BS: Question on McCain's academy record

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 01:07 PM

"President who will measure twice and cut once"

What's this, Jack the Sailor? Are you campaigning for Ross Perot this year?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 12:12 PM

McCrash has turned into McNasty.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: curmudgeon
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:55 AM

"McCain has had 50 years to learn practical skills ..."

Like sending an email?

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: pdq
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:49 AM

"...even though he's obviously more articulate and possessed of superior critical thinking skills."

No. Like Obama, Kerry had better speaking skills. Not the same as thinking skills. McCain has had 50 years to learn practical skills and his college record is not important at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: PoppaGator
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 11:37 AM

From the Robbins column (Link supplied by Ebbie, above):

...the bottom of the class tends to produce a different kind of leader than the top. Those who wind up at the foot are often there by choice. They could do better if they studied, but they would rather trade class ranking for other pursuits. They tend to be the risk takers, the innovators, usually very well liked and in their own way driven. They know how to get into trouble, and more importantly how to get out of it. They also tend to have more than their share of luck.

Not that I'm arguing in favor of McCain as a candidiate in this election, but I agree that college grades don't mean much in the long run, except for those pursuing an academic career.

Of course, I'm prejudiced, as a lifelong underachiever myself.

Incidentally, George W. Bush was not the only C-student with a Yale degree to run in the last election. John Kerry's grades at that same insitution were no better than W's, even though he's obviously more articulate and possessed of superior critical thinking skills.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 10:37 AM

After a couple, who's countin', Capt'n???

Like I've said before, had it not been for Vietnam and the need for anyone who could half-ass fly a plane (like me...lol...) John woulda been grounded after the first wreck and put behind a desk where he could do no harm...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 09:41 AM

Bobert, I believe it was FIVE planes.
He's an angry old man who goes for young women. Perfectly normal. However, when it comes to being president, I prefer a high IQ.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:52 AM

And just another thought on this issue and that is...

...haven't we seen what happens when we let the C- students call the shots???

("Well, Ralph, Washington is broke!!! Those folks can't do anything right!!!")

What I find amazing is the C- students use "Eastern elitists" to put down the, ahhhhhhhh, folks who actually worked hard and got the material???

That is the saddest part...

But like I said, let them need brain surgery and they are going to seek out the surgeon who studied hard and got the material but when it comes to runing the country seems like oppoiste is what these folks want just so that the person they are voting for ***beleives strongly*** (think Hitler here) in what the believe???

Go figure???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 08:30 AM

I'm with you, Capt'n... And I bet that those folks who think this is a non-issue are as well...

I mean, let's get real here... If you need tricky brain sergery yer gonna do alot of doctor checkin' out before you go under the knife...

What McCain's grades indicate to me is that he probably wasn't "Academy material" to begin with but go in because of family ties... Then he wrecked a couple expensive airplanes... Yeah, okay, he did get shot down... Who is to say that there wasn't some pilot error in that little situation??? Only he knows and if he screwed up he ain't gonna tell no one...

But bottom line, it's a fair line of conversation... Unless, of course, you are a member of the "McCain/Palin Crybaby Squad"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: kendall
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 07:47 AM

Jack, that's what I was looking for, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Sep 08 - 12:18 AM

I recently listened to an NPR bio of McCain,

What I heard may help to answer your question Kendall.

The ranking at the naval academy was not just based on grades. A big component was leadership. A big part of leadership was behavior and setting the proper example. He lost a lot of rank for misbehaving. That is not to say that his grades were any great shakes. He got very low grades in subjects he did not like. He would skip class, refuse to study and cram in the days before his exams.

He is certainly smart enough to be President and unlike the previous Republican standard bearer, he has a reputation for being well read.

He also has a reputation for being rash and hotheaded. He admits to having made rash decisions which he has regretted and admitted later. He says he takes full responsibility for his bad, rash decisions, That also makes him a better man than Bush. But wouldn't it be better if we had a President who will measure twice and cut once?

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:51 PM

"Do we find that Pailn used illegal ammo to shoot a moose? "

You mean there is legal and illegal ammo .... OMG!!

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:13 PM

"A recent Washington Post profile of John McCain's years at the Naval Academy portrayed him as an unruly, fun-loving, under-achieving Midshipman struggling with his obligation to live up to his family's brilliant military legacy. It was "a four-year course of insubordination and rebellion," McCain later wrote. McCain graduated 894th out of 899 in 1958, five spots above the "Anchorman," the lowest-ranking midshipman. In this respect he did uphold one family tradition; his similarly rebellious father Jack, who would rise to the rank of Admiral and was the Pacific Command CINC while his son was being held prisoner in Hanoi, had graduated 424th of 441."

From a Supporter

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 09:07 PM

I asked a simple question I get a pageant! Who the hell are you to tell me to get another issue? Do I need permission to post here?

Not that it's any of your friggin' business, but I have been having a discussion with a friend who asked that question and I couldn't answer it. I thought maybe some genius here could.So far, I have a load of horse shit and no answer. If you don't know the answer I'm not interested in your opinion of why I asked. Got it?

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: pdq
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:38 PM

Today's AP poll:


"McCain blew everyone else away on the question of who had the right experience to be President. Eighty percent said he did, 58 percent said Biden did, 46 percent said that of Obama and 41 percent said it of Palin.

McCain may be catching a break on how much voters identify him with George Bush. Voters say they believe he will take the country in a different direction than Bush by 50 percent to 46 percent."

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Arkie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:28 PM

J. Earl Moreland, president of Randolph-Macon College for a rather long period made a lasting impression with a quote I wish I could remember to do him justice. I sure heard it enough but over 50 years have since passed. It was to the effect of praising the "A" students and the "B" students for the marks they would make on the world, and being thankful for the "C" students who would be the ones to come back and endow the college. That said, McCain was my choice of the Republican candidates but he has provided no evidence that he would depart from the disastrous policies he helped enact. He claims to be a maverick but voting for 90% Bush favored legislation does make the case. His economic policy of handsome tax refunds to the wealthy elite of the nation is the same old, same old. His spit in the face, pull the trigger diplomacy plows no new ground. The only change I can envision should he somehow manage to be elected is the name of the person dragging the nation down.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:02 PM

A lack of achievement in a military academy might just be of some little importance in the CV of one who aspires to be de facto head of his country's armed forces, NO?

If not then the rest of us DO have reason to be SCARED MAN!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Peace
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 02:15 PM

I agree with SINSULL. Ya want crap on ANYone, just dig. If ya find none, make it up. Fuck, it worked for the Republican machine in the 2004 election. As to making it better, ensure that NO special interest group/lobby group gets more than five minutes of listening to. Filthy fucking Neocon bastards are destroying this planet and people are concerned about John McCain and what'serface? Gimme a break!

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 01:04 PM

He would be naieve to think that he could survive even one bit of the MIC agenda.

Even if he tried to play Maverick in the White House...

He would be given a lil whiff of smoke and poof suddenly its Gov VP President Palin who would OK more MIC schemes than they did by waking Ronald 'Alzheiemer' Reagan at 3AM and saying... OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: PoppaGator
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:55 PM

McCain was reportedly a "troublemaker" at the academy ~ "but," he says, "I was the leader of the troublemakers!"

Sounds pretty plausible to be, and actually a pretty fair recommendation as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not campaigning or voting for McCain, but I've always respected and pretty much liked him, until recently. I am very dismayed, even alarmed, at how readily he seems to have fallen into step with the most dangerous and most extreme elements in his party.

I find his candidacy downright scary these days, and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me whether he finsihed college first in his USNA class or last.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:34 PM

The academy produces soldiers not presidents. Bottom of the class or top, McCain proved himself a loyal soldier.

Our election campaigns are baffling. First the party members rip each other apart as incompetent, dishonest, inexperienced, etc until the conventions where they all get behind one candidate and unanimously agree that this guy is brilliant.
Then the national campaign begins and the same process repeats itself. Each party says the other's candidate is incompetent, dishonest, inexperienced,etc.
Then one of them gets elected and it's Hail To The Chief and lets all put our differences aside. Then 4-8 years of partisan bickering while the country goes to hell in a handbasket.

I am not exaggerating. Read the election threads for proof.

There has to be a better way.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:31 PM

GWB's dad was purported to have links to the Illuminatti.
His son W wasa member in good satnding with the Illiteraltti
and McHale uhh I mean McCain is the founder of the Noliteratti.

cartoon note

McCain's Navy sitcom - "I want the 4 guys I graduated ahead of transferred here to make me look good"

Uhh OK John but they all left the Navy.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:23 PM

Who gives a rat's ass about this!? It's bull-pucky. Everyone knows academic achievement has minimal positive correlation to life achievement.

Find a real issue, Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 12:19 PM

Hi Ebbie......I was thinking the same thing and the old joke is, "What do you call the person who finishes last in his med school class?"--------Doctor.

Once again, I don't want the guy as a President but we have a zillion threads on the friggin' election, the majority slamming someone. Back and forth and back and forth and in the end?????????

In some other one of these multitudinous threads they discuss whether personality or other things is what gets elected. The truth is that even with these two which are about as far apart as it ever gets, neither one will accomplish a tenth of what they promise (or desre) after taking office. The system doesn't allow it. Our best chance is with Obama....my opinion and others mileage may vary. To that end its important to take into account the personality and the decision making potentials of various candidates so their past becomes important.

Problem (to me) is that we focus so heavily we lose sight of how stupid some of the stuff is. I love Kendall, but think about it. McCain graduated from Annapolis, no mean feat even with the advantages of family he had. You still have to do the work and make the grade even if its low. The Honor ethic makes it tough to just slide by.

So now what? Do we find that Pailn used illegal ammo to shoot a moose? Or did Obama fail algebra and had to repeat? We know Biden plagiarized some crap in college. Why do we really care about it?

If we had this level of communication and knowledge and the same interest in crappola as a people for the past 225 years, we'd have had entirely different people in the White House. No maybes about it.....Time for a method change.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:19 AM

Who was it who once said something to the effect that the worst doctor in the world has patients.

Badly paraphrased, I know, but I can't think of the actual quote.

And a legislator once said, upon being labeled as 'mediocre', Mediocre people need representation too.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 11:18 AM

makings of a great slogan--"Smarter than at least four others"

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: Lox
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:33 AM

I'm interested to know why you'd like to know that?

If your reason is good, perhaps you could expand the question to cover how many graduates there were?

It might suit your purposes to condider what percentile he inhabits.

Subject: RE: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 08:28 AM

He graduated. Who cares, and what is the relevance?

Subject: BS: Question on McCain's academy record
From: kendall
Date: 12 Sep 08 - 06:28 AM

As we all know, McWar's score at the Naval academy was 5th from the bottom. What I'd like to know is, what was the highest score in his class, and the lowest? Exactly where did he stand?