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BS: Sexual Infidelity
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice Date: 27 Jun 09 - 05:00 PM LF you are a plonker. Please keep your flippant posts for flippant threads. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 27 Jun 09 - 05:04 PM Rats, LF. I was asleep at the wheel. Thought I had this one;>) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: gnu Date: 27 Jun 09 - 05:29 PM Janie... excellent post! Ron... "Kabekistan--that must be pretty far east in Maine." No, it's a tad north if Maine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 27 Jun 09 - 06:03 PM Good Gnu. Now, will you marry me? I'm post menopausal and a good cook;^) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: GUEST,Big Norman Voice Date: 27 Jun 09 - 06:30 PM So is he |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 27 Jun 09 - 06:36 PM Post menopausal or a good cook? Perhaps both? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: gnu Date: 27 Jun 09 - 07:27 PM Defintely both, and beyond. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: gnu Date: 27 Jun 09 - 07:38 PM Oh... ahhh... I meant by "post menopausal" that I am not into that any more. And I am celibate. Unless I win the lotto tonight. If I do, I am gonna pull a Pierre and find a breeder to squeeze out some pups in short order. I know that doesn't sound terribly romantic, or even within the loose bounds of decorum within this forum, but, if I win the lotto, I am gettin me some pups. They would be so cute... curly red hair... hair would be cool... Oh. Sorry. Marry anyone? ME??? Not likely. I barely entertain. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: meself Date: 27 Jun 09 - 07:42 PM The idea of holding elected officials - or anyone else, for that matter - to a higher standard of morality than you hold yourself to strikes me as the height - or is that depth? - of hypocrisy. Having said that - a thief may well recognize that it is not a good idea to have thieves running the country; a drunk may not want a fellow drunk at the control switch. Fine, as long as they don't get all self-righteous about it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:03 PM For myself, meself, I do not hold them to a higher standard, but I certainly hold them to the same high standard I hold for myself. I know Dani very intimately, and can also say that she lives by very high standards herself. It is not that we expect people in positions of public trust to exceed our expectations of ourselves. It is that we reasonably suppose and expect that those in positions of public trust, human as the rest of us, to be responsible with the public trust they have pursued and acheived. In that I am a social worker and psychotherapist, I am very mindful and judiciously consider the ethics involved in my work. I have a duty to strive to be impeccable in upholding the ethics of my profession and public service, and to maintain very rigorous boundaries. That is irrespective of whether I am talking about my private practice or my practice in public mental health. I live and practice in a small rural community where there is likely to be some overlap in the personal and professional. This is all the more reason that I am obligated to strive for impeccable standards and boundaries. Years before I went back to school for my master's degree to become a psychotherapist, I was still in State government and was a public servant. I have always ascribed to, and strived to live by standards that warrant the public trust. It is reasonable to expect the same of elected officials as I expect of myself. I am not a saint or a paragon of virtue, but I take my personal and professional responsibilities very seriously, and see no reason why others are incapable of the same. I don't make a judgement on the personhood of people who cheat or lie, but I do make a judgement on the behaviors., and am quite comfortable condemning those behaviors. I think condemnation and social stigma for dishonest behaviors more socially constructive than destructive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:31 PM In working with couples where infidelity has occurred, it is important to help both parties accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions and emotions. There is a difference between responsibility and blame, and it is often difficult for individuals and couples to distingiush between these two concepts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Amos Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:02 AM In adjudicating the compromise made by those who make a vow and later break it, the firt thing you have to understand is the actual dynamics in he equation. Human individual decisions run deeper than any code that can be writ or recited as a series of principles. This does not make them less valuable as principles, but of you do not have some insight into the actual pressures in play you will not understand; if you do not understand, you will not forgive; and if you do not forgive, you will not meet the person on their own ground on which the decisions are immediately and genuinely made. A wife can let her own distress produce sharp language that in turn doubles that distress in her husband; but that language can be forgotten while the force it produces goes on to create tragedy. And vice-versa. Full ownership of those things one has done is no easy challenge to throw out to someone. To place it before another require understanding what you are asking, not a superficial recitation. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: GUEST,Dani Date: 28 Jun 09 - 07:43 AM "higher standard of morality than you hold yourself" Not at all! And I hope you take my thoughts more as ponderment, and less as pronouncement. I guess what I should have referred to is the struggle that goes on in my mind when the Sanfords, or the Edwards', or the Clintons, have the media, the scrutiny, the you-and-me-over-breakfast reading their intimate emails and details. How prurient, how awful. But if you or I were to behave as they have, there would probably not be the public shaming. And if there were, I certainly would not take part. Unless we are friends-and-relations (a whole other story)truly your marriage and your bed are not my business. Nor are the private lives of public officials, except if they and to the extent that they bring shame and dishonesty to public office. An analogy I think of is driving: if you cruise through a stop sign, it'll bother me alright, but I'll probably just shake my fist and get over it. But if I see the school bus do it, I'll be on the phone so fast that bus driver's head'll spin. Know what I mean? So, no, I don't want to draw and quarter Mark Sanford, or John Edwards. But I do want to slap them hard. And, another example: I am a chef, and trained in food safety, sanitation, etc. If you cater a friend's wedding and everyone gets food poisoning.... would it be looked at the same as if I do it, even if neither of us intend for it to happen? Dani |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: meself Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:27 AM I take your poiht - but in some of these cases (and all I know about the Sanford business is what I've read in this thread), it's more like the chef is getting fired for running a red light, and the school bus driver for giving someone food poisoning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ron Davies Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:01 PM Gnu-- We learned earlier in the thread that Kabekistan is on the Appalachian Trail, and Kabekistan must be pretty far to the east. Since Maine has the easternmost part of the Trail-- (the Trail is not also in Canada, is it?--just asking)--, Kabekistan must be in Maine. But it must be in a really far eastern portion of Maine--certainly not in a part I've ever seen. I'm just trying to be logical here. (Latitude just makes it too complicated.) . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: bobad Date: 28 Jun 09 - 10:37 PM "the Trail is not also in Canada, is it?--just asking" The International Appalachian Trail 525 miles Location The 525-mile International Appalachian Trail/Sentier International des Appalaches (IAT-SIA) spans from central Maine to Cap Gaspe at the easternmost tip of the Gaspe peninsula in Quebec. "the Trail is not also in Canada, is it?--just asking" Description The International Appalachian Trail stretches from Baxter Peak on Katahdin in Maine to Cap Gaspe in eastern Quebec. While the official route starts at Abol Bridge and skirts east of Baxter Park, most hikers elect to walk through the Park, exiting the Matagammon Gate, thence eastward toward the Maine-New Brunswick line. After crossing the international boundary the trail follows the gentle curves of the Tobique River toward New Brunswick's highest peak, Mt. Carleton. Then the trail swings west into the French-speaking areas of New Brunswick before roughly following the Restigouche River and crossing into Quebec. In Quebec the trail parallels the Matapedia River along its eastern bank, then veers east, following the mountainous spine of Gaspe to Mt. Jacques Cartier, the highest peak in the region. Then the trail follows the northern coast of the Gaspe until the trail's terminus at Cap Gaspe, in Parc Forillon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 28 Jun 09 - 11:41 PM Although KAbekistan is unknown to Google, Bobad is not stringing us along. I HAD to check and make sure he was not practicing thread infidelity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: PoppaGator Date: 29 Jun 09 - 01:30 PM Hadn't heard of the International Appalachian Trail before this. It apparently lies to the north of the well-known Appalachian Trail of the US, which runs from somewhere in Maine many miles to the south/southwest, terminating in (I believe) Georgia. (That's NOT the Georgia near Anything-bekistan, that is, not the former SSR). Does the International A.T. connected directly to the larger US trail? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: gnu Date: 29 Jun 09 - 03:11 PM The Apps run through the northwestern part of New Brunswick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: gnu Date: 29 Jun 09 - 03:35 PM And it's BEAUTIFUL country... The Blue Moutains, The Christmas Moutains... Mount Carleton National Park is a treasure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ebbie Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:17 PM But does it connect to the US Appalachian Trail? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: meself Date: 29 Jun 09 - 05:24 PM Look, I know it's hard to resist the vicarious thrill of hearing about other people's hiking experiences, and fantasizing about conquering the same trails - but can we get back to talking about the dull old business of forbidden sex? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Bill D Date: 29 Jun 09 - 06:16 PM You want MORE simmering stories? John Edwards' ex-staffer who covered for him has written a book.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Stringsinger Date: 29 Jun 09 - 09:49 PM Here's my take. Politicians that don't honor contracts can't be trusted. Here's another problem. Jack Kennedy was called by those around him, "Jack the Zipper". Jackie got the house in Washington after coming to terms. Bill Clinton, a Kennedy supporter misread the public mood and the Christian Right. Almost all the Presses at one time or another had mistresses. FDR with Lucy Murphy, Ike had his, Hey hey LBJ, how many gals did you screw today? Hence, most politicians can't be trusted. That's hope you can believe in. In the meantime, some of these pols manage occasionally to do some social good. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ebbie Date: 29 Jun 09 - 10:15 PM As I recall, Stringsinger (love that name!) FDR's 'friend' was Lucy Mercer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ron Davies Date: 29 Jun 09 - 10:53 PM I'm with Ebbie and Poppagator: the burning question really is: does the International Appalachian Trail connect to the Trail in the US? And I just can't understand why Kabekistan doesn't come up on Google--Google must not be infallible after all. Amos couldn't possibly have made it up. We never do that sort of thing on Mudcat. But, after all, what other than hiking would you discuss on a sex thread? And I even did learn something from the thread--though not anything about sexual infidelity. I would guess most of us probably have a pretty good idea about that. As the little boy said: "Are these my brains?" By the way, Gov. Kaine now says: "I'm an Appalachian Trail kind of guy." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:47 AM What do Mudcat and politics have in common? Strange, (and in the case of Mudcat) sometimes wondrous morphs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ebbie Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:26 AM A morph can be most interesting, Janie. :) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: TheSnail Date: 30 Jun 09 - 04:09 AM "Sorry, I'll be hiking the Appalachian Trail". In the UK, the equivalent term is "Discussing Uganda". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:26 PM If you bloody well want to know about the International App Trail - GOOGLE it yourself! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 30 Jun 09 - 12:29 PM As for S. I:. It seems to have gotten lost on the trail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ebbie Date: 30 Jun 09 - 01:19 PM OK, OK: Evidently |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: 3refs Date: 30 Jun 09 - 01:49 PM And then there's the "other kind"! Knock, knock, could you pass me some toilet paper please!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: greg stephens Date: 30 Jun 09 - 02:55 PM I am not that into telling other people who they should or shouldn't sleep with. I am, however, pretty firmly of the belief that reading other people's love letters and then publishing them for the titillation of other smutty minded people is not the action of a gentleman, or gentlewoman. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: jeddy Date: 30 Jun 09 - 05:32 PM here here greg, that goes for that prat paul burell as well!!! the thing that does worry me about poloticians doing the dirty is, if they can lie and cheat on their wifes/ husbands, then how much easier woukd they find it to lie and cheat the public? take care all jade x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 30 Jun 09 - 06:19 PM Precisely, Jade. Though, I reckon they do find it easier to lie and cheat the public. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: jeddy Date: 30 Jun 09 - 08:04 PM i forgot that they already have over here with the expenses scandle, they still haven't been honest even when they got caught. is that still running or have we ' forgotten' that by now? take care jade x x x |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Riginslinger Date: 30 Jun 09 - 09:06 PM He ought to jest tell everybody to go fuck off and run off with the mistress. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ron Davies Date: 30 Jun 09 - 09:46 PM In the UK the equivalent term to "hiking the Appalachian Trail" in this context is "discussing Uganda"? There must be a story to this--any chance we can hear it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Maryrrf Date: 30 Jun 09 - 10:21 PM I hate the man's politics, and at first I had no sympathy for him because he had criticized other peoples indiscretions in a self righteous manner. But I really believe he fell head over heels in love and it just bowled him over. I don't think it was only about sex. I think he really was caught up in some very powerful emotions that caused him to act irrationally. In a way I think he wanted to get caught. His wife found a letter from his mistress (or to his mistress, versions differ) in a file where he had asked her to go look for something.(?!) That was how she found out, several months ago. Then he made the 'secret' trip to Argentina - he couldn't have thought he could just disappear and get away with it, at least not rationally. The emails sound very gushy and corny when published online but I believe both of the parties were sincere. It must be horribly painful to have their words dragged out in the press and hashed over. His political career, and most likely his marriage, are shot. He has publicly said that Maria is his soul mate but he's 'trying to fall back in love with his wife'. That doesn't sound very promising. Perhaps he should follow Edward VIII's example, resign as governor and be with the woman he loves. Strange how existence sometimes turns the tables on people. I do feel some sympathy for the man. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ron Davies Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:04 PM Sanford now says he "crossed lines" with other women. What the hell does that mean? This guy has a political death-wish. And now he's achieved his goal. He is now toast. Congratulations to him. The other Republicans will never sit around waiting for the death of 1,000 cuts. He will probably resign by the end of the week. As I said earlier, the only downside for those of us on the other side is that it strengthens Palin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ron Davies Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:05 PM Sounds like the Appalachian Trail has been pretty crowded. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Riginslinger Date: 30 Jun 09 - 11:36 PM "As I said earlier, the only downside for those of us on the other side is that it strengthens Palin..." If one is on the other side, I would think something that strengthened Palin would be a good thing. How much appeal would she have in a general election nation wide? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Ebbie Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:16 AM Another leap to the side: Palin has become a sticky subject in Alaska. Not only Democrats but members of her own party are fed up and getting progressively more vocal about it. In some ways it has become a running joke. At the moment, in addition to the bigger fights she is waging on every hand, she is apparently going to be a no-show at the Capital city's ceremonies replicating the activities of July 4 fifty years ago. Alaska had just been named a state and this was the first time that the 49-star flag had been hoisted. The governor at the time was here and spoke, other dignitaries spoke, a full court of queen and princesses was on hand as well as a crowd of several thousand and I don't know what all else. This time, fifty years later, Governor Palin has refused to commit herself as to whether she will be present nor has she named someone to represent her. The Lieutenant Governor has already officially said that he can't be present. Palin has political enemies here and a good many of the private sector is no longer that fond of her either. Neither am I but I do want her here- as the governor of the state it is the proper thing to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Janie Date: 01 Jul 09 - 02:35 AM Maryrrf, While I can share your empathy at a personal level - we are all fallible human beings- I disagree with your assertion that his (or anyone else's) emotions cause us to act in certain ways. I subscribe to the notion that as an adult human being, I am responsible for my thoughts, emotions and behaviors, and my capacity to make choices. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: TheSnail Date: 01 Jul 09 - 07:00 AM Ron Davies ""discussing Uganda"? There must be a story to this--any chance we can hear it?" It was popularised by the British satirical magazine Private Eye. I can't remember the full story or the names of the protagonists but I think there was a UN conference where a politician (possibly Ugandan) and a journalist disappeared for a while and then reappeared looking a bit flushed and tousled. When asked what they had been doing, they replied "Discussing Ugandan affairs." PE also gave us "Tired and emotional" = drunk. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Maryrrf Date: 01 Jul 09 - 08:25 AM I agree to an extent, Janie. Ultimately however strong our emotions might be, we're responsible for our actions. But emotions can be very powerful. In some of the spiritual texts the emotions are likened to water, which can be calm or can turn into a raging, stormy sea and swamp a person's psyche. We're supposed to be able to rule our emotions with our minds, but sometimes we don't succeed. The thing that struck me about Sanford is that everyone described him as very cold - even 'asexual' and more interested in graphs and charts, logic, etc. He may be someone who ignored his emotional side for many years and when he did get in touch with it (and Maria seems to have been the trigger that unleashed it) it overwhelmed him. NOf course he and only he is responsible for his actions, and he'll have to live with the consequences. The story would actually make an interesting novel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Stringsinger Date: 01 Jul 09 - 10:05 AM Hey Janie, I'm on your side. If you make your bed funny you'll Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: Dorothy Parshall Date: 01 Jul 09 - 04:14 PM Janie reminds me of acerbic remark I once made to a young woman who said, "I cain't help the way I feel." "But you can certainly help what you do about it!" This Marie may have unlocked the door to his emotions but neither one of them needed to walk through. Pity the wife who put up with him all those years and never found the key. Or the other way around? I still believe the lie is more damning than the sex. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Sexual Infidelity From: freda underhill Date: 01 Jul 09 - 09:23 PM Religion is used to divide the righteous "us" from the evil "them", and that evil can be political, financial or moral. And moral condemnation, sex scandals in politics, just divert attention from the decisions in parliament. Politicians have so much power, and they get it by persuading the elctorate that they are trustworthy. So many buy into the game of claiming to be even MORE trustworthy. and for religious people, of whatever faith, that ofetn involves fingerpointing at the less holy. But up there in the halls of power, a cocktail of long hours and separation from family, mixed with adoring supporters addicted to the powerful, makes for a heady mix. Are Christian politicians lining up to denounce those who fall off the path of chastity the same ones who queued up to support George Bush's war in Iraq? Which is the greater desecration? Someone can be very good at their job, but not personally perfect. Should they have to be? This sort of public confession has been popularised by talk shows, and follows intrusive media comment. |
