bear in mind, he is running for an election, here; I think faulting him for political awareness in his public speeches is a bit much under the circumstances.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:26 PM

>>> he accuses the Clintons of playing the race card, being unfair, etc <<<

Can you please point to one example of him doing that?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:40 PM

I have to confess I feel a little sad and fatalistic about all this.

I think it took guts for him to be so honest about his relationship with his pastor on the one hand, and so willing to act as witness to his good character on the other.

(Sorry guestguest, yet again your assertions have little in common with what is actually going on)

I fear that he may drown in this one.

I fear that America won't have listened to his speech.

He's demonstrating complete faith in the American people to be able to rise above this with him and throwing himself on their mercy.

I don't know if America is ready to invest that faith in him.

If he does go on to win it will cetainly say something very good about America.

I think that's what he's doing. Giving "y'all" an opportunity to be great - bit like the whole Mandela campaign against poverty.

Oscar Wilde said "we are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"

I hope that Obama is right and that America is sick of being in the gutter.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:44 PM

Guestguest,

you say "IMO" meaning "In my opinion".

But you are not offering an opinion.

You are making a supposedly factual assertion.

And I'm afraid to say, it is, in fact, completely fictional.

Why not offer an opinion on the facts - ie the things that have really happened, not the things that you are magicking up from your fabulous imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:49 PM

I also see more "take no prisoners" approach in the Clinton camp's shenanigans than I do in Barack's campaign. From that perspective, it sounds like arm-waving hysterics.

In a recent post of KD'sthere was a goo d summation of such divisive tactics, quoted by Azizi:

"1. the muslim smear emails circulated by Iowa staffers
2. the "cocaine" issue raised by Billy Shaheen, Mark Penn and Bob Johnson
3. the false email sent around in NH concerning Obama's pro-choice record
4. Bill Clinton's "roll of the dice" and "fairytale" comments in NH and the subsequent dismissal of Obama's position on Iraq
5. Bill Clinton's South Carolina statements and the misquoting of Obama's statement about Reagan and ideas
6. the first negative ad (radio) in South Carolina regarding the "Reagan / ideas" statement
7. mailers in MA mispresenting Obama's Healthcare plan
8. the first negative (TV) ad in Wisconsin regarding "refusal to debate"
9. the 3 AM ad
10. the suggestion that John McCain has passed the commander-in-chief threshold but Obama hasn't
11. the claim that Obama's entire campaign is based on one speech
12. the qualified answer to Steve Croft's "Is Obama a muslim" question
13. the fake AP news story ad regarding Obama and Naftagate run in Ohio
14. Penn claiming that Obama is unelectable

The attacks range from the morally reprehensible to me (nos. 3 and 12), to the intellectually offensive (5, 6, and 11) to the ridiculous (14) to the "politics as usual" (the rest of them). However, hard to argue that Clinton has not been attacking negatively".

-KD, on March 17th, 2008 at 7:39 am."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:55 PM

Overall, I'd say the speech was better than the average presentation by a politician or would-be politician. I wonder who wrote it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM

What I want to know now is - How much was this Rev Wright payed to betray Obama.

This was the only way to knock Obama down - paint him as a black rights activist (as all black politicians obviously are).

What a complete Idiot.

I hope he's sitting somewhere thinking to himself "I fucked up the chances of the first black presidential hopeful in American history" and feeling absolutely humiliated and stupid and pathetic and like the scum of the earth.

What a complete Prick!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:00 PM

The consequences of this will show how little or how much it takes to tap into America's latent racial insecurity.

Go on America.

Show your character! Don't fall for this crap!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

The same GUEST,guest at 18 Mar 08 - 01:39 PM and at 18 Mar 08 - 02:19 PM ?

I'd agree with the earlier post's "...he hit it out of the ballpark. It is a great speech", but not with the later one's "evasive, and duplicitous."

Very impressive indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:28 PM

"Obama's performance today makes it brilliantly clear why he is twice the candidate that either Hillary or John is. It was balanced, well-thought-out, and fair. There was no hatred in it (unlike the arm-waving frothing of some of the above commentators). It was insightful, firm, and beautifully delivered. I would suggest that those who are so deeply embroiled in rancor and upset about Mister Wright's orations step back and try to remember what it is you want for the nation, as a leader.

You will not find a better man than Barack Obama anywhere in the pool, and would be wise to look at that clearly and plainly. He's the best we have anywhere in the hustings. One reason? He refuses to jump around because the media has started some sort of firestorm about something. He is keeping his eye on our main chance for reversing the degradation of this nation suffered under the current administration and its anti-intellectual forebears. For the love of decency, and the repair of AMerican dignity, he should be elected without further ado."

Boston Globe Blog

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:28 PM

Seems like a darned good speech to me.

We shall see now if Americans in general can rise above the tendency to be mean, petty, parochial, judgemental, and paranoid. We shall see if they can rise above the tendency to demand far greater perfection of their prospective leaders than they would ever dream of demanding of themselves.

Got my fingers crossed on that.

I still believe miracles are possible. They're just not all that common.

I think that the political process forces all its participants to be duplicitious to some extent. They can't escape the perverting effects of the political process and its demands upon them. If any candidate were to be wholly truthful and were to say directly all that he really thinks, he would not have a chance in hell of getting elected, because the great majority people cannot bear to hear the truth in its entirety.

Such a person would be utterly crucified by the national media and the entire system. He would be in the same spot that Jesus was in 2,000 years ago...headed for an early and violent death.

Someone who tells the whole truth without fear to this society is first laughed at, then ridiculed, then attacked full force with every procedural means at hand, and then? Well, ways are found to silence them.

Obama is certainly not going to tell the whole truth or express everything as he truly sees it. He will be duplicitious to some extent. They all will. Their political survival depends upon that. They cannot do otherwise. They must walk the walk that is expected of them.

Given that, I think he has made a very good speech and probably done the best he could under the circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:02 PM

"I wonder who wrote it."
Goes to the point I was making earlier.
If he wrote it but didn't do such a great job of delivering it, that's fine.
If it turns out to be someone Else's work then that's a different kettle of fish.
Mind you. No-one else has been given the same opportunity to answer campaign smears. Five days to write a speech and free airtime is a lot to give any candidate who is supposed to react quickly under pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:07 PM

HE writes all his own speeches; a fact that has been frequently reported. Why try to get all underhanded about it? ANd his delivery was excellent.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM

Art:

The whole point about Barack Obama is that he embodies the difference you say characterizes his speech; that's what wins people to his camp.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:17 PM

...headed for an early and violent death.   There is always that possibility.
...........................................

If he wrote it but didn't do such a great job of delivering it, that's fine.

I'd have said his delivery was up to the quality of the speech. Or put it another way, the speech was up to the quality of the delivery.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:24 PM

He nailed it.



but


CNN is sadly cherry picking remarks out of context.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Beer
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:35 PM

Typical for CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:41 PM

The mass media always do that, resulting in most politicians just talking in sound bites.

It's impressive that Obama has insisted on making coherent speeches that do not insult the public. Fortunately, thanks to the Internet, anybody who is interested in listening to them can do so. The broadcasters can cherry pick, but they have at last lost the power to suppress everything they choose to ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:43 PM

I don't even begin to understand people - who don't even have a dog in the hunt - that take it upon themselves to belittle, defame and dismiss someone that others are drawn to, are interested in sharing views of that person and want to in the process get to know that person better.

Obviously being a good musician does not equate with having good judgment. I have always thought I would love to have musicians as neighbors. I'm no longer so sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:44 PM

I'm only going by what one political commentator has said.
Amos: Stop attacking everyone who disagrees with you. It's driving people away.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:51 PM

I just finished listening and I loved the speech. Backed into a corner where he has a choice between A or B, he pick M. I have to respect that!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:53 PM

I was also wondering if the enthusiastic "Guest-Guest" is the same "Guest-Guest" who is generally critical of Obama. They could be the same. One can be impressed with the strength of the speech for dealing with the present crisis ("Great speech!"), and still doubt whether the man can achieve anything significant. Time for GiGi to become a Mudcat member before she's lost in identity theft. Just a thought!

I certainly encourage everyone to read it through carefully.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:00 PM

I'm only going by what one political commentator has said.

You can find political commentators who say just about anything. We pick out the ones to credit either on the basis that they have a particularly good record of getting it right, or that they have said something we agree with.
........................
The evidence appears to be that Obama is a pretty good writer, quite capable of writing a good speech. What politicians generally do in campaigns is to have writers who draft speeches based on their general style of speaking and their known policy positions, with the expectation being that these will be used as the basis for the speech, adjusted and interpreted by the person delivering it.

In the case of this speech it would seem more likely that Obama would in fact have written it himself, probably running it over with colleagues before delivering it.

This is a bit of a circus, but that doesn't mean the acrobats aren't doing it for real.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:04 PM

After that particular speech, I suspect the next shoe to drop will be that of John Edwards.

Charley, I think you can be critical of people sometimes because you expect more from them. I think Obama might have done a bit more with that speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:14 PM

The speech spoke volumes about Obama's courage and strength...

It reminded me of listening to Dr. King...

The P-Vine, who is generally purdy much apolitical, sat down to listen to just a couple minutes of it but ended up sitting there for the entire speech and I could tell that she was close to tears during some parts of it...

So was I...

People don't come around like Obama too often... Not to mean he is a god or anything... But, IMO, a gift from God...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:17 PM

I think the problem with tthat speech as a political tool was that it didn't get to the "unity" aspect quickly enough.

It built up to it well for those who have the patience to listen to that kind of thing, but for many people, wanting the meat and potatoes there and then, it may have taken too long to get of the ground with the result that people have lost concentration when the important stuff came through.

The Battle cry was "change" - now it's "unity".

Genius in terms of taking the baton and running with it. Taking the worst of the situation and using it to his advantage.

Is it clear enough and resounding enough to do the job.

... hmmm ... I just can't call it either way ...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:19 PM

Just for the record, I'm all for Unity!

That would be one hell of a change!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

Mind you. No-one else has been given the same opportunity to answer campaign smears. Five days to write a speech and free airtime is a lot to give any candidate who is supposed to react quickly under pressure.

And just how is anyone stopping the other candidates from doing this? He had made statements about the issue earlier, he just chose to make a comprehensive speech about it rather than relying on sound bytes alone. Maybe if others tried this they would find that their speech would be aired as well. And the fact that he took a few days to craft the speech is not a problem in my book. Given the way these things are sliced and diced it makes much more sense than making a fairly lengthy speech about a sensitive issue off-the-cuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: number 6
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:40 PM

"The Battle cry was "change" - now it's "unity"."

Change through unity (that's the message) ..... the only way change can be accomplished.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM

The media cherry picks and deals in sound bites partly because it's easier and quicker for them to do that than it would be dealing comprehensively with something...and partly because they figure the public has too short an attention span to pay attention to anything comprehensive.

Unfortunately, though, the more they do that...the more they accustom people to thinking in terms of a few brief sound bites...the more it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy to say that the public doesn't have the attention span to pay attention to anything more than a brief sound bite.

If you feed people a diet of spam long enough, after awhile they tend to forget they ever ate anything else, right?

Musicians, Ebbie, are much like other people, with the same character flaws and shortcomings...except in this one respect. They're great to play music with! ;-) Keep this in mind, and you won't be so disillusioned about them. I have long had to come to terms with the fact that my fellow musicians aren't necessarily any nicer or kinder or wiser than most folks around me are.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama's Defining Moment Speech
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM

The high pitched voice of the conservative talking head on CNN was condemning Obama for not delivering a speech as effective as Dr. Martin Luther King's jail house speech. HAHAHAHA The best he could do was nay say anything the liberal black lady would say.

Is Barak guilty of knowing a passionate populist pastor of a predominately white church, HELL YES.

I however believe that Barak is guilty of not being a preacher and speaking in eloquent measured secular tones of civility and reason, all served upon a healthy bed of truth.

Trying to make Barak answer for the pent up hatred of the early black activists is wrong. Barak is the new voice of minority America that has sought after and achieved excellence.



Lets not be tempted into playing the conservative game of gotcha.
We could easily be tempted to accuse various people of knowing pastors like Falwell who said some pretty stupid and inflamatory shit.