BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:36 PM

Trouble is, the next generation always has to relearn the same lessons.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:22 PM

Just remember, it was trying to exclude Japan from trade markets, and thereby stifling her economy, that led to Pearl Harbour.

And the rest is history.

If we don't learn from our mistakes, we are doomed to repeat them.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: MaineDog
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 10:08 AM

Because we have given them the store: that's all thats left.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 09:25 AM

We import meat, poultry and other animal foods as well as grain, seafood, etc.
http://www.flex-news-food.com/pages/16475/China/Export/Food/USA/chinese-food-exports-us-top-us$4-billion-2007.html

Reading the labels won't help. The source of an ingredient is not always declared.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 09:20 AM

Melamine has now been found in eggs which leads to suspicions that animal feed was contaminated and the entire Chinese food chain affected:
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5QTX5JAwjbEV-o9P3l4joswpJWA

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: meself
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 10:51 AM

Thank you, Maryrrf, for a worthwhile post.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Gurney
Date: 26 Sep 08 - 04:17 AM

White Rabbit Candy, that's the stuff, enriched with Melamine.   One enthusiastic customer here has a kidney stone he's suspicious about.


Stone from plastic?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: JennieG
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:12 PM

Ditto here in Oz.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Gurney
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 05:43 PM

In NZ too, a milk-based candy, available in chinese speciality shops.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:18 AM

Well, big surprise...Chinese candy is being pulled off the shelves here in the states and in the UK. I wonder if terrorists are watching this scenario? Wipe out whole cities by fooling subtly with the food supply chain.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 01:41 PM

No! That can't be! It would be too rational.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 11:18 AM

And today in the news is the observation that China's recent milk adulteration problems may slow down approval of meat imports to the US. Do you think?????

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:22 AM

Let's face it. China owns us.

Walmart is the pusher.


Keep buying cheap stuff there and you support these imports.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:19 AM

Oops, looks like some of those links don't work. Maybe a Joe Clone ca fix? Children Inc.
Cashew Concern

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:45 AM

I work for a food importing company that imports from China, as well as India, Vietnam, Brazil, Malaysia, Thailand and a few other countries. Most of the items we import (such as cashews, pumpkinseeds, pine nuts, etc.) either aren't produced in the US or are not produced in sufficient volume for the domestic market - so they would have to be imported whatever the case if we want to consume them. It's an oversimplification to just single out all Chinese imports as 'bad'. There are excellent suppliers in China who are truly concerned about delivering quality products, as there are in the other countries I mentioned. There are also very low quality suppliers who are not concerned with quality, only with keeping their costs as low as possible and that can mean compromising safety, cleanliness, fair treatment for workers, etc.

But - guess which shippers are supported by most of the American importing community. It's the companies with the lowest prices that get the business, low prices made possible by low quality, lax safety standards, poor worker treatment.... A rough average difference between a top cashew shipper and a questionable shipper would be around $.10 per lb. Most of our customers won't pay that difference. They won't even pay a $.04 difference. The lowest priced supplier gets the business. And in many cases the buyer will throw out a low bid, and in order to get that business the supplier has to squeeze even more to make it work - most likely compromising the quality even more. We try to persuade customers that it's better to receive good quality from the get go than deal with the infestation, breakage, etc. that can result from poor facilities at origin (not to mention the fact that exploited child or prison labor may have been used) but I can assure you it is a hard sell. Quality doesn't sell. Cheap sells.

In order to differentiate between the shippers we set up a not for profit organization to inspect and certify facilities, which also offers a tracking system so the product can be traced from origin to consumer shelf. There is a $.04 upcharge for the inspection and tracking. We also donate a portion of the profits to an organization called Children, Inc. , an organization that has the infrastructure to fund programs for children whose families are employed in the cashew industry. Very few companies are interested - they don't want to pay the $.04 that it would cost to inspect and track. Here's a link to our program www.cashewconcern.com . One company that came aboard immediately is Feridies . When we showed them the pictures of high quality cashew facilites vs the cheap ones, they signed up immediately. This is a small family company that cares.   Keep them in mind if you order nuts for the holidays, and drop them a line to let them know that you appreciate someone with a social conscience and attention to quality.

We can't just point the finger at China - we must look at our own complicity in what is being imported. By "our own complicity" I'm talking about American businesses. Importers need to monitor the facilities they are importing from, and it may cost a little extra. I know that's hard to take in this economy, but frankly it's a little more expensive to maintain a clean, safety oriented facility with decently paid workers than to just provide a huge open courtyard where underpaid and often underaged workers sit on the floor and shell nuts next to a garbage dump. The only way to change things is for consumers to start demanding accountability and traceability.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:22 AM

It appears that Chinese officials have known abbout this for a while but kept it quiet until after the Olympics. Are politicians everywhere sleazy? Or is that a question for another thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:19 AM

Doesn't sound like that small a deal.

"24 minutes ago

BEIJING - }The number of children in China sickened by dairy products tainted with the banned industrial chemical melamine has jumped to nearly 53,000, the government said Sunday as it vowed to crack down on those responsible for one of China's worst food safety scandals in years.

"More than 80 percent of the 12,892 children hospitalized in recent weeks were 2 years old or younger, the Health Ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site late Sunday. Four children have died and 104 of the hospitalized children are in serious condition.

"Another 39,965 children received outpatient treatment at hospitals and were considered "basically recovered," the ministry said."

Why DO We Allow Imports of Chinese Goods?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Bert
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 11:42 PM

When you go into a store ASK!!! Do you have any "made in the USA".

You'll get a lot of funny looks, especially in Home Depot, If they say NO, then ASK!!! do you know of a good hardware(Or grocery, or whatever) store.

You won't get what you want but it is fun just looking at their faces when they can't give you an answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: folk1e
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

It's too late .... we're doomed, I say DOOMED!

Unless of course we refuse to buy just one product made in China.

Why?

Because the cumulative effect would push that business stream into liquidation! Exactly the same way the financial market works with "short selling".

Come the glorious day brothers! Power to the people (but not the Chinese people, obviously)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 02:28 AM

The baby milk formula seems to have been tainted because it was made from tainted milk. It seem that some farmers water the milk down, then add melamine to fool the factory protein-test routines.

This according to our news sources, who are concerned because the first producer to be found at fault is more than 40% Kiwi owned. None of the milk from NZ, and none sent back here, thank goodness.

There was also a TV programme here about 'what's in our food' that featured Chinese garlic. You can tell the difference because the Chinese stuff has the roots shaved off. Guess what part of the plant is tested for residues!

Kiwi garlic $16/kg, Chinese garlic $5kg this weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:52 PM

One succinct answer: Walmart.

Also, corporatists can make money this way.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:16 PM

Anyone remember a couple of years back when China rejected milk products from the US because of high nitrate levels?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 12:32 PM

Tests find chemical also in liquid milk in China

By TINI TRAN, Associated Press Writer
38 minutes ago



BEIJING - China's tainted milk crisis widened Friday after tests found the industrial chemical melamine in liquid milk produced by three of the country's leading dairy companies, the quality watchdog said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080919/ap_on_re_as/as_china_baby_formula_recall

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: JennieG
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 02:57 AM

Last week I processed a new book at work (high school library): "A year without made in China" , which looks like a very interesting read. It's already been borrowed by one of the teachers but I have my dibs on it when it comes back. Just in the brief look I had, it seems that doing without "made in China" goods isn't as simple as it first seems.

See if your local library has it.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:26 PM

Pretty much what I said, olddude....eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: olddude
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:09 PM

we can't stop buying, we owe them about a trillion dollars. Hey China you can no longer sell your defective products here. OK people pay us the trillion ... get it

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:55 PM

I heard on the news that about a score have been arrested in China over this.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM

I believe that China is also holding quite a LOT of HUGE notes on the US....borrowed money. Bush borrowed the entire 'stimulus refund' from China. They rather have us over a barrel. Any time we get obstinate about their products, they can start calling the notes in........

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:37 PM

On my computer I print out small attractive lables that merely say
'now with 25% MORE Melamine'

then I go to Walmart...

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:38 PM

You may have to do a bit of serching for products by country and category on the above site.

Check out the Chinese trade shows by category
http://tradeshow.alibaba.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ed T
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:26 PM

Try and find a non-chinese product in a dollar store.

This is how the Japanese and Tiawanese started. Look at them now.

China now produces just about everything the west used to.

They could not succeed without the input of western companies. Basically, these companies are selling their nations out, with their governments support. What for? Bigger profits now from lower wages, few labour or safety laws, patent laws, and an eager government that turn "a blind eye" to environmental impacts.

Check out their growing products here:http://www.alibaba.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:17 PM

Maybe?

XG

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:01 PM

We need to spot inspect here surely, both at the ports and on the shelves. And big places like Target etc. need to have their own inspections and prove it to the government. But mostly people should not be able to import anything, partiucalry anything people consum, without all sorts of in-country, in-factory inspections, done to universal standards by accredited labs etc. As it ups the cost, it will also decrease the demand.

And don't give up our farmland to buy stuff from overseas. Nutty beyond and above nutty. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:49 PM

I buy used (" recycled") from thrift stores that support something I want to support- ARC, homeless shelters, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Becca72
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:45 PM

My sister and I went to no fewer than 6 stores when she was looking for a new set of dishes. She was trying to avoid buying "made in China". We couldn't find any.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:17 PM

There are many varieties of salmon, only one (salmo salar) is Atlantic Salmon. All Atlantic Salmon are farmed. Other varieties are available commercially wild. Sockeye, for example.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 03:01 PM

ALL the atlantic salmon is farmed, now... and dyed to make the customer want to buy it ( farmed is normally grey)

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:58 PM

I buy wild salmon from Alaska -- whole fillets, which I cut into serving sizes and freeze. I buy locally grown beef and chicken whenever I can, likewise veggies and fruits.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:53 PM

Most ( all the frozen) of the crab here ( rear the Cheasapeake) is from Thailand- Even Philip's.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:50 PM

I eat only locally caught Maine shrimp. And yes I can tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:48 PM

People should be more aware of what and where their food comes from, and alwo be more aware of how their food is processed and in many cases the should pay more for good, quality food .... hell it's your health. Don't expect the government and corporations to look after your welfare ... but then again, if people were more aware and voiced their democratic concern to the government these issues would be a less of a concern.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:47 PM

So, California spinich killed at least one out of 300 million, and Chinese formula has killed three out of 1.7 million....

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:43 PM

The peppers came from Mexico...and the spinach (which killed one child around here) came from California.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:42 PM

About 75% of all shrimp consumed in North America is from the China and Thailand. These shrimp farms are actually very large industrial farms whose conditions are certainly in question as to ecological and health standards.

Why 75% of shrimp consumed in in the U.S. as to locally fished shrimp ... because people are unwilling to pay the higher price of local product, and they just don't really give any thought as to where, and what they eat comes from.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,This side of the Pond
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:39 PM

In Ireland, there was recent concern about chicken-meat imported into Ireland from China (sold more cheaply than that produced at home, of course), though labelled "packaged in Ireland" for sale in the shops. The conditions under which these chickens were raised would not pass Health and Safety regulations here, because the cages used were too small. These cages had been imported to China from Ireland, once the current regulations made them unacceptable. Nothing surprises me any more about the insanity of humanity (or some sections of it).

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM

Do you honestly believe that US food producers are not monitored more carefully than Chinese producers?


We have a system with SELF-INSPECTION by those in the markets- we have been lucky that there have been fewer ( but perhaps not by percent of population) individuals that have "cheated" to increase their profit.

The point is, China has a larger population: If we look at the percentage of people who are doing these things, the US probably has as large a percentage.

It is the ones we ( and the Chinese) do NOT catch that are the concern. Things that do not kill us, or make us sick immediately, but might have a cumulative effect over years of exposure.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM

Bruce,
Those peppers came from Mexico. Accidental contamination as with the recent tomato problem is very different from the deliberate poisoning of infant formula or pet foods.
Do you honestly believe that US food producers are not monitored more carefully than Chinese producers?
M

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:52 PM

Bruce, I agree. And that, my friend, is another gift from your friends over at the Republican, conservative, "keep government out of my business", crowd that has spent the last several decades dismantling the regulatory and enforcement powers of the food inspection laws, the trucking laws, the laws that regulate the financial industries...... how many more examples you want? How about the prescription drug industry?

To put a simple answer to Sins' very simple, but very deep, question...... it is because the folks that believe that most of the capital should rest in the hands of fewer and fewer people. Until the people rise up in this country, indeed around the world, and strike out against these bastards, it shall remain so.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:48 PM

My title is oversimplified too, Mick.
There was a time when "Made In Japan" meant cheap and tacky but not, as I recall, dangerous.
With China, it almost seems to be a game of Catch Me If You Can and it is a function of our government to do just that.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:42 PM

Let me see... Three killed, several thousand sick in China ( 1.?? billion pop?)


ANybody recall the Salmonella contaminated peppers? In the US (Pop 300 million) how many were sickened?

Seems like we need to look at the imports, but we have little room to tell them to improve quality when we are as lax as we are about US products.