Closing Threads

Subject: RE: Closing Time
From: GUEST,Phil at work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:00 AM

Ah, sour beer - the memories...

Years ago, I was in a pub in Manchester which shall remain nameless, and saw a sign up saying the guest beer was half price. Naturally I went for it (it was a beer I liked, which was a bonus). I got it back to my table and... hmm. Bit on the flat side... bit on the sour side... actually a lot on the sour side... Actually who am I kidding, this beer's gone.

So I took it back to the bar and told the pimply youth who was minding the pumps that the beer was off. "Yes," he said, "that's why we reduced it."

True story.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:58 AM

or maybe not that interested in mudslinging? or perhaps working?

Guest, are you a little ashamed hence being anon?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:43 AM

I think those of us who are working hard to promote folk music to the general public need to remember that places like mudcat are one of our few shop windows. There's nothing wrong with a heated debate as long as manners prevail and people try to address issues not personalities. What we see too often is not so much a heated debate as playground 'wuzz-fight.'

And this does our cause very little good, unfortunately.

Surely no-one should ever be afraid to stick his head over the parapet in the first place?

In fact, why is there even a parapet?

Tom

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 10:14 AM

"You probably frightened the kecks off them, Ruth. I know you do most people here... "

I know i have a strong personality and equally strong opinions, but i am very passionate about folk and the tradition. I'm not afraid of heated debate. I also know that I've made many friends through Mudcat, and have met up with them at lots of events. None of them seemed particularly scared, Paul. I also get lots of PMs from people who are personally afraid to stick their heads above the parapet, but saying to me, "I'm really glad you said that..."

So how about just speaking for yourself, Paul?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:57 AM

I dunno... the gooners have a huge arsenal of players that can run rings around the brummy back 4 ;p lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:57 AM

really? I've mostly had the barman simply replace my pint. - Ruth Archer.

You probably frightened the kecks off them, Ruth. I know you do most people here...

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:52 AM

Well Housten_Diamond, I'm gunner mek sure youw get walloped when the Villans play ya :-)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:42 AM

Sorry Snail... am just leaving...

lol about the tuba player, never liked the way he pronounced glass or grass anyway ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: TheSnail
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:37 AM

Good Grief! Houston. Are you still here?

PS Has the tuba player learnt a new tune yet?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:30 AM

That was a joke BTW b4 the strange crew decide to chastise again!!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:28 AM

Ummm... not 'Villain', but 'Villan' - a supporter of Aston Villa football team, which does not necessarily mean he isn't a 'villain'... sorry, Les!!

I'm an Arsenal fan and I beg to differ ;p lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:27 AM

agreed, Tom
the problem on this forum I think is this,that certain people get away with personal abuse,depending on who they are, who they know and who they are attacking,
someone called Jeri,called me an egotistical twat,when Icomplained to Joe Offer,he did nothing.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:27 AM

Tom and Ruth,

I appreciate your kind words... I was brought up with Herga folk club and am extremely privileged to have been... I have heard some of the greatest singers, musicians and dancers in the country and anyone who knows the club will realise that there are a lot of children from the residents of that club that have become a big influence on the folk scene today.

I felt a little joke would have cheered people up and also the lyrics of a song I know cheers a lot of people up.

I didn't mean to upset anyone, I also didn't realise that being of child folk stock was an insulting thing to be so I was going to encourage my 2 sons to learn about folk but since there is a stigma attached I think I'll delay it until they are adults and then they can make their own mind up.

I will still read the threads but I am not going to state my opinion unless I have to defend any of my friends. Thank you to all the kind people here.

I'm sorry and pleased that Big Mick closed the thread TBH, hearing that people in other countries looked at a festival in England as being a place to avoid really upset me.

I'm proud of the roots in this country and have pride in seeing them continue as where I live in NW London it is becoming very thin on the ground!

Roll on Sidmouth :D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:26 AM

;o)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:16 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Bernard
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:10 AM

Ummm... not 'Villain', but 'Villan' - a supporter of Aston Villa football team, which does not necessarily mean he isn't a 'villain'... sorry, Les!!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:09 AM

LOL

I remember a long time ago buying a pint at my works social club. The person who ran the bar was a miserable old toad and didn't always keep the beer in top shape. Anyway the beer was aweful (and I mean aweful), and I asked him politely if he could replace it and he refused. So i raised my voice a little bit higher and he stil refused and blathered on about "now't wrong with that pint". So each time he refused, I raised my voice higher. It was now a competition to see who would win. Anyway whilst he was arguing the toss and nobody else was getting served and the audience was getting bigger, I finally shouted out "OK Dick, you think your beer is so bloody good, then why don't you drink it now" he stuttered and flapped but with so many people around he was in a bit of a predicament. Anyway with only 2 choices, he chose to drink it. I made him drink the lot (to great laughter and cheers from the audience). When he had finished I wished him well and hoped that his time on the toilet in the morning would be pleasant.
He didn't do that on me again. :-)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:08 AM

I didn't mean to diminish your experience Betsy. I just think that the bad pint in a pub situation is one of the less awkward to deal with. I honestly can't ever remember being disputed if I return a pint and say, "Sorry - I think the barrel may be gone..."

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:04 AM

This is my point entirely.

Houston has been very reasonable and decent on this thread. Ok he was a bit upset on behalf of his friends on the original one, but he's made amends for that here.

Yet a post by an unnamed guest, which appears to be a nasty personal attack, is allowed to stand. It may have been meant as an ironic joke, but Houston has every right to feel affronted. But he just made a sad face and said 'ok then,' and 'bye all.'

I think he may be a recent arrival here, but I'd not blame him if he really did leave - with a very poor impression of Mudcat.

What exactly IS the mods' policy in this sort of situation?

When traffic like that is allowed , it's hardly surprising that a few actually very well-connected and powerful folk people sometimes think it's ok to behave like young offenders here.

And it's hardly surprising that we're all seen by outsiders as... well, you can supply your own descriptions.

A very sad Tom

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:58 AM

The analogy I made was in the hope That Villain succeeds in complaining, when I know it doesn't work when I try.
After all, it was an analogy to the original situation / thread which appears to have got out of hand. I think I have admitted that perhaps I don't know how to complain in the required manner, and even Ruth is charming enough to admit she has "...MOSTLY had the barman simply replace my pint ".
Fair Enough I say, but it's those occasions when they don't replace the pint, which I purposely avoid.
As for (Joe's words)- random rant - I enjoyed reading it and I'm sure many have been through a similar situation, but also, have you noticed when everything goes great on such an occasion, the triple checking the bill / moaning about price, seems to vastly diminish.
We are not buying simply a commodity or Service; we are also purchasing a small degree of feel-good factor, which is supposed to accompany the purchase.

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:52 AM

Houston - I think you're lovely.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:51 AM

"THere are so many other factors in the pub situation"

I am a particular fan of the approach to customer service in the Morris Clown!

Your friend's behaviour reminds me of my dad - he thinks this sort of thing makes him look like a discerning man of the world, when in reality they just make him look like a knobhead.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:29 AM

Before I leave completely... it's always the odd few that seem to spoil it for everyone in all areas of life it seems.

It must seem nice to attack people behind anonymity.

I bid you adieu and have fun.

Sorry if I upset anyone.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:22 AM

THere are so many other factors in the pub situation - how bad the beer is, how bad in comparison to the normal quality of beer the pub provides, how well you know the landlord, the manner in which you complain if you choose to do so. As a barman I would always change a beer if asked, if they cause a fuss and the beer is fine, I would offer something else. If they still cause a fuss then its their problem!

On a random rant, I went for a meal the other night with my girlfriend and 2 friends. The service wasnt amazing but the response by one of my friends made the situation very awkward. Getting a beer topped up that was about a millimetre below the measure line, moaning when the courses were brought out early, triple checking the bill and moaning about price, all made what would have been a reasonable meal into a pretty crap evening!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:11 AM

"Example:- Take a "bad" glass of beer back to the barman in England.
Stock answer - No one else has complained - Immediate Effect - Complainant isolated - end of story. One Party thinks it has done a good job the other Party feels aggrieved."

really? I've mostly had the barman simply replace my pint.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:07 AM

Hiya Villain,
I agree that walking away is maybe not the correct thing for YOU to do, but it is certainly the correct thing for ME to do, as I don't have your tact or diplomacy.
I completely accept everything you wrote and that your M.O. is the right way to do things.

Any overall cynicism about complaining, on my part, is largely based on other run-ins I've had, and I seem now to have a mindset, which is broadly based on the following: -
N.B.When reading the following, bear in mind that I AM English....

English (not British) Public Relations "ethics " appear to me, to rely on the Owner / Organiser / Boss firmly defending the status quo (who brought THEM into this discussion) in any situation.

Example:- Take a "bad" glass of beer back to the barman in England.
Stock answer - No one else has complained - Immediate Effect - Complainant isolated - end of story. One Party thinks it has done a good job the other Party feels aggrieved.

Take a bad glass of beer back to the barman anywhere BUT England.
Discuss, and furnish complainant with fresh glass of beer with a chat about how a such a thing could have happened and be avoided in the future occurred. Both Parties feel good.

Moral:- I don't want to be isolated, I want to feel good.   
   
On the censorship issue, some thickies like myself cannot detect deliberate disruptive individuals in the threads, though presumably they have a history of doing so.

Cheers Betsy

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:06 AM

Old Downeast saying, "If you know the dog bites"....

Joe has said time after time that personal attacks will be deleted. We all know that, but if you think the rules don't apply to you, well, you know the dog bites.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:01 AM

Bye all

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:59 AM

I don't understand why posters get so worked up about replies on threads... We are sitting safely at home/work behind a screen. Aren't we safe there?

I agree if you don't want to get upset about what's being said, don't open the thread. Let's have more free speach.

Sal

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:59 AM


Houston ,what are you on about, smug ,cocky troublecausing fool of a man - go away

:( ok then, sorry

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:54 AM

Personal attack removed.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:46 AM

Personal attack removed.

Guests must choose a consistent name and use it consistently. Otherwise their postings may be deleted.

- joe clone -

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:42 AM

We could have at least had a verse from Rolling Home though before it closed ;) lol

Something like;

We will leave you our best wishes,
We will leave your rocky shores.
For we're bound to dear Old England,
To return to you no more.

:D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 07:38 AM

I don't know how it works here but closing a thread is usually reversible and in some places and cases it may be used to provide a cooling off period or possibly to provide a mod with time to discuss a thread with admins without matters getting further out of hand or to spare them from having to make judgments on individual posts or posters.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:58 AM

We were at Towersey at one of the beer tent sessions - played a couple of tunes and the response was less than enthusiastic! Some girl even retuned my fiddle when she borrowed it!

I cannot comment on the Big Session issue, but with regard to the sessions at festivals, they seem very different to those I am used to in pubs or at morris events. A lot of the unwritten rules just arent there. Its not a good or a bad thing, just different.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:57 AM

"Fair play to them and get the cecil sharpe gold badges out , but, they WERE damned rude to me and I'm sure they know it and they havent even had the good grace to comment."

As I understand, they did try to converse and console on the thread but there was no reply.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,'cool as folk' brigade - PM
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 01:57 PM

link to post

But I don't disbelieve you Charley, I actually empathise with you and I am certain that some individuals were displaying bad behaviour. Please calm down because I respect your feeling mate :D

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:46 AM

" I really liked the pipes player, whathisname?!? Jakob?!?! "

yes - he's quite mad. A good ceilidh dancer, too.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Gulliver
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:46 AM

There have been hundreds of threads on Mudcat over the years that started off in a similar way to Charley's, relating to something that happened in a pub, or a festival, or folk club, etc. But few have produced such smug, bordering on arrogant, immature (IMHO) and disparaging responses as seen on this thread. I'm in principle against censorship, but I have to admit I wasn't sorry to see this thread closed. Sure, it was calming down towards the end, but that was only after the contribution of more level-headed posters who saw what was going on and commented on it.

Maybe I took the comments a bit too seriously, but I've been happily playing in all kinds of sessions for years and was depressed at the mind-set of some of the posters on this thread (and this includes those involved in organising sessions/festivals). But on the positive side, it did show me the kind of person I never want to get involved with at festivals or sessions.

Don

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Charley O'Neill
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:46 AM

Listen, I acknowledge the fact that this Cool as folk team were respectfull to other posters!! Fair play to them and get the cecil sharpe gold badges out , but, they WERE damned rude to me and I'm sure they know it and they havent even had the good grace to comment. That is what I'm talking about, no I am not delusional, yes they are good, it is so difficult to get a point understood on here!!!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:44 AM

oh... ok then :) I have a load of great photos from that (check on facebook) :) ... I really liked the pipes player, whathisname?!? Jakob?!?!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:36 AM

Houston, i know Ralphie and I was there when he was playing in the beer tent, so I assume that's what he means...:)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:33 AM

let's beat the records and do 400 messages in a day, but only nice messages please ;) lol

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:32 AM

Bloody hell this thread is growing very quickly, just like the other.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:27 AM

Be careful... are you talking about the bar on site 1? or the three horseshoes?

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Rasener
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:27 AM

Betsy
I don't know if walking away is the correct thing to do.
Most organisers are reasonable and wherever possible try to put things right.
I would much rather listen to somebodies complaint on a personal basis and try and put that right, than have them walking away dissatisfied.
If I go into a restaurant and I am not happy with the meal or service, then I go and have a discreet word with the person in charge and I have to say the situation is normally put right without any further problems.
Les

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:25 AM

it was the very same crowd, Ralphie. :)

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:24 AM

Well, if it's the same crowd that played in the bar at Towersey last year, not only were they splendid, musically, but they even let this arthritic 53 year old tina player join in....!
I felt blessed....!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:20 AM

I agree Phil but Ruth is also correct... they did seem to be hung, drawn and quartered before they could defend their actions. It's really hard for anyone to apologise when they have been accused so harshly and the incident is not fresh in their minds!

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:05 AM

"Um... because Charley was telling them he was upset with them, basically."

By the time any of them appeared on the thread they'd already been tried and convicted by various members - no wonder they were defensive and not necessarily responding appropriately to the original complaint.

Subject: RE: Closing Threads
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 06:05 AM

my post was the best ,I posted only once,and that was to direct people to the playing of the late great PaulDavis on sound lantern,the message here is succinct,make music while we can, we may be dead tomorrow.

I loved that... but I'm a sucker for concertina, big "last nights fun" fan cos of it ;)
I agree... I really cant see me playing a harp yet but when I do I want it to be a good session tune and I hope Paul Davis is entertaining the masses with his now because he was quality :D

Don't I know you Captain Birdseye?