BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 07:30 AM

I have two points--First, that I see different problems than the ones that folks are proposing solutions for. Second, that these problems have been with us for a while, and a lot of people have been seriously impacted by them already. That's it.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: maeve
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 08:41 AM

"No advice here on how to keep the house when you lose your job--no advice on what to do when you have good income, but your credit is overextended. No advice on what to do when you need a car to work, the old one is shot, and you can't get financing for another one--"M. Ted

Fair enough, M. Ted. I'll give it a try.

1. Keeping the house when you've lost your job-

Talk to your mortgage holder right away. Many will work with you. Talk with your bank's Customer Service officers. If you've already been actively working to pay off the loan and to refinance when appropriate you'll be in better shape if you do lose your job. Better yet, also pay off the loan as quickly as you can. Even a small extra payment each month helps, and in troubled times can indicate to the loan holder what a good risk you are. You may be better off selling the house and renting as you pay off your debt. Here are two online sites with information and tools to help with these and other financial planning. There are others out there.

http://www.smartmoney.com/personal-finance/

http://www.crown.org/Tools/

2. Good income, but credit is overextended-

Get help from any of the good financial planning sites (see 2 examples above). Some banks make a practice of helping customers make a financial plan, and many accountants can do that and offer practical advice beyond the basics. The usual recommendations tend to start with an overview of your actual debt, actual income and present savings. Next, make a spending plan/budget (again, the financial planning sites often have tools available). Pay off one debt at a time, starting with small, high interest debt. As you pay off one, add the amount you have been paying to that one to the next one on your list. As you gain control over your total debt, start adding to emergency savings. Three month's expenses is an oft recommended emergency fund amount for which to aim . The key is to stop adding to your debt while reducing current debt and increasing savings.

3. You need a car to work, the old one is dead, can't get financing-

This is where talking to people with know-how and creative approaches to practical problems pays off. There are often pretty good repairable used cars available through automotive repair shops. Talk to your neighbors as well as your co-workers. We sold our extra car to our next-door neighbors for just enough to cover the parts we needed for our most used vehicle. Four years later they're still getting good use from it. Be prepared to ask others for a lift while you're looking for your own car. Talk to community organizations including churches, Lion's Club members, and the like. Offer to trade whatever skills or possessions you can offer for the vehicle, for repairs, for carpooling, etc. You may need to be looking for work nearer home, or you may find it's wise to move closer to your job. We have done all of these.

4. As my husband and I figure out how to cope with what the world throws at us, we're looking for ways to help others in our communities to find the help they need. You might be the one to help someone else deal with something you've already handled. I hope something here is helpful. I'd be happy to respond to a PM if I can offer any encouragement.

Bee, another time I'll make a post regarding gardens and such.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:06 AM

Okay, let's be REALLY serious now --

The bottom falls out, really falls. No power, no fuel, no railroads, no trucks. No running water, no sewage treatment. No more ammunition to hunt with, no more flour, no more sugar, no more prescription medicines. No nothin'.

First thing that would happen is that a lot of people would die, and not necessarily in riots or gang fights or that crap. Respirators would stop. No kidney dialysis. No oxygen refills. No "Meals on Wheels." No insulin. No help when you fall and can't get up. No telephones or Internet, no cell phones.

Back to Dark Ages.

I don't expect it.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 09:45 AM

Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition, but you can expect religious sects to be more desperate, defensive and vindictive than you could ever have expected.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:07 AM

i AM MAKING SOLAR WINTER WINDOWS

They are just those cheap one inch thick 6X4ft white insulating panels with the outside spray painted black and a circle cut and sealed with plexi or shrink wrap and finally fitted to the windows from the inside.

The circle can be as small or large as the window and panel permits

This is practical for me since I have 4 15 ft windows, two of which are floor to ceiling.

They are super light and can pull out to open the windows on a nice day.

The main room has a poor man's designer theme of round tables and chairs with other circles and globes, so circular window looks fine

Shelter, heat, food, water, medicine...

what am I forgetting...

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Janie
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:17 AM

Your guitar?

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Amos
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:22 AM

It may get rough, relatively speaking, but it ain't gonna get that rough unless some one shuts down the oil industry completely. That's one of our key points of massive system failure--our whole balloon depends on it.

One reason is that we no longe rhave a fallback in the horse-driven infrastructure we had even 90 years back. So if cars/trucks fail, it's shank's mare. Ouch.

We'd come up with something, though. We are survivors.

A

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:35 AM

HEY I fit a electic motor & batter to my bike with an automatic gear shift a couple years ago.

These electric motor kits for bikes are really great and with a ittle kidee trailer in back it can haul a hundred pounds of groceries.

20-30 mile limit though... 30mph is a breeze.

The conversion kit is as simple as changing a tire.
I did make a custom battery holder though which wasn't so easy.
Hell you can put the battery in the trailer.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:59 PM

That's the thing, Amos.

We are survivors and we come from survivor stock.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Janie
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:05 PM

I have a problem. I can shoot a groundhog or trap a rabbit. I can skin, dress and butcher them. But once I have done all the above, I can no longer eat them.

It's a good thing I like beans and cornbread.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:17 PM

You'd be surprised what you can do if you are hungry enough.

How about rats, snakes, gerbils, hamsters, guinea pigs, dogs and cats?

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: TIA
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:17 PM

I got about 3/4 acres of bottom land along the crick...currently lawn, but it'll raise some good crops. And, if the bank comes to take it, we'll sic the cattle dog on 'em.
No sweat.
Seriously.
(the lawn is dead already).

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 07:43 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20081004/cx_cl_uc/cl20081004;_ylt=ApFbBxNGXMfE37JgFob7jd7ccLQF

Winnebage condos...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 08:15 AM

"if your employer needs credit to do business"

Once upon a time, small businesses did not 'need' credit - but everybody USUALLY had '30 days to pay', which nobody really considered 'credit'.

If a business 'needs' credit to pay wages, then it is really running 'close to the bone' - which is what has happened to all business - all keen to 'work their money harder' - look what happens to farm land with that brilliant idea....

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 08:17 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/comics/uclickcomics/20081003/cx_zi_uc/zi20081003;_ylt=Ap_xt842YX6s2zYQM_kK8Y226ysC

My variable rate mortgage gives me MOOD SWINGS...

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 09:50 AM

Some of us learn to manage money efficiently later than others. Some of us learn how to spend more efficiently when we figure out how to look at what is around us and realize much of it is luxury and unnecessary. The Congress passed bailout bills this week, a period in which people cast a wild gaze around and wondered what in their present lifestyle was going to have to go. That "credit bailout" bill was a way for the consumer habits of Americans to keep going as before. Keep borrowing, keep spending.

Most everyone will forget, this will be a memory like an almost forgotten dream. The smart ones will learn from it and try to fix things, but I predict that they will be outnumbered, that the majority will move to go along as before.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 09:54 AM

Like the old cowboy said, "Mebbe one percent learns from readin' and thinkin'. Mebbe another two percent learns from thar mistakes. And the rest of us jist keep pissin' in our boots."

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:13 AM

What if you have no job or savings but you can be productive soon?
Prosper.com is a website that sponsors peer to peer lending. Ig you have nothing to qualify for a commercial loan this is a good alternative.


What if you have some savings.
GOod news, banks are so cash starved they are paying up to 5% for cash deposits. Hey it used to be 1%.


What if you feel alone in this.
Then you are delusional. There are a million white collar unemployed hobos out there waiting to be organized into a productive enterprise.

new enterprises: I don;t know but by free assciating and distilling ideas a new economy will emerge...

House rental swaps, chow houses, non electric food storage, and all those ideas you wanted to do....there are others out there who feel the same way.


need a house in the boondocks?
rammed earth used tire houses and water filled galss bottle solar windows cost only the gas for a truck to haul the free materials.
Trench toilet at first and then solve the water question. Runoff collection etc. Then you can get fancy

New use projects. maybe the stuff in your area is rare everywhere else. use me, sell em.

Co operative gardens.

dead wood collection

good luck and remember the only thing that has held any of you together so far has been love. Saying it out loud more often will motivate plans better than promises or greed.

Subject: Community and Triage
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:20 AM

I have a problem. I can shoot a groundhog or trap a rabbit. I can skin, dress and butcher them. But once I have done all the above, I can no longer eat them.

Been there (simlarly not identically), and done that. The solution is very simple. Barter with someone to get what THEY processed. If you get on a regular buddy/community system with others, you will all eat well. We know this when it comes to the movement of garden produce around our circle, but meats can be approached the same way.


I guess Hardi and I have been philosphizing and planning about what we call "The Credit Bubble" for a long time, knowing it will pop in our lifetime. The effects of it extend so very far that to deal with it, you have to know the underpinnings. Most people we know, at this point, are just starting to do the "surface thinking." I can only summarize our "prep" by saying that we have minimized credit for a long, long time, and that our investment has been in community, not commodity. We refrain from generating our own credit bubble, and we don't live off someone else's.

Where we live..... we can live here, pretty much no matter what. We can downsize at any time to whatever degree is needed-- it would take about 3 days-- and we know enough about the details that would be involved to do it pretty confortably. I don't mean downsizing to a smaller house. If we had to, we're prepared to downsize all the way to a tent, 'nuff said. I have done it in the past. I've always lived "raised poor." You dont forget the tricks, and you don't let go of them easily.

But in the meantime we're pretty well positioned to keep ourselves to remain "those who look after others," rather than having to scramble for our own comfort. That doesn't mean we are rolling in dough we can pass along; it means that our comfort level is and will remain at the point where we can think and respond with enough clarity to help people do some positive thinking of their own in whatever may come up.

I think that's the secret of surviving in the minstry-- to always keep yourself healthy enough to remain a step ahead of the crowd so you can help them when they need it... because one of our favorite sayings is, "They know who to call." But another one is, "They prefer the hope to the reality." Eventually, as we get older, if we survive, we learn to take both the hope AND the reality.


A case in point. I have twice now offered some seriously-reality-based thoughts to an individual I am thinking of today, who prefers not to listen at the moment. That tells me that this individual is not yet at the place where their own "smarts" have gotten them into enough trouble that they can tell the difference between their hopes and a real, solid upward path. And that's fine-- because the day that person realizes they need to listen-up, they will recall what I said and/or my phone will ring. Till then I have my hands full of the last one who needed to call. And so it goes, around and around. (And of course sometimes I'm the one calling others when my "smarts" wear thin.)

Several times a year I get emails, calls, or in-person indications that whatever I said years ago finally kicked in, and usually an apology for not listening. The acknowledgement is nice because it updates me on what their next level of help-need may be, but the apologetic mindset helps them, not me; after I hear them process their thoughts about this, I just tell them to pay out that line, that kind of slack-- to someone else when they get a chance. My mom taught me this pattern-- we laugh and laugh when I call to tell her what lesson from her parenting kicked in "yesterday."

Community. It has its own triage built in, because not everyone can listen and accept at the same time. Good thing too, or we'd all be overwhelmed and panicked at the same time!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:45 AM

Guard against magical thinking and superstitions.

When people start to feel helpless or powerless they get a bit primal. REligious nuts start to make their own Lord of the Flies scenarieos IF OU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
The old clubs and church buddies are not as forthcoming as people thought. Friends go south over small debts and absurd lines are drawn

So when you feel superstition and paranoia are coming together to create virtual magical thinking (this goes way beyond prayer or wishful thinking) let people know that things are easier and quicker to solve in a down to earth fashion.

I will not include the term conspiracy theory. Afterall the 7 year warnings that a conspiracy to rob the country is underway, is not a conspiracy theory. The facts are around us.

Sometimes the people who go "magical" or Lord of the flies nasty ... they need to be told
THAT IS NOT HELPING.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 11:10 AM

The senators were already sensitive to that one, Donuel. Maybe they do understand what we face:

"In April 1996, Sen. Pete Domenici stood on the floor of the Senate and told colleagues "now is the time" to pass legislation requiring insurance companies to cover mental illnesses just like other medical conditions.

More than 12 years and numerous setbacks later, that legislation is finally becoming law, tucked into the administration's $700 billion rescue package."

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 12:00 PM

"[Personal finance talking head] Jennifer Openshaw advises investors to keep saving in their 401(k)s and keep a year's worth of cash stashed away in a CD."

Okay, fine. Oops now where did I put that year's worth of cash?

----------------------------

Rapaire I'm glad you fessed up to taking a hit - I was beginning to think I was all alone on this board. My retirement stash (which isn't enough to keep me in premium cat food) is down 40% (while the S&P 500 went down 21%) and my house is down 40% (while nationwide statistics are down 16%.) Plus I have only a single income, in a job that is nowhere near secure.

Maybe I should invest in a year's worth of ammunition. (It's still less than gold I hope.)

I think I'd better head in to work.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 12:06 PM

We can always start a MudBank.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM

We took our big hit about six years ago as a result of outsourcing. We ended up living in a travel trailer on savings for a couple of years, and now our ability to make a living (and our banking) is not so dependent on the US economy. We aren't particularly secure by US standards, but we're managing to continue to move forward. I hope that will continue to be the case even during these insane times. And I have planted a garden in the side yard, and I plan to put one in the power cut behind the house soon.

We hope to have enough money to drill a well soon (even though we live in a small city, there is a clean underground river flowing under our house), and I will insist that a hand pump be installed along with the electric one. Two of our neighbors already have wells, and one has a hand pump, so even if we don't drill one ourselves, if the water goes out, we will still have access to water.

Our neighborhood is a pretty tightly knit community, so if things get really bad, the people here will all pull together and help each other out.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Bee
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 01:34 PM

Community solidarity is really important.

I worry most about people (the vast majority) living in cities, should things go bad. They have the advantage that as long as government functions at all, I think the cities will be fed and people kept warm in some manner. But in many ways, they are much more vulnerable because of their sheer numbers. Planting city veg gardens is a great idea when times are pretty good, but they are theft magnets for hungry people when times are bad. So someone gets fed, but often not the labourer.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 01:52 PM

In this neighborhood we have the advantage of being surrounded by a meandering creek and cyprus swamps on three sides and a cemetary on the other. There's a lot of empty land surrounding this neighborhood, and if necessary, people could plant gardens in the empty parts of the cemetary. The people in this part of town had a history of self-reliance. They're mostly African Americans, and because of the history of African Americans in the US South, they know a hell of a lot about surviving under adverse conditions. And most of them have served at some point in their lives in the US military, so they know how to protect themselves with a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 02:20 PM

Speaking of cemeteries- if not for the squeamish about us, wouldn't they be good spaces for community gardens? Coffins are lowered well below gardening depth.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:05 PM

GOOD NEWS

maybe the kind of good that being in the eye of a hurricaine without wind but good none the less.

Someone, no one knows who! , stuck the best possible option for us all into the bail out bill that George Bush unwittingly signed.

It is the option for the Treasury Secretary to opt to implement stock share buy ins (like what Warren Buffet does)
instead of only buying traxh with tax payer money.

You see banks don't want the government moving into their house with the authority to throw out the freeloader crook. They just want cash via the free for all Paulson program.

The option clause was worded very wisely but and its a big BUT
Henry Paulson will have 60 days to dispose of as much of the 800 billion dollars as possible.

A new Treasury secretary will then be able to use the stock clause to truely let taxpayers invest instead of giving cash to the compulsive gamblers to supposeldy pay off their gambling debt.

So Good news if we use the inserted option and if Paulson doesn;t blow all the money in two months..

Finally someone overnight snuck in something good into a bill for a change.
My blessing goes out to the annonymous savior.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Bee
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:14 PM

That would depend on the cemetery. The graveyard my family lie in had graves over 150 years old. The older coffins were of plain wood, and the land is bedrock with soil not so deep. Many coffins only had a couple feet of soil over them to begin with.

I had the un-nerving experience as a teen of stepping too close to one of the older graves, which are often identified by their sunken appearance. My leg went into the grave halfway up my shin, and I don't know (nor care to) how much of what I felt and heard by way of crunchings and squashings was down to roots and earth or rotted wood and brittle bones. (Again, I am so sorry, Great-great-great-aunt Margaret!)

The moral of that story is: even at your standard six feet, soil erodes, wood rots, empty spaces fill in eventually. It's best to take care walking near (and especially on) old graves, and gardening atop them, especially if using a plough or tiller, ought to be approached with delicacy.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:20 PM

The markets are all about confidence.

Our biggest problem now is that no one has confidence in the Bush administration. If Obama is elected things will turn around quickly. If McCain is elected and he appoints Gramm or any of his ilk to a cabinet position, God help us!!

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:06 AM

Did I say 40% gone? Oh, yeah, well that was yesterday. Today it's 47.56%

(And I bought very conservative stuff.)

Can only laugh I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:10 AM

Some years back, during the Silicon bust, my retirement funds lost more than a third of their value. Of course, it was all just on paper.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Janie
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 01:52 AM

I just moved, am not finding the neighborhood very welcoming thus far, and have no sun. I hate to think about cutting down oak trees to have a garden spot, but am seriously considering it.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 02:21 AM

Sorry, forgot to post name...

From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:20 PM

If Obama is elected things will turn around quickly.

This is complete nonsense!!!
I've told you a dozen or more times, that regardless who 'wins' the election, that the dollar was going to be de-valuated, after the election(if it can wait that long). I've said a lot of 'right on' things in here, and all I get is arguments from starry eyed 'kumbaya-ers'....even when what I've said comes true in front of your very eyes! Not to mention shpeels on responsibility, in regards to reliance on the government for a number of things.

Obama wants to 'give' us all these entitlement programs, which no one can pay for! The government CAN NOT continue to print fiat money, to pay for any of it. Obama promises to cut capital gain taxes for small businesses..only problem is..small businesses don't pay captial gains taxes..they pay business income taxes..but you just keep lapping up this crap, like the good little media fed robots that this nation has become!

McCain is not much better! What you have here, is the two wings of a SOCIALIST party pushing through their agenda. I believe that this is the reason that so many people are undecided about who to vote for...nobody, in their gut feels 'right' about either one! Now we have had, for years, a capitalist/socialist system, but that, dear boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, is about to change!! We are headed for a socialist republic...like the last 'SR' in USSR..which was (and is) an abysmal way of life. Gone will be all the perks of entitlements that we've grown so accustomed to. Fuel is going to go through the roof, credit, gone..inflation rising faster than a woody in the morning! Retirement pensions will be meaningless, if even around...social security, a memory....Jobs?..forget it!..even those ones that American citizens 'wouldn't take, so the illegal aliens had them!..All those lame-ass propaganda nonsense talking points will make you sick, when before you embraced them. We've been had, by a corrupt(remember me mentioning that??) political agenda for decades!!..which I've been pointing out to you, and NOW THE MEDIA IS FINALLY 'BRINGING IT UP' occasionally. I've implored you, as writers, and musicians to sing, write and speak against it...what have I gotten??..zilch(except for a few)!!

Now is the time(maybe) to retrieve your heads from your posteriors, get off the bullshit party lines of idiocy, and get right...and confront it..ask the right questions..and in the meantime buckle your seat belts and and hang on...this is going to be a lot tougher that you've even imagined!

God Bless, and stay safe!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 08:38 AM

Obama wants to 'give' us all these entitlement programs, which no one can pay for!

A typical GfS post.

This Bush mess has put "paid" to a lot of initial plans any candidate may have formed. This crisis calls for staying the course the clean up the mess Bush has set in place, but the smart candidate will keep his eye on the middle-distance at the very least, and not just the immediate problem at his feet.

If you want to struggle along as before, with one of the engineers of this mess, then go with McCain. If you want someone who will try to find rational solutions that move beyond hiring the heads of corrupt banks and institutions and is able to look at the larger picture, I think you have to choose someone who can think on his feet and keep a cool head while consulting experts from at least two parties. Obama fits the "white knight" role a lot better than McCain.

The debates tonight will be interesting. Let's see if McCain can get an answer out of his mouth that suggests solutions to the problems and not simply unsubstantiated attaks on his opponent.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:36 AM

Janie, container gardening or a community garden?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 02:37 PM

Wake up SRS...it's a bit bigger than you think....

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 03:03 PM

Yes you're right guest, UK banking system is in the process of collapse. Royal Bank and HBOS both lost almost 40% of their share value on today's trading.

In the US, the Federal Reserve is by-passing the banks and propping up the real ecomomy. This is serious shit and everyone talks about "White Knights".

The solution to this will be harder to uncover than the location of the Holy Grail, but the solution is in our hands.

Not just SRS but all of us need to waken up to what is actually happening. This is time for REAL change and that won't come from Obama or McCain..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 03:22 PM

And it will take more that the current crop of gutless wonders in the US Congress, too.

It's time to stop playing silly, stupid, name-calling games; time to stop dodging the hard actions, buckle down and get to work.

Time's a-wastin'. And as the guy said, "The first thing to do when you're in a hole is to stop digging."

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 03:30 PM

Good man yourself Rap!!

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 03:56 PM

On October 9, 2002, the Dow bottomed out just below 7300. As I write this it is below 9500, off from a high this time last year of over 14000. How the mighty have fallen! Will the Dow turn around before 7300?

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 03:59 PM

Guest from Sanity, get over yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:06 PM

The only thing we as individuals can do right now is pay attention, get informed, not go bonkers drawing money out of otherwise sound funds and conversely not going nuts hoarding, and elect a president who wasn't an engineer of the problem at hand (Reagan was the architect). The rest of the world will have to work it out on its own. I'm not a big spender, but I'm sure my pocketbook will be impacted by all of this.

Just what do GfS and Ake think they personally are going to do about this to fix things?












I thought so.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:22 PM

SRS...No one can do anything personally about this!
This requires action by a large section of the community, especially taxpayers.


Waiting for your "White Knight" to appear is not an option.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:32 PM

Electing a turd isn't an option either.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:36 PM

We're talking Wall Street "white knights" here, Ake, not fairy tales. In case you're confused. With the cash on hand in that bill last week, the govt. just got into the white knight business.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Janie
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:53 PM

You know, Susan, I'm trying to figure out if there might not be a few patches that get a combined 4 1/2 to 5 hours of light between the morning and the late afternoon sun. If so, I could do some container gardening of a few summer veggies that will straggle along with that little light. I know I can do a cool weather garden under coldframes after the leaves are off the trees. But no major food production is possible. If I'm out of work, or have my hours reduced due to the economy, I could participate in a community garden. Otherwise, I don't have time.

On the otherhand, I notice a large, sufficiently sunny lot across the street that belongs with one of the two houses that bracket it. I haven't met any of neighbors over there, but they clearly are not gardeners. If hard-times came, I could approach them about letting me garden there in exchange for produce (or even propose a neighborhood community garden!)

The biggest issue with my family is that we are scattered out. Mom and Dad have the biggest house that could accomodate us, but they live in West Virginia, where the economy has been in the pits a long time. As with Sinsull's family, my Mom's family consolidated households during the Depression. No one person usually could work more than a day or two per week, but among 6 adults working what they could, they scraped by. It would be pretty tough for Annie or I to find any part-time work there if we lost our jobs down here, or had our hours drastically cut.

But we are pretty resourceful people, and we would come up with some kind of plan and move that would see to it we were all taken care of.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 04:58 PM

Electing a "turd" IS an option....in fact it's the only option!

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 05:08 PM

Do you really, seriously think, that if the Dems were running the country this situation would not have occurred?

I think maybe it's you who is a little confused.
This little cracker won't be fixed by Party Politics.

Subject: RE: BS: If the Bottom DOES fall out
From: Bee
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 05:24 PM

Janie, if you figure out where the most sun hits during growing season, you may be able to do a little judicious pruning of tree branches to get yourself another hour or so of sun on your garden patches. I did that here, without destroying the tree or ruining its shape.