BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....

Subject: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:57 PM

Well, it's 3 minutes before Obama's "30 Minutes" show... I'm going to go watch it now but...

...for those of you who do watch it, how do you think he did???

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:02 PM

He's the smoothest bullshitter running, by a long shot..elect him!!

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:48 PM

How come you graded him before you heard it, GfS???

Nevermind...

I thought that it showed that he can "manange" with him coming in at the end live and without missing a beat... That shows the ability to run the show... Being a good ptresident has a lot about having the discipline and skills to run the show...

He did very well tonight...

That cannot be argued...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:54 PM

I thought it was very effective. Some of the segues didn't make sense to me, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 09:09 PM

It'll be interesting to see.   

But the idea of an election in which parties can buy time on TV, adverts or even whole programmes like this, is pretty strange. I'm very glad we don't have anything like that in my country, just a handful of Party Political Broadcasts equally allocated.

And I think the circumstances in which the Democrats had the money to win out in this kind of buying-up of air-time are so bizarre that I don't think they'd be wise to see the present system as something to preserve.

I don't imagine your TV companies would like having all that nice revenue taken away from them. But they'd have to accept it, if both sides got together and changed the rules. And right after the election would be the best time to do that. Wait too long and the Republicans will get back their confidence in their own ability to raise more money next time.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 09:13 PM

Just as good as any infomercial I have seen.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: GUEST,This machine kills fascists
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 09:19 PM

If he remembered to pull the rig out of his arm before the cameras clicked on, I'd give him a B+. If he actually argues (it's a monologue, isn't it? A speech from a podium and all that?), so if he actually argues with himself, I'd have to give him an F (but an A for the drugs).

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:39 PM

He did what he wanted to do...remind people of earlier remarks, tell them he understands what they are feeling, and reassuring them that he will do what's necessary.

What more could he do in 30 minutes? You can't conduct a dull, 4 hour policy discussion or refute all the nasty accusations ....so just leave folks with good images and feelings of trust.

He did that well...it was not a lot different than other interviews or paid spots...just better organized and linked.

....................................................................

And....even though I want him to win, and hope this HELPS him win, I also hope we DO get election reform from top to bottom - in not only financing laws, but also in the primary elections and down to choosing nominees to be IN elections. I do NOT like 2 years out of every 4 being awash in political campaigns.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:56 PM

It's about to air out here. Will advise.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:03 PM

I agree that we need election reform. Maybe this election will inspire the Republicans to get behind it (real election reform rather than token reform or reform in name only).

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:09 PM

I missed it--I thought it would start later. I suppose it's on You-tube or someplace? Maybe the Obama site?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:59 PM

Here's the first seven minutes with subsequent bits on youtube.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:15 AM

thank you Kat -- I was at work and my daughter called to see if we were watching......I called home and had my husband tape it but we missed the first ten mins so this is great. I thought he spoke amazingly well and generated a sense of calm and capability that was totally reassuring..............an excellent performance

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:48 AM

And under other stuff from that poster is the rest of the program -- in 4 parts, total.

~ Becky in Tucson
whose cable DVR did not record it properly!

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:02 AM

Thank you -- you are correct.! What a performance.....he was magnificent.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:03 AM

The guy is terrific. A B+.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:38 AM

Amos -- so generous?!

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: GUEST,SOL
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:06 AM

What an arrogant jack ass. Where is the hell is his money coming from? Who in the hell is buying the presidency of this nation? Who is pulling the string on this guy? How much money Obama got from the Middle East?   Obama wants to introduce Carl Marx ideas and give us socialism. Kiss good bye to the Supreme Court, Federal Court under the Marxist Obama. The country will go to hell for years to come.
Why in the hell I'll be spending my time listening "BO" bs and more of his crap. Only ignorant and the so called intellect elites listen to that clown.   Why should I give rating to the piece of crap liberal Obama's media.

Almost $700 Million dollars in campaign contributions. Are you F...?? This is sick.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: eddie1
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:17 AM

I've just watched the first two clips. If this man can walk the walk as well as he can talk the talk, he'll make a great president.
I'm from the UK but I returned three days ago from three weeks in West Tennessee and talking with friends over there made me grateful for a health service that, with all it's faults, does not drive me into bankruptcy, for an educational system that allowed my daughter to get the best education that she was able to handle.
I'm not in any way trying to say the UK is better than the US, just that we have a different way of looking at things.
I spent some time talking with homeless people in Memphis and realised what a struggle they have just to exist.
If Obama really does mean what he says, he will make a difference.
I don't think I have the right to give his broadcast a grading. I only hope the US gets the man they need.

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:46 AM

SOL,..Beats me!...to answer your question. I think he is a fraud front man, with a 'gift of gab', for the simple minded.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:51 AM

I was at choir practice and missed it. Can anybody give me a link to the entire program?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:50 AM

Try this one, Joe.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:21 AM

This time around, probably for the first time ever, most of the money Obama has been using for his campaign has come from millions of voters, mostly in small amounts. Which makes his candidacy a very democratic one compared to most.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 09:31 AM

"I think he is a fraud front man, with a 'gift of gab', for the simple minded"

This comment is more than insulting to more than 50% of Americans and me as a Canadian. Are you calling me simple minded? The biggest fraud in a U.S. administration ever was going to war in Iraq on the pretext of them having WMD without a shred of reliable evidence, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands and also thousands of troops sent to battle. The lies that were conceived in order to pull of this agenda to me are unforgivable! The entire Republican admistration should be put on trial in a criminal court! Why almost 50% on U.S. citizens don't see this is beyond me. Obama is U.S.'s real hope that in time many things will get better, including respectability in the rest of the world. Time to get those creeps out of Washington!

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:21 AM

Sol:

I suspect you have been highly stirred up by false information. Your reaction certainyl seems inconsistent with the facts of the case.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:36 AM

Those two (Sol and Guest from Insanity) don't care to discuss facts or issues. They're dogma-driven Luddites who are out there flogging their party's line. Ignore them, they offer no useful contribution to this discussion.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:43 AM

"I think he is a fraud front man, with a 'gift of gab', for the simple minded."

I suppose a person could come to that conclusion about any politician, depending upon one's own beliefs. Myself, I think it describes GWBush much more closely than it does Obama, and quite exactly decribes neoconservative idol Ronald Reagan.

But hey, that's just my opinion.

At any rate, it cetainly looks like we'll all get a chance to see how well Obama will actually be able to live up to his promise, barring widespread voting machine fraud.

He will be severely handicapped by the shamefully screwed-up situation he'll be inheriting, and therefore should be "graded on a curve" for any kind of just and fair assessment. That said, I'm fairly confident that the US will soon be starting out on a long hard struggle to make some very necessary adaptations to 21st-century reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:54 AM

There was not a single up close personal interview of any of the unemployed brokers from Bear Sterns and Lehman Bros.
Times are hard for these poor unfortunate souls too.

The RNC wants to REMIND YOU

Daylight savings time is Nov. 3rd, SO TURN THE DATE BACK ONE DAY !

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:56 AM

LOL!!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 11:47 AM

"But, except for the theater of the live finish from Florida, this was not Obama the inspirational orator.

Rather, the Obama who came into the homes of tens of millions of Americans less than a week before election day was a calm, reassuring, dare-we-say presidential figure speaking from a room that looked vaguely like the Oval Office.

He was self-deprecating -- "I will not be a perfect president."

He was self-referencing -- "I know what it's like to see a loved one suffer, not just because they are sick, but because of a broken health care system."

But he was, most of all, a candidate who wanted the people who are about to decide his political fate to know that he understands that there is really just one issue in the waning days of the 2008 campaign: an economy that is now officially in crisis but that long ago stopped working for millions of working Americans.

This was a commercial, to be sure.

But it was, as well, a statement. And Barack Obama's determination to make it the closing message of this long campaign will go a long way toward reassuring uncertain voters about the president he intends to be.

Most commercials aren't worth the thirty seconds it takes to watch them.

Obama's commercial is a thirty minute slice of an American story that was crying out to be told... and that Barack Obama heard.

" (From a longer essay in The Nation).

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:12 PM

It was also good to see that he did not stoop to spending the time knocking McCain. Obama got his message out and did it brilliantly. Now the conservatives can spend their time making up crap. I love Sol's "chicken little" post about the socialists moving in. The sad thing is, there are morons that believe that crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:09 PM

Stilly, GfS does not back either party or either candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

That piano in the background to indicate what was the intended mood of the moment was a bit creepy. But I imagine it must work with an American audience. (They do it on all those programmes about animal rescues and so forth, after all.)

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:38 PM

Certainly more convincing than Joe the Plumber. Or Sarah the Moose Hunter, for that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: astro
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:41 PM

I did like it that he didn't waste time belittling the GOP line of attack...it is astounding to me the continual attack line of Middle East connections to Obama...when there has not been any proof of that. It is the GOP fear tactics at play again. Anything to win even if it is not the truth.

I wonder why in these postings where Obama is attacked that they only discuss unproven allegations versus anything of substance. It really says that the Grand Ol' Party is completely denuded of any real substance along with many of their supporters, at least those here who represent the GOP views. These people must be real fun to be around...

I really do enjoy discussions with thoughtful conservatives (along with those with liberal leanings) who have reasoned out their views. They actually have reasons for their views even if I disagree with them. At the end of the day I can have a drink with them unlike the ones here who only spew hate.

Astro who is primarily an independent, but hopefully a thoughtful one.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:11 PM

We Canadians are going through some serious Obama-envy these days, because we don't have a single politician up here who is even 1 tenth as appealing and interesting as Obama. If he were running in Canada against John McCain, he'd win by the biggest landslide ever seen in history.

Mind you, the Republicans are dead meat up here after the last eight years of watching Bush & Co. Any Democrat would beat them easily if Canada voted.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:34 PM

I'm not too sure that GfS isn't a closet McCain-ite, LH... Lotta folks sayin' some wierd stuff tryin' to cover up what they really feel...

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: DougR
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:30 PM

L.H.: I would be delighted were Obama elect to move to Canada if he loses to McCain! Has Canada ever had a African-American Prime Minister? If not, he might be interested.
(Mick, kat, whoever, before you have a coniption, that is not a racist statement.)
DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:40 PM

Canada doesn't have as many African citizens because they didn't spend a couple hundred years keeping them as slaves. And if you are used to mostly warmer weather, you wouldn't go out of your way to move to Canada.

Still, I'd imagine Canada might give a black candidate as fair a treatment as they get here....

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:42 PM

I don't give a damn what "race" the Canadian Prime Minister is identified as, Doug, it's completely irrelevant.

However, given the nature of human beings everywhere (who are creatures of habit and familiarity)...it's quite unlikely that Canada will have a "Black" Prime Minister any time soon...no, the typical candidate would be a white man with conventionally short hair, dressed in a suit. Just maybe a white woman (slight chance).

But.......if Barack Obama were to come here and run for that office right now, I think he would get elected, matter of fact! He'd win by a landslide. He's that popular. And it's definitely not because of anything to do with his skin color. It's because of his intelligence, comportment, and generally positive attitude. It's because he's not a Republican. And it's because he doesn't act like someone who will take the world into another war after he's elected.

Obama is half White too, Doug. What race does that make him? I'll tell you what race he is in: he's in the human race.

Barack Obama is NOT running so that a "Black man can be president". That's not what it's about. He's running so that he, an individual, can be president, same as with any White person who runs for president. It has NOTHING to do with race except in the eyes of people who cannot see beyond race for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 08:37 PM

I was favorably impressed with how much of this program was about how I and my neighbors are faring in a country hard hit by eight years of Bush Administration plundering and mismanagement. There were also some details about the candidate's life and experience as well but more about us and what our choice could be.

Very little time was spent on the mean-spirited McCain attack ads, and that was a good choice as well in my opinion. Obama is not a socialist, not a Moslem, not a terrorist, and is a citizen of the United States and the attempts to suggest otherwise is the standard Republican National Committee smear campaign; may they go down in flames. And may more moderate Republicans allay themselves with the Obama Administration.

McCain should be credited for choosing to run a President Campaign funded with our tax dollars. Obama should be credited for organizing a fund-raising drive that has millions of contributions from small contributors like me, and which has raised three times(?) as much as any previous campaign. Whining from the Republicans doesn't make Obama's accomplishment any less impressive.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 01:58 AM

ok, i heard it(turned it off the first time)

I think he could muster up more support, (even mine), if he'd get off the rhetoric, address certain important issues, and would clarify, HONESTLY, certain things along his past.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 07:53 AM

Like what, GfS??? The right winged smear lies??? Why would he even want to be pulled that far down??? No, let me rephrase that... Why would the American people want to be pulled that far down??? Ain't they got enough crap to worry about without having to deal with juvenilistic name calling??? One name callin' candidate is enough and John McCain is doing just fine in that role...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 08:33 AM

Folks, there is no point in arguing with knuckle draggers. They are not interested in the truth, only in whatever makes a democrat look bad, and man, has the RNC done a job of feeding them the kind of shit they enjoy most!

Imagine a guy standing up there in public and offering hope for a better future? Who does he think he is, JFK? It seems to me that pledging a tax cut for the middle class is pretty specific. Getting our people out of that quagmire that Bush 2 created is another. What more do you want?

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: quokka
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 09:16 AM

Looked great from here...not that I've a vested interest, being halfway cross the world. Still, I am interested in politics and have followed the US election from the start. I hope he does well. You guys certainly need someone of principle. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 08:43 AM

I'm sure it was a good program. I've read some good reviews.

But though I didn't see it--I was at rehearsal at the Kennedy Center--I wish he had spent the money other ways.

At this point, it's all about turnout--actually it always was, as I noted months ago. You want your supporters to turn out and to suppress the turnout of your opponent.

I wish he had just rented buses in Virginia, Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Iowa, Indiana and of course Pennsylvania--to bus college kids and others who might not have cars to the polls.

And I wish he had made one more ad, which it looks like he will not.   This one would quote the McCain and Palin advisors sniping at each other's candidate-- and Palin criticizing the McCain campaign--especially the quote about Palin being a diva, and not taking instruction from anyone, being out for herself, etc.

Tag line: something along the lines of:   If they can't get along with each other, how can they hope to govern a country? It's time for real leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 08:47 AM

The ad would both appeal to independents and undecideds by questioning McCain's leadership skills--could even mention his amazing flip-flopping on the "bailout" issue--and it would be geared to depress his supporters, by showing dissension at the top.

Yes, it would be "negative".   But if you stick to the absolute truth, with exact quotes, it should be acceptable.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 08:48 AM

Maybe also a few buses in NM and NC.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 08:47 PM

"Yes, it would be "negative".   But if you stick to the absolute truth, with exact quotes, it should be acceptable."


                   The only question remaining to be answered is, how would Obama ever be able to recognize the truth?

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Ron Davies
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:09 AM

No, actually the question is completely different. The real question is: will Riginslimer ever get out of the gutter? Unfortunately it doesn't look likely in the near future. Perhaps it's since he's so at home there.

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Amos
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 09:55 AM

Riginslimer:

I think that might have been a new low for you.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Sawzaw
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:10 AM

Obama Endorsee gets 4 months in the slammer

Change we need

(CNN) -- Calling him "arrogant and defiant," a Wayne County Circuit Judge on Tuesday sentenced former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick to four months in jail with no early release under the terms of a plea deal.

Kilpatrick pleaded guilty last month to two felony obstruction of justice charges stemming from his efforts to cover up an extramarital affair. He also pleaded no contest to charges of assaulting a police officer attempting to serve a subpoena on a Kilpatrick friend in that case. In imposing the sentence, Judge David Groner harshly criticized Kilpatrick for his conduct, particularly for a televised speech that aired hours after he entered his pleas.

"That night, the community expected to hear a message of humility, remorse and apology," Groner said. "Instead, we heard an arrogant and defiant man who accused the governor, among others, for his downfall."
While a presentencing report submitted to the court said Kilpatrick accepts responsibility for his actions, Groner said he questioned the former mayor's sincerity.

"Many defendants have stood before this court. However, this case is different, and you are not the typical defendant," the judge said. "... You were expected to lead from the front and set an example."

Kilpatrick was accused of blocking a criminal investigation into his office and firing a police deputy to cover up an affair with his then-chief of staff, Christine Beatty. When that deputy, Gary Brown, filed a whistle-blower suit last summer, Kilpatrick and Beatty denied under oath that an affair had taken place.

Groner noted that after a jury found in Brown's favor, Kilpatrick publicly vowed to appeal, only to do a "180-degree" turn after he found out the plaintiffs were in possession of text messages that gave evidence of the affair. Brown then urged the City Council to approve settlements, which cost the city $8.4 million -- closer to $9 million after legal costs.

In January, the Detroit Free Press revealed the text messages that contradicted Kilpatrick's and Beatty's testimony. After the text messages were made public, Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy charged Kilpatrick and Beatty with multiple counts of perjury, obstruction of justice and misconduct in office. The most serious charges would have carried a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison upon conviction.

Beatty resigned her post after the text messages were made public, but the case against her remains pending, Worthy said. The Free Press reported Beatty has rejected several plea deal offers, the last of which would have required her to serve 150 days in jail. Worthy told reporters after Kilpatrick's hearing that she was satisfied with the result, but could not comment extensively on Kilpatrick's case. "We have another defendant to try," she said. "I don't want to step over that line."

Kilpatrick must also pay the city of Detroit $1 million in restitution, Groner ordered, and forfeit any future pension.....

More

Subject: RE: BS: Grade Obama's Closing Argument....
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Nov 08 - 10:15 AM

I am sure you will look up those folks that went to jail that were associated with McCain? How about his wife? No, .... wait .... they weren't black.