2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 09:43 AM

JIm Moray: I hope you aren't including me in your appraisal of the character of Mudcatters. I'm not in anybody's gang - I've actually been mauled on here a few times myself - and I'm not 'kicking' anybody. I have tried to express my opinions here fairly (go back and read them), and I repeat - yet again - I have nothing against the music in question, or its performance. I will try to hear the MH programme on iPlayer, as I won't really get the chance to hear it tonight.
I have said all this before, and am not being nasty to anybody.

Diane: You seem to think no-one has a right to express an opinion on anyone's music until they have listened to all of it at least six times, and have bought the CD, the T shirt, the tea towel, the signed poster and the colouring-in book. I want you to read this VERY CAREFULLY: I have listened to a lot of folk music, of all shades, over the last half-century, and have been playing it myself in public for forty years, during which time I have sung, played, and danced, solo and with groups, ceilidh bands and dance teams. I have done clubs, concerts, the odd festival, radio and TV, summer season work et bloody cetera. Without wishing to appear arrogant, I venture to suggest that, by now, I should have a pretty fair idea whether or not I am listening to folk music. My opinions stated above are NOT about whether or not these young people are any good, but about what style of music they are playing. Perhaps you would be so good as to take a moment to go back and read my comments again, this time with a view to thinking about what I have said, rather than pointing out with glee that I don't know the difference between The Young Folk AWARD and The Folk AWARDS.
John Kelly.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:46 AM

say what you want about Michael Parkinson - if you send him six quid a month til you're dead, you get a free biro.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: matt milton
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:35 AM

one thing that constantly surprises me about *young people these days* is how conservative they all sound. The truism used to be that people mellowed and grew more reactionary as they got older. We live in strange days, where it seems like The Kids gravitate to a middle-of-the-road easy listening default.

To be brutally honest, I think it is totally understandable why some people thing folk is a joke, when they are presented with acts like these flagged up as the best of a generation. If there were a BBC Young Grime MC of the Year award, or a Young Techno Act of the Year, or a Young Experimental Noise Act of the Year, you would hear a degree of attitude and imagination and flair that would put these acts to shame.

I know people always moan about these sort of award ceremonies. But, really, the music of the winners is genuinely awful. Michael Parkinson territory.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:10 AM

'Unless, of course, you are possessed of a big mouth, a headful of prejudice and fond of mindless scribbling on Mudcat.'

talk about people in glass houses.....

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 08:05 AM

"You don't have to be "lucky" to go to the YFA"

Just across town for you Diane....a 400 mile round trip for me, full time job, babysitters required.....need I go on. I would have to be lucky to get a "pass out" to be there.

Is the sample that you refer to still available? I will gladly take a listen.

"Unless, of course, you are possessed of a big mouth, a headful of prejudice and fond of mindless scribbling on Mudcat."

.......Thanks Diane, that's really helpful and has improved my day no end.

Paul

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Jim Moray
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:58 AM

WLD, I have no connection with the BBC - I speak only for myself. If there is a secret handshake to be part of their crowd then nobody ever showed me. If you want to think of the BBC as an enemy then don't lump me in with them too.

"I look forward to hearing lots more of the music they all make, whatever direction it takes."

.....and that really is the only question

yep.

I think highlights from the final are broadcast tonight at 7pm for those that didn't get to be there. It was a great night from start to finish so I hope it translates well to radio.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:52 AM

You don't have to be "lucky" to go to the YFA. Anybody can, I usually do (8/10 over the past decade) and you don't even have to buy a ticket. Failing that, you can hear samples of the finalists on 'tInternet beforehand then broadcast on the MH show afterwards.

Only after you have done all these (and preferably more, like seeing the acts at a gig) are you qualified, and entitled, to make a personal judgment. Unless, of course, you are possessed of a big mouth, a headful of prejudice and fond of mindless scribbling on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:42 AM

Paul - anything you say will be taken down and used as evidence of your vitriolic and abusive character.....

You never actually wanted your musicto be on a BBC folk programme, did you?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Banjiman
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:34 AM

Jim Moray said:

"I look forward to hearing lots more of the music they all make, whatever direction it takes."

.....and that really is the only question. They are undoubtedly very talented, Megan has a stunning voice. BUT the only music we have access to from them really isn't all that "folky" . I wasn't lucky enough to be at the awards so I look forward to hearing something from them that represents more accurately their performance.

This is an important award.... I hope it sets the winners on the road to success......within the folk genre (and I ain't no traditionalist). It would be disappointing for those young people who are working within the genre (and encouraging others to do so) if the winners take off in a completely different direction.

I hope this is not seen as a vitriolic comment....... it is not meant to be.

Paul

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:22 AM

'there is a nasty hive mind that seems to have developed recently towards anyone who isn't part of the gang.'

pretty rich - when you consider how exclusive of everyone outside of dull middle class Radio 4 conformity the BBC is!

Music for the ISA's crowd. Don't miss Moneybox!

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Jim Moray
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:15 AM

No, this isn't about having my judgment second guessed. It's about crushing young people before they have had a chance to do anything. All I'm asking is that you reserve judgment (good or bad) till you've heard the act in question, which most people on this thread emphatically haven't - how anyone could find fault in that is beyond me. Whether it is or isn't folk is another issue but, again, how can you make that call without having heard the music?

I understand that Mudcat isn't an entity but a messageboard, but there is a nasty hive mind that seems to have developed recently towards anyone who isn't part of the gang. Reading it back, I retract the wording of my earlier post, but not the sense of unease. I wasn't intending to offend anyone, but I don't like seeing performers who are still legally children cut down simply for doing something positive.

Congratulations to all the competitors and particularly Megan and Joe. I look forward to hearing lots more of the music they all make, whatever direction it takes.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,No Fixed Abode
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:13 AM

Sorry we are the guest above

Tony and Una

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 07:12 AM

Dave
          Sorry but you are so far wrong about Jack Hudson it must be embarrassing for you. Guess your opinion is based on seeing him 30 years ago…………. Even murderers receive a shorter sentence than Jack Hudson has been given. Jack WRITES great songs….yes WRITES songs, good enough for Jack to be asked by BBC Scotland to perform at Celtic connections (one of the most prestigious music festivals in the UK) last Feb….still I am sure you knew that Dave. Sadly unlike some Jack keeps a dignified silence about his achievements. The reason you see little of Jack and ourselves here on mudcat and in folk clubs is because we both work at taking our music to a new audience. Jack and ourselves are doing a gig on the 29th of this month not in a folk club but in an old mill. We have sold 70 tickets so far and expect to reach the venues capacity around 100 This is by word of mouth..and yes we guess half the audience will be from folk clubs but half will be just people who like good music.   …..but please don't tell anyone……………..we would not like to upset people who are clearly trying to keep folk music a pure breed.

Tony and Una

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:56 AM

well the thing about Mudcat - unlike the BBC - it is democratic and its us that decide what the thread is about. And frankly its pussyfooting around and letting the warm glow of entirely unwarranted self satisfaction suffuse BBC's take on folk music that has got us in the merde in the first place.

For the information of the ill informed.

Jack Hudson is from the Derbyshire and has spent (god help him) his entire career within the English folk club movement. he draws his inspiration from American singer songwriters, but he mainly writes about his own rather strange life.

You may find him less than engaging, but he is prodigiously talented and more so than any thing any folk radio programme will be playing last week, this week or the week after.

Both Jack and Una Walsh (of No Fixed Abode) are possessed of voices that stop audiences in their tracks. The continued ignoring of both talents by the BBC is an act of sustained nastiness that has been allowed to go on too long. Nothing you could read on mudcat could hope to come near it in the nastiness stakes.

I am right about John Kelly.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:46 AM

>All the same, I don't see how an artist can be ready to be raved about but not ready to be criticised.

>If you don't want to be judged by your Myspace page, then what the hell is it there for?

>But don't say Mudcat is sickening because one or two excessively angry people write here. Mudcat is not an entity with a mind, it's a board you stick notices on.

>Most of the discussion on this thread is perfectly even tempered.

Pip & Greg & HH have beaten me to it. It's not Mudcat, it's the internet - being able to say anything you want to, publicly and immediately (sometimes too immediately). And folks all over the world can do this anonymously, any time they want to. This is a pretty new phenomenon in communication, and the dust is still settling (if it ever does, human nature being what it is). Don't blame the forum for the quirks of the medium. I hate to see one of the best non-mainstream music sites around dissed for factors that are common to all of them (at least those that allow any measure of freedom of speech).

It also always seems to involve selective reading - what about all the reasonable, mild-mannered posts? People have a right to like what they like, and to discuss their opinions freely without being scolded by Headmaster.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:24 AM

It's about the Young Folk Awards.

It ain't about John Kelly or Jack Hudson or the BBC and its policy on folk music.

Jack has been around a long time, plays mainly American music as far as I can tell - years since I have seen him. Not much on the web to judge him on recently as far as I can see.

John is an excellent singer - and I saw him recently - but to describe him as "probably the finest most original singer of traditional song in England" does put him on a very high pedestal and I am not sure that's exactly where he deserves to be. BUT you may be right.

You and I may differ on our opinions on the finest this that or other but that's an opinion on Mudcat.

In the end what will help artists more than anything else is whether promoters like musicians and singers and whether people who buy tickets for folk events will come and see them. Word soon gets about who sells tickets amongst people who buy tickets, and amongst promoters.

And no amount of mudcat opinions or folk awards will alter that.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:17 AM

Jim Moray: there have ben one or two vitriolic posts on this for sure, from the usual suspects. But don't say Mudcat is sickening because one or two excessively angry people write here. Mudcat is not an entity with a mind, it's a board you stick notices on. Most of the discussion on this thread is perfectly even tempered. Some people are saying some performers aren't folk performers. Fine, if that's their opinion. The word has many meanings to many people.I think Bach writes classical music. I don't think Hendrix plays clasical music. Those are not nasty or nice remarks. They are just my use of language. I happen to like Bach and Hendrix immensely.
Likewise people saying these young award winners are not folk is not a criticism.It's a classification.
I express no opinion, I haven't heard them yet. I look forward to it. Judging by people's favourable responses, I will enjoy them greatly. Whether they are folk, punk folk, psyche folk, acid folk, twisted folk, rap, hip hop, medieval plain song or George Formby covers..

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 06:10 AM

Give them time to develop before you judge. It's only fair.

Jim,

Thanks for commenting. I understand that you don't relish having your judgment second-guessed by a bunch of people who weren't there on the night. All the same, I don't see how an artist can be ready to be raved about but not ready to be criticised. In any case, I don't think anyone's said that Megan H. can't sing (they'd need their ears tested if they did). What people have said is that her material doesn't appear to be folk - and that's got nothing to do with how developed her career is.

As for John Kelly, no, he's not on MySpace - but if you haven't managed to see him in person or got hold of his excellent CD, you can hear a couple of songs here. If one of them doesn't knock your socks off, you must be barefoot.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:56 AM

John will probably send you a cd if you contact him.

heres a website I roughed out for him. I'm no great shakes on webdesign as you can see. He deserves better:-

http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/johnkellyharmoniumhero/index.html

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Jim Moray
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:43 AM

Also, I've just gone to listen to Jack Hudson and No Fixed Abode. Where can I hear John Kelly?

Thanks.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Jim Moray
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 05:39 AM

"I think Jim Moray who presented the award said something along the lines of "dragging folk into the future"

I said no such thing. It's one of my most hated phrases and I wouldn't inflict it on anyone.

I'm increasingly sickened by Mudcat which has turned from "highly opinionated but essentially fair" to downright nasty recently. You should be ashamed of yourselves - the broadcast of the finals hasn't even gone out yet, Megan and Joe haven't made an album or played any gigs yet and you're all willing to judge based only on hearsay and a myspace page containing a completely different set of songs in a different style. Say what you like about me, but please please stop kicking two very talented performers (one of whom is 15...) before they've had a chance to prove themselves.

Give them time to develop before you judge. It's only fair.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 04:55 AM

Its easy to see where Joh kelly's coming from.

You reckon these people will be playing loads of festivals. theres John (proabably the finest most original singer of traditional msong in England) and he won't. or if he is, he'll be hustling for a two song spot in the club tents - which doesn't give him a chance to show that he can play more instruments than I know the names of.

And dragging folk into the 20th century !   that's bloody rich coming from the Corporation that won't play jack hudson - because he's neither folk or country. Won't play No Fixed Abode because they're not folk. Half the time, they won't even publicise their gigs and the clubs that book them.

The thing is you could choose to be a member of one of these farty little groups of musicians that Mike harding and Mick Peat dutifully cream their jeans over. But you have to be born with voice and talent like Jack Hudson or Una walsh of No fixed Abode.

Basically what sickens, is an oligarchy of mediocrity.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,Someone who was there
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 07:06 PM

It was a great night and all the finalists were of a high calibre in there different ways. Tyde were energetic and tuneful. Lucy Ward sang a song of her own and then wowed the audience with a funny and spirited version of Mike Waterson's "Stich in Time". Maz O'Connor was haunting with her rendition of Cruel Mother. Emily Hoile and Alice Burn were technically superb and The Jaywalkers were interesting in their choice of songs but I agree with an earlier contributer (Folknascious)that the fake American accent let them down a tad. However I can't agree with the same contributer that Maz and Lucy "showed their immaturity", listen to Mike Harding tomorrow and I'm sure you'll be able to make up your own minds. As for Megan and Joe Henwood they performed their songs competently, it is always difficult judging the quality of original songs on first hearing however Megan is without a doubt a fine singer songwriter and she has an interesting voice.

At the interval judging by the talk over drinks the favourites seemed to be Maz O'Connor and Lucy Ward with Tyde also in the running.

However it seemed on the night that the award was given for contempory song writing, not performance and certainly not folk.

I think Jim Moray who presented the award said something along the lines of "dragging folk into the future" As we left some people expressed their surprise at the outcome, but as it had been a good night's entertainment, and free at that, most people left happy.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:16 PM

oh yes and I think the judges are confused about folk and "folk" which my twenty something daughters listen to, the likes of Laura Marling, Noah and the Whale, the Fleet Foxes etc, which seems to be twee indie music with acoustic guitars and some non-pop instruments. Well, it's not folk as we know it, and you can't fool all of the people all of the time, as they will vote with their feet. I guess the Henwoods will get a slot at Cambridge, but that's about it. I well remember a gig by the said Mr Moray at Ross on Wye just when Sweet England had got a folk award, and I think he decided that he didn't want to be in the folk backwaters. Half of the audience walked out, and it took him a long time to recover. Don't get me wrong, I love Low Culture, but lots of people never forgave him, and he was at the bottom of a quite bad bill in the Bedford at Sidmouth this summer. All in all, I don't believe the Henwoods have a future in folk, let's get back to traditional music, lyrics and accents, interpreted in a fresh way; Bellowhead seem to have succeeded very well doing this

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,Cotswold Maid
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 01:58 PM

Just had a listen to Lavender Man on My Space. With a bit of scrubbing up, I suppose it could be called folk. But what I object to majorly, is the fake rubbish American accent. What's that about? You're English aren't you? Well start singing in your own accent then. Can't imagine anyone is going to bother seeing them at festivals this summer, too many other good acts young and old to see

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 12:49 PM

well, now you've all had a moan here's a link to the piccies...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/galenadivaneleven/3095723864/

---

Please remember to use a consistent name when you post. Messages with the "from" space blank, risk being deleted. "Guest,guest" is not an acceptable poster name.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 10:05 AM

One small note of minor correction to Diane - there are no heats as such, recorded entries to semi-final stage as I understand it.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 10:00 AM

I have no objection to entrants or even winners not being traditional. But the term 'folk', as we've understood it for the last half-century, has included new music written within a traditional framework. When Bob Dylan emerged, it was evident that his music was following in the footsteps of Woody Guthrie and others, and the whole 50s/60s American 'contemporary folk' genre stemmed recognisably from Old Time/Appalachian/Blues roots. Similarly, the output of British writers such as Ewan MaColl (SP?) was within traditional parameters. A lot of the stuff I'm hearing these days isn't. As I said in my first post, I have a pretty broad definition of Folk Music. But I'm not hearing much these days that lies within that definition.
Referring back to Folknacious' jibe; I was young (early 20s) when I first sang in the folk clubs. And here's a shocker for you: I was a singer/songwriter. I could, however, even then, tell the difference between 'contemporary folk' and 'other stuff that isn't folk'.
None of this has anything to do with age - mine or anybody else's.
John Kelliosaur.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 09:26 AM

Most of the past winners I can remember off hand Lauren McColl; Jarlath Henderson; Kathryn Roberts; Uiscedwr; Tim Van Eyken; Last Orders; Bodega; Siobhan Miller and Jeanna Leslie were traditional.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 08:47 AM

Well, Mr Saur, I haven't listened to the MH prog for YEARS and nowadays rarely even bother to scan the playlists. I don't need to to be aware that the event under discussion is The Young Folk AWARD, an annual competition entirely unconnected to the Folk AWARDS, which are an industry event.

These are young people who, for several months, have competed through a series of heats to take part in a final in which their performance is judged against their peers. The act which comes out best ON THE NIGHT in terms of not only musical ability but also all-round stagecraft is the one that gets the award and opportunities for further exposure.

Many who have not won in the past have, nevertheless, come through anyway and have become established stalwarts of the circuit, of festivals and the recording world. One example was someone whose work I knew well who had the misfortune to have her instrument stolen only days before the final. Being a little unsure with an unfamiliar replacement quite possibly robbed her of the award, in exactly the same way in which a seasoned performer can also have an off night and fail to impress.

The YFA is thus but one route to success. It is not (and shouldn't be) a vehicle for anyone - whether judge or vocal punter - to promote their own particular fave or hobby horse. It is merely a test of who might be up-and-coming as well as a wonderful experience for all participants to share.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 08:28 AM

"Snerchy"? THat's hardly a traditional word is it?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 08:22 AM

I've just listened to the whole of the MySpace selection, and it still isn't folk music. I did notice, however, that the 'soul/acoustic/funk' line now reads 'acoustic/funk/folk'. Strange; it still sounds exactly the same to me. What has happened overnight that I'm missing?
And all right, Diane, I bow to your superior knowledge yet again. Mike Harding is ALWAYS on Wednesday, as the Young Folk Awards are ALWAYS in December, and tha Folk Awards Beano is ALWAYS in ...er.. whatever it was. You see; I don't really spend my time listening to/watching these things. Too busy learning/practicing/going out singing FOLK MUSIC. In fact, on the infrequent occasions that I have caught the Mike Harding programme, it ALWAYS seems to be about the Young Folk Awards.
Dino Saur.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,Working Radish
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:55 AM

What leaps out at me is that nowadays it's de rigueur not to get snerchy about original material - or, more to the point, about the complete absence of traditional material.

While I'm in disagree-with-WLD mode, I've never understood what's hard about singing in your own accent. It's not even a pop vs folk thing - the Beatles and David Bowie and the Smiths and New Order have sold squillions, without an American accent between them. Obviously some cover versions call for a fake accent, or you'd end up with
I say you chaps, if you knew Peggy Sue
They you'd jolly well know why I feel blue...
But if you're doing your own stuff, what's wrong with your own voice?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 06:23 AM

nothings changed except its nowadays de rigeur for the judges to get snerchy about a phoney American accent.

How many of your guest list would have stood up to that scrutiny - let alone some kid who's trying to get above the floorsinger level?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:39 AM

I tend to agree with Graham on this one. They may not even get booked at a load of festivals, (but I bet Maz O'Connor does).

She has always wowed any audience - including Cropredy.......

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,Graham Bradshaw
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 05:34 AM

Well, there are two questions here as I see it.

Should an act which is patently obviously NOT FOLK, be in, let alone winning the Folk Awards? No. In the same way as you wouldn't get a rap artist in the Country Music Awards, or Fred Jordan in X Factor.

Should artists who are outside the genre be trying to make a career in the Folk world? Don't see why not. It was always so. Barbara Dickson, Jasper Carrott, Mike Harding and countless others, started off in the folk clubs, and went on to greater things elsewhere.

I can remember back in the 60s when the folk scene was much more eclectic than it is now. My own club - Surbiton - was considered to be fairly 'traditional', but would feature bluegrass, country, jazz, blues as well as what we now refer to as trad and revivalist folk.

How about this for a sample guest list....
Stephane Grapelli with Diz Disley
Ken Colyer Jazzband
Bill Clifton
Julie Felix
Malcolm Price
Jesse Fuller
Jo-Ann Kelly
Sandy Denny
Pentangle
Dave & Toni Arthur
Isabel Sutherland
Stewarts of Blair

The flagship programme on the radio at the time was Country Meets Folk, hosted by Wally Whyton (a skiffler and pal of Pussy Cat Willum).

So, nothing much has changed in that department!! Not Mike's fault - he is working to a brief laid down by SmoothOps and ultimately the Beeb.

In the case of the winners of YFA, they will probably get booked at just about every folk festival next Summer and, if the audiences don't take to them, they will disappear without trace the following year, and go back to wherever it is that they DO belong.

In this case, the market WILL decide.

As an afterthought, I just showed a friend of mine who plays in a very good pop covers band the footage on the Shrewsbury Folk Festival website. Oysterband, Doonans, The Duhks, Demon Barbers, Bellowhead - he thought it was a Country Music festival and didn't think any of them were anything to do with folk!!

AS always, it is in the eye of the perceiver.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Dec 08 - 03:18 AM

To those who think "f*lk" is a terminally damaged and discredited term, you're right. So don't use it. I don't.

The YFA winners put on the best performance on the night. That's what the competition is supposed to be about and for the first time in years, the judges' decision reflected the general consensus. A bit different from walking off in disbelief when Jim Moray, Jackie Oates, Bella Hardy and Dave Delarre weren't declared "winners". Though that isn't what it's about either: "competitors" welcome the opportunity to spend time and play together, to absorb each other's styles and learn. What they are is open-minded, musically. You should try it.

Oh, and the MH show is transmitted on Wednesday @ 7.00 p.m. Has been for ages. Then it's on the iPlayer.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 07:47 PM

Wha' Happened.....?

That's a quote from 'A Mighty Wind'..... isn't it?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: GUEST,or it might be folk
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 07:42 PM

"Butterpotamus" and "Hippofly"

both certainly sound like they could
be folk groups on the UK festival circuit !!!


..anyone wanna grab these names while they're stil fresh hot available ???

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 06:50 PM

As usual, anybody ventures to say "it isn't folk" gets castigated for attacking the act. Yer what? It's not a criticism, it's a classification. A hippopotamus is not a butterfly. Is that some kind of snide remark?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 06:32 PM

Feels like 1974 -
Ghastly mellow saxophones all over the floor...
- Robyn Hitchcock

No, seriously. Very nice, very competent, good easy listening. Megan H has a fine voice, which probably sounds even better with less going on behind it.

But, if it's possible to say "this isn't folk", then I'm with John - this isn't folk.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 06:30 PM

Folknacious: I was young once; whether you care to believe it or not doesn't matter, nor does it answer the question. Oh - and I don't know what you've seen on t'internet to suggest the contrary, but I don't have a red face or bulging eyes. Perhaps your PC needs a service. And, in case my previous disclaimer sailed past one or two people, I have no objection to the music I heard on the MySpace page. But it isn't folk music, and somebody back there said they thought that Lavender Man was one of the songs performed on the show, so I went back and listened to it.
Diane: I know you've gone off in a huff (twice), and so won't see this, but I'm afraid I'm out performing on Thursday (folk dancing), but I'll try and get it on t'internet, just to be scrupulously fair. I repeat though, for those determined to misinterpret my intentions, that this is not about the undoubted talents of the young lady and her musicians; it's about the - admittedly 'alleged' at this stage -mis-use of the term 'folk'. ANd why am I getting so worked up about it? Well, because my passion, too, is for folk music, and I'm beginning to feel distinctly out of place on the British folk circuit.
John Kelly.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folknacious
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 06:05 PM

"why should I have to be young?"

Well it does rather sound like you never were. In fact it sounds like you have a handlebar moustache, a rather red face, bulging eyes and a very loud voice. But then I'm just judging you by something I found on the internet.

Exits stage left, clucking like a horse . . .

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:52 PM

Well, I've just listened to Lavender Man, and I can't see the link with folk music, apart from it having words and a tune. Incidentally, it states on the top of the page that the music is soul/acoustic/funk. Doesn't mention folk.
I'll tell you what pisses me off about these awards: it's the same as the Xfactor/Popstar etc stuff on the telly. The winners are selected from the entrants. "Bleedin' obvious", I hear you say. Point is, the candidates are self-selected. I'll never win Xfactor, 'cos I ain't putting my name forward. Whether I'd get anywhere doesn't even come into it. I could enter myself for next year's Young Folk Awards - on the same basis as the above suggestion about the Halle Orchestra. If it doesn't have to be folk music, then why should I have to be young? I'm asking this as a serious question.
John Kelly.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:47 PM

Well, I think it is actually on the Mike Harding Show on Wednesday.
I say this in the certain knowledge that "Folk On 2" ceased to exist over a decade ago.
I collapse in disbelief. What exactly is wrong with artists operating in a multiplicity of genres? (Please don't answer, I really don't want to hear).

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Mrs Banjiman
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:40 PM

Happy to give them a chance.......as I hope my posts above show.

They need to get that MySpace changed quickly though if they want to be taken seriously (in the folk world)....... that is not to knock them though!

Megan undoubtedly has a lovely voice, I look forward to hearing her sing something a bit folkier.

Paul

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folknacious
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:40 PM

"If you don't want to be judged by your Myspace page, then what the hell is it there for?"

Perhaps to promote another band they play in, in a different genre of music? Is that a bad thing? It wasn't them who posted the link here.

Why not reserve judgement until you've heard the Folk On 2 broadcast of the concert which I think is this Thursday?

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:40 PM

Yes, I'm quite sure you do, Dick, and I hope I'll be seeing you. But you're a bit to old for the YFA.
And I hope to see Megan and Joe at festivals too. Even if their anonymous backer is a tad lacking on the grammar front.

"there real passion? Ahem.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Folknacious
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:35 PM

"Megan and Joe love playing music from lots of genres but there real passion is in folk. They hope that people will give them a chance."

Their real passion was obvious and I'm sure it helped them get their win last Friday. I hope that people will give them a chance too, and also remember when posting knee-jerk knocking on here that just possibly these young people may be reading what you say. Don't sour their win for them before you've even given them a fair chance. Suggestions by people who weren't even there that they were a contrived entry are mean spirited and unjustified.

Megan and Joe, if you are reading (or GUEST above, who obviously know them, please pass this on) - congratulations, well done, and some of us will look forward to hearing more of what you can do at next year's festivals. Thank you.

Subject: RE: 2008 R2 Young Folk Award - What Happened
From: Harmonium Hero
Date: 08 Dec 08 - 05:34 PM

If you don't want to be judged by your Myspace page, then what the hell is it there for? Is this just me? You know - wooly mammoth thinking...
Regarding the above comment about imagining it stripped down... If it's fo;l music, I'd recognose it whatever the instrumentation. I'm just going to have a listen....
JK