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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Lighter Date: 10 May 23 - 12:45 PM "Farmer and Mechanic" (Raleigh, N.C.) (March 22, 1882): "There is a good deal of talk about the Democratic ballot to 'Retire' Grant. Some of us tried mighty hard to retire him with a bullet, while he was making his little trip from 'the Wilderness' to the [sic] Appomattox - like a 'great big bear done come out de wilderness.'" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Lighter Date: 10 May 23 - 12:05 PM Panella published the song in 1915, but the familiar "ain't what she used to be" lines don't appear anywhere one can find until the 1917 edition. The tune was popular during the Civil War. Panella's words (whether he originated them or not) were frequently sung on the march during World War I. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 14 Apr 20 - 06:34 PM FWIW, Panella's 1915 vaudeville lyrics (above) seem to be the earliest about the old gray "mare" not being "what she used to be" as well as having the first reference to the whiffletree. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST,John Greaves Date: 13 Apr 20 - 02:42 PM My father born 1885 used to sing of the old grey not being what she used to be, but only a snatch of it. He worked in the States during WW1 so may have picked it up there. He tried to join up at the embassy in Washington but was turned down due to an enlarged heart. He had many bits of songs some of which I have never tracked down. Grey mares seem to be ubiquitous in folk song! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: keberoxu Date: 13 Apr 20 - 01:53 PM My mistake, my bad, I'm wrong, I'm sorry: Long Gray Mare, that's the title that Peter Green sang. Can't find a Mudcat thread for it either. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: keberoxu Date: 13 Apr 20 - 01:52 PM Azizi's Grey Goose song is familiar to me from a Pete Seeger solo album: Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! with the banjo in full cry. I believe the album notes name-check Leadbelly for this song. Is there a separate thread, I wonder, for 'I've got an old gray mare, but she won't let me ride ... ' it's an old blues song and Peter Green recorded with his version of Fleetwood Mac. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Susan of DT Date: 13 Apr 20 - 05:25 AM I added a verse for when we play at our retirement community: You and me, sister, ain't what we used to be ain't what we used to be, ain't what we used to be You and me, brother, ain't what we used to be many long years ago, many long years ago You and me, sister, ain't what we used to be many long years ago. It's the 70 and 80 year olds singing and playing ukuleles to the 90 year olds |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 12 Apr 20 - 06:45 PM Steve, news to me. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Steve Gardham Date: 12 Apr 20 - 03:38 PM Can't find anything in the thread re 'Down in Demerara' which seems to be a relative somewhere in the mix. There was a man who had a horselum, had a horselum, had a horselum Was a man who had a horselum, Down in Demerara And here we sits like birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, birds in the wilderness, Here we sits like birds in the wilderness Down etc. Now that poor horse he fell a-sickalum Now that poor horse he broke his legalum Now that poor horse he went and diedalum Any thoughts on this? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Apr 20 - 11:18 AM A horse of a different colour Jim Carroll From Georges- Denis Zimmermann,s Songs of Irish Rebellion Allen Figgis, Dublin - 1967 TEXT B: Broadside in Cambridge University Library; « The Sporting Old Grey Mare». All you young men both great and small take counsel and be wise, Attention pay to what I say, my lectures don’t despise, Let patience guide you on every side, of traitors now beware, There is none but men that’s sound within can ride my Old Grey Mare. Granuia’s sons great wonder done, they set olid Ireland free, Joshua and Diavid’s sons, likewise M.cAbee, Constant the Great will ever shine and be our standard rear, There’s none but men chat’s sound within can ride my Old Grey Mare. Buonaparte on her did sitant, he rode full fast, it’s true, At Moscow plain she got lame and was beat at Waterloo, She sailed o’er to' the Shamrock shore where Dan he did her care, The very next chase, she won the race, my sporting Old Grey Mare. In Erin’s Isle, when fortune smiled, there lived Brian Borue, Phelan O’Neil, Carlinton Miles, Sarsfieild and Munroe; Bold Roderick you know, not long ago, ranged Wexford aod Kildare, Tandy, Sheares and other peers, they rode on my Grey Mare. In mutual love, as pure as a dove, when we do each other greet, Beware of scrapes., broils and spars, or quarrels when you meet, Don’t probe old sores, nor conquer Job, let patience guide you there, Lest in a fog that you might bog and drown my Old Grey Mare. [cankered jobs] These three hundred years, as it appears, no steady statesman did her ride, ’Til Providence had gave due sense and reared the people’s guide, Brave noble Dan, ,he now rides on, Erin’s right’s his only care, The Parliament for to be sent -back on my Old Grey Mare. VARIANTS: A shorter version of Text A is in a garland printed by Goggin, Limerick. Another garland printed by Grace, Dublin, has «The Adven¬tures of ithe Grey Mare, or the Answer to the Grey Hor.se»; both are in the British Museum. A broadside printed by Haly, Cork, gives a variant with the line: At the Curragh of Kildare she was crossed1 by Dooley there ... (cif. song 14.) TUNE: Texts A and B are in fact two distinct songs with a similar theme, suggesting different tunes. Colm O Lochlainn gives a variant of Joyce (19-09) No. 3/03 with a more recent version of Text B. NOTE: O’Donovan Rossa, who remembered the first lines of Text A learnt in his chidhood, was certain that the wonderful horse meant Ireland (Rossa’s Recollections, p. 40), but this does not stand the reading of the whole song. The different texts would rather evoke confused ideas of glory, victory, perhaps justice or liberty. In fact, the song has probably no emblematic meaning. Text B, sit. 4. Phelim O’Neill was a rebel leader executed in 1653; Rode¬rick is probably Rory O’More, a rebel chieftain killed in 1578; James Napper Tandy, John and Henry Sheares were leaders of the United Irishmen. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: gillymor Date: 12 Apr 20 - 11:14 AM My sisters and their friends use to sing this when skipping rope- The old grey mare sat in the 'lectric chair, Burnt off her underwear couldn't get another pair, The old grey mare sat in the 'lectric chair, Many long year ago. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 12 Apr 20 - 11:01 AM As every Civil War buff here must know, some of the Confederates before the battle of Chancellorsville (1863) sang, "Old Joe Hooker, get out of the Wilderness...Get out as fast you can!" The battle of the Wilderness (in the same locale) took place a year later. The following first-person recollection is in a similar vein: Daniel Hartnett, “The Battle of the Wilderness,” Democratic Northwest (Napoleon, O.) (Feb. 6, 1890), p. 2: “On the morning of [May 7, 1864]…we started for Spotsylvania C[ourt] H[ouse] and sang… O, hain’t I glad to get out of the wilderness, Out of the wilderness, down in old Virginia.” Hartnett wasn't alone. The very next day, recalled Lt. Col. Horace Porter in "Campaigning with Grant," 1897, p. 83: “A drum corps in passing caught sight of the general [Grant], and at once struck up a then popular negro camp-meeting air. Every one began to laugh, and Rawlins cried, ‘Good for the drummers!’ ‘What’s the fun?’ inquired the general. ‘Why,’ was the reply, ‘they are playing, “Ain’t I glad to get out ob de wilderness!”’ The general smiled at the ready wit of the musicians, and said, ‘Well, with me a musical joke always requires explanation. I know only two tunes: one is ‘Yankee Doodle,’ and the other is n’t.’” |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 11 Apr 20 - 04:15 PM Just as a matter of interest, the words Earl Robinson sang in 1927 are not those of the indicated title, "Old Gray Mare Kicking Out of the Wilderness." Robinson is clearly singing, "Old gray horse, git out the wilderness! ... Down in Allo-bam!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NWRSnLvpZQ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST,Lisa Ritchey (Fred Ritchey) Date: 04 Dec 11 - 09:57 PM My father used to sing this song in the car on road trips when we were children. Here are his lyrics... After the initial refrain... Now the farmer takes the old gray mare, sits by the side of a thoroughfare, he can make more dough just a waitin there, than he did long years ago. Well the farmer makes five bucks, for towing in cars & trucks Yeah, he's the old boy they all call a rube, they give him a kick, naw, but he's got the boot, Aw cuz he's not stuck with a flat inner tube, him or the old gray mare. Refrain... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Nov 08 - 09:25 PM Riley- The editor appended a footnote: "The word Riley is not capitalized in the manuscript, but one supposes that it is a man's name." Not much point in speculating on a word in a barely remembered fragment (contributed by a Miss Mamie E. Cheek of Durham in 1923). richr posted the spiritual "Go in the Wilderness" in thread 31024: Brave boys |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:47 PM Sorry, my fingers slipped. Let me try that again= I'm wondering if the phrase "roll Riley roll" {as found in the example that rich r posted} was originally the words "rally boys around" as posted by Dick Wisan on 25 Jun 99 - 10:34 AM |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:37 PM To switch to other lyrics from that song, I'm wondering if the phrase "Roll, Riley, roll" as found in the exrich r s - PM Date: 25 May 99 - 12:21 AM The Frank C Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore lists a variant of the lyrics Joe posted, but not much in the way of explanation except that it was described as a lullaby by the source of this version. The old grey horse came trotting down the wilderness Trotting down the wilderness Trotting down the wilderness The old grey horse came trotting down the wilderness Down in Alabam. Roll, Riley, roll Roll, Riley, roll Roll, Riley, roll Oh, Lord, I'm bound to go |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 13 Nov 08 - 06:13 PM It seems likely that 'wild goose nation' was simply a slang term for the boondocks, whether 'injun' country or backwoods South or wherever. There are many versions of the song, variously versed and titled. Some mention a horse, one mentions 40 horses. "Here I Am as You Diskiver" was used on song sheets issued by De Marsan, and by Andrews. The De Marsan sheet has the same text as that of "Wild Goose Nation," posted by Jim Dixon. The Andrews sheet dropped the verse about Arthur Tappen, and substituted these: Summer time has come at last, Old cold winter's gone and past; Fourth July we'll have a lark, And see de sojers in de Park. Fourth July, without any flattery, Is a great day down on de battery; De coannon roar, and so loudly clatter, Get your eye put out wid a fire cracker. A song sheet from Andrews, "Way Down South in de Alabama," probably fairly close to the original "Down in Alabam." WAY DOWN SOUTH IN DE ALABAM 'Way down South, in de Alabama, 'Twas there I left my ole Aunt Hannah; Ole Miss Squankum she whar dere, She wanted a lock ob dis child's hair! Chorus. 'Way down South, in de Alabama, Ou, auh! ou, ah! 'Way down South in de Alabama, Ou ah! faddle um de day! 2 Before I left, we danc'd two reels, (De holler ob her foot war back ob her heels!) I play'd on de banjo 'till dey all begin to sweat; Knock'd on de jaw-bone, and bust de claronet! 3 Vinegar shoes and paper stockings, Set to me, Miss Polly Hopkins; My missus is dead and I'm a widder, All de way from Ravin river. 4 Dandy Jim an' ole Peter Dare, Two best men in human natur; De puttiest ting in all creation, Is a little yalley gal in de wild goose nation. 5 Blow away, ye gentle breezes, All among the cimmon tresses! Dare I'll set 'long wid de Muses, Mendin' my ole boots and shoeses. These from song sheets at American Memory. A version from Christy's Panorama Songster (1850s): SKIDDY, IDDY, DI DO Here we are as you diskiver, All de way from Ole Tar River, Here we come as you must know. All ready for to play on de old banjo. Chorus. Den, oh lord gals, gib us a chaw tobacco, Oh lord gals fotch along de whisky Skiddy iddy iddy di dr di do, My heasd swims when I get a little tipsy. Father Miller goes out preachin', About de world a comin' to pieces, Den if you want to do what's right, Just go and join de Millerite. Forty horses in de stable, Pretty gals in de wild goose nation, My wife's dead an' I'm a sinner, Go down to Johnny's and get my dinner. Uncle Pete and Aunty Jess, Dey went to buy a cider press, De hoops flew off an' de hogshead bust, And dey boff went up in a thunder gust. http://www.archive.org/details/panoramasongster00chririch As mentioned previously, 'the old gray mare' did not appear until long after the original songs had been much changed. "Down in Alabam," music and words by J. Warner, was copyrighted Feb. 17,1858. Subtitle, "Ain't I Glad I Got Out de Wilderness." Variant, "Go in the Wilderness," appeared in 1867 in "Slave Songs of the United States," probably the first connection with Black culture. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 08 - 02:13 PM Correction: Thanks to the information noted by Jim Dixon, I believe more strongly than ever that "wild goose nation" in the "Old Gray Mare" song and perhaps other songs was a referent for Indian land. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 08 - 02:10 PM Here is a repost from thread.cfm?threadid=81179#1485725 that provides the lyrics to the "Old Gray Goose" song that is mentioned above: Subject: ADD Version: THE OLD GRAY GOOSE From: Azizi - PM Date: 15 May 05 - 09:04 PM ADD: THE OLD GRAY GOOSE Here is another version of The Old Gray Goose from Margaret Taylor Burroughs's "Did You Feed My Cow? Street Games, Chants, Rhymes" revised edition {Chicago,1969; Follett Publishing Company;p. 27-29} {presented as found in that book} The leader sings or chants the verse while the group gives response, keeping a definite rhythm. it may also be done with two groups. They may change roles and repeat. Children may be assigned roles of preacher, gray goose, and feather pickers. Call: It was on a Sunday morning, Response: Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! The preacher went ahunting. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! He carried 'long his shotgun Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! When along came the gray goose. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! The gun went off booloo! Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And down came the gray goose. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! He was six weeks afalling. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! He was six weeks afalling. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And my wife and your wife Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! They gave a feather picking. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! They were six weeks picking. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And they put him on to parboil. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! He was six weeks aboiling. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And they put him on the table. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! Well, the knife wouldn't cut him, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And the fork wouldn't stick him. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! They put him in the hogpen, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And he broke the hog's teeth out. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! They took him to the sawmill, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And the saw couldn't cut him. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! They took him to the sawmill, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And the saw couldn't cut him. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And the last time I saw him, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! He was flying 'cross the ocean. Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! With a long string of goslings, Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! And they all going quack, quack! Lawd, Lawd, Lawd! -snip- My thanks to Mudcat Cafe member, Hollowfox, for the gift of this book. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 08 - 02:05 PM Thanks to the information noted by Jim Dixon, I believe more strongly than ever that "wild goose nation" in the "Old Gray Goose" song and perhaps other songs was a referent for Indian land. I think that this referent became one for more than one place, meaning any place where Indians lived who would accept runaway slaves. It's possible that the African Americans of those times used the term "wild geese" as a "totem" for those places which would bring to mind the song about the unconquerable gray goose. There are a number of online references about Black people who were enslaved living with Native Americans. See, for example, this excerpt from this Wikepedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Indians "...In South Carolina, colonists became so concerned about the possible threat posed by the mixed African and Native American population that was arising as runaway Africans escaped to the Native Americans that they passed a new law in 1725. This law stipulated a fine of 200 pounds on anyone who brought a slave to the frontier regions of the colony. In 1751 the colony of South Carolina found it necessary to issue another law, warning that having Africans in proximity to Native Americans was deemed detrimental to the security of the colony. In 1726 the British governor of colonial New York exacted a promise from the Iroquois Confederacy to return all runaway slaves who had joined up with them. This same promise was extracted from the Huron tribe in 1764 and from the Delaware tribe in 1765.[10] Despite their promises, the tribes never returned any escaped slaves..[10] They continued to provide a safe refuge for escaped slaves. In 1763 during Pontiac's Native American uprising a Detriot resident reported that Native Americans killed whites but were "saving and caressing all the Negroes they take." He worried lest this might "produce an insurrection." Chief Joseph Brant's Mohawks in New York welcomed runaway slaves and encouraged intermarriage.[10] Native American adoption systems knew no color line and accepted the breathless fugitives as sisters and brothers.[10] Woodson's notion of an escape hatch notion proved correct: Native American villages welcomed fugitives, and even served as stations on the Underground Railroad.[10]" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 13 Nov 08 - 01:20 PM Thanks, Jim! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:44 PM This implies that "Wild Goose Nation" referred an actual place (although that might not have been its official name): From Joseph H. Wenger, History of the Descendants of J. Conrad Geil and His Son Jacob Geil (Elgin, IL: [author], 1914): [Re: Jacob Beery (1806-1885) and Catharine Stalter (1803-1890), married 1832.] "Later they moved to Wyandot Co., Ohio, in what was called 'Wild Goose Nation.' Brethren in Christ. Nevada, Ohio." [Brethren in Christ," a Mennonite sect, is evidently the name of the religious denomination they belonged to. Nevada is a village in Wyandot County.] |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:07 PM From Roger D. Abrahams, "Singing the Master: The Emergence of African American Culture in the Plantation South" (New York: Pantheon Books, ©1992), page 190:
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Subject: Lyr Add: WILD GOOSE NATION From: Jim Dixon Date: 13 Nov 08 - 12:04 PM From Marsh's Selection, or, Singing for the Million. New York: Richard Marsh, 1854: WILD GOOSE NATION. Here I am, as you diskiver, All de way from Roaring River; Here I cum, as you must know, For to play de ole banjo. CHORUS: Oh Lord, gals, gib me chaw tobacco. Oh Lord, fetch on de whiskey, Makes a man glad to get a little boosey. Way down in de Indian nation, Pretty little gals from de wild goose nation My wife's dead, an' I'm a widow, All de way from Roaring River. Ole Massa Miller goes out a preachin', 'Bout de world coming to pieces, An' if you want to do what's right, Go an' join de Millerite. No, den, if dis should happen, Den good bye to Arthur Tappen; But if it should fail, We'll ride ole Miller on a rail. Time draws near, it does by Job, So now get ready your ascension robes; Farewell, ladies, I must go, To git some strings for my ole banjo. Uncle Samel, and Massa Jess, Dey buy a bully cider press, De hoops flew off, de barrel buss, An' blew 'em up in a thunder guss. [William Miller, preacher, prophesied the end of the world in 1843. Arthur Tappen was an abolitionist. Roaring River is both a river and a town in North Carolina.] |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Nov 08 - 05:29 PM The 'old gray mare' didn't enter the verses of the minstrel song until half a century later. Tying the two together like that to make a supposition is a stretch too far. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:51 PM Sorry for that poor cut and paste job. The word "your" in that first sentence should have been deleted. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:50 PM Thanks for that information, Q, though I flinched when I read your that "n word" in that quote. It seems certain that in the "Old Gray Mare" song, "Wild Goose Nation" wasn't a referent for the Irish Guards. It may not matter what it originally meant for it does seem likely {to me} that in that "Old Gray Mare" song, at least, "Wild Goose Nation" referred to an area where Indians lived to which formerly enslaved Black people would run for santuary. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Nov 08 - 04:05 PM No significance can be attached to 'wild goose nation.' It also appears in sea chanteys, esp. "We'll Ranzo Way." Hugill commented- "Most versions (the chantey) refer to the "Wild Goose Nation." This mysterious race of people often crops up in shantydom and also in nigger minstreldom, and many theories have been put forward regarding the origin, none, I'm afraid, very convincing. Doerflinger maintains that in minstreldom the phrase refers to Southern or Indian-inhabited country. Miss Colcord rather fancies Ireland as the source, since she has discovered that the phrase 'Wild Goose Nation' was used as a poetical name for the Irish, in particular for the Irish Guards who fought for the French in the wars of 1748." See Kipling's poem, "The Irish Guards." In history, Irish who refused to fight for the British crown or deserted to opposing forces, went into exile, and are often referred to as "wild geese." But all this is speculation. See Stan Hugill, "Shanties from the Seven Seas," pp. 181-182; reprint edition (2003 printing) by Mystic Seaport (Museum), Mystic CT. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Azizi Date: 11 Nov 08 - 02:55 PM I'm curious about what was "the wild goose nation" as found in the song "The Old Gray Mare". I seem to vaguely remember reading somewhere that "wild goose nation" was either a nation of Indians {Native Americans} or maroons {runaway slaves}which might have also included some Native Americans}. I've read that some enslaved people would run away from the plantation but might come back there {perhaps because loved ones were there, or because of the scarcity of food in the maroon camps etc}. If "the wild goose nation" meant the Indian and or runaway slave camp, does this verse mean that the person singing it has rejected the idea of permanently leaving the plantation? "Far you well to de wild goose nation, Wild goose nation, Wild goose nation, I neber will leab de old plantation, Down in Alabam'." -snip- It should be noted that I googled "the wild goose nation" and found a wikipedia page on "De Wild Goose Nation" that included this information: "De Wild Goose-Nation" is an American song composed by blackface minstrel performer Dan Emmett. The song is a parody (or possibly an adaptation) of "Gumbo Chaff", a blackface minstrel song dating to the 1830s; the music of most closely resembles an 1844 version of that song.[1] Musicologist Hans Nathan sees similarities in the introduction of the song to the later "Dixie".[2]" -snip- I suppose that it's possible that this phrase could have more than one meaning. Does anyone have any information or documentation about what this phrase or referent means? If so, thanks in advance for posting it. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Dixon Date: 10 Nov 08 - 10:32 PM THE OLD GREY MARE as recorded by Earl Fuller's Famous Jazz Band, is purely instrumental—no lyrics. You can hear it at The Red Hot Jazz Archive. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Nov 08 - 08:49 PM Are the 1917 recordings similar to each other? It would be interesting to see the lyrics of one or more of them. OLD GRAY HOSS Old gray hoss come a-tearin' out o' the wilderness, Tearin' out o' the wilderness, tearin' out o' the wilderness, Old gray hoss come a-tearin' out o' the wilderness, Down in Alabam'. Verse, with the usual score, "The Missouri Play-Party," Mrs. L. D. Ames, p. 311. JAFL, 1911, vol. 24, no. 93, pp. 295-318. ------------------------------------ Fuld says the phrase "ain't what she used to be" appeared in a 'song' version published Oct. 4, 1917 by Morris Music Co., the arranger Frank Panella(?); pp. 408-409, James J. Fuld, 1966, "The Book of World-Famous Music," (Dover reprint). Fuld also says claims have been made that the words of "The Old Gray Mare" were written by Gus Bailey about an animal at the Second Battle of Bull Run (Manassas). Bailey was a soldier in Gen. Hood's Texas Brigade and later became a circus showman and musician. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Dixon Date: 10 Nov 08 - 06:18 PM On Leroy Troy's album, THE OLD GREY MARE is attributed to Carson Robison. However, I can't find any evidence that Carson Robison recorded it. The Online 78 rpm Discographical Project lists recordings called (THE) OLD GRAY/GREY MARE, by Arthur Collins and Byron Harlan, 1917. Earl Fuller's Famous Jazz Band, 1917. Prince's Band, 1917. University Quartet, around 1917. Carl Fenton & His Orch, 1925. Land Norris (banjo), 1926. Al Bernard, around 1927. Gid Tanner's Skillet Lickers, 1927. Vernon Dalhart, 1927 (attrib J Warner) & '28 (attrib Frank Panella) Lew Childre, 1930. Gene Autry, 1936. Milton Brown & His Brownies, 1936. Freddie Fisher & His Orch, 1941. Bob Gregory and his Cactus Cowboys, date unknown. and other songs called: OLD GREY MARE KICKING OUT OF THE WILDERNESS by Earl Johnson & His Clodhoppers, 1927. TIM KELLYS OLD GREY MARE by Jack Murphy, 1927. OUR OLD GREY MARE by Johnny Marvin, 1932 HARNESS THE OLD GREY MARE by Gillis Serenaders, 1934. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 09 Nov 08 - 02:36 PM Not bad for a furrin nag. But she didn't carry General Washington or Lee or Grant or Crazy Horse or Oñate or Villa or me. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Carroll Date: 09 Nov 08 - 12:32 PM On the other hand: Good fellows all that's straight and tall, Take counsel and be wise Attention pay to what I say, My lecture don't despise— Let patience guide you on ev'ryside Of traitors now beware There's none but men would glory win Can ride my old Grey Mare. In Erin's Isle in ancient times, She was rode by Brian Boru, Phelim O'Neill with sword of steel, Owen Roe and Sarsfield, too, Brave Michael Dwyer not long ago Ranged Wicklow and Kildare Tone, Tandy, Sheares, and other peers Rode on my old grey mare. Brave Bonaparte on her did start He rode too fast, 'tis true. She lost a shoe at Moscow fair And fell lame at Waterloo. When she comes o'er to Erin's shore, She'll have good farriers' care At the very next 'chase she'll win the race, My sporting old grey mare. Here's to the man that's six foot one, And more then if you choose, That stands up straight without deceit, In Spanish leather shoes. Likewise the youth that tells the truth That he may have Liberty fair And to every man in Ireland That rides my old grey mare. Seems far more interesting to me. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 08 Nov 08 - 04:51 PM Lyr. Add: THE OLD GRAY HORSE Three old verses from Perrow A Went to the river at break uv day, Couldn't get across, en' uh had to stay; Paid five dollars fer un ole gray horse, Wouldn't go erlong, en' 'e wouldn't stand still, But jumped up en' daown like un ole flutter-mill. (TN, mountain whites, 1908) B I went to the river and couldn't get across; Paid five dollars for an old gray horse, Horse wouldn't ride, horse wouldn't swim, And I'll never see my five dollars agin. (MS, country whites, MS of Miss Reedy; 1909) C I went to the river and couldn't get across; Jumped on a toad-frog and thought he was a horse* VA, mountain whites, 1912) *In college song books, included in "Polly Wolly Doodle." From E. C. Perrow, Songs in which Animals Figure. E. C. Perrow, 1911, "Songs and Rhymes from the South," JAFL, vol. 25, pp. 137-155. A version of "Old Gray Mare, 1906, Perrow, was posted above, 26 May 05. From mountain whites. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Jim Dixon Date: 31 Jul 05 - 11:43 PM The sheet music for DOWN IN ALABAM or AIN'T I GLAD I GOT OUT DE WILDERNESS can be found at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: AIN'T I GLAD I GOT OUT DE WILDERNESS From: chico Date: 29 Jul 05 - 05:16 AM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 May 05 - 09:35 PM I have found two copies of "Down in Alabam'" in which the word is 'dropser,' not 'dropner.' The sheet music is difficult to read (Levy Sheet Music) and 'dropser' sounds better, so a correction is probably needed. This also is closer to 'dropsy.' |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 May 05 - 01:34 PM "In the Wilderness" is an interesting one. Botkin, p. 288, say the game is also called "On to Galilee." He gives directions for the game: "The lady in the center. You keep going round her. Then hands up and go the other way. Then you swing her if it's your partner. Repeat until all the girls have been swung. Then the boys get in the center with- 'first old soapstick (toothpick, slopbucket, gentleman,'), etc." B. A. Botkin, 1937; 1963, "The American Play-Party Song," University Studies Univ. Nebraska vol. 38, no. 1-4; reprint Frederick Ungar Pub. Co., NY. Botkin refers to "Below Galilee" in Newell, but this is part of a game called "Swine-herders" or "Hog-drivers." Although possibly the verse is related, the game is quite different. Pp. 232-233, no. 164, North Carolina; with music, mountain whites. Come under, come under, My honey, my love, my heart's above- Come under, come under, Below Galilee. W. W. Newell, 1883, 1903; Dover reprint 1963, "Games and Songs of American Children," Harper & Bros.; Dover. "Dropner"- Could be dropsy, but minstrels used invented words and the composer may have had nothing specific in mind. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Goose Gander Date: 28 May 05 - 01:49 AM "My old massa he's got the *dropner, um, he's got the dropner, um, he's got the dropner, um, He am sure to die 'kase he's got no doctor, um, Down in Alabam'." I wonder if this refers to dropsy.... DROPSY (contracted from the old word hydropisy, derived from the Gr. 6pw~ ii&op, water, and ~, appearance), the name given to a collection of simple serous fluid in all or any of the cavities of the body, or in the meshes of its tissues. Dropsy of the subcutaneous connective tissue is termed oedema when it is localized and limited in extent; when more diffuse it is termed anasarca; the term oedema is also applied to dropsies of some of the internal organs, notably to that of the lungs. Hydrocephalus signifies an accumulation of fluid within the ventricles of the brain or in the arachnoid cavity; hydrothorax, a collection of fluid in one or both pleural cavities; hydropericardium, ~in the pericardium; ascites, in the peritoneum; and, when anasarca is conjoined with the accumulation of fluid in one or more of the serous cavities, the dropsy is said to be general (see also PATHOLOGY). http://35.1911encyclopedia.org/D/DR/DROPSY.htm DROPSY SYLLABICATION: drop·sy PRONUNCIATION: drps NOUN: Edema. No longer in scientific use. ETYMOLOGY: Middle English dropesie, short for idropesie, from Old French ydropisie, from Medieval Latin ydrpisia, from Latin hydrpisis, from Greek hudrpisis, from hudrps, dropsy, a dropsical person : hudro-, water; see hydro– + ps, face; see okw- in Appendix I. OTHER FORMS: dropsi·cal (-s-kl) —ADJECTIVE dropsi·cal·ly —ADVERB http://www.bartleby.com/61/79/D0397900.html |
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Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE WILDERNESS (play-party song) From: Goose Gander Date: 28 May 05 - 01:36 AM IN THE WILDERNESS First little lady in the wilderness, in the wilderness In the wilderness, in the wilderness First little lady in the wilderness On to Galilee Chorus: Hands up, round the lady, Round the lady, round the lady, Hands up, round the lady, On to Galilee Swing that lady out of the wilderness (etc.) Next married lady down the wilderness (etc.) Next old maid go down the wilderness (etc.) Swing all the ladies out of the wilderness (etc.) First old hobo in the wilderness (etc.) First old soapstick in the wilderness (etc.) (toothpick, slopbucket, gentleman) From B.A. Botkin's American Play Party Songs (Lincoln, Nebraska: University of Nebraska Press, 1937), cited by Alan Lomax in Folk Songs of North America (p. 91-92). The various forms of this song run the gamut from sincere to parody, from sacred to secular. I like how this version combines secular and sacred themes and becomes progressively more ridiculous. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 May 05 - 12:57 AM Guest above, referring to thread 31024, is Q. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: GUEST Date: 28 May 05 - 12:41 AM See thread 31024, post by Ebbie, "Brave Boys Died, Down in Alabam'; and "Old Abe Lincoln Came Out of the Wilderness," posted by Sorcha. In the same thread is the spiritual "Go in the Wilderness," from Slave Songs, 1867, posted by rich r. Brave Boys Died |
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Subject: Lyr Add: DOWN IN ALABAM From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 May 05 - 12:30 AM Lyr. Add: Down in Alabam (or: Ain't I Glad I Got Out de Wilderness) Melody by J. Warner, 1858 Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! My old massa he's got the dropser, um, he's got the dropser, um, he's got the dropser, um, He am sure to die 'kase he's got no doctor, um, Down in Alabam'. Chorus: Ain't I glad I got out de wilderness, Got out de wilderness, Got out de wilderness, Ain't I glad I got out de wilderness Down in Alabam'. Old blind horse come from Jerusalem, Come from Jerusalem, Come from Jerusalem He kicks so high dey put him in de museum, Down in Alabam'. Dis am a holiday, we hab assembled, um, We hab assembled, um, We hab assembled, um To dance and sing for de ladies and gentleum, Down in Alabam'. Far you well to de wild goose nation, Wild goose nation, Wild goose nation, I neber will leab de old plantation, Down in Alabam'. "Ethiopian Refrain as sung by Bryant's Minstrels. Melody by J. Warner harmonized and arranged by Walter Meadows." Published by Wm. Hall & Son, New York. 1858. This seems to be the original that spawned many parodies and folk variants, both black and white. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: TEARIN' OUT-A WILDERNESS (from J&A Lomax) From: Goose Gander Date: 27 May 05 - 11:10 PM I don't think these have been posted: TEARIN' OUT-A WILDERNESS De old gray hoss come tearin' out-a wilderness Tearin' out-a wilderness Tearin' out-a wilderness De old gray hoss come tearin' out-a wilderness Down in Alabam' chorus: Hoe, boys, Hoe (4X) A little black bull come down from de mountain Down from de mountain Down from de mountain A little black bull come down from de mountain Long time ago He stuck his horn through a white oak sapling White oak sapling White oak sapling He stuck his horn through a white oak sapling Long time ago He threw dirt in de heifer's faces Heifer's faces Heifer's faces He threw dirt in de heifer's faces Long time ago Twenty more black bull calves come that season Come that season Come that season Twenty more black bull calves come that season Long time ago From John and Alan Lomax's American Ballads and Folk Songs (p.336-337). The Lomax's offer no source, but they note it is "A Cotton-Chopping Song," and it's certainly African-American. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Stewie Date: 27 May 05 - 09:37 PM My apologies, the title of the Johnson side referred to in my previous post should read 'Old Grey MARE Kicking Out of the Wilderness'. I put 'horse' because I was listening to the side whilst typing. Although 'mare' is the word in the title, Johnson sings 'horse' all the way through - no mention of 'mare'! --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Stewie Date: 27 May 05 - 09:25 PM The ballad index entry above for Earl Johnson (OK 45183) should have read 'Earl Johnson & His Clodhoppers'. At this session Lee 'Red' Henderson had replaced Byrd Moore on guitar. The earlier Dixie Entertainers line-up was Johnson, Emmett Bankston (bjo) and Moore. The Clodhoppers line-up of Johnson, Bankston and Henderson also later recorded under the name 'Earl Johnson & His Dixie Entertainers'. Johnson's 'Old Grey Horse Kicking Out of the Wilderness' seems to be mainly the vehicle for some wildly exuberant dance music and manic fiddling. Apart from the 'Old grey horse kicking ...' chorus, it has a couple of floaters like: My wife died on Thursday evening Friday she was buried Done my courtin' on Saturday evening On Sunday I got married --Stewie. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Goose Gander Date: 27 May 05 - 06:33 PM I remember this from when I was about 10 years old.... Old Gray Man he... Ate all the gopher guts Ate all the gopher guts Ate all the gopher guts |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Old Gray Mare From: Franz S. Date: 26 May 05 - 10:51 PM Song I remember from sunday school about 57 years ago, to the same tune as "The Old Gray Mare" which we also sang 57 years ago: I may never march in the infantry, Ride in the cavalry, Shoot the artillery, I may never zoom o'er the enemy, But I'm in the Lord's army. I always chose to interpret this as a sort of pacifist song. |
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