Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question

Subject: Folklore: Torkshire dielect question
From: GUEST,Play.Ford
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:08 AM

I asked a question on E-ceilidh and no real answer came out of it.

The word is "clogdop" and the context was Barn Dance / Ceilidh.

Does anyone from Yorkshire recognise the word? What region is it from? Does it have a wider meaning?

Or is this too obscure?

Someone thought clod-hop would be related but to me clod-hopping refers to an ungainly gait or wearing heavy boots (or the boots, as in clod-hoppers).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dielect question
From: GUEST,Play.Ford
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:10 AM

Just when you thought you had the hang of this forum you miss the spelling - can anyone remedy this?


should be Yorkshire.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Torkshire dielect question
From: the button
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:25 AM

Could you give us a sentence that it might have appeared in?

I must admit, it doesn't sound familiar (and I used to play in a ceilidh band in East Yorkshire).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Torkshire dielect question
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:15 AM

Could be a bit of a mickey-take or "In-joke" by referring to a Ceilidh / Barn Dance as a clog - bop which I think is quite a good laugh.
Otherwise you missed the moment completely when someone was telling you the bogs or something else,were clogdop - which is quite something else .

Cheers

Besty

Subject: RE: Folklore: Torkshire dielect question
From: GUEST,squeezeboxkc
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:42 AM

could it be CLOGGED UP this is west riding speak for a blockage

Subject: RE: Folklore: Torkshire dielect question
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM

Nope

This does not appear in Nigel Hudleston's [spelling here is correct]Yorkshire Glossary of words and sayings

Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:04 PM

Does that one contain the three identical words which mean 'it is not inside the metal box' Ray?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:18 PM

Tin't in.

Dave

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,Play.Ford
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:21 PM

tin tin tin?

Clog Bop I can understand. the source was not a ceilidh dancer as I understand it. More an engineer or family member of a Barn Dance/Ceilidh band.
Bop is a good 1960's type of word for a dance, eg jive was referred to as a bopping (mother tells me).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: the button
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

You've a tin missing, Dave. ;-)

Tintintin.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

I like the notice on the shop door in Rotherham "You can't come in while we're open"

John

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 06:06 PM

And the shop in Otley 'Brian Pickles Lawnmowers'

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 06:24 PM

Well, at least Brian doesn't deep fry them in batter!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Willa
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 06:39 PM

't i'nt in tin (it isn't in the tin)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 07:31 PM

Question from Tom Bliss (summarised): Is it in the Book?

Answer from FD - (me): 'Tin't in.
'
Perfctly grammatical. People daring to correct my dialect? Punctuation were a bit iffy mind........ :-)

Ah'll get mi coert.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM

Just a thought, but aren't clogs more related to Lancashire? I wondered if it could be something to do with clog morris or similar. Can I suggest some Mudelf changes the thread name in the hope that others might pick it up. Not everyone is interested in my belovéd area.

Blessings
Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,fantum
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 08:25 AM

Could it be Clodhop which would be a shoe
Though I would use the term Clodhopper to describe someone thats clumsy with his feet

Clodhoppers are heavy, leather broad-bottomed shoes worn by farm persons. The broad soles of the shoes permit the foot to span lumpy clods left from plowing and other cultivating. Hence, there was born the idea that the shoe enabled feet to hop over clods.

Some Americans living in the South, as well as many African Americans use the term "clodhoppers" to refer to any kind of shoes.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 02:09 PM

I Like Crag rat [nowt to do wi this tho]

And came up in converstion today: ~

The lovely word "smittle" when someone accused another of passing a cold to someone!

"Ah'll get me coit" like Dave Eyre but ah come frum Barnsley!

Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 02:21 PM

and "nesh"? Interesting this one - it got my attention on E-coli.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: r.padgett
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 02:50 PM

"Nesh" ~ Yorkshire Dialect as ~

Nice, over nice, particular, choosy, tender, delicate

often used when someone says that they are "cau'd" = cold

Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 03:27 PM

We don't have a dialect in Yorkshire. A lot o' them other buggers 'ave tho'.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 04:32 PM

nesh

Used to describe southerners who can't stand the bracing climate.
It's used in Northumbrian/Durham, never heard it as far south as Barnsley . . .
Clogs are Northumbrian too. For proper clogging.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 08:04 PM

'Nesh' is common usage in Sheffield, though not used with any regional prejudice in my experience. Lancashire retained its clog dancing tradition more widely and recently than Yorkshire (largely, I suspect, through stage connections) but clogs as such are not, I think, 'more related' to Lancashire; or the north-east, for that matter. The clog shop on Lady's Bridge in Sheffield is long gone, though.

As for 'clogdop', you should ask Pete Smith of Sheffield City Morris when he gets back from Australia. I think he was partly responsible for the 'medup' morris style, and it sounds rather up his street.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Dave Higham
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:27 AM

Born in Shafton, lived 40 years in Sheffield, we all knew what nesh means. It describes people who don't want to go for a dip in the sea at Brid. (at Easter).

So here's another one for you. What are the origins of 'mardy' (sp?).
As in "Yer mardy bugger. Why waint tha gu fra swim?"! I have my own theory.

Then there's 'tekkin umbrage', I could go on...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:38 AM

I checked the unabridged dictionary, and it does not have 'clogdop.'

However, it does have 'clogdoggo,' which means 'an encumbrance.' This word appeared in the writing of Ben Jonson.

I can imagine 'clogdoggo' losing its Spanish-sounding ending and turning into 'clogdop' over the centuries.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 10:55 AM

"Tekkin Umberage" is being offended by someone making a comment which they don't like

"Mardy" origins not known ~ but describes a persons feelings in a situation such as not being inclined to bathe in the sea at Easter at "Brid" when the others have probably "had one or two"

Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Dave Higham
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:00 PM

I'd lived in France for nearly 20 years before I came across the phrase 'il a pris ombrage'. You'd think it might mean he's gone to sit in the shade but it doesn't. It means ''e's tekken umbrage'. Just as Ray says. Taken offense (and perhaps gone off to sulk).

What about the origins of 'mardy' though. Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:26 PM

For those not familiar with the hanky waving tradition of Sheffield City Morris - a cotswold style team - the Medup tradition was first discovered during the long hot summer of 1976 when the reservoir was much drier than usual.

There lying in the mud of the Midhope Reservoir photograph here was discovered an old oak chest. There in an old manuscript safely shielded by the watertightness of the oak which had swelled up in the water and also by the oilskin covering, lay the instructions to the various Midhope Dances as performed by Sheffield City Morris. The team practice in Burton St. Centre where the Doc Rowe archive is stored http://www.docrowe.org.uk/index.html
and the original manuscripts are in excellent storage conditions there.

Midhope gradually became Medhope and then Medoap and thus Medup.

Can't see where dialect comes into that. I am most surprised at Malcolm Douglas whose research and respect for the facts is normally exemplary.

Smithy lands at Manchester a week on Friday i.e. April 4th at 7.00 am.It is believed Annie will be going back to work whilst himself will be learning what it is like to be reitred.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:33 PM

Nesh also means a fancy dan footballer (like those of Sheffield Wednesday) who flinches away from a tackle with a no-necked full back who had been fed on raw meat.

Example in use: "Tha's neshed it".

Derivation? Well "nose" probably and frightened of getting broken. Similarly Dave Higham's explanation of being frightened to go into the sea at Brid at Easter applies also. Frightened of some part of the anatomy - here nose is a euphemism - dropping off.

Though I must admit a modicum of surpise at M. Higham as we call him now forgetting the origin of Medup. I blame the wine.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:34 PM

Retirement highly recommended

Mr Eyre is no doubt in demand for his embellished Shaggy Dog stories somewhere

Just joking Dave!

Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Dave Higham
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM

You know what, Dave? A lot of people are going to believe you!

I can tell Smithy what it's like to be 'reitred'. It's grand.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:39 PM

"Gradely Dave, "gradely". As in "Lassies". Surely you remember them?

Shaggy Dog stories? I have introduced the dances with that story since time immoral. Are you claiming it isn't true?

Ah'm a bit miffed abart that. And I could get mardy.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Dave Higham
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:47 PM

I have to admit I nearly said gradely but it sounded a bit 'stage Yorkshire'.

Tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman...... but not much.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Snuffy
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 02:07 PM

One theory about "mardy" - was originally "marred" = spoilt, petulant,prima-donna-ish, etc

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 02:39 PM

Nar mi owd.

T'origins date back to fishin' when a bloke failed to catch a fish it wor said he had missed art.........and the slovenly speech patterns of the S. Yorkshire folk eventually elided this "missd art" to mart and then mardy indicating he'd got face on.

There is even a tennis player named after the story!!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Dave Higham
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 04:40 PM

Tha meeans, "Na'then mi owd, ar's it gooin", which, as we all know is an almost literal translation from the French of "Eh beh mon vieux, comment ça va?"

As for mardy. There's always been an enemy. Long before Bin Laden and Saddam there was 'Itler and before him Kaiser Bill, etc. and in 1885 the British forces under General "Chinese" Gordon were beaten at Khartoum by The Mad Mahdi. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,Chris P.
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 06:29 PM

In my tender years in Manchester one might be a Mard Bugger, so I go for "marred" as above.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: r.padgett
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 04:55 AM

"Gradely" is a Lancastrian import "flowers"

Ray

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 09:58 AM

Never ask an Englishman where he's from. If he's from Yorkshire he'll tell you. If he is not, it is unfair to embarrass him!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 04:53 AM

I first hears the word 'nesh' in the Potteries

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Mo the caller
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 06:04 AM

Guest John said
I like the notice on the shop door in Rotherham "You can't come in while we're open"

My Yorkshire born and bred OH tells the story of the level crossing notices
"Stop here while light is red"
that had to be changed because "while" means the opposite in Yorkshire to it's meaning in the South of England.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Yorkshire dialect question
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 06:07 AM

Two blokes passing in the street one with six rolls of wallpaper under his arm.

Decorating?

No, flittin.