From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: BK Lick
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:25 AM

Max, if you're still looking at prospective new hosts you might
consider Servint -- I've been running a VPS server there for four
years and think they're the best in the business.

Sending a small Paypal contribution.

—BK

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:13 AM

I have often checked into this site because I know it is a wonderful source of knowledge and inspiration. It's hard to fathom that it is in the main the work of one person that draws so many together because of a shared interest. But the abiding clarity is that Max has achieved something for the greater good and I find that immensely impressive. I don't know Max and may never know him or any of the regulars here but you have got my attention and respect. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge and thoughts

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:21 AM

When it comes to great colleges, my vote goes to Bowdoin.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Marion
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:35 AM

I agree with Janie 100%. The bullying and insults that have been directed at Sorcha because of a perfectly reasonable question are an embarrassment to the Mudcat community.

It's valid to donate "blindly" based on your past relationship with or impression of Max. And it's also valid to think analytically about where your donation dollars are going to go and to ask for further information. If another person's approach is not the same as yours, that's not a problem - each can do what their heart and brain lead them to do, without having any conflict.

Sorcha's contributions to the Mudcat- in musical knowledge, in social support, and in the CD project - are obvious to anyone who's been paying attention. And if you had the honour to visit her home, as I did a few years go, you would see how freely and broadly she devotes her time and energy to her family and community (not to mention to her Mudcat guests), and you would put to rest any doubts you have about her generosity.

I know Sorcha, and I really, really dislike seeing the bitchy remarks about her that I'm seeing in this thread (that's bitchy in both the male and female styles).

Marion

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:59 AM

My remarks are not bitchy nor ganging on. My remarks are directed at someone who could have directed the same comments she made publicly to Max in a PM and probably got a different response. But when one makes comments in a public forum, they invite a response. While I consider both of Sorcha's defenders as friends, I must say that, in my opinion, they are wrong. I always look at motivation. If Sorcha's motivation was a quest for info, that would be handled differently and privately. If Sorcha's motivation was to point out that there are improprieties, then public is the way to go, and she should step up with her opinion on what those are. If Sorcha's motivation is to kill off a request made by Max (which he rarely does, and only when his private costs get very burdensome) then public is the way to go. But if you go public, you invite response. That is life in the internet forum. And my response is offered in the very same mode that she made her comments.

There is a difference between ganging up on someone and being on the other side from the opinion of most folks. If you two friends cannot look at her comments and see that the contrary opinions are in the same vein and tone as her original comment, well .... then I guess we just disagree.

As to me, I stand by my own response.

First of the month, Max.

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:10 AM

Could we please just drop the arguing in Max's thread?
I figured once he responded, it should have been over, IF people had as much respect for him as they portray themselves having.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:12 AM

You are free to do anything you would like to do. That is another hallmark of Mudcat. Feel free not to comment. Thanks.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:26 AM

Repeated posts that shout

> WHERE did the money actually GO?

> I don't care WHERE the money came from, or who gave how much...but what was it used for? WHERE did it GO?

send a certain signal. Those questions were asked on the open forum, and it's fair to respond to them. They also carry an accusing tone. If she merely wanted an answer I don't see why she could not have asked privately. She made it public, now it stays public. We have the right to respond, and to disagree without being told off for it. It's a fair call.

And I don't think the bulk of replies have been bitchy - I believe mine wasn't: publishing accounts does cost in either time or money, and when you work for no salary you need something to live on and feed your children with.

I hope Sorcha will not stay away for long, and I realise that she has contributed much of value to the forum. But I think demanding accountancy in this manner was out of line.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Maryrrf
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:31 AM

I'm coming to this late, but I want to make this comment. I have belonged to a couple of internet forums where there was a charge to subcribe. In no case was there any 'accountability' in terms of where the money went. If you wanted and liked the service, you subscribed and paid the fee. The 'accountability' was that the forum and the information provided was there for you to use and enjoy.

Max was simply asking for voluntary donations - no one is obligated to pay. Mudcat is either worth it to you or it isn't.   I'm currently in pretty dire economic circumstances but I intend to send a small donation. Sorcha's comments were way out of line, most especially because of the accusatory tone which implied that Max was somehow trying to bilk the Mudcat community. Whatever she may have contributed in the past, her remarks were uncalled for and insulting.

Frankly, I marvel at Max's patience when confronted with such ingratitude.   

Sometimes I find Mudcat exasperating, frustrating, irritating, and dysfunctional. But it's also full of wit, humor, knowledge and fun. It's my community and I feel a sense of belonging. I check in several times a day. If it were to go away there would be a tremendous void.

Thank you, Max, for creating and maintaining the Mudcat community.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:31 AM

We can seem to work up a fight over anything here...

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:32 AM

I'm with Mick.

Mind you, the comments concerned so completely incensed me that I finally got round to sending some money, which I've been meaning to do for a very long time. So I guess it's that 'every cloud and silver lining' bit, in a way. I think Max knows he's more than just a little loved due to this thread, and how we feel about all that he does. And that's a good thing too.

Hey, ONE cloud, TWO silver linings! :0)

And I'm sure there may well be a few more 'silvers' before this thread is done.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:55 AM

Hmmmmm... many of us have been around long enough to recall more than one discussion about "donations". Indeed, Max actually did lay it all out, in general, in at least ONE of THOSE discussions. Perhaps some Mudcatters just missed those threads, or forgot them, or haven't researched them, or... whatever.

Bottom line is, yo don't gotta donate or even use the FREE services if ya don't wanna.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:15 PM

When you open a door there is no telling what may wander in.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: ClaireBear
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:46 PM

Maryrrf, that was truly eloquent.

The aforementioned comments get me to write a check too -- and even find an envelope, a stamp, and a mailbox -- so I'm pleased to be yet another constituent of the silver lining but ever so distressed about the presence of the cloud.

Claire

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM

Well if I offended...........whatever............

Look, Sorch has an opinion and others are entitled to agree or disagree and that does not constitue ganging up or bullying. It is what it is. Should I be offended because you disagree with me or say those people who do are bullying me or ganging up on me? We disagree and its a discussion.

And as said, opinions are like assholes and I have one of each plus being an asshole myself which makes a total of THREE!!!

So send some coin......or don't......and let's move on.


Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:36 PM

Where would we all be without assholes, spell them how you will?

Nine times out of ten I'd agree with Sorcha on this. And as Max said, it was "a valid point."

We do squabble, and much of the time that's quite fun, and even when it isn't fun, it's mostly fair. Just sometimes there's a bit of a tendency for someone to get mobbed, and that's ugly. It didn't quite get there, it seemed to be heading that way.

So here is something completely different, and a lot more useful than continued squabbling. It's a daft game someone sent my wife. It'll drive you crazy. It's said to be used to train air force pilots, who are supposed to be able keep it going for at least two minutes... I've managed 10 and a half seconds so far.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:04 PM

Kevin, that kind of crap will get you banned!!!! We have important things to do around here, and mindless games like this are not the stuff that soaring intellects should be bothered with.

My best so far is 11.506

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:09 PM

Spaw:

You should be offended because I think you are a blower of possum assholes. AT the same time it is important that you take personal responsibility for whatever you have done to generate that impression in the Universe.


A

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:12 PM

Beuys if you dinny behave i will send Granny ower there and she'll pit ye ower her knee there will be tears afore bedtime

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:14 PM

Megan, don't tell them THAT or they'll never stop!

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:14 PM

Hey, in bullriding all you have to manage is 8 seconds. I made it to 9 so far.

Great distraction.

Meanwhile, Mudcat seems to have been stable online for a few days now. It's the occupants who are tilting here and there. Seems about normal . . .

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:15 PM

Then again, 'Granny' might scare them...

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Megan L
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:15 PM

LOL I thought it wis only oor Bruce had that proclivity

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:18 PM

I agree with Mich on that last point.

Dan (15.306!)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:19 PM

Better known as Mick.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 04:29 PM

Dan ... you know I love you like a little brother ..... bite me. Now I will have to go and try to top that. Little &*^%#$#%^&.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:21 PM

This site is part of my day, I'll send some cash but....
I refuse to get involved with Paypal again, is there an alternative to posting a cheque from the UK?

Al

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:24 PM

UK Friends of Mudcat. Contact John Routledge by PM for the account number, and you can pay directly into that account. the money is then transferred to Max in instalments.
John

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:24 PM

Perhaps you could hook up with someone who does use it? Is Friends of the Mudcat still in operation?

Mick
(16.927)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Abdul The Bul Bul
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:52 PM

Whizzer. I'll give it a go.

Al

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Artful Codger
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:54 PM

I have two requests:

(1) Surely there are some people with pull who could assist Max in getting grants to fund the running of this site. It is the most valuable resource now existing for the free exchange of folk music information, and should not be dependent for its existence on the fortunes, inclinations and unrequited efforts of just one person--or the monetary generosity of folkies (never a flush lot).

(2) Max, could you start a read-only thread for status information only, so that people who want to stay informed do not have to keep weeding through all the foofarrah?

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:58 PM

Five year old Morgan wants me to tell you old men he managed 4.27 seconds on his first try!

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:11 PM

37.375

OK, it took me a few goes....well...*quite* a few, but I worked out that you hit the walls far more times than the squares, so you need to stay in the middle. When it starts, you go to the left, then up to the top, go right, then back to the middle and try to stay there....Relax your eyes, focus on the centre of the whiteness, not the colours, let them drift in from all around, relax in the chair and get plenty of room for the mouse to roam on the desk...

Then realise that you have no history time line, that you can't remember information on pages that you read, that you have no way of even storing the order of songs on a CD in your head, your ramble incoherently and incessantly..but hell, you can avoid little blue boxes as if you were born to do it!

And worry! LOLOL :0)

I've FOUND my talent!!!!

Oh, Gawd.........Mudcat, what HAVE you done to me! :0)

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:26 PM

Very impressive Lizzie - I haven't managed anything near that. Perhaps you'll make a fighter pilot yet.
...............................

As for cash - maybe we could me have one of those big red barometers they have outside churches which are trying to get the cash to mend the roof showing where have got to.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:09 PM

I totally endorse the anonymous 22 Jan 09 - 06:13 AM posting. I will make a contribution via the UK bank account.

Richard

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:28 PM

Okay, I made 16 on the game....not all the way but it'll do. I own the Official Possum (Cleigh O'Possum) so

SEND ON GRANNY

and I'll give her a go!

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: GUEST,Sorcha
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:34 PM

Look, I'm an Old Hippie Chick...remember 'Challenge Authority'?


And yes, Janie, I'm irascible...but I think there are probably a LOT of irascible people on this site. I sort of consider that a compliment.


Marion, thank YOU. And Kevin too.

I have also rec'ed PMs from several in support but it seems that 'most' people who actually agree with me are somehow afraid to come out of the closet? Come on people....

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:48 PM

I thought it might be...

I can't get past 11 seconds...

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:52 PM

"remember 'Challenge Authority'?"

Max isn't authority, he's one of us - he just happens to own the ball we're playing with.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:00 PM

I got past 12 and had to stop. One thing I discovered was it doesn't pay to keep going in the same direction. Sometimes, reversing works.

Just like life, isn't it? Sometimes you have to be willing to back up to go forward. Life is like a box of boxes. Things will come at you from all directions, and if you keep bombing around at full speed, you're going to get knocked out by brainless blue squares, daddy-o.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: curmudgeon
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:03 PM

Meanwhile, back on topic; I finally got my PayPal $ sent, and added a bit to cover the charge; others using PayPal might want to do same   - Tom

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Jeri
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:11 PM

Paypal has said they didn't collect a fee on what I sent. Maybe it has to do with where the money came from? Mine was in my PayPal account.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: John Routledge
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:29 PM

Just sent out "Friends of The Mudcat" bank details to 2 more UK Catters.

Any more for any more.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:44 PM

The way I see it , regardless of Full Accountability , there are SO many of us who enjoy The Cat That if EVERY member sent $5 , and HALF the visitors sent $2 Max would be able to set up what ever was needed !
Personally , for what I have got out of Mudcat Membership I would not object too strongly about an annual membership fee - As long as it wasnt going to be anything like what Governments are paying the bloody banks !

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:45 PM

Don't worry Kevin. Many men have that problem. . .

I think the PBS model is a good one. Watch or listen, and pay what you can, if you can.

SRS

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Beer
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:48 PM

Late arriving. Thought it was a follow up thread to the previous one about ideas for the site.
I'm disappointed in that Sorcha asked the question publicly but I don't disagree that the question was asked. I'm sure she has contributed to this site as much (and maybe a lot more)as any member. I may not agree with a lot that she has to say, but I do hold her in respect of her right to offer her opinion. I think that maybe Sorcha has been an active member longer than many of us and should be treated with respect. instead of telling a member to get lost or some other negative adjective that just leaves hurt it would be a lot more respectful and not as hurtful to just disagree in a positive way. As an example; "Sorcha, I don't agree with you but you are entitled to your opinion". BTW, that is also my opinion.

Leadfingers,
While reading all the threads I kept thinking that I would be in favor of a membership fee. Here I get to the last post and you make the suggestion.
I believe that it would solve many problems such as the one just occurring as well as it would help Max out in that he wouldn't have to appear to be begging all the time. How much for membership would have to be determined by Max and his team. I have no idea.    But I don't think it would be to hard to figure out how much it would cost to become a member. It would save so much time instead of trying to come up with ideas to raise funds or asking for money. The number of members divided into an approximate $ value per year. There would be a problem for "Guests" however.
Mudcat has been of great value to me in many ways. I have met musicians and made friends. I have promoted the festival I run. I have had questions answered in threads I have started and the list goes on. I probably have spent way to much time on this site but that is because I'm hooked. All this has a dollar value that I could never afford.
Adrien

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:39 AM

I believe Paypal only charge if you are buying something, not if the money is a gift. (So presumably they would charge for a membership fee.)

The continued existence of Mudcat is evidence enough for me of where the money goes. I don't want Max to have to spend his valuable time on book keeping.

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Banjiman
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:41 AM

Money on the way.

and thanks.

Paul

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:12 AM

The problem with an annual sub (which I too would not object to paying) is that it will diminish the site as a resource, simply because a lot fewer people would post here or even see it. Just as supermarkets make a lot of money on prominently-displayed "impulse purchase" items, there's a valuable surf-in input which we'd lose. Guests can sometimes be a pain, but those are well outnumbered by the ones who bring gems of info or spark interesting questions which then elicit other nuggets. We would all be the poorer for the loss of that. (And yes, I'm well aware of the amount of behind-the-scenes work undertaken by unpaid clones, scraping out the crap and spam in order to maintain that positive ratio.)

I prefer the discretionary-donation option, for the health of the site. Or perhaps suggesting a voluntary annual figure, which people are free to pay or not pay?

PS: Just put the wheels in motion for joining UK friends - I'd sent my PM to the wrong John (sorry, mate).

Subject: RE: From Max: Mudcat Update - Jan 20, 2009
From: Leadfingers
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:18 AM

I agree that any Subscription would have to be carefully thought out - NO WAY would I want to discourage any one from visiting the site and adding to any discussion - But Members already have access to facilities that are NOT available to guests - Chat (WHEN it is working) and PM's immediately spring to mind .