BS: The Debates: Members Only

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 02:20 AM

Well, I'm neither a Democrat nor a Republican (and I would probably have voted for McCain in 2000 had he gotten the nomination, but that was before he sold his soul to mammon), and if I have any criticism of Palin, it's because I think she would be a disaster as a vice president or as a president, and has nothing whatever to do with which party she represents.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:25 AM

My my, the "sisterhood" sure like to get the knife in! I expect this sort of stuff from the rabid Democrats...."Et tu Carol?"

Mrs Palin is a tactic, in exactly the same way as Mr Obama is a tactic, both Parties trying to mobilise what they see as their core support.

Sensible people, and there are quite a few on Mudcat should be united in anger over the disgracful robbery of $700 billion from the tax paying public, to finance the criminal cabal who will continue to prey on working people.

Notice how the Parties united to push through the bailout in the face of overwhelming opposition from the public.

Can you not see where their interests lie?......certainly not with the people they are supposed to represent!

This crisis should make it clear to everyone that our problems are created by Capitalism...which , whether we like it or not will always be unregulated, because Capitalism "regulates" itself.

If the left does not start fighting back, and now is a good time to start, we may well find we are too late.

The fact that intelligent people are still arguing about the status of two candidates, neither of whom have the ability or the will to bring in any sort of meaningful change, beggars belief...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:40 AM

By the way, the markets say..... "Thank you vey much for the gift mugs!!"....... and continue to fall another 150 points.

How much money are you going to have to "invest" in Capitalism before the penny drops?...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 03:55 AM

Sorry, but I stand by what I said about Palin. I have a right, as a voter, to assess the various candidates to determine who I will and will not vote for. My assessment of Palin is that she should not become either the vice president or the president. Other people may have different assessments, but that is mine, and I have a right to it. Palin has put herself before the voters and is asking for our approval. I get to decide whether or not I will give her mine.

On the subject of the bailout, the representative for my district in Congress voted against the bailout (twice). And I'm proud of him for doing so. I'll be voting for him again in November.

I don't approve of either McCain or Obama voting for the bailout. But I am probably going to give Obama an opportunity to show me what he will do as president. Once he is elected, if he is, my intention is to constantly hold his feet to the fire, and my hope is that everyone who votes for him will do the same.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:04 AM

Carol....Political change never evolves.
Please don't be taken in by the carnival.
We in the UK elected a "£abour" gvt expecting change and social justice....We got war and an even greater differential between rich and poor.

The election of a "left wing" Capitalist government makes the robbert and manipulation easier...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:15 AM

What I mean, Carol, is that to vote for the McCain/Palin ticket would be to endorse what amounts to a continuance of the past 8 years of the Bush legacy, and most people here are are dead against that, including me....and that's the main reason for attacking Sarah Palin...rather than her bangs or her high-pitched voice or whatever.

Whereas Doug's main reason for supporting her is that he would like to see a continuance of the Bush legacy... ;-) So he likes her and everthing she says sounds great to Doug.

Ake is right that Mrs Palin is simply a tactic...one designed to appeal to certain types of voters (small town and rural conservatives and older people and some women) while Mr Obama is a tactic designed to appeal to urban progressives and young people and those desirous of "change" and some minorities.

Both parties have opted to follow a certain tactical plan and that's why they have chosen certain individuals.

It's the old, classic divide between the natural conservative and liberal demographics.

The same thing happens in Canada. Young people and urban people and minorities and arts people tend to vote for the Liberals and the NDP and the Green Party. Older white office and blue collar people in rural areas and small towns tend to vote for the Conservatives.

The hilarious thing is that when the Conservatives get into office they economically shaft most of the little people who voted for them (with the exception of the upper income echelons) but it seems to go unnoticed by the poor sods who troop out dutifully election after election and vote for them...imagining they will get a "tax break".

That natural conservative base, however, only amounts to about 35% of the Canadian public, and if we only had 2 parties here, they'd probably never win an election. It's a much higher percentage than that in the USA.

I'll give you an example of how it works. They hold a mock election in my small town at the high schools when there's a national election, just to see what the students think. They just held one here in Orillia. The Conservative Party came in DEAD LAST among the high school students. They will, however, win this seat in the real election when the students' parents, the older folks in this town, go to the polls later this month, because that's what always happens in this small town riding. They could run a moose or a dog for the Conservatives and he'd still win in this town.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:15 AM

I haven't noticed revolutions creating any lasting change, either. At least not any change that doesn't eventually get co-opted by core elites at the expense of everyone else.

I'm putting my money on evolution this time. I may be wrong, but I have to follow my conscience, and that's what my conscience is telling me to do at this time.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:16 AM

Crossposted

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: quokka
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:29 AM

With regard to pronouncing Iraq and Iran as 'Eye-raq' and 'Eye-ran', the same thing is sometimes done to the word Italian, (Eye-talian) and it is a put down. Imagine if anyone pronounced the citizens of Illinois that way, or referred to the Iroquois nation. When you apply the practice to these examples it sounds ridiculous. Maybe they honestly don't mean it that way, but it comes across badly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 04:42 AM

WE can't hold politician's 'feet to the fire' Carol, as once they're in, we have no way of removing them.
At least in the US you can impeach a President, but he/she needs to step so far over the line for that to happen, so they're there for the duration.
UK is worse in a way as the PM is at the head of a majority political party, all of whom have their noses in the trough. Once a PM's in they're in, as far as we the electorate are concerned.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:03 AM

Carol...I'm not advocating another American Revolution, but some action is required by the public to effect change.

When tough fighters like you start to put their faith in Capitalist govt I begin to despair!

Still think you look like a YOUNG Jane Fonda tho'....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 05:12 AM

LOL

;-)


I'm not putting my faith in capitalist government. I'm just probably going to vote for the person I think is most likely to help us move beyond what we are calling capitalism at this time. From my perspective I still see us moving beyond the form of capitalism we practice now to embrace something entirely new. But I see it growing out of the systems we have in place now. Look at Mozilla as opposed to Microsoft to get a sense of what I see emerging.

I don't agree, however, that in this country we can't hold their feet to the fire. They start campaigning for their second term right from the beginning of their first term.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 07:38 AM

Ake,

Well, I for one, am completely incensed over the $700B fleecing of the US Treasury... I wholeheartedly disagree with Obama on this one and it will take alot of the pleasure outta going to the polls and voting for him... However, I will hold my nose and do the deed...

But you are right about the US being ripe for revolution and I think that seeing Obama elected will allow alot of people who have been blinded by cynicism to see the possibilities needed for people to unite against thias corrupt system... Yeah, I know that is a stretch, a leap of faith, but that's what I feel is the next step toward the revolution...

But I don't see the revolution taking place in a conventional manner but one where "Southern Man" has been squeezed too the max and turns against the "Southern Strategy" and moves from just being pissed off that Stroker Ace got bumped out of the race in the last lap to militancy... A lot of very rich people have been using the South as their personal "playground"... They drive into the South with their $1M motor homes with toys in tow... Meanwhile, Southern Man is makin' $12 a hour, driving a 10 year old pickup truck or used SUV, owes more than he owns and feels as if he has been left behind... I have long predicted here that when Southern Man turns against Boss Hog that there will be nothing that Boss Hog will be able to do to get him back into the fold... When that occurs, the South will no longer be a safe haven for Boss Hog and his toys... That will be the beginning of the revolution because even today it is Southern Man who is the fiercest defender of Boss Hog... That is going to change!!!

Now back to the debates...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 08:08 AM

Joe Biden's feet are cold!

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 08:43 AM

And Sarah's mom wears Army boots!

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:13 AM

I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 11:27 AM

Oops. I must confess my ignorance and impaired memory. It wasn't Palin, but Biden, who said "Bosniacs." Second, it is the correct term:

"An earlier version of this column misspelled an ethnic term for Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina, and incorrectly claimed that Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. had made a mistake in using it. The correct spelling is Bosniak, not Bosniac, and Mr. Biden's usage was correct."


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/opinion/04blow.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 11:52 AM

The word Bosniac/bosniac draws a total blank when entered in the search facility of Chambers on line dictionary. I must admit it sounds wrong to me, never having heard the word before.
Might he be getting confused with Brainiac?

XG

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 12:03 PM

Well, I spelled it wrong, too. Bosniak.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 12:07 PM

Oh, you meant Bosniak! ;)

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 07:25 PM

Does that mean it's something to be removed? Wasn't that what the Serbians were doing?

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Alice
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 09:41 PM

The Palin Debate Flow Chart

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 09:54 PM

hee hee hee. That must have been leaked by an insider.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Riginslinger
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:10 PM

Actually, it was leaked by a jerk named Aden Nak

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: bobad
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:26 PM

Aden Nak is Kanneda spelled backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:45 PM

I like the flow chart.

One part was omitted though.

At the start it should say

Ask Senator Biden if you can call him "Joe ---->
Yes ----> can I Say "Say it ain't So Joe! Here ----> no ----> pee like a puppy in anticipation of that opportunity, THANK GOD I AM WEARING SPACE DIAPERS!!----- Yes! ---->whew! Finally!! Move on to "Thar ya! go again!" Try to sound as much as possible like Walt Disney's Goofy.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 10:54 PM

Blah blah debate blah. Two mainstreamy rich people reading speeches that they hope will appeal to mainstreamy middle-class people, occasionally interrupted by Gwen Ifill. Wink, mention dead wife, choke up on cue, wink, blow Israel, blather, wink, etc. I wonder if people would have been less impressed with the performances if even one of the "third party" VP candidates would have been allowed to participate...

But... I have enjoyed the Hell out of the supposed Bosniak "gaffe," or, rather, the reaction to it. I remember half-listening to the not-even-close-to-being-an-actual-debate, and being mildly impressed that Biden said it. Then, the fun began: Started with Cokie Roberts, and took off through the blogs. "Bosniacs?! Didn't they invade Romulus?! ROFLCOPTER!!!!!" The sheepish apologies (following snarky corrections) the next day have been the best part. Or, better, the non-apologies that say Biden's just a big pedantic nerd for using the term. Sadly, I wasted about an hour reading that shit... But I'd do it again! *sigh*

But seriously, how do people not know what a Bosniak is? Honest, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but... watched the news over the past twenty years or so? ;)

---Will

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: heric
Date: 04 Oct 08 - 11:58 PM

You make me want to be a better man, Rex.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 12:48 AM

I know, right? The best part is that I'm always around me, so I'm constantly inspiring myself with the staggering brilliance of my superior mind. And so I'm forever accruing even more awesomeness, which I then pass on to you, the consumer.

---Will

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 10:38 AM

LOL! You oughta start a public affairs show on TV, Lepus.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 12:06 PM

Fox network may be looking for someone.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:25 PM

In the news I heard in the 90's they were called Bosnians.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 02:53 PM

Still are over here, never heard the term Bosniak before I saw it here.

XG

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 03:43 PM

Hi guest...I think so...as long as you have a "tag".

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 06:05 AM

Kidding aside, I understand that not everyone would be familiar with the term Bosniak. Puzzled, perhaps. I mean, it was in the news. A lot. For decades. One of the biggest news stories of the past fifty years. But, no, I won't judge.

Anyways, yes, you guys have heard the term Bosnian, but Bosniak and Bosnian aren't the same thing. Bosnian is a nationality, what we call a citizen of Bosna i Hercegovina, regardless of their ethnicity. Bosniak is what we call those people often referred to as Bosnian Muslims. But they don't all live in Bosnia, and they aren't all Muslims, so... It's complicated.

---Will

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:41 PM

Refresh for Round Two of McCain and Obama...

McCain is desperate so this one oughtta be real interesting... I suspect that McCain wuill try branding Obama a traitor, a commie, a sex offender, a terrorist and juts about anything else that pops into McCain's demented little mind...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:58 PM

A traitor, a commie, a sex offender, a terrorist, and an elitist.

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: bobad
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 06:59 PM

"I suspect that McCain wuill try branding Obama a traitor, a commie, a sex offender, a terrorist and juts about anything else that pops into McCain's demented little mind..."

Worse than that he is labeling him as a, wait for it .....liberal ..... horrors.

It has always mystified me that in the US the word "liberal" is seen as pejorative whereas in most other progressive countries it has positive connotations.

From an online dictionary:

a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.

These are good things, no?


conservative

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:23 PM

I suspect McCain will brand Obama for exactly what he is!

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:39 PM

Nah. I don't think he's about to admit Obama's a better choice.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:41 PM

Good 'un, Jeri...

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 07:42 PM

Seriously, the whole 'terrorist' smear is ridiculous and would be even funnier if there weren't people dimwitted enough to believe it.

Good-ol'-boy stupid has become a whole lot more admirable in some circles that 'elitist' smart.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:29 PM

McCain's tie is too long.

Obama keeps droppin' his "g"s.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:35 PM

That's a very small audience.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:38 PM

I hate this format. It's only good for sound bytes and bumper sticker slogans.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:46 PM

Yes, and they raised expectations about it, too. I think I'll go walk the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Amos
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:46 PM

I had to turn it off; McCain is a walking slimebomb and speaks in forked tongues.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Beer
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:48 PM

Mudcat is more exciting.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:57 PM

McCain doesn't look like he's doing so good. He's stilted, nervous and repetitive. He's inserting some fairly nonsequiturial points from the script ('gotta shove that in somewhere'). Obama just looks like Obama and is managing to point out the attempted twisting of his policies by McCain. I've noticed no such twisting by Obama.

McCain is trying too hard, and I wouldn't be surprised if he lost even more percentage points after this. I probably won't sit through the whole thing either. McCain is losing the plot ('hair transplants'?!) and Obama is patient and presidential.

Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only
From: bobad
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 10:32 PM

McCain looks very weak to me.