BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK

Subject: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:03 AM

I support the issue concerning Britsh Jobs for British Workers.

However, what I do not support, is Wildcat or Unofficial Strikes.

This country is already on its knees, and these strikes will only make matters worse.

All I can say, is that the people on strike are lucky to have a job.

Quote fromm BBC News
Wildcat strikes are "not defensible", Gordon Brown has told those angry at the employment of foreign workers.

Hundreds of employees staged unofficial walkouts across the UK over the use of foreign staff at Lincolnshire refinery.

The PM told the BBC's Politics Show he understood workers' fears, but walkouts were "not the right thing to do".

The Tories said they did not back strikes either but said Mr Brown's 2007 "British jobs for British workers" pledge had been exposed as "fiction".

End of quote.

I don't like Gordon Brown to say the least, but I have to put my hands up and support what he says. Of course the Tories agree with him, but have to make cheap snidey comments, that IMHO do not help matters.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Megan L
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:10 AM

"British Jobs for British workers" Thats a laugh there are no British jobs left as for forieng workers well they only ever took the jobs that British "workers" deemed beneath them.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:17 AM

As I understand it the strikes have come about because British workers are being specifically excluded from working on contracts by European contractors. If that is the case then surely it is discrimination against British workers?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:20 AM

Yes of course Eanjay.

However, wildcat strikes are not the answer. Thye just bring the country to its knees.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:29 AM

wildcat strikes are not the answer

I agree but what is the answer?

If companies are practising discrimination against British workers then surely the companies should be prosecuted and made to change their policy. Is the government doing anything about this?

The trouble is that things can get out of hand in these situations and turn nasty.

Thye just bring the country to its knees

.....and to add to the strikes bringing everything to a halt we now have the snow......!

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Paul Burke
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:31 AM

I do support the idea that we should be careful about importing labour when it forces down conditions for local workers. But it's just a little more complicated than that. These contracts were made probably years ago. The contractors recruited their workforces probably a year or more ago, when employment was pretty full in Britain for anyone with the necessary skills. They don't want to sack an existing workforce, and have to take on and probably train new ones, who are hammering at the door only because their old jobs have gone.

"Wildcat" strikes? We have very poor employment rights in Britain compared with most other semicivilised countries.

The real worry about this wave of actions is that the labour movement is powerless, and there is no political party that supports the working class- indeed, most people deny that it exists, and are very shocked to find that they are working class, when they cease to be working. This denial gives the racist parties a crack to push their skrewdriver into, blaming not cynical employers and fatcat bosses* but foreigners (and how long before pakis, coons and pikies?) for their problems.

*Politics of envy? Is that worse than the politics of gluttony and avarice?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rog Peek
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:31 AM

Haven't you noticed Villan, the banks and the government have already brought the country to its knees.

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:37 AM

Whats that got to do with Wildcat Strikes Rog?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Arnie
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:54 AM

The problem stems from EU labour laws - these give the right to freedom of movement, and jobs, throughout the EU for all EU citizens. Not a problem in times of plenty but I think Brussels will find it's chickens coming home to roost during a recession. The French were taking to the streets to protest about unemployment before the wildcat strikes over here, and predictably these demonstrations will spread throughout the EU. Of course, there were few if any protests in the UK over the recent E.European invasion of Poles and Lithuanians, as they do the lower paid, mainly agricultural jobs that most Brit workers did not want to touch. The problem in Lincolnshire is that the Italians and Portuguese have been brought in to do skilled, high-paid jobs that the unemployed in the local populace are capable of doing and want to do. However, any attempt to ban EU workers from British jobs is illegal and just will not happen, so I hope Brown and his mates have got a real solution rather than just mealy-mouthed phrases about British jobs for British workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 06:59 AM

"as they do the lower paid, mainly agricultural jobs that most Brit workers did not want to touch."

Really? So why is it is nigh impossible to find a plumber or an electrician or a builder or a loft converter in east London who doesn't have a middle European accent?

Those jobs are neither agricultural nor low paid.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: GUEST,Aston
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:10 AM

Eastern European workers had added to the problems here. It's a bomb waiting to explode. The government MUST place restrictions on numbers entering county.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:34 AM

Gordon Brown says today that his "British jobs for British workers" slogan was actually referring to plans to give British workers more skills.

"When I talked about British jobs, I was taking about giving people in Britain the skills, so that they have the ability to get jobs which were, at present, going to people from abroad… and actually encouraging people to take up the courses and the educational and learning that it is necessary for British workers to be far more skilled for the future," he will tell BBC's Politics Show.

here

Pity he hadn't it made it clear at the time.

Of course he hasn't said how he will address the issue of foreign firms undercutting British engineering and construction companies.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:36 AM

Listen, can you hear something?

Yes, it's the lesser Brown Backpedaller....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:41 AM

Look I don't like Brown, but am not having a go at him on this.

It's about Wildcat strikers. Do you support their actions and if so, why?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:53 AM

I don't support wildcat strikes but it is important to understand what they are all about, why they happen and why people take part in them and to look at what other options people have for protest.

Pat McFadden, the employment minister, has asked ACAS, the independent arbitration body, to investigate allegations that British workers were being excluded illegally from working for certain foreign-owned construction firms. The government has promised to act, let's hope they do.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:55 AM

I am a union member and I do not approve of any action taken that is not sanctioned by the whatever union one is a member of.

If as alledged, the European contractors are discriminating against British workers, then surely it would be provable and as such as illegal. I think it highly unlikely they have done anything illegal.

I think it more likely that these Wildcatters have been led by unsavoury sources of information. Some newspapers come to mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:00 AM

VT
Very well put and it is nice to see union members who do not condone wildcat strikes.
Les

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:05 AM

The facts that I have seen in the papers are way more complex than outlined above - and I may not have all of them on board yet.

However one factor in the fact that these strikes are wildcat strikes is that Thatcher deliberately made the process for a union to call a strike difficult, so that she could fine unions for calling them, and so take thier money, so there would be less money in strike funds to support even legal strikers.

I therefore say tht the reason that these strikes are "wildcat" is that the procedures that would stop them being "wildcat" are deliberately loaded against potential strikers.

The reason that there are these strikes (whether wildcat or not) is that these workers see no other way of defending themselves against organised capital.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:07 AM

I believe that the phraes, 'Brish jobs for British workers' was stolen from the BNP, and was an attempt to lessen their appeal to disaffected and disillusioned unemployed Britsh workers..
Oh how it has backfired on him, silly man.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 08:18 AM

Any Union is required to give several (I think 6?) months notice of planned strike action and can only do so after lengthy negotiations and a ballot of its members.

That way, the negotiation process can be given full time to work, and many more strikes are called off due to resolution than actually take place.

The government of the Thatcher era, particularly the early-mid 1980's did indeed shackle the Unions to prevent the 'wildcat' strikes, and also to prevent 'flying pickets' - members of other Unions and from other areas coming in to bolster and encourage what might have otherwise been seen as a weak and unstable picket line. These 'flying pickets' were seen as 'rent-a-mob' as violence and breaches of the peace invariably followed their progress across the country. Whether this was fact or not, it was given as a major reason for restricting the number of official pickets now allowed to congregate at a strike site.

I am a Union member, Public and Commercial Services (PCS) and before that UNISON and NALGO (National Association of Local Government Officers). I support my Union in most things but I will not support illegal, wildcat strikes. In my experience they do more harm than good, alienating the general public to what may be a genuine grievance. Thus the whole process of industrial action is tainted and more and more rights of the worker are ignored, agreements broken and people made to suffer.

Strike action should always be the last resort, not the first salvo.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:37 AM

I assume they don't get paid whilst on unofficial strike.
Maybe, they should be threatened with losing their jobs if they don't get straight back to work. I am sure there would be people willing to have their jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 09:51 AM

I rather think it's the threat of losing their jobs that has many of them out on strike in the first place. No-one takes strike action lightly, least of all those who lose a day's pay because of it.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: The Barden of England
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:30 AM

What about the British workers who are working elsewhere in the EU? Beware lest what's good for the goose turns out to be bad for the gander. Once again xenophobia hits these shores and it bothers me plenty. By the way I am a paid up member of the CWU for what it's worth.
John Barden

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:40 AM

It was Brown who said "British jobs for British workers" at the labour conference so he will in this incidence be given credit for the phrase.

RB - I know Thatcherite regulations penalise unions for taking strike action and this hampers processes and progress. But does that excuse contradicting the union? Only perhaps as a final straw. I don't know what discussions have been taking place, if any.

I believe the reason behind the first unsanctioned strike is as much due to panic over the current financial crisis. Tata cleaning house at Corus Steel did not help matters. Workers everywhere are sweating bullets (myself included).

But I still think it better to fight against unfairness through the proper channels. If the channels are corrupt then vote the people in who can will clean them up. In the interim, large numbers of people should write to their local and central government representatives demanding changes to the laws and regulations. I know that is not going to happen but it still needs to be said, whether it is realistic or not.

An angry mob (especially one focussed against foreign workers) does not help the situation. Whether or not it is good to polarise the voting public at this stage remains to be seen.

That is just my pollyannish take. If I weren't an idealist, I would probably have topped myself long ago. I may yet... just take a nose dive from the top of Essex county hall like that bloke who was restructured out of a job, this time last year.

Nah! I couldn't give em the satisfaction.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: bubblyrat
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:45 AM

Should be clear to even the simple-of-mind by now that the EU does NOT WORK ,and was never going to !! Pull out now,I say,before it's too late !!

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 10:45 AM

How soon before these hit the US, do you suppose?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 11:17 AM

Rapaire

I have a friend who works as an editor of state code for LexisNexis in Charlosttesville Virginia. Last year they were trying to convince a number of staff to take positions to India. The company claimed so they would continue in their normal work and train editors and word processors in India. At least they were honest about the change in pay. Not enough to live on in the US but a great income by India's standards.

If she agreed, my friend would have to sell her house in order to pay for accommodation in India and leave her husband who works in Charlottesville.

So now think about any jobs in the US that can be outsourced to countries where pay and conditions are below current US market. Call centers for insurance, banks, telecom, etc. and many products you purchase.

It might get to state agencies using foreign call centers to manage in coming enqiries and using private companies to supply and pay staff. In the UK, the private companies are eyeing libraries greedily and councils are encouraging them. Someone thinks there is a profit to be made in information that is supposed to be (statutorially) free to the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 12:01 PM

What about the British workers who are working elsewhere in the EU?

The argument is not against foreign workers, it's against EU companies discriminating against British labour.

It appears that the EU "posted workers" directive has given companies outside the UK permission to operate in this country using workers from its country of origin to the exclusion of British workers, as long as it's for a limited time and the company abides by local working conditions. Presumably this is a reciprocal situation but from my knowledge British companies working abroad invariably use local workers alongside British workers. The British always play it fair.

The directive appears to be allowed on the basis that the workforce brought into the UK will only be allowed to operate for a limited period. Is this period set out in the directive and if so what is it or is it negotiated as a part of the terms and conditions of the specific contract agreed for the work?

Whichever applies what happens when that time runs out? It is well known that construction projects are nearly always completed later than intended and are delayed due to various reasons, the weather, poor management, client changes etc. Do the companies immediately return workers home and employ local workers once the original time period expires?

Also is it the case that the company involved secured the contract because it could exclusively use Italian and Portuguese workers who may accept less remuneration for the services that they provide thereby giving the Employer an unfair advantage in pricing for the contract? Is this why there is an EU directive allowing companies to discriminate as to whether or not they use local workers?

Gordon Brown has said that his comments relating to British workers for British jobs was said in the context that British workers needed to be better trained to match the jobs available. We have some of the best trained construction workers, architects and engineers in the world currently sitting at home out of work. They are also probably the best trained in Health and Safety practices whereas this is not always the case in other European countries.

Perhaps it is time to get out of the EU!

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 01:09 PM

Quote from BBC News

The PM is under pressure from the trade unions to close a loophole in EU law which the unions say enables foreign companies to discriminate against British workers.

It follows two rulings by the European Court of Justice (ECJ) over the interpretation of the EU's Posted Workers Directive, which seeks to ensure companies cannot get round domestic labour laws and pay rates by using foreign employees.

The ECJ rulings suggest a company should be free to decide how it is composed, its staffing in other words, and free to provide the services it wishes.

The most significant ruling concerned a Latvian company, Laval, which had a contract to build schools in Sweden. Laval sought to use its own Latvian workforce. Swedish unions protested. Laval went to the ECJ claiming its freedom as a company was being inhibited by the action of the Swedish unions. Its complaint was upheld.

Unions in the UK suggest this ruling has now enabled foreign companies to discriminate against British workers for jobs.

Unquote

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 02:35 PM

I think I'm most concerned that the contract was awarded to a US company, that presumably makes a profit by using an Italian sub-contractor. So the money lost to UK workers is finishing up in US hands, and we know how US capital plays trade rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: GUEST,Essex now in Charlotte
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 07:32 PM

I have to say that I am behind all those chaps who came out and think it was a jolly good show. Those workers are angry at the pro-immigration, out-of-touch internationalism of many left-wing union leaders. Now's the time to stand up and defend the rights and livelihoods of British workers.

Good luck I say. Best of British.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:22 AM

Essex now in Charlotte - I see you have not posted on mudcat before under this ID.

I am curious. Are you now living and working in the US?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:58 AM

I'll have to check the news for something about UK wildcatters, but perhaps "how it's done in the US" would be of interest:

Bailed-out banks sought foreign workers

Use of lower paid labor criticized by lawmakers, workers' advocates

The Associated Press
updated 1:02 p.m. CT, Sun., Feb. 1, 2009

SANTA CLARA, Calif. - Major U.S. banks sought government permission to bring thousands of foreign workers into the country for high-paying jobs even as the system was melting down last year and Americans were getting laid off, according to an Associated Press review of visa applications.

The dozen banks now receiving the biggest rescue packages, totaling more than $150 billion, requested visas for more than 21,800 foreign workers over the past six years for positions that included senior vice presidents, corporate lawyers, junior investment analysts and human resources specialists. The average annual salary for those jobs was $90,721, nearly twice the median income for all American households.

As the economic collapse worsened last year — with huge numbers of bank employees laid off — the numbers of visas sought by the dozen banks in AP's analysis increased by nearly one-third, from 3,258 in the 2007 budget year to 4,163 in fiscal 2008.

...

[end qoute] (The article also gives some clues as to how the Visa'd workers are cheaper.)

Back to the discussion.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:00 AM

At the moment the banks are on strike - they won't lend money either to people or to each other.

But of course this is never referred to as a strike.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 08:18 AM

Correct, Dave. Those are the pricks who brought the country to its knees, not the Lindsey Oil Refinery workers.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Rasener
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:22 AM

Just to clrify, incase that was aimed at me :-)

My Quote
This country is already on its knees, and these strikes will only make matters worse.
End of quote


bring somebody/something to their knees
b) to have such a bad effect on an organization, activity etc that it cannot continue [= cripple]:


I was on about Wildcat Strikes not what the banks have done. Thats another matter. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: paula t
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:12 PM

I find thia all rather scary. It smacks of WW11 and the scapegoating of the Jews for the recession in Germany........................

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: GUEST,Gilly
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:17 PM

Here we go again, World War two recalled, try a quote from Gaza Paula.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: paula t
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 01:19 PM

What do you mean by that?

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:20 PM

Lib Democrat leader Nick Clegg,"The truth is twice as many British people live and work in the EU than EU citizens work here. Any attempt to ban EU citizens from jobs in Britain would be a massive own goal".

My English born nephew has worked in Germany for the past 20 years along with the rest of his geordie mates he has settled down in Germany.    It reminds me of those London dockers downing tools and marching to Westminister in the 1960s, goaded on by arch racialist Enoch Powell, this protest was against the influx of black migrants.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:32 PM

It isn't the fact that EU citizens might work here, it's the fact that British workers were specifically excluded from working on some jobs, they had no opportunity to apply, no chance of ever getting the job. I'm sure that a lot of British people working in EU countries had to compete with citizens from that country for the job they are doing.

[No mention of Gordon Brown or banks :-) LOL]

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:45 PM

This is taken from the guardian.co.uk

Paul Kenny, general secretary of the GMB union, said Mandelson was "in denial about the nature of the problem" and the Labour party had been aware of the issue for five years.

"The facts are that the manner in which the EU 1996 Posted Workers Directive was applied into UK law in 1999 was botched," he said. "The Labour party recognised this in 2004 and made a manifesto commitment to apply Article 3(8) properly into UK law. That commitment, which was repeated in 2008, has not been honoured."

About 600 mechanical contractors met at the Sellafield site's Yottenfews car park at 7.30am to agree a 24-hour walkout in support of the Lindsey action.

One of the strikers, the GMB convener Willie Doggert, said: "All we want is a level playing field. It's not just about foreign workers. We need jobs to be advertised with transparency so that everybody gets a fair crack of the whip at getting them."

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 03:11 PM

Les, not having a dig at you at all! It was just an opinion. :-)

But the fact is that these guys are not bringing the country to its knees. As you rightly say, it's already on its knees and the LOR workers are victims of the foul misdeeds of the wankers, oops sorry, bankers who put it there.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: paula t
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:18 PM

Racist people will always be there - looking to stir up the fears of the most vulnerable people in times like these.They are very clever. They target a minority group in an area which is particularly struggling,then they use half truths or highlight a particular issue - claiming it to be a major reason for the loss of jobs and then watch it spread like wildfire.
All they then need is to fire up the right wing media and Bob's your uncle.
The banks have caused this recession - not a few "foreign"labourers who are exploited horribly by the people who hire them. I believe the unions would do better to try to ensure these workers were treated properly and paid the going rate rather than striking about their being employed.After all , many British people work in European countries because they are well paid. We would be up in arms if they were treated in the same way as the labourers here.

Gilly, you have not replied to my question so I'm not quite sure if you were "Having a dig" at me or had misunderstood my motives . However , I would like to point out that I was using the example of lies being told about the so-called effect of a minority group on the economy of a country,and these lies being used as an excuse for racist attacks. I don't believe either side in Gaza have used economic reasons as an excuse for their behaviour .This is why I didn't give it as an example.It wasn't relevant to the point I was making.There are other excuses being made for the atrocities there - on both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: GUEST,Member
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 05:15 PM

It's saddening and maddening to see the UNITE officials wanting workers kept away from the picket lines - but not surprising given the union's subservience to the Labour Party.

I'm sure that the protest has come from the bottom up; from the members, not from the leadership who are now obliged to respond to their members' anger. But UNITE members need to be asking the question of why their leadership allowed this in the first place. UNITE's funding of Labour makes them complicit in the existence of these treacherous E.U employment laws - it's Labour who put them in place and the government appears fully committed to their continuance.

Capitalism likes cheap labour, Socialism likes multicultarism seems obvious that both parties will back each other up on this one. As for Lib dems, who knows. I suppose it depends on who built the fence they are sitting on.

230,000 brits are supposed to have found work in europe with many of those in middle management whilst over one MILLION + have migrated to the uk and found work, with even more pouring in.....and that's supposed to be fair according to Mandelson and co ?

This goverment cares nothing for it's indigenous work force and even less what it thinks.......may the wild cat strikes grow........may the lights go out......and may this goverment be driven out of power whatever the cost......we owe it to the future of our children if they are to have one at all. Seems to me that Mandy & Broon think we should all act like opportunistic itinerants with no fixed abode. People have families, roots and history. Is it so much to ask that people can settle in the area of their birth?

I remember in the 80's when Tebbitt said "If you want work, get on yer bike". And a lot did. This social upheaval was the real start of a nation that has lost it's spirit and roots and now Liebour want us to go even further afield.

Well why the hell should we - just so you can manipulate us as pawns in a game and cream off the profits with your corporate buddies? Seems to me it is they who should get on their bikes!

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:25 PM

the recession has been brought about by a number of factors,unwise lending by the banks ,greed ,Icesave,etc,but not by wildcat strikes .the way out of this recession is to employ people in repairing and rebuilding infra structure.[not for the time being, in producing commodoties that are not selling]
when those people have money in their pockets[whatever nationality the are originally],they will spend the money in the country they are in,this then kick starts the economy ,and increases the demand for consumer goods.
why have people idle, claiming unemployment money when they can be repairing the roads maintaining flood barriers,repairing sewarage pipes etc,and with the extra money they get,able to spend more.
capitalism relies upon consumer spending,the people[whatever their nationality] have to have money to buy back the goods that are produced.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Kampervan
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:26 PM

But back to the original question of as to whether the wildcat strike is right or not.

I agree that a lot of damage was done in the mid to late 20th century by some stupid strike tactics, and it is right that there should be some thought given before a workforce walks out and brings an industry or even a country to a standstill.

But, at the end of the day, it is still a person's right to withdraw their labour. If they and their colleagues feel that strongly, and whether their argument is right or wrong,no-one can force them to remain at work if they choose to strike.

K/van

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 05:05 AM

The following is taken from the mirror.co.uk.

Lord Mandelson provoked fury yesterday after claiming strikers protesting about the use of overseas workers were driven by a hatred of foreigners.

The Business Secretary's remarks fuelled an escalation in the dispute, with thousands more workers walking out at nuclear power stations across the UK.

And enraged Union leaders accused Lord Mandelson of being in denial about what was happening to British workers at the Lindsey oil refinery.

He said Total "strongly" denied British workers were being discriminated against, insisting: "The initial examination suggests the company is right". Then he added: "Let's stop feeding this xenophobia."

If this is what he said then it appears to be irresponsible, unhelpful and for the majority of strikers I would say that it is untrue.

The strikes are not about xenophobia they are about fighting for the right to work in one's own country.

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:27 AM

I supprt them 100% and anyone doesn't support them is either a Tory or they should be one.

UP THE WORKERS

Subject: RE: BS: Wildcat/Unofficial Strikes in the UK
From: Stu
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 06:27 AM

Mandolson is the reason I would never vote Labour again. His Lordship is no friend of the working men and women of this country, preferring to hob-nob with the sort of people that have led us into the mess we're in now.