BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!

Subject: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:37 PM

Anybody else got thoughts on those new flourescent coil lights that we're all being pressured to use in place of the old style incandescent light bulbs? I tried putting one of them in a ceiling fixture on a ceiling which has four lights spaced across. Tried the new thingie in one of those four positions when one of the old style bulbs had burn out.

Well, the light from it is so harsh and unpleasant in comparison that I could feel myself well on the way to a headache after only about 2 or 3 minutes of trying to work under the damn thing.

So I took it out and got an old incandescent bulb instead.

I do not like the light these little flourescents throw, not one bit. It bothers my eyes. Anyone else had similar problems?

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: bobad
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 06:51 PM

They come in cool or warm. The "cool white" ones are hard, much like fluorescent lighting in stores and offices but the warm ones are much like incandescent bulbs. I made the mistake, before knowing of this, of buying a bunch of the cool ones on sale and am trying to use them in places where I don't spend much time.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 07:13 PM

I'm not especially fond of compact fluorescents, because they emit a high pitched whine (though not as bad as regular fluorescents), and because I don't like the light. I also don't like the idea that they have mercury in them. What I do like is the idea of LED light bulbs, but I'm waiting for them to come down in price a little bit so I can experiment with them. $80 per bulb seems like a lot to spend on something that may or may not work well, even if it will last 20 years!

LED is a far superior technology - better for the earth in every respect.

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 07:40 PM

Get the ones that make golden yellow light

the harsh white blue are like fingernails on the visual cortex.

PS

I bought some colored red yellow green ultra violet and deep blue coil lights at Home Despot and they are GREAT! 10 times the color intensity of neon.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: john f weldon
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:29 PM

Pressured to use? They're gonna be the only legal ones soon. They take a cupla seconds to go on, and the blue ones make a horrible light but the "warm" ones aren't bright enough to read by, even at theoretical 100 watts.

I hate change!

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Amos
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:50 PM

Little Hawk

You may be highly sensitive to the frequency these lights put out, which is noisome to some sensitive eyes.

Look for LED-based alternate lights which are beginning to come out. They are also extremely low power but their light is much less irritating.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 08:55 PM

I like them. I hate the old tube fluorescent lights but I've adapted very well to these.    Since most light blubs go behind a lampshade it really makes little difference.

The mercury is miniscule in these new lights, probably more in the fish I had for dinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 09:13 PM

I have been hoarding incandescent bulbs since there has been talk of mandating those things. Every time there's a sale on them I pick up six or a half dozen 4-packs. I do try to get the ones that save energy: 95 v 100 watts & 70 v 75 watts.

The spiral bulbs take time to reach maximum light output. They do not show true color--my wife is an artist and complained when we tried them.

If they want to save energy or have cleaner energy, let them fire up some nuclear power plants.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 09:25 PM

"If they want to save energy or have cleaner energy, let them fire up some nuclear power plants. "

Screw that idea!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: BK Lick
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:48 PM

Ron writes:

The mercury is minuscule in these new lights, probably more in the fish I had for dinner.

Ermm.. consider this from the EPA: What to Do if a Fluorescent Light Bulb Breaks

—BK

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 10:52 PM

I've adapted quite well to the new bulbs...except for a few places where I REALLY need a dimmer. When they work out low-voltage dimmable ones, I will be happy! (I have a 3watt 'nightlight' of the CF type that IS dimable...I don't know why it works)

The CF bulbs do come in various 'colors' of light, and it may help to try them. I love the money saved...the bulb in a yard light has been going for about 4 years now!...and several other bulbs are at 2-3 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:29 PM

I'm with Bill......Love em. Weird in the garage where I have a couple mounted inside a flood lens.....got them at Lowes. The warm-up tales a bit but the light is fantastic, brighter, and much cheaper than hi-watt incandescants I had to use before.

And BK.....When I was a kid we used to get all the fluoro tubes we could find and throw them in the creek to use as BB gun targets. Hmmmm...My Mom always said those BB guns were dangerous............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:52 PM

I love the various clever ways they're starting to use the LED lights. They are very low power and they don't burn out, but you need to cluster some to get much output or find an interesting lens to spread the light.

I'm a sucker for gadgets and I have several LED lamps around the house. One tall one with a sculpted clear acrylic top and three color buttons so I can turn it any number of colors puts out a very nice glow in the room. Another is a small bright blue LED base that a clear glass globe, shaped like a paperweight but without a flat side, sits on the light and casts an interesting blue light on the ceiling along with a surreal glow through the bulb. And a few others like that. They're not the cheapest fixtures, but as we shift from incandescent to other types of lighting, they won't be as cheap. Goes with the territory.

Coast Lenser lights (and knives--go figure?)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Nancy King
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 11:56 PM

I've tried the CF bulbs a few times, and have yet to be convinced they're worthwhile. I have dimmers throughout most of my house, so they're no good for those. I put them in my laundry room, and they're OK, except that they take a while to reach full brightness. I switch the light on when I come in the room, and it still seems really dark. I can live with that in the laundry room, but it would drive me nuts elsewhere.

I've also tried them in my summer cottage in Maine, but the stupid things are too big to fit in the fixtures. Phooey!

I must say, however, that the incandescent bulbs seem to be burning out faster than ever. I'm forever putting in new ones. Double phooey!

Nancy

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:08 AM

They won't fit inside the 'covers' on the ceiling fans, shades and globes won't go over them, I hate them! I can't 'hear' them, of course, but I don't like the light either.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:23 AM

Ermm.. BK, did you read the link you gave us - completely?   

The amount of mercury contained in most CF lighs is less than 4 milligrams - about the size of the tip of a pen. (Some manufacturers have reduced even further) Compare it to an old thermometer which had about 500 milligrams.

As for the EPA hazardous waste type cleanup - good ideas. I'm betting most of us broke a large tube fluorescent bulb and probably wiped it up with a mob and thought nothing of it (and somehow survived!!) No one is denying that there is mercury in these bulbs, but the risk is very small - and everyone should recycle as described.

As for the size, just look around - they are now coming in much smaller sizes that will fit in fans, shades and globes without problem.

I do think that LED's are the future, if they can perfect them and make it marketable. CF's are an intermediate step - and I think they are worth embracing.

Reminds me of the joke, I remember Suzanne Vega used to tell it - how many folkies does it take to change a lightbulb?   10 - one to actually make the change and 9 to sit around and talk about how much better the old lightbulb was.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: open mike
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:41 AM

or bluegrass musicians....1 to change the bulb and 9 to complain that it does not work "unplugged". (or that it requires electricity)

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Genie
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 01:49 AM

I look forward to LED lights too, but I'm pretty happy with my CFLs.   Some of them are full-spectrum "Daylight" bulbs, and I find them pretty easy on the eyes. I don't notice a whine from any of them.
I have a couple of reading lamps that are very bright and supposedly full spectrum and my eyes tire much less easily when I use them than when I use incandescents with comparable light output.    I got one of those for my then-85-year-old mom, who used to read all day by an incandescent lamp, and she loved the new one and swears by it; her eyesight seems to have benefitted a lot from it. (These lamps don't use the curly bulbs. They use a bulb that has 4 slender straight prongs side-by side.)

One time/place where I think incandescents make sense is where/when you don't mind if a good deal of the energy spent is turned to heat rather than light.   E.g., in winter time, the incandescents may provide enough heat to compensate for some of the furnace's work.   Another use I have for incandescents is for lights that are seldom turned on for more than a few minutes at a time - especially if they're turned on and off frequently, such as my motion-sensored porch lights.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: BK Lick
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 01:52 AM

I can't figure out what part of the EPA page Ron thinks I overlooked.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:23 AM

My problem with them was a "strobe" effect.

They would flicker very fast, even after they'd been on for over 30 minutes, and the resulting strobe effect was dizzying to say the least.

My wife didn't like them either.

Then when we replaced them with the old incandescents, no problem.

I'd like to be earth-friendly, but not at the cost of barfing when I turn on the light.

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:28 AM

flourescents!!!!!

LH, write out one hundred times by tomorrow morning:

I must spell "fluorescent" with u before o.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:31 AM

here in Australia incandescant lights are being phased out. All the Utility companies have been giving these new wonder globes out for years & everyone is supposed to use them cos the old ones are inefficient etc.

I used the new lights in my ceiling lights in my bedroom & living room where I have antique/vintage glass light fittings & don't find the light strong enough, as I have cataracts, which will be around for years as they were only diagnosed a few years ago. These new lights are also in my kitchen & bathroom, in modern fittings without covers.

But I need extra light - so I have a LED desk lamp on my computer table & a "Daylight" lantern on my working table, a mini-fluro over my sink cos shelves block the main light & a small incandescent light over my kitchen workbench, cos other shelves block the light there.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: mouldy
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:56 AM

I've used them for years, and they are now much better than they used to be. You can get them encased in opaque globes, which softens the lights, and can be used quite successfully in ornamental lamps too. I've even found some small ones which replace the candle bulbs in my wall lights, without sticking out of the top of the shades. However, I will agree that the bulky bases do make them hard to use in some fittings.

As for LEDs, well I'm all for them, despite the price. So much so that I went and bought a load of LED little spotlights to replace the halogen spots in my bathroom...only to realise that there are two types of fitting, and mine are the one which doesn't come in LED, dammit!

However, I am planning replacing the ugly fluorescent tubes in my kitchen, and will try and use them in that - fingers crossed!

Andrea

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:01 AM

Bright lights have always affected me. School was hell (for many reasons) with its miles of fluroescent strips everywhere. Then strobe lighting at discos and rock gigs, I couldn't stand up when they came on, had to go out of the room entirely, still do.

I've got a weird 'visual' brain, so things affect it like that. Bright sunshine flashing through trees, when you're in the car, uh oh, hello migraine..all that sort of stuff. Loathe those 'blue' bulbs which are supposed to mirror actual daylight, they make me feel really down, so cold and bleak. Colours affect me deeply. Warm gold lighting is great. Makes me happy. :0)

I've reached an age now though where I think ALL fluorescent lights and indeed bright lights in general should be banned, and replaced by candlelight. Far more romantic and you can pretend that you're only 17 again, instead of catching sight of yourself in a halogen lit mirror and going "Holy Jumping Catfish! Who IS that?" :0)

We've got around 50 new spotlights in The National Trust shop, and once they've all warmed up they look beautiful, warm golden sunshine, which draws in the customers. So many people comment on the lighting, "Ooh, it does look **beautiful** in here, dear!"

Sunshine gold makes people feel happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:12 AM

We are stock-piling old style light-bulbs as Anne can't cope with the new ones migraine-wise.
Having a shade over them helps a bit, but we keep having to ask friends to switch particular lights off when we go visiting.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:34 AM

Most of the comments have been made already. I replaced most of the lights with these when we moved in 2001 and, as these start to burn out, am putting in the smaller, "warm", ones. (Don't believe the "lasts 7 years" stuff, BTW.) As Sorcha says, the original ones didn't fit into some fixtures, but I've had no problems with the newer ones. They may give out less than the alleged lumen equivalent, but I can replace 60w bulbs in the bathroom, for example, with 23w compacts, and get more lumens for less money. I've put a couple into ceiling fans as fan bulbs wear out, even though they aren't "rated" for fans, and have had no trouble.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:36 AM

We've used them for years without problems -- and I am problematic with flickering lights.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:39 AM

"I can't figure out what part of the EPA page Ron thinks I overlooked. "

There is a lot of information there, plus attachements, and I have a feeling you did not check the information about CFL's.

Naturally the EPS is going to have very stringent guidelines about cleaning up of hazardous materials - they need to be covered and if you read the entire page and attachements you will see that you are probably in more danger opening a jar of jelly than you are from a CFL.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 08:40 AM

I'm beginning to feel wistful about the old days when people lived bu candles and torchlight! ;-) I once lived for the better part of a year in a camp where there was no electricity. The result of that was...getting up at the crack of dawn...cooking with fires...pumping water with a hand pump...and making one's own entertainment by getting together with instruments and all singing. Man, it was great. Also, one tended to spend a lot of time outdoors, do a lot of outside work, and go to bed not too long after sunset. There were evening gatherings around campfires, but people didn't tend to stay up too late generally speaking. I found that way of life to be very healthful and I was happier for the most part than I am among all the modern conveniences....mind you, I was also younger and more flexible than I am now. It's easier to take a lack of physical conveniences when you're young.

I had a look at these particular fluorescents. They don't say that they are either "cool" or "warm" or anything else, but I'm betting that they are the "cool blue" ones. I'll have to find some place like a storage room for using these ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 09:13 AM

Got 'em, like 'em, and don't have any other kind of lighting in the house anymore, except for the weird halogens over the bathroom vanity. It took a while for smaller ones that fit in tighter fixtures to appear on the market, but that was just the industry adapting to consumer needs. In my home office/studio I work all day under a ceiling fan/light with 3 of them in it without ill effects that I can discern.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 10:43 AM

If you look a bit, they DO have CFLs inside round glass globes, so that clip-on shades will easily fit over them. (I even have a couple of the small coil type with clip-on shades that work ok)

I can't comment on the 'flicker' effect that some folks say they are sensitive to...I seem to be immune.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 01:19 PM

The new-type bulbs don't bother me at all. I never hear any kind of hum, nor do I notice any kind of flicker.

We have 'em throughout the house, everywhere except in the half-dozen recessed fixtures controlled by a single dimmer switch (in the kitchen ceiling), and in a couple of ceiling-fan fixtures with undersized globes. (We DO have CFLs in at least four other ceiling fans.)

I suppose I'm not as sensitive as some of you more artistic types. It's OK to be dumb and happy, I suppose, much as I hate to admit such a thing about myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 01:32 PM

I love the new compact fluorescent bulbs. I have several installed already, and I plan to replace all my old incandescent bulbs with CFs as they burn out.

When CFs first came out, they didn't fit in some of my lamps, but the newer ones fit just fine.

As for "true color"—incandescent bulbs don't show true color either, compared to sunlight. You're just used to them, so they seem normal.

There's another advantage no one has mentioned: CFs are cooler. If you live in a hot climate and need air conditioning or fans at least part of the time, you'll save even more money.

If a 23-watt fluorescent bulb produces the same amount of light as a 100-watt incandescent bulb, that means it not only uses 77% less electricity; it also produces 77% less heat.

Some light fixtures are rated by wattage. They might have a sticker saying "Do not exceed –– watts." If you exceed the recommended wattage, there is an increased risk of overheating and fire. I expect it would shorten the life of your bulb, if not worse. The restriction applies to actual wattage, not apparent wattage.

(By apparent wattage, I mean that fluorescent bulbs are often labeled with a number—say "100"—to indicate that they're meant to replace a 100-watt incandescent bulb, because they produce a comparable amount of light. Don't confuse this number with the actual wattage, which is much less.)

So I figure this means you could make your fixture 4 times brighter than before, without exceeding the recommended wattage. (That's assuming you can find CF bulbs of an appropriate size and rating.)

I haven't actually tried this, however.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: BK Lick
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:55 PM

Look Ron, me bucko, I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you, and I use CFLs in my house too,
but I can't fathom why you would choose to make such glaringly false assertions about the danger
associated with the mercury they contain:

The mercury is minuscule in these new lights, probably more in the fish I had for dinner

You are probably in more danger opening a jar of jelly than you are from a CFL.

As you observed, CFLs contain about four milligrams, but a six ounce serving of salmon contains
about 0.2 of a microgram—it'd take 7500 pounds of salmon to contain four milligrams of mercury.

Your second assertion strikes me as reckless. Someone here reading what you wrote might well
construe it to mean that when a CFL drops and breaks it can be cleaned up in the same way a broken
jelly jar can be dealt with which could lead to tragic results, especially if there are young children in
the household. I strongly urge everyone to review the EPA page I referenced: What to Do if a Fluorescent Light Bulb Breaks

—BK

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: GUEST,Bizibod
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 05:57 PM

Can't bear them.Sort of imminent thunderstorm type of light. Find it most depressing.Candle-light and paraffin lamps for me when the incandescent bulbs run out.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 06:53 PM

The mercury in a thermometer was liquid mercury, and pretty much inert--the form that is in bulbs is much more toxic, and because of its powder form, can be easily inhaled, ingested, or assimilated through the skin--the damaged and broken lamps have been shown to release mercury vapor over time--

One broken CFL isn't likely to kill anyone, but mercury can be cumulative, and the longer it stays in the body, the more harm it does. Inorganic, or elemental mercury is cleaned out pretty quickly, but methylmercury stays with you, and is responsible for all those horrid things that we read about in the newspapers.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 07:23 PM

There is no contest BK. I'm sorry you did not get the jokes and I would be sorry for anyone who got mercury poisoning because of it.

Yet it is not reckless to say that CFL's are safe.   Let everyone who reads this ask themself the question - did you ever break a fluorscent light bulb?   Did you go through the motions that the EPA suggests?

The sky is not falling. We are not in any danger. You can do yourself more harm with a jelly jar. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Unpleasant new coil lighting!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 10:13 PM

because of its powder form¨

I think you will find that the mercury is in vapour form. This very nasty case it can be inhaled. The powders however are quite nasty too.