Folk Proms

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 02:53 AM

WLD, did you not find Martin Simpson's "Little Musgrave" wholly rivetting?

And did you not find his "Never Any Good" had more than a little to say politically?

I cannot believe anyone would say that his guitarwork had little to say artistically, and his narration of "Musgrave" was IMHO masterly.

Also, whether or not I am greatly struck by Bella Hardy or by Bellowhead, surely you would accept that the spare, spare accompaniment for Bella Hardy, and the riot of sound for Bellowhead represent significant artistic statements, wouldn't you?

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: SunrayFC
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:03 AM

So good to get a fair amount of prime time dedicated to Folk.

Bella's tuning was painful. And to be fair, most of the songs were not lively enough. With so many more upbeat songs to choose from, and such an opportunity to "sell folk" to a wider audience, I think it turned out to be an opportunity missed.

But folk did get a few hours and not the usual "tucked away" spot in the early hours! Let's hope for some more.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Marje
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:23 AM

I thought Martin Simpson was simply riveting from start to finish. Yes, he had to tune and retune - so do orchestras. It was worth it.

Personally I was a bit disappointed in Bellowhead - it just sounded a bit messy, and self-indulgent at times, although it came together at the end. At times they seemed to be putting the perfomrnace before the music, unlike the other acts who always put the songs first.

But it was great to have a Folk Prom and I hope there will be more. Perhaps the presenter will have had anough answers to stop asking the "What is Folk?" question ad nauseam. (I've never heard them asking "What is Romantic/Classical music?" re the normal concert repertoire.)

I just wish I'd taped it, to listen to Martin Simpson again (and the beginning, which I missed, and the encore, which they cut). I'll see if they have it on a Pod-thingy and try to get it that way

Marje

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:39 AM

I wish everybody tuned their guitars with as much art as Martin Simpson. Can anybody tell me what his second number was please?

Wasn't mad keen on Bella.

I'm a big fan of Bellowhead and, yes, I thought they were a bit like rabbits in the headlights for a while - I thought Paul Sartin's intros were a bit stilted. The sound balance coming out of my telly was dreadful although the dance sets came across pretty well. And did anybody else find that the 'simultaneous' Radio 3 transmission was somewhat less than simultaneous?

I love what Bellowhead are doing, and they've managed to get my early son and his partner turned on to traditional music in a way that I've never been able to.

And how about Jon Boden for the next Doctor Who!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:40 AM

Well the way to "get more" is to write to the controller of radio 3 and say so.

WLD If the "middle-class kids" have managed to acquire subsidies, then anyone who themselves have managed to jump through the various hoops associated with arts funding will tell you they have done well.

I assume that you have carefully researched the backgrounds of the people on stage last night. I know one of them very well. His father and mother are about as working-class as you can get, you don't get all that many middle-class where he comes from, and he himself is a welder. To my knowledge he has never received a penny of subsidy in his life.

But I am interested to hear what subsidies they have received - would you be kind enough to tell us? I am sure that the "other ranks" would be interested to know, they might consider appling for them too.

And where does Martin Simpson - who seems to earn his living constantly gigging - fit in to the "middle-class kids"? His is 54.

I happen to think you are so wrong - but I am interested to know who you would put on a Folk Prom bearing in mind it would be to represent English music "politically and artistically".

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:48 AM

As one who was in the audience, I think it's fair to say that if there were any problems with Bellowhead's sound, they were in the transmission mix rather than in the auditorium. They certainly didn't look or sound like rabbits in the headlights from where I was sitting, and indeed had had a good chance to warm up in the afternoon, playing for maybe a thousand people at the bandstand in Kensington Gardens...those were a mix of folkies and non-folkies, and Bellowhead blew them away.

I thought they were having the time of their lives, actually.

Anyway, it was a good day for folk, I think.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:51 AM

Sorry, don't know why my son is 'early'!

And yes, I know one of those people that were on stage as well - I know that this person struggled to get by for years whilst trying to make a career in music, that their parents could only give them encouragement and not subsidy and that they remain self-effacing, approachable, hard working and totally committed to their art.

What are you on about WLD?

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 03:54 AM

Yes Ruth, I was pretty sure the sound issue was as a result of the transmission. I've seen Bellowhead a number of times in all sorts of settings and they blow me away as well.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:26 AM

the presenters seemed rather patronising and Charles Hazlewood despite his background asked some pretty dumb questions. his final slip of the tongue "goodbye from this fiasco" summed up his own performance.
john

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:49 AM

Firstly, lets clear up some of the techie questions.

The various channels from (the two) stages would have been split probably 4 ways, One to the FOH desk (Hall PA) One to the stage monitor board, another to the TV Scanner Along with their presentation se-up, and one to Radio 3 truck, witch normally lives outside door 11, along with Verities permanent BBC box in the Loggia.

The 4 mixes obviously are for different purposes.
As far as TV is concerned, the mix can be somewhat weird to the listener without the vision, as the guy doing it is following the vision mix to some extent, also adding more audience FX when the shot is of the crowd.

Normally works very well with an orchestra, where you know when the solo's are going to happen (After all you've got a score to look at)

But with Bellowhead, who almost certainly don't play from a score!! It's all a bit seat of the pants stuff.

Hence the different radio mix, which doesn't have to bother with the pictures, and can therefore concentrate purely on the Audio, therefore being more listenable.

I video'd the gig via Freeview, and Recorded the R3 via DAB.
Having listened back to both they are obviously differnt. Proved by the fact that Bellas first intro was fine on R3 but missing on TV!!

Please believe me and I know, because I've done it. It's not easy to rig circuits to the middle of the Arena. It involves crawling under the floor, Hard hat area!!

As for transmission paths. Now that we are in the digital world. It takes a finite time to do all the number crunching. The nearest to a live TX would have been R3 on FM, After that depending on where you live, Freeview and DAB could be anything up to half to a second out.

Hence the reason that simulcasts that used to be so popular during Proms in the 70's (Vision on TV, Sound on R3) are really unworkable nowadays.

Hope this clears some of the Tech stuff up.

Considering the relative complexity of the various rigs, and the fact that the crew only had 3 hours to turn the whole place around after the rather large afternoon Prom. I thought it went reasonably well. (Sound of doffing caps at this point)

As for the artists......

Will get back after some tea!

Ralphie

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:49 AM

I enjoyed it but thought the transmission did not do Bellowhead justice, I missed Bella Hardy but caught Martin Simspon whose guitar work was amazing. The most irritating thing was the commentary and discussion which was facile-if all the very best the BBC can come up with is someone continually asking the question What is folk? then we will no be progressing very far-No one sits down with placido domingo and continually asks the question -what is classical music? Charles Hazlewood realy irritated me. When they switched to the park, then the usual tactic of 'spend all the camera time on the commentator rather than the activity' kicked in. Sorry I hate the BBC and what it has done to dumb down everything in this country.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: mattkeen
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:13 AM

Bellowhead can be very difficult to mix - just cos of the cpmplexity of the sound and the numbers of musicians involved.
(In fact through experience, I can say that orchestras are easier - instruments are generally grouped and have their own clear frequency range, as an example)

Also, musicially Bellowhead make a very interweaved sound, both melodically and rhythmically, and I have head them sometimes be marvellous and uplifting where earlier on in the same gig they were more like a big noise. Seems to me they are brilliant and adventurous, and that means that they sometimes fall over.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:13 AM

Both the vision mixer and director were old colleagues of mine from Blue Peter, so the two recordings I made (via Freeview and R3 digital captured by Audio Hijack Pro) gave a whole new meaning to "here are two I made earlier" when I played back and compared them during last night. Different though they were, I could detect no evidence of Bellowhead being "frightened in the headlights". The pre-transmission interview with Jon B & Paul S set the mood: confident, enthusiastic and joyous. Having seen the band many times since their debut at Oxford over four years ago when it was possible to describe the profusion of onstage music stands and intense hard looks at each other as a small muddle, they have now well and truly arrived and the musical expertise of each shines through as a cohesive whole.

It was a small misfortune that Bella Hardy started off out of tune and I really could have done without Charles Hazlewood's patronising crap (couldn't Verity Sharp have presented?) but even Martin Simpson looked unusually happy onstage, as I think we all should be at such a triumphant achievement.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:17 AM

Hello Linda

"What Is Folk?"

Good Question. I think it's about time we discussed this subject!

As for Mr Hazlewood....Couldn't agree more. Luckily I had the chance to listen to Verity and Ian McMillan on R3.

They should have been on TV to add a modicum of Knowledge and Gravitas.
Mr H's interview with Mssrs Boden and Sartin was ball clutchingly awful. John and Paul must have wondered why they'd agreed to such a travesty of an interview.

As for the two gigs as a whole.

The first one was pretty interesting with the Juxtaposition of Muzsikas and Bartok. Bellas Seventeen come Sunday followed by the Vaughan Williams Folk song suite was also thought provoking.
The Climax of Kathryns "Confluence" did demonstrate what can happen when genres collide. Nice end

Could have done with out the Berio bit!

(It says in Radio Times.....
Monica Bacelli (Mezzo)
Bella Hardy (Singer.....???)

Nuff said.

Prom 2, didn't get off to such a great start with Bellas tuning problems, but she recovered well. Mr Simpson was, well Mr Simpson. Sublime playing et al.

Bellowhead. I've mentioned the tecchie stuff above, but there are arrangements are always fascinating. and thought they did rather well considering the circs, and that they had already done an open air gig in the afternoon.

Now you wouldn't get the Halle doing that would you??!!

In all, a bit of a curates egg of a day. Just happy that it happened at all.
Memo to Mr Appleby, was it Mike W doing the mix for R3 in the evening?

Sounded like his touch!

Ralphie

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:39 AM

Just one question at this juncture. Where was the infrastructure which might have made Joe Public want to find out more about 'folk' music, either in the park - or at the RAH? Apart from one bloke handing out leaflets for some festival based at Camden, there was no EFDSS stall, nothing about folk festivals anywhere in the country, nothing - not even a beer tent!

Musikasz were superb. Made my day. Folkestra were the antidote needed after a challenging set of European folk song arrangements sung by a mezzo-soprano with as much stage presence as a loaf of bread. I'm not a Martin Simpson fan, but I was mesmerised by his version of 'Little Musgrave'. I endured Bellowhead - but the secret lies in the performance rather than in what they perform. In this, Bellowhead excel, going for sound and presence before everything else. If this makes the incoming generation want to explore deeper, that's okay by me. I'm not sure they were the right choice to showcase 'folk' to a 'classicial' audience if this indeed was the case, but I can see this would only be one contribution to a debate which will long continue. At least we now have a debate!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:47 AM

Hey Mr Gadaffi...

Loaf of bread.....Yep!.

As for the rest, yesterdays gig only scratched the surface, as I'm sure you understand.
Plenty more ideas for future Proms Methinks (Can see those Toffs at Radio 3 sharpening their little cleavers!)

"At least we now have a debate"...........OH NO!!

Not another one, Grumble....exiting stage left, tripping over Mr Floods cutlery department....

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:53 AM

What, no bitter and twisted comments about "folk royalty", for once? I guess their absence from the concert silenced their detractors. Seriously though, it's good to be able to show that the folk scene has both breadth and depth that goes well beyond whatever the media show regularly. A very good day for folk, and thanks be to Beeb.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:02 AM

I don't think the BBC was all that bothered about people finding out about more folk - and it was their gig. As far as I know, they didn't invite EFDSS to have a stall. The bit in the park was interesting, from the tea-towel-sized dance tent to the lack of anywhere to buy refreshments...it was like a festival organised by someone who had never been to a festival. Again, some information point there would have been ideal, but it didn't seem particularly well though through. But the music went down really well, and though it was slightly surreal seeing grownups dancing around the mini-maypole, so did the dance. The audience loved Bellowhead, and people who were sufficiently excited by what they saw will no doubt find out more - the internet is a beautiful thing.

Derek and I were leafleting for the EFDSS Vaughan Williams event(on 4 October, folks!) after Bellowhead, but there are 12 doors, so it's hard to cover them all...

I have to say that I think Sam Sweeney is a great addition to the Bellowhead lineup - not just because of his musicianship, but because of the joy and exhuberance with which he plays. It's a delight to see a band enjoying what they're doing that much.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:10 AM

Hi George.
Well it was mentioned to me that maybe some heavyweights like Waterson/Carthy should have been on the bill, but Hey....
This is the peoples music.
As I've said before, a valiant attempt with some lovely moments.
Trying to shoe horn trad music into what is, normally a very blinkered classical environment is frought with danger.
I thought that the trad element sat in quite nicely. Especially the Kathryn Tickell piece. Loved her intro when she said that she had sent the arrangement to the orchestra, and that "Don't worry about those bars, it'll all work out on the night" or words to that effect.
And indeed it did. Listening to it again as I type!

The Future is Bright....The Future is Orange (Woops sorry that was an advert!)

See Ya Ralphie

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:14 AM

Yes, Sam Sweeney is a fantastic asset (though it's sad not to see Giles up there . . . )

Entirely off topic, and if Mr Lewin is lurking out there, maybe he'll be persuaded to do more work with Vivienne Ellis now.

Back to Bellowhead, I should clarify that the Jon'n'Paul i/v came off well because they are now so used to ignoring fatuous questions (regardless of who's asking, especially if their name is Hazlewood) and saying what they need to say. Which they did.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:41 AM

Yes it probably was the BBC's 'gig', so it was their largesse to distribute. Accepted, but none was forthcoming.

Just one thought: when Malcolm Taylor OBE (EFDSS Director of Library) gets requests from the BBC to do some vital part of research for some programme they have in mind, I feel it potential for pay back time. I fielded one call from Malcolm concerning a Sandy Toksvig programme based on Dungeness people and how they wanted 'traditional singers' for it. After a day wasted dashing round making calls and emails, we were rewarded by one self-penned song by Paul Sirman who runs the Orpington folk club. Maybe it's time to restore Test Match Special to its rightful slot - on Radio Three! This time on FM!!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:45 AM

"What Is Folk?"
Good Question. I think it's about time we discussed this subject!"

Ralphie, you little provocateur, you!! Behave ... take 1000 lines "I must not provoke the horse ...." immediately!!

I'm glad you put that info about the technicalities in. I'd been meaning to make the observation last night that the balance on my TV sound seemed a little wanting in various areas (eg banjo predominating over brass at one point to the extent of being very noticeable, not to mention the lack of any sound from the vocal mikes on more than one occasion), but had the feeling that with two stages, and three set ups of very differing nature glitches were going to be only to be expected ... which is more or less what youv'e said, n'est-ce pas?

And Gadaffi - your endurance of Bellowhead was noted when you came into shot in the applause at the end !!![grins] I look forward to a continuation of the debate in person at Sidmouth - no doubt?

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 06:48 AM

Gadaffi, that's the BBC all over (as you probably know) - didn't you realise it's an honour and a privilege to tear-arse around doing their research and dirty work, and get absolutely no credit...?

;0)

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 07:06 AM

Thanks for the warning, Irene. I'll put off watching the DVD. Lawrence gave them a standing ovation tho' - enthusiastic fellow that he is. I confess, there were a few times when I wondered how the lads were doing at Headingley, or who won the Ambridge tug o' war.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: goatfell
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 07:28 AM

I liked the programme however I just didn't like that Martin Simpson, it was like watching grass grow, the man well according to me was so boring, I felt like slashing my wrists.

he was dull as dishwater.

mind you I like lively music played by people that are alive, Martin Simpson get a life, sing happy songs that we can sing along to and clpa our hands, instead of the boring dull stuff.

but that's just me

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 07:50 AM

Far, Far too much inane chatter and presentation, not enough music. Martin Simpson was brilliant, Sorry Goatfell, Martin does do happy and singalong too, but this set was a showcase for his playing. Very cross when Beeb cut off The Prickle-eye bush in mid intro :<

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: melodeonboy
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 08:12 AM

Those that were actually there will have (ideally!) a wider perspective on it than me. For example, I imagine I would have noted the absence of a beer tent, too!

I can also understand why some people were niggled by some of the chit-chat, some of which was neither entertaining nor informative.

I do, however, think that the broader picture is a very positive one. Having only seen it on the box, not only did I enjoy it, but I thought it was so positive that the BBC devoted so much air time (relative to what folk music usually gets!) on both radio and television. I hope that they'll put it into one of those "BBC4 on BBC2" slots so that those with only terrestial channels will have a chance to see it.

So many of us have been complaining for so long about lack of exposure for the music, and there was far more about these broadcasts to be praised than to be criticised. Let's hope it's not just a flash in the pan!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 08:42 AM

"...there was far more about these broadcasts to be praised than to be criticised". Spot on, melodeonboy. Sure, there were things that could have been done better, or less/more depending on your point of view, other artists that might have replaced those that were there for a better/worse overall effect. But nitpicking on whether Bella's intros were informative or inane, on whether Martin's singing was at its best or whether Jon Boden should have shaved or not (yes, someone commented dismissively on this on the Radio 3 board...) is missing the point.

But I will bitch about one thing: That CH bloke did not impress him, I must say, insincerity personified I thought. And Jon Boden did VERY well not to nut him when he announced him as "John Speers" (my spelling).

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 08:45 AM

A bit of traditional style folk wouldn't have gone amiss with me, to put the intricate arrangements style of Hardy, Simpson and Bellowhead in some cultural context. Just as the BBC used to like Butterworth and Vaughan Wiiliams orchestral arrangements, or Britten/Pear piano and tenor recitals, the new fashion is for complex educated arrangemets. English traditional melody is strong: it can withstand the metronomic precision of Bella Hardy's "Searching fo Lambs" with all that complex stuff on a rigid 5/4 rhythm(the collectoirs put 5/4 in their notebooks to indicate roughly what was going on, not to imply the rhyhmic rigidity). But wouldn't it be nice if the audience could also be treated to the rhythmic fluidity of style that characterised the way these melodies have been sung and developed in the "ever rolling stream" of the traition? There are singers who can still sing in this way: the over-fussy experiments have their place in every generation, but it would be nice, in one of these flagship type occasions, if the old ways weree allowed a look-in. Surely if the innovations are serious and heart-felt, they will be able to stand comparsion?
    Basically, it was a worthy occasion, but too sanitised for my taste. Folk music is different, so why try to merge it into being the same? Stand in the middle of Padstow on Mayday and you will hear folk percussion, folk melody and folk singing. But I don't think the BBC, or its allies in the folk establishment and the folk media, will ever put that syle of traditional music centre stage now: it will always be relegated to a bit of local colour for a Rick Stein sardine recipe!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 08:45 AM

Mind you... I wouldn't mind being in Jon's shoes, even if CH mispronounced my name! Well done Jon and John, and not just for Bellowhead either...

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 09:07 AM

We were there all day, and well done the BBC for putting it on.

Agree with a lot of the criticisms, particularly
The bit in the park was interesting, from the tea-towel-sized dance tent to the lack of anywhere to buy refreshments...it was like a festival organised by someone who had never been to a festival
indeed, some food and drink stalls would have been very welcome. We bumped into Sam Sweeney and he asked us if there was anywhere to get something to eat (looking longingly at the sandwiches we had just been into Kensington High Street to get)

And we too could have done without the Berio bit. 25 minutes felt more like 25 hours……….

Other comments:
the tickets for the Free afternoon Prom in the RAH "sold" out quite some time ago
that was true according to the website, but sadly there were lots of empty spaces including at least 6 whole segments of the 'Grand Tier'. Did people claim their tickets then just not bother to turn up, or do some people buy their seat for the whole series?

Bella Hardy sounded far better than on her CD and indeed than live at Ely
Don't agree with that at all, Bella sounds great on her CD and she sounded great at Ely as well. She did really well, especially in the first concert when she sat on the little stage all by herself, waiting for her bit. She sat through all the Berlio stuff and then the first half finished - they could have let her go off earlier!

I look forward to watching my recording tonight, and also listening how they presented it on the radio.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 09:11 AM

"Martin Simpson get a life, sing happy songs that we can sing along to and clpa our hands, instead of the boring dull stuff.

but that's just me "

Bit unfair to judge someone on such a short sample, don't you think?

But maybe that's just you.

I've been listening to Martin for over 15 years and I find him totally inspirational.

But maybe that's just me.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 09:14 AM

Ah, What the hell.
Many congratulations to all involved, and to the Beeb for daring to do it.
We could all spend the rest of our lives pontificating who, what, where, when, why.
Does it amount to a hill of beans? I don't think so.
It was for me, lovely to see some old friends sticking it up the bums of the congnescenti!!!!

Perfect....No
Bit of fun.....Yes!

In my humble opinion of course

On to the next event......Folkies take over BIG BROTHER.....Discuss

(Mmmmm, thinking about it....I could see some interesting 4am discussions!! (You add your names....I've got mine!)

Hugs Ralphie

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: melodeonboy
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 09:22 AM

Yes, leveller. A bit over the top to tell someone to "get a life" (naff , overused expression anyway) for the "crime" of not playing happy-clappy music.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 09:55 AM

"Martin Simpson Sings The Wurzels"...
Doesn't bear thinking!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:00 AM

nah, he couldn't do the accent.....

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: goatfell
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:17 AM

don't get me wrong here, but Martin Simpson in that short piece that he did was a bit boring, and yet when Bellowhead were the place was jumping, and nearly everyone was having a good time, but as for Martin Simpson I wouldn't play money to see him, a good singer and guitarist though, and the songs he sang were good, but as I say I just love different songs some long and boring and some you can sing along to, but Martin Simpson was just boring that's all.

mind you there are quite a lot of folk musicians like that as well, I go and sit and listen them give them their due, but when I see that they are coming to the folk club, (where I sing and play) I just have a night off.
I like the sing along stuff, stuff you can join in with.

am I wrong for enjoying myself and coming home after a folk concert horse but happy from singing.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:25 AM

Didn't you just know the equine contingent would be along? What kept you?

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:40 AM

Mrs Annie ... regarding the empty seats. You'll normally find those for most concerts at the Royal ALbert Hall, which has a large number of seats which are owned by debenture holders. In order for them to be put up for sale (or even, I suppose to be given away) the debenture holder has to agree to that happening.This therefore means that for most concerts 100% of the seats are not going to be available for sale. So not a case of people obtaining the tickets and not turning up - more a case that they were never up for grabs in the first place.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Surreysinger
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 10:57 AM

Seems we are not alone in disliking Mr Hazlewood's approach to being a talking head !

Try here

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 11:16 AM

Goatfell, go and see Martin live; his introductions are hilarious - like the reason he called his last but one album Righteousness and Humidity and why he took all references to god out of When a Knight Won His Spurs (because anyone who talks to George Bush on equal terms dosen't deserve to be in a song). He does a lot of upbeat stuff as well.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 11:57 AM

I've seen him play loads of times - so you're the one rolling in the aisles. I thought it was some sort of affliction.

He's a terrific guitarist, but if you're looking for a night of unbridled hilarity - well there are more obvious choices.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 12:02 PM

Let me join forces with Ralphie on this one.

Excellent show - if you want to write to someone write to Roger Wright at Radio 3 asking for more.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 02:05 PM

I flamin well loved it... I wish it had been 2 days and more artists if I had to grumble but I really enjoyed it all :)

As far as the Beeb are concerned... they have been denying folk traditional and otherwise from the limelight for too long. It really peeved me off that they create 1xtra, radio 6 and 7 and not have created a folk one. Screw the classic snobs, I was brought up with both and have seen several events at RAH and love it as a venue.

I knew when I was watching Bella singing on the centre stage that the Beeb would omit a lot of it, I was hoping that they would provide a podcast but all I could find was the flippin !player (my little joke for the programmers among us) aka iplayer which is only available for a week!!! wtf!!! PODCAST IT BEEB3! let the masses have access to beautiful art, stop suppressing it!

It was great to see you Ruth... hope to see you in a couple of weeks :D

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 02:53 PM

Indeedio! 10 days and counting!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Tradsinger
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 02:57 PM

Did anyone notice that The Times said that there were 'no big names' in the Folk Proms? Martin Simpson?! Bellowhead?! If they are not big, then who is? It does betray ignorance of the folk movement on the part of the media as a whole - unless you're on TV or Radio 1 you're not a big name.

As for the concert, Mrs Tradsinger and I enjoyed it immensely. Bella came across as very confident, personable and with a good television face (whatever that is). People have commented on the sparseness of the accompaniments but they were well thought out with nice changes of chord, dynamics and pace. Martin is obviously a class act but we felt a lack of change of pace - after Matty Groves, the rest of his set was at the same pace. I know, that's what he does, but for me and Mrs T it would have been improved by something a bit quicker later in the set.

Bellowhead sounded fine to us but I read with interest the difference between hearing them in the flesh and on TV where you are in the hands of the sound technicians. The estactic audience reaction told us that they were doing just fine and I cannot accept the theory that they were phased by the venue or the TV or the occasion.

Agree with the comments about the MC. I shuddered when he commented it was brave of Bella to sing unaccompanied! Where has this man been? The Beeb has not yet shrugged off their patronising attitude towards folk music.

Lastly, we thought it was a sin to cut BH off as soon as they started Prickelie Bush.

However, despite all the above, it's chink of light at the end of the tunnel. People like Bella, Martin and Bellowhead can only give folk music a good name.

More, more, more, please, and tell it to the BBC.

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:11 PM

Some great info and comments on this thread. It was particularly useful to see the reasons for the bad mixes of Bellowhead and though I didn't find their performance good TV I could empathise with the enthusiasm of the audience. I don't know why they bothered with the words though. They were very much in the background to the music, as opposed to what Martin and Bella did.

I am no big fan of singer guitarists and don't remember ever seeing Martin Simpson before, but his Little Musgrove really was awesome in every sense, and I warmed to some of his other stuff.

Bella's treatment of the Night Visiting theme was also absolutely excellent and I thoroughly enjoyed the trio's unintrusive accompaniments. Yes the tuning and patter were excrutiating, but she is young and will improve on this. I've seen her a few times over the last year and she is coming on in leaps and bounds. She came across so confidently both in performance and interview, particularly for one so young.
Well done to all concerned!

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:29 PM

The operatic style singing at the end of the afternoon concert was hideous......HIDEOUS, I enjoyed Bella & Martin very much, but.....the applause was louder than the music......bad! As for Bellowhead, well I listened to my off air recording of Home Service on A Little Night Music instead - absolute magic. The orchestral attempts at Graingering were feeble.

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 04:39 PM

Have just watched the prog via BBC iPlayer (praise the Lord - it's a fantastic invention!!))

I thought the concert/prom, whatever you want to call it, was fantastic!!

Folk Music at The Proms - never thought I'd see the day! GREAT!!!

"What is folk?" - we could open up the old 1954 definition here OR, OR, we could just agree to disagree, and say that it was a part of Our world that was being shown to the outside world - let there be more of it!!!!

Whether you liked/disliked Ms Hardy, Mr Simpson or Bellowhead or not or the way that they played/performed - that is not important!!!

What IS important is that the "tradition", HOWEVER it is being interpreted, is being passed on to a live audience, MANY/MOST of which were clearly enjoying it!!!

Two of the three performers are young/younger than a large number of performers - they managed to get those in the Albert Hall rocking, toe tapping, swaying and going home whistling/singing tunes!!! Well done to them for that - we might see some up and coming performers in folk clubs and festivals in the future who have been influenced by those that we have just watched.

This has been a very interesting thread with some interesting comments from many of the "usual suspects"!!

Diane Easby - I am pleasantly suprised by your comments here (in comparrison to many comments on other threads).

Richard Bridge - Hoff, just lighten up a little - the experienced, and often traditional performers, are great, BUT, like it or not, the mantle of "Folk" is passing into the hands of another generation. I thought you would have like that.

Trevor - John Boden for the next Doctor Who. I LIKE that idea :-)

It was unsual, it was daring, it was different. "Folk" had a slot in a place where it normally would not. It wasn't perfect, it might not have "flipped all of the buttons and switches", BUT IT WAS THERE, and Joe Public got a taste of it.

If we, and they, push it, then hopefully we will get more coverage in a more prominent slot in years to come.

Let's be POSITIVE PLEASE!!!

Kev

Subject: RE: Folk Proms
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 05:00 PM

The tuning issue so frequently referred to in this thread was not even worth commenting on. Bella performed beautifully and plaintively, with a lovely touch of fragility to boot. Little Musgrave and Martin's song about his dad were wonderful. And try to cut Mr CH a bit of slack. He was not addressing a bunch of Mudcat folkies but a Beeb audience not entirely au fait with what we're all about. OK, it wasn't his finest hour, but he wasn't not on our side either.

If you have DVD-RAM recorder, and it's connected to your hi-fi,use a RAM disc and start to record the programme, then hit time-slip. You'll hear the programme in perfect sync, and you'll only be a few seconds behind the rest of the nation if you're quick. OK, it will be the telly pic and the telly sound, not the R3 sound, but still a lot better than relying just on the rotten sound of a mono telly. Where I am in Cornwall the R3 sound was in perfect sync with the picture.