BS: BNP: What would you do?

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:30 PM

Your friend has opened his eyes Cllr. I respect him, as should you. The good Lord has graced him.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:28 PM

I'd have thought much less of you had you done otherwise, Mike. There are some things that friendship cannot ignore.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:26 PM

Don T knows I will happily call him a fascist bastard any day of the week. He of course will call me a gin-and-jaguar-belt revolutionary.

Another now deceased 'catter knew that I refused to co-operate in going with him to Tolpuddle one year on the ground that I would not be party to taking a fascist there.

Yet somehow we remain(ed) mostly friends.

But if denying the holocaust renders one unfit to teach (not on the ground that that is racist claptrap, but on the ground that it is stupid and proves inability to learn or teach history) why is the same not true of creationists who teach science?

Communists of course are never extreme, or in denial, but the observers of the truth about humanity that the rest of the world deines (grin). Oh, and also pillars of the UK folk establishment.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:20 PM

Lox, we have to confront which is why I would love to be in an open hustings with them

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:16 PM

I disagree Susan.

I'm with you on the point of continuing to see someone as your friend and yet staying true to your beliefs, but I disagree completely about saying nothing.

If they are standing as a political candidate then they need to get used to being accountable.

That starts with friends.

"how do you reconcile being a candidate for a party whose leader gives advice on how to make nazi language sound PC?"

and

"How do you reconcile being in a party who denies the overwhelming evidence that the holocaust happened and that has the same policies as the Nazis who perpetrated it?"

And you do it till they see the error of their ways or crack and do something stupid.

And you contact their all their friends and family and sustain the pressure on him.

Denial is at the heart of extreme politics, whether extreme Nationalist, extreme communist, extreme islamist or extreme christian fundamentalist.

To tackle it you have to confront them with the thing they are trying to deny.

Cutting off friendships, or compounding the denial by ignoring the subject allows it to grow and fester in the dark.

Subject: RE: BNP: What would you do?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 May 09 - 05:06 PM

I hope i am a loyal friend to those that are close to me but this is too much.

Forgive me not reading the whole thread. This statement jumped out at me as the relevant portion.

You asked what we would do. I'd like to think I could be a friend AND respect my beliefs, and I'd try to do it something like this:

"I hope you can understand that my position on the BNP is diametrically and firmly opposed to yours, and if our friendship is to continue it must be with a clear undertanding on that point. I believe a day will come when you regret your aligning yourself with them, and until that day comes it will be best if we do not discuss the BNP, at all. I stand ready to be there for you on the day when you realize you can't stomach them. Can we remain friends on that basis?"


Because.... I think anyone you HAVE respected will probably get to that stomach-turning day before too long, and he is really going to need a friend, then. If you cut it off now, he will not know he can turn to you. The cutting-off will be in the way, see? So I would expect of myself to sacrifice my own comfort-level (it would be very hard) to the greater need I believe my friend will have of me.

YOU have to do what YOU think is best, but that's what I hope I'd attempt to do, myself, which is what you asked. I don't envy you the decision. It's a bad place to be in, all the way around.


Abrazos,

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 04:51 PM

I'm not convinced that endng the friendship is the answer as it could end up isolating the person and causing them to entrench themselves further.

I believe the answer would be to confront them with the support of mutual associates.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:59 PM

The only honourable response Cllr.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cats
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:54 PM

I stand alongside all of you here. It is a great pity that she has decided to stand as the BNP candidate in Chippenham. I have sent her a personal message saying I respect any views she may hold, as she is entitled to, but when we come face to face she is obliged, under the rules of the BNP, to out me and take me on publicly. I am, and as you all know, have been for a great many years, an active trade unionist and anti fascist campaigner and this has led to my name being on the Red Watch Hit List. This is a list published by BNP and other fascist organisations which give out names and addresses and photographs of known 'reds' and who all BNP members must do everything they can to discredit in any way possible. Some people on the list have had their houses daubed with paint and excrement put through their doors and all beacause we stand up for what we believe in. I am openly campaigning to have BNP barred from being teachers in line with the bar in many other of the public services. With their views on the holocaust etc how could they teach history? Teachers shape the future which is why they want to get in. If any of you are free on 30th May and are in the Stoke area, Love Music Hate Racism are holding a rock concert, check out their website.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:53 PM

I had a old friend who couldn't stand Barack Obama and sent me all of the e-mail rumors and stories ect. That's all well and good. I've got no problem with him disliking his policies. But when he sent me nude pictures that were supposed to have been of Barack Obamas mother I thought it was the last straw. Not even the Mafia goes after someones mother. And that's from the party of "family values"?? I asked him to remove me from his mailing list and I haven't heard from him since. I won't miss him.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 02:03 PM

Fiddler,

How about posting those videos on his facebook page.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:52 PM

You did the right thing cllr- hats off to an honest Tory- as I said in another vthread, the racism, is a deliberate choice, there are several non- racist rightwing parties he could have chosen.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: fiddler
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:48 PM

Sadly it is a catter, I made a comment on their facebook page which they deleted!

And it was very benign comment.

Cllr

There are lots of us with you.

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:19 PM

Then I would show him this video of Nick Griffin denying the holocaust.

"nonsense about gas chambers"

If he still persisted with his desire stand on a BNP ticket after that then I would organize all our mutual friends to disrupt every speech he made.

Some people choose the BNP because they thin they are honestly just an ordinary caring party who are awake to problems caused by immigration that other parties are irresponsibly ignoring.

They make this choice out of ignorance.

If they carry on afterwards and choose to be associated with views like griffins as shown clearly in the videos above, then they should be treated as advocates of those views, i.e, with utmost caution and utter refusal to agree on any level with any of their "milder" views.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:10 PM

I would show him this Video of Nick Griffen speaking to supporters of David Dukes (of KKK fame) about how to make racist policies seem more politically correct.

"... Instead of 'Racial Purity' say 'Identity' ..."

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Michael
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:04 PM

And there's the risk of being tarred with the same brush.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: TheSnail
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:02 PM

Is it too late to save your friend from his own folly? Apart from their policies, behind the suits the BNP are a bunch of racist thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Gervase
Date: 20 May 09 - 12:24 PM

I think you've done the right thing, Mike. If someone has those sort of beliefs, then there can be little enough in common to justify continuing a friendship.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 May 09 - 12:13 PM

Standing with you Cllr... you know where we are.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,jeddy
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:53 AM

exactly the same as you have done. on some things there can be no compromise. i can undrestand that this situation has made you feel sad and probably betrayed. the bnp to me represent people equivelent to those who introduced apathied and need to be shuned in decent society. it is their problem and should not make you feel uncomfortable or guilty.
take care

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Emma B
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:49 AM

Sad to say Mike, however much I value friendship, I probably would do the same.

We may not always agree on our 'politics' over a glass or two of wine but I too have been active in opposing racism throughout my adult life and, like you, would feel deeply saddened and betrayed to find a friend associated with such a blatently racist organization never mind prepared to represent their repugnant views.

Subject: RE: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: GUEST,Joe P
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:46 AM

The same. I have tolerated friends with 'extreme' views, but this would be a step too far for me. I would also make sure you let them know clearly what you are doing and why.

Subject: BS: BNP: What would you do?
From: Cllr
Date: 20 May 09 - 11:36 AM

A friend of mine has decided to stand for BNP in the local elections I feel shocked and betrayed and tried to persuade them not to do so when i found out back at the end of February. It is now public knowlege as it is published on the relevent website.

I have worked for the CPS on incitement to racial hatred cases back in the nineties and despite being accused of being a rascist by simply being a Conservative but I've striven to oppose biggotry when I have come across it.

I hope i am a loyal friend to those that are close to me but this is too much. I am deeply saddend but i feel i must end my friendship with this person. I suppose the question is what would you do if you found yourself in this position?

Mike aka Cllr

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See previous thread (English Fair Fund is BNP Front ), which has been closed.
-Joe Offer-