BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:41 PM

China's pollution arrives in the Western US and Canada every day. We send it on to the East, and eventually it arrives in Europe. Granted, it gets diluted on the way.

Of course, India is sending THEIR pollution to China, so maybe it all evens out in the end.

I just got rid of a pair of shoes I've been wearing for 10+ years -- my wife made me get a new pair in the same style and now I have to break them in all over again. My home computer is 5+ years old, and my printer is an HP 4L (check the age on THAT!). My car is a 1999 and I have a very nice, very accurate rifle that was made in May, 1918.

Sorry China, et al. -- I try not to be either an impulse buyer or a throw-away consumer.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:26 PM

I suppose that I'm missing an implied acknowledgement of the issue that I am addressing but being as literal as I am, I don't see it.

Since we know that Chinese citizens are being sickened and even killed daily by China's lack of effective standards, why are we so blase as to trust China's exports? Are we not playing fast and loose with our own citizens' well being?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Big Mick
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:06 PM

I suppose, Joe, but one start would be to use tariff laws that basically charge a country tariffs based on what they charge us. This old crap about using the USA for a dumping ground for the goods of one country, built by what amounts to slave labor and with no environmental standards, or labor standards (giving them an enormous advantage, but when we want to export hard goods there, we are met with huge restrictions. Before the nitpickers start, I know that this is a very oversimplified comment, but the nut of it is valid. I am completely aware of my own country's shortcomings in some of these arenas (can anyone say Kyoto?), but hopefully we are going to resolve that in the next 7 weeks. It's time, in fact well past time, for global discussions on labor standards, environmental standards, etc. In the meantime, stopgap measures which protect the safety of the food and goods supply, and protecting the middle to lower classes jobs, in this country would seem to have some merit.

I will now excuse meself to duck down behind yonder large relic of a bygone age (otherwise known as a boulder) to shelter meself from assorted thrown projectiles. Anyone seen the aul cap and wellies?

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:59 PM

like I said, Joe...we can't easily "block" trade...all we can do is begin rebuild our own capabilities, thus improving our economy AND encouraging China to do better. Maybe a sane balance can be achieved.
   As it is, we are really in trouble if we have major problems with China in other areas. We say "human rights abuses"...they say "shoes"... and 50,000 other nouns we don't want to do without.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:57 PM

"but I do believe it would be a huge mistake to block imports from China."

I certainly agree ... all those huge 'box stores' would go bankrupt ... and the government would have to jump in and save them with $billions$ of tax payers money .... just like they've been doing in the last few days with the big $finacial$ institutions.

Boy ... and we don't need (I mean afford) that again.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:50 PM

I think it's important that we don't get overly hostile toward China with regards to trade. A strong trade is certainly a cheaper way to maintain peace, than military options. The uproar in American news media and the market should have some effect on Chinese food inspection. It may be more effective than government intervention, although it's clear that we need to have a higher level of inspection on our side.

It reminds me of the days of Upton Sinclair. China seems to be suffering from the unbridled capitalism we had under the "robber barons" of the 19th century. When profit is the only motivator, things like this are likely to happen. Inspection alone may not be enough to stop it - it's too easy to evade inspection.

I don't think there are any simple answers, but I do believe it would be a huge mistake to block imports from China.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:38 PM

Any country that has serious health inspection issues in their own country has no business being considered for export to countries that pay more than lip service to inspection standards in their own country, surely? You follow that?

Let me try again: Any country whose standards are so lax, so poorly regulated, considered so unimportant, should not be considered safe for import to other countries.

If either Mexico or Canada had so abysmal a record we'd shut down the trade quick enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:37 PM

A lot of sellers on ebay offer a selection of goods at a fraction of UK market cost. Their auction states bid with confidence,"UK based seller" Then you read their feedback, a load of negatives as buyers waited six weeks for item sent from China !

We were once a quality producing nation,sadly also an expensive one. Cheap imports serve a disposable society well.

EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:36 PM

Poeple want cheap stuff ... and the corporations want bigger profits.

Simple as that.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:33 PM

Sinsull, you're living in Cloud Cuckoo Land. It is well established that the US and EU are always desperate to keep "free trade" at bay (the impoverishment of Africa is testament to that). But even to talk about blocking Chinese imports is sheer lunacy. Part of Paul Burke's point is that any admin attempting such a move would be voted out of office forthwith because the result would be a truly colossal rise in your cost of living.

And inspections are utterly out of the question, with 3-4 million containers arriving on the US west coast from China every day. Just be grateful that, so far, no crackpot has stashed a dirty bomb into any of those containers, the overwhelming majority of which are waved through completely unchecked.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:27 PM

We 'allow' imports from China because they offered to supply them cheaper, and once we had burned our bridges and HAD limited other options, some of them decided that quality could be varied. The problem of inspecting and enforcing standards in a county like China is beyond monumental.
If your shoes don't seem to 'quite' fit like you want, that's a nuisance...when the games are played with drugs, food products and paint on children's toys, it gets serious.

I can't forsee any long term solution besides reversing the trend and beginning to rebuild our own production facilities and scaring China into some serious monitoring if they want to keep ANY business.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:11 PM

Paul, I don't get your point. I am referring to product safety. China's record is abysmal.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:08 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20070522/bl_cover22_chinafood.art.htm


Note: melamime is what killed off a number of pets when contaminated pet foods were imported from China.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:05 PM

Do you believe in free markets for everyone, or just free markets for USA interests? If the latter, the Chinese will politely ask you to get lost. If the former, this is what a free market does. Always.

I don't believe in free markets, just free-ish (especially on a local scale) ones. But if my economics were introduced, stuff would be a lot more expensive for everybody (in the west), and you'd have a lot less of it and have to make it last longer. You'd have to walk and bike more, and use public transport more, and give up your SUV. So no one would vote for me or anyone else with those policies, so it's not going to happen.

And you aren't going to get development of locally sustainable economies developing to fit local situations elsewhere, while the west (governments and corporations) are employing a local goon squad on 5% of the profits to keep the rest of the locals quiet, while they take what they can by squeezing the resources.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 12:04 PM

I vaguely remember a number of around 40% of our apple juice coming from China. Once it is blended into products, it is not declared as Made in China.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: GUEST,Elliot Lurie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:57 AM

I watched a programme recently and was surprised just how much comes out of this country and ends up in alternative packaging. It is not compulsory to stamp made in China on every item.

Nice country though, spent a little time out there.


EL
XOX

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:52 AM

JimmyT, that smacks too roundly of Let the Buyer Beware, imo. Surely the solution is at the gates of China, not once the goods are in this country?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: jimmyt
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:48 AM

we can stop buying them. Let the marketplace deal with this problem. If people stop buying, Walmart will find another supplier and we will all be better. Alternatively we can set up another government agency to inspect all imported goods. that will ultimately drive the cost of goods from everywhere to a price that will be ridiculous.

Subject: BS: Why do we allow imports of Chinese goods
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 11:25 AM

12 babies dead and 6200 ill. 1200 seriously ill and hospitalized. Milk was watered down and tainted with melamime to increase the protein content and get it past inspectors. Chinese officials knew about it but did nothing until their Australian affiliate blew the whistle. Tainted dairy products are turning up all over China and in about a dozen other countries. So far none in the US.

After the toy fiasco, why do we still import from China? Or why do we not crack down and inspect every scrap that comes into the country? Can we realistically boycott Chinese goods?