Condi Needs to Go

Subject: Condi Needs to Go (And Other Scandals)
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:34 PM

Guns, God, and Bitter
Ê
(Distirbuted by Democracy for America" and completely self-explanatory.)


"You might have noticed there's a presidential election happening. It's kind of a big deal, but you wouldn't be able to tell that from the ABC debate last night.

America wants to hear how our candidates will handle the tough issues, but evidently ABC is more interested in gotcha politics and trumped up gossip.

Questions on the economy? Nope. The war? Not really. Global warming, jobs, $4 gas? Why would America want to know about that?

Yesterday, Democracy for America, True Majority and Brave New Films released a smoking gun video of Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice lying to Congress. We bought ad time in Philadelphia and pressured ABC to ask: Will Senators Clinton and Obama call on Secretary Rice to resign?

I guess ABC couldn't be bothered with important questions. After all, it's only America's reputation in the world that's at stake. Join me in asking the question that ABC won't ask.

Sign our petition to the candidates right now:
www.CondiMustGo.com

The campaign is taking off and getting covered across the country; from newspapers like the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post to blogs like Huffington Post and Daily Kos. Here's John Nichols writing for The Nation:


"Despite the fact that it received little coverage in the media, it was revealed that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice personally presided over meetings where top administration officials reviewed, selected and then encouraged the use of specific torture techniques.

To help the media and the candidates focus on fundamental issues, TrueMajority.org, Democracy for America and Brave New Films -- the people who campaigned so successfully for the removal of former Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez -- have launched a new website, www.CondiMustGo.com and a television ad campaign demanding the resignation of secretary of state."

We need Senators Clinton and Obama demanding her resignation and working to hold the Bush administration accountable. When we hit 100,000 signatures we will deliver them directly to all the presidential candidates.

Sign the petition now:
www.CondiMustGo.com

Am I upset with the network coverage of the presidential campaigns? Yes. In fact, you might say I'm bitter. But I'm going to do something about it. Join me and sign the petition now.

Thank you for taking action,

...

P.S. In case you missed Jim's message yesterday announcing this campaign, I have included it below.

------------------------------------------------------------------------




...
You and I suspected it. Now, ABC News confirms it.1

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice chaired repeated White House meetings approving specific torture techniques before they were used -- then lied about it to Congress.

Now Brave New Films put it all together in a "smoking gun" video. That's why, Democracy for America is partnering with True Majority and Brave New Films to launch an aggressive national campaign with a simple message: Condi Must Go.

Watch the video and sign the petition now.

www.CondiMustGo.com

This is the first time concrete evidence shows that senior White House officials, "not only discussed specific plans and specific interrogation methods, but approved them."

The torture meetings were gruesome in detail, often choreographed "down to the number of times a CIA agent could use a specific tactic" or combination of tactics.

The ABC news report makes it crystal clear that torture committed in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay were not isolated incidents by a few "bad apples". In fact, these incidents were standard operating procedure dictated at the highest level of government and led by the current Secretary of State. Her directives to the CIA were unambiguous, "This is your baby, go do it."

Join me in signing the "Condi Must Go" petition right now.

www.CondiMustGo.com

Don't sit this petition out because you think Secretary Rice is untouchable. When we joined with Brave New Films to push for the impeachment of Alberto Gonzales last year, no one thought he would ever be forced out of office. Our critics were wrong then, and they are wrong now.

That's why we're working with True Majority and Brave New Films to expose the truth about Condoleezza Rice. Today, we launch the petition. Tonight, we start a media campaign with a 30-second ad airing on ABC immediately after tonight's Presidential debate.

We will not stop until Condoleezza Rice is held accountable. Sign the petition now.

www.CondiMustGo.com

Working together, we move America forward. Thank you for everything you do.

-Jim

Jim Dean
Chair

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:34 PM

(Please move to BS. Sorry! A.)

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:04 AM

Thanks Amos

signed & delivered

Barry

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 10:49 AM

I know it's a sort of political Spam. But there are half a dozen instances of Condolezza affirming to the world that the United States does not condone torture; while new evidence suggests she chaired meetings defining detailed methods thereof including the infamous drowning torture. Did we include "must be an energetic, persuasive liar with low conscience" in the want ad or something?


A

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 11:22 AM

I got it and signed it, yesterday. I was appalled at the low-quality of questions during the debate. This whole damn administration should be kicked out on their collective asses and put on trial for crimes against humanity.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 11:27 AM

Condi will play her one note piano concerto in Bush flat for just a few more months. She may even get a reward and then cast away just like the assitant attorney general who decided the preisential vote count in Florida.

She will become reborn like Oliver North and appear as an expert for a fee.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 11:33 AM

D'ya think she'll end up having to hock that supertanker?


A

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:09 PM

"She will become reborn like Oliver North and appear as an expert for a fee."


                That's exactly right. There was a time when I thought nobody would ever be listening to Oliver North again, but I was certainly wrong. Even G. Gordon Liddy has made it back into the public media. Of course, being a convicted felon there are a number of things he can't do, but...

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Peace
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:11 PM

Why is Congress not demanding the impeachment of Bush and what's'is-face?

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 02:30 PM

One reason (Conyers', I believe) is that he does not want to open the Republican Pandora's box of counter-attacks against the idea while the Dems are still campaigning, or possibly before November's general election, because it could cost too much in consequences.

Another reason, for some individuals, is that they have no stomach for the fight.

A

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Riginslinger
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:49 PM

Frankly, it seems kind of pointless to me at this point. They'll be gone in January anyway.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 08:04 PM

But...isn't there still a chance she could run as McCain's VP???? ;-) Then just think...he might pop off midterm and then Condi gets to be Commander in Chief!

Heh! She is the closest thing to a fully-fledged "dragon lady" that I've ever seen outside of the comics. She makes my blood run cold.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 10:35 PM

Rig:

I don't think genuine, life-threatening crime on this scale should be brushed off by a political term limit.


A

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Barry Finn
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:11 AM

This is not just a cime, it's treason! It's a crime aginst humanity & it's a "war crime".
Not something to be looked at lightly, not some misdemeanor that can wait to be dealt with. This should've been handled immediately, publicly & harshly.
Why is this not a World Court issue if we can't deal with? Just because we didn't sign on?
This is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.
Where is the outcry, where is the media, where are the canidates on this issue, cowards all!

Barry

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Deckman
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:36 AM

Hmmm?

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 11:55 PM

She came to speak this past Friday to my family, and to the families (of the slain 16 other Americans and 35 Lebanese) attending the commemoration of the 25th anniversary of the very first suicide bombing of one of our embassies (I've started a thread on that). She was tiny, for one thing, I had no clue she was that short, and she really didn't speak to us at all, but to the Lebanese and the Lebanese public (their TV was there), which is, of course, her job. I was, however, annoyed that she didn't talk to us.

During the autopsy, as we call the talking-over-after-an-event, I noticed that she'd pretty much annoyed the Democrats and impressed the Republicans. Ferry interrestink.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: fumblefingers
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:29 PM

Make Condi sign a pledge not to approve giving wedgies to terrorists anymore. It's inhuman.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 11:18 AM

Well, if Condi needs to go they should make a restroom available for her! Sheesh, talk about your "good ol' boys club!" And maybe she'll fall in as she flushes and, whooosh! out to the Potomac she goes. But no, wait, I think Cheney flushes for W for that very reason. Maybe W has the flushes for Condi.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Peace
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 01:20 PM

Why is she not yet up on criminal charges? (Or Bush and Cheney for that matter?)

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 01:44 PM

Peace - that is exactly the question. Why the hell not?

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Peace
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 01:50 PM

"Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Riginslinger - PM
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:49 PM

Frankly, it seems kind of pointless to me at this point. They'll be gone in January anyway."

Rig: If that's all the USA is about now, then I guess you're right. However there are many people in the present administration who have indeed broken the law. The thinking exemplified in your post is that as long as they 'go away' then whatever they did while in office is OK. IMO, it's not enough that they leave office. They broke your laws. Do your laws mean nothing now? I can't believe you mean that posy.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 01:52 PM

Why? Because they're effectively above the law, that's why. They are the ruling class of a dictatorship, not a democracy. They own the courts and the media and the armed forces and the police and the CIA. The elections are merely a regularly scheduled gigantic PR exercise to keep the common people thinking it's a democracy. Didn't you know that? The government wins every election...and the government doesn't serve us! Oh, no. We serve it. If we refuse to serve it as it desires, WE are the ones who go up on criminal charges.

That's a dictatorship. (whether or not it holds phony "elections" that change nothing)

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM

OH, Little Hawk...you are such a RADICAL!!! I bet you build bombs in your treehouse for fun.


A

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:10 PM

No, Amos. I recognize that there are things I can't change...and besides, bombs hurt people. I would definitely not want to hurt anyone. Nor to damage property either.

I'm fairly much like a Taoist, Amos. I do not seek out conflict. I do not expect to change the world or to change others. I just am what I am, I maintain that, and I observe as best I can what is going on around me and I try to understand it. I will only be here a short while, and I know that, but I'd like to understand it while I'm here.

You will not find me engaging in revolutionary actions. To do so would be to place myself directly in the jaws of a ravening beast.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:09 PM

She hasn't been charged because of the Attorney General's legal opinions. Mukasey won't resolve the matter formally or publically, for reasons we do not know.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:20 PM

People like Condi, Bush, and Cheney only get charged when (and if) the $ySStem decides they are now dispensable and that it would be advantageous to the $ySStem's ongoing strategic plans to have them be charged. The $ySSTem has not yet made those decisions, and will in all probability never do so...but we'll have to wait and see.

This is how it works in the halls of power. The figureheads and the powerbrokers only go down when they are meant to, and when they do go down it's not on behalf of law, justice, moral principles or the public interest. It's a matter of expediency.

There are also internal power struggles inside the $ySStem itself between some of the key players. There always are those. Such internal power struggles can result in charges being brought against certain players...such as the actions brought against Bill Clinton after the Monica Lewinsky thing.

Again, it wasn't in the interests of law, justice, moral principles or the public interest in any respect...but it was a huge media and government show that served certain larger purposes, I'm sure. It helped set the stage for the next phase in governmental control...the Bush & Cheney phase.

It may be that something vaguely like that happens to Bush, Cheney or Rice at some point. If so, it will be similar strategic moves toward establishing the next phase in governance.

The furniture will get rearranged.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:46 AM

Actually, Ron Paul looks better and better.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 09:27 AM

Doesn't a lady have the right to lie about her age.....and torture?

Isn't lieing to Congress normal?

No Condi will stay, unless there is proof that whe is W's mistress.

One of the first telling acts by this administration was to make itself immune and apart from domestic and international war crime prosecution.

Their punishment will have to come from some kind of Star Chamber.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Peace
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 10:18 AM

That's where their reward will come from, Don.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:40 PM

"Isn't lying to Congress normal?"

LOL! My point exactly, Donuel. Let me add, "Isn't lying to the public normal?"

Lying is a basic requirement of the job.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 12:49 PM

THere's smudging and fudging -- the kind of tapdancing any politician has to be good at. THen there's lying.

And no, it is not normal. It is sociopathic, destructive, and narcissistic behaviour.

When you give people who are rightfully involved in a situation a false story of the situation, you are undermining their sanity and their right to execute their responsibilities. That's anti-social.


A

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 01:08 PM

"Normal" isn't a word that means "good", "healthy", or anything else positive like that, Amos. It is a word that means "in line with the norm", meaning in line with what the majority do or what is the usual practice.

For instance, savage killing is normal in wartime and in the Mafia. Drug dealing is normal in certain neighborhoods of certain cities. Lying is normal in politics.

There are certain very specific lies, of course, under certain very specific circumstances that will definitely bring down a politician and destroy his or her career...providing the prevailing $ySStem and the media decide it's time for that to happen.

Whether they do so decide is not up to you and me, Amos, and it has little or nothing to do with moral principles.

The same type of bad behaviour that goes unnoted and probably unreported a thousand times will be leaped upon and publicized by mainstream media everywhere when it is considered "the right time" for that. That's when a politician has been deemed expendable by the larger forces around him or her for whatever reason. That's how it works. It's a game.

They go down when they are meant to...when there's a power shift at the higher levels. Until then they are quite free to lie their faces off as long as they say what they are supposed to say in order to keep the great game moving along as required.

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: GUEST,btyan wallick
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:54 PM

Ms. Rice wether you are outwardly evil or wether you have boughy, or blackmailed into following the orders of your evil cohorts, You most definately need to step dowm. all pictures i see of you speak volumes. You are a broken spirit. Please for the love of all that is good go home!

Subject: RE: Condi Needs to Go
From: Amos
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 09:08 PM

Thanks, Professor. But it is sociopathic and well below the norm of conscious human behaviour.


A