BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 05 May 08 - 04:20 PM

another case

At least these parents did take the children to dinner with them!

Maybe you will accept my word that until they are PROVEN guilty they are assumed innocent. The so called 'fact' you gave in yor opening post is, at present, nothing but a complete fabrication on your part.

Nobody is disagreeing that people are innocent until proven guilty but since they have admitted leaving the children alone then that is a fact. What somebody thinks may have happened is not the same as them saying it actually has happened.

I feel very sorry and sad that this child has gone missing and has not yet been found but I find it difficult to have sympathy with her parents because of their behaviour since it has happened. Despite the fact that, undeniably, they will be suffering they have managed to take the p*** and make a lot of people look fools. I keep my sympathy for the child and her siblings.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 05 May 08 - 05:04 PM

"If what they did is against the law why do you think that they have still not been charged with anything, 12 months after the event."

Dave THEY ADMITTED THEY LEFT THEIR THREE CHILDREN ALONE !

"Maybe you will accept my word that until they are PROVEN guilty they are assumed innocent."

THEY HAVE ADMITTED Dave.

"the very law that you seem so keen to uphold does seem to make your statement of 'fact' somewhat ridiculous".

FACT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED BECAUSE OF THEIR ADMISSION Dave.

Words fail me on this occasion. Do you know the case we are talking about Dave ? Think for a moment, three year old girl. Last May, parents doctors. Got it yet ?

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 May 08 - 07:28 PM

Victor, please stop speaking like an American 1950's comic. I did it to highlight the word 'proven' and as soon as I did it I realised my mistake. I apologise for doing so.

Let me put it simply. Have the McCanns been found guilty of anything in a court of law? Please stick to that question in your response. It is realy easy - Just a yes or no.

Thank you.

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: akenaton
Date: 06 May 08 - 03:14 AM

Come on Dave...I sometimes play devil's advocate myself, but I draw the line at making the case for child neglect.

The McCanns have admitted neglect so why cite the legal process..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 08 - 03:32 AM

I have never made a case for child neglect, Ake. I am only disputing the 'fact' that Victor quoted in his opening post. The reason we have an established and respected legal system is so all the 'facts' can become known before the courts. While I can quite agree that it was very wrong for the McCanns to leave their children alone I cannot say they are 'guilty of neglect' under, as we have subsequently been made aware, the Children and Young Persons Act of 1933. The reason for this is that they have never been brought to trial. Until they are and until their guilt is proven by law I am afraid that I will continue to point out that they have had no criminal proceedings brought against them. I, for one, would rather trust our criminal justice system, flawed as it can be, over and above trial by mudcat.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 06 May 08 - 04:52 AM

Thanks Dave.

I would like to know the reason why the police haven't charged them with child neglect after they admitted doing it several nights that week on television.

I could be wrong, but in a case were someone makes an admission to a crime no trail is required, they are charged, then receive a date for sentencing. I remember a guy here year ago who walked into a police station and admitted a crime he committed some years back. Then after a short investigation He was charged. He appeared before a judge and was sentenced.

Dave, they admitted to the crime of neglect.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 May 08 - 06:14 AM

The neglect which (allegedly) the've admitted, didn't take place within the UK and surely cannot therefore fall within the jurisdiction of UK law-enforcement authorities or our courts?

The case is still under investigation by Portugese police. They may not yet deem it appropriate to charge anyone, in case it prejudices their ongoing investigations for instance.

Let's leave it to them. Ranting on about them on here is doing no-one any good (except maybe the ranters, whose attempts at occupation of The High Moral Ground probably massage their own egos).

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 May 08 - 08:07 AM

The case is still under investigation by Portugese police. They may not yet deem it appropriate to charge anyone, in case it prejudices their ongoing investigations for instance.

I think you could be spot on there.

I'm not holding my breath on this one, but if the parents would "fade from the limelight" as they have expressed a wish to do a lot of people would not feel the need to go on.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 May 08 - 10:05 AM

I could be wrong, but in a case were someone makes an admission to a crime no trail is required

I would be very interested in seeing where that has happened. Surely a trial is always required prior to sentencing. Well, unless you happen to be the wrong religion and end up in Guatanamo Bay but that is a different kettle of fish altogether. The trial may only consist of one question, 'How do you plead?' and one answer 'guilty' but that is still a trial all the same.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 06 May 08 - 03:49 PM

While I wouldn't claim to know anything about Portugese law, I don't think British law applies in Portugal. Nevertheless, as Victor rightly says, they are undoubtedly guilty of willful neglect whether or not they have, or are going to be, charged with breaking any law. What they did was wrong, and in my opinion their so-called friends appear to have been accessories to that wrong-doing as well. I am amazed that the British social services have allowed them to continue 'looking after' their remaining children. I can only hope that the authorities here and in Portugal are in possession of more facts than are commonly available, and are acting accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Emma B
Date: 06 May 08 - 04:28 PM

Representatives of the McCann family attended a service in Praia de Luz last weekend.
Their lawyers advised the parents not to return to Portugal.

Child neglect is a crime in Portugal too.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Emma B
Date: 06 May 08 - 04:58 PM

The 'Tapas Seven' are the friends who dined with Kate and Gerry McCann on the night of the four-year-old's disappearance.

They had also put their children to bed and gathered in a Tapas bar 'near' their apartments despite the fact that one of the children, that of Jane Tanner and her partner Dr Russell O'Brien was known to be 'sick'

Of course their friends support their actions MikeS.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Victor in Mapperton
Date: 06 May 08 - 05:06 PM

Sorry for the thread drift,thought this story interesting.

A couple who allegedly passed out drunk last Friday while on holiday had their children taken into care in Portugal.

Hotel staff in Vilamoura called police because the children in the would not stop crying.The children are aged one, two and six.

The parents, Eamon and Antoinette McGuckin are from County Londonderry in Northern Ireland. The parents believe something was added to both their drinks in a bar which made them pass out! No one else in the bar that night reported anything wrong with their drinks.
The mother said she could not understand why Portuguese authorities took the action they did against the couple.

The family had been expected to appear before a family court on Tuesday afternoon (today), but the Foreign Office said it believed they had returned home after collecting the children. They added there were no legal restrictions on them having to stay, and there was no obligation for them to be in court.The powers of the Portuguese court are only effective as long as the children were in the country, hence their hasty departure home before their court appearance this afternoon.

The British social services have been informed of the procedures which have been undertaken and asked to evaluate the need of promoting and protecting the rights of these three children.


The manager of the hotel said the couple and their three children went out for dinner on Friday. Upon their arrival back at the hotel about two hours later, Mr McGuckin passed out on a sofa in reception while Mrs McGuckin fell asleep in the bar.A staff member said the children were crying and they could not revive the parents, who were both out cold. Social services were called and dealt with the children.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 06 May 08 - 08:07 PM

And to think we're the dominant species...

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:35 AM

No, NOT EVERY parent

But we should beware being hypocrites on the subject. Every parent, surely, has a near-miss story, when inattention or a bad decision - often made for selfish reasons - could have led to their child's death.

This has been taken from the link above and we will, no doubt, be subjected to even more of it now that the media is frightened of being sued by these parents.

It is the sweeping generalisations that I don't like. Anything to condone what these parents did and to make it look absolutely normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: Emma B
Date: 07 May 08 - 12:44 PM

Another example in that story you linked eanjay of the much repeated 'fact' that the apartment was only 50 metres away. (Actually it could be argued it was 70 metres away only if measured in a straight line diectly across the pool and through bushes.)

The reality is that the route was 120 metres and neither of the two entrances can be seen from the bar even in daylight.

The apartment is not inside the Mark Warner complex itself but sits on the corner of two roads,

One of the party would have to walk from the bar around the pool, and out through the security gate of the Ocean Club, a distance of some 60 metres.

Once out of the complex, they would have turned left on to Rua Dr Francisco Gentil Martins, a public road, and go a further 60 metres up the hill, through a three-foot high gate which cannot be locked, up a flight of 10 steep steps** and then in through rear patio doors, which were not apparently locked.

** These steps photograph 4 lead up to an unlocked door and look like an accident waiting to happen to me if a young disorientated child waking from sleep maybe went to look for parents.

Subject: RE: BS: Madeline McCann. One year on.
From: GUEST,MikeS
Date: 13 Jun 11 - 05:13 AM

Intersting that Kate McCann is still sticking to her story.She gave the child something to make her sleep so they could go out and party with their friends, she over did it. And to save their own arse and professional standing, they employed friends to remove the evidence.

The loss of a child is one thing, to lose their standing in society and face charges was not going to happen, they made sure of that.

Both as guilty as sin and they know it, better still, so do we.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/mccann-plea-families-missing-080302817.html