BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?

Subject: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 02:05 PM

I posted this about an hour ago with some (I thought, related) WAV attached, but it was moved to "WalkaboutsVerse Anew" (BS), so I'll try again (without the WAV), in case anyone is interested...

Just caught a bit of the World Championships, and (as well as Phelps being beaten in the 200m) noticed the fuss over swimsuits: surely, apart from covering their reproductive bits, they can wear whatever they want, yes..?

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 02:15 PM

There is some dispute over whether it is 'fair' to have suits that obviously help, when the suits are VERY expensive, and not available to everyone.
(They banned one type of race car years ago, when it 'almost' won the Indy 500 and would have made it impossible for other engines to compete.)

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 02:27 PM

Thanks, Bill - that makes sense, and relates to formula 1 as well, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: JHW
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:13 PM

I've never worn my swimsuit at the WC

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:39 PM

I think the twin propellors rivetted to the butts of the swim suits were sort of a tip off that something wasn't quite kosher.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:47 PM

That's a good analogy Bill because in racing, at every level and in every sanctioning body, that is exactly what happens. You're referring to the turbine car debacle but its just one of many in Indy cars and NASCAR has a weekly rule change anymore. Wav, F1 isn't even worth discussing becaise no one can can decide whether they want good racing or hi-tech or even who they should allow in their sky castle.

But if you want to read the greatest in beneficial rule changing, try a history of the America's Cup.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 03:57 PM

Maybe the Ancient Greeks had it right - having all the competitors bare-naked would avoid this kind of fuss, and this kind of cheating.

How do the poor bastards in these fetishistic suits manage if they need to to go the loo? I mean, look at this picture. It's apparently supposed to take 45 minutes to get into them.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:06 PM

Right... no more swimsuits... it's only fair.

Of course, there will be calls to have all circumsized males penalized, handicapped, if you will, depending upon measurements and a determination of the drag reduction due to less foreskin. However, I believe that such would be a retraction in rules, given that any male can streamline his parts as he sees fit if it would help him win a pic on a Wheaties box.

Gold medals do not come without sacrifice and committment.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:20 PM

Kevin, you said "It's apparently supposed to take 45 minutes to get into them".

I bet it doesn't take as long to get out of them. Not if you are really in a hurry.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 04:31 PM

"want good racing or hi-tech " trouble is in auto racing, they have learned 'how' to go much faster than one can safely go around the turns. In the old days, when getting a bit more speed helped you win, it was easier to design both cars & rules.

In swimming, we seem to not be to that limit yet. Perhaps we will need pro & amateur categories, where sponsors can outfit their teams with the highest tech suits, and damn the cost.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:21 PM

What's significant difference is there between performance enhancing suits and performance enhancing drugs? Aside from damage they may do to themselves, which isn't the basic reason the drugs are seen as cheating.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:23 PM

Good point.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Penny S.
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:26 PM

I think it was the comparison with drugs that was the point in the articles I saw.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:29 PM

Gnu's in rare/raw form on this one!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:46 PM

From the look of the suits they're damaging themselves getting into them.

I think ALL of the events should be done naked. Including team bobsledding.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 05:58 PM

Doubles Luge would be more interesting Rap.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 06:43 PM

LOLOL...I'd pay to just watch the start...

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:31 PM

What did soldiers do when they had to go to the loo after they had been riveted into their armor?

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:36 PM

They had, if you'll look closely, armored codpieces and an armored "flap" arrangement. Pity the poor squires who had to clean the rust off...and the knight who got parts caught in the gears (so to speak).

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: frogprince
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:51 AM

Swimsuits are about second to nuclear armaments in the list of history's dumb ideas, anyhow. Clothes to go swimming in?? Then again, if they had never been invented, most of the people living off nudie magazines and websites would have been poo out of luck. There would probably still be a market for hardcore porn, but little or none to exploit simple nudity.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:56 PM

Phelps just made some amends by winning the 200m butterfly in record time - thriftily, with only his legs and reproductive bits covered!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:43 PM

Apparently the new suits have trapped air (where?) which increases the buoyancy, and so reduces the amount of body in the water and so drag. I'm not sure what compressing the muscles is supposed to do, seems counter intuitive, but the shape is more streamlined. The surface is also smoother, reducing drag.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:55 PM

Ah, so the floaty is back...no wonder they take so long to dress then, Penny - they have to get their foot-pumps out, too!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:10 PM

The principle involved goes beyond swimwear.

Maybe there is a case for allowing technical development in motor racing, on the ground that this can lead to useful advances for ordinary cars. But outside of this I can't see any justification at all for stuff like hi-tech tennis racquets and so forth.   The competition is supposed to be between people, not between manufaterers. Equipment should be standardised to ensure that all competitors are on an even playing field so far as that stuff is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:41 PM

Take swimwear off to go to the WC? Now, there's a novel idea. I don't even get out of the pool...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 05:38 PM

WAV and Penny, that makes sense. Then, as butterfly strokers have more of their upper body out of water (less drag) more of the time, the best man would win.

I lost interest in athletics when I read that one olympic team had more medical personnel than athletes. Long time ago, now.

The business at the Indy 500 was predated when Lotus entered a car based on Formula 1 experience, which outclassed the then front-engined Offenhouser(?)-powered local cars. This from a vague memory.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 06:36 PM

I thought this was about wearing them in the *water closet?!*

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 06:37 PM

Gurney, let me assure you that "competitive cheating" in auto racing began long before Loyus and Brabham and likely with the first race having rules to assure the even competition Mac mentions.   From then on sanctioning bodies have tried in vain to write rulebooks and racers have looked for any wiggle room they could exploit.

The present day NASCAR rule book contains a dilly though. Nearly every penalty that NASCAR hands down mentions section 12-4-A of the NASCAR rule book. That NASCAR rule covers "actions detrimental to stock car racing." NASCAR applies it freely from to everything from illegal suspension parts to fighting.   What actions are these? Why they're whatever NASCAR deems them to be at any given moment.

Probably the most famous cheat of all time was at Daytona where NASCAR measured the size and volume of the fuel cell in a car built by the legendary "creative genius" Smokey Yunick. Smokey had a shop in Daytona about 10 miles across town from the Speedway called the "Best Damn Garage in Town."   After arguing with NASCAR officials about their measurments, the officials had removed the offending cell for confiscation and further testing. Smokey just slid in through the window, started the car, and drove it across town to his shop with the fuel cell sitting at the judge's feet!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 08:15 PM

Spaw, I didn't think Lotus actually cheated. Being from sports and F1 racing, they see technological advancement as desirable. They went against what was basically developed-but-outdated (well, to Lotus, anyway)technology from the viewpoint of the then-latest F1 design thinking. Took the good ol' boys a while to catch up.
Another story now. Doubt if anyone will ever do that again.

My father worked in the Coventry Climax racing shop at the time their engines were the go for F1.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 08:25 PM

I didn't mean to imply anything about the great Colin Chapman who was a true genius and a hero of mine......even had a shop back in the early '70's that specialized in his street cars. What else Chapman had was one of those "unfair advantage" things that no one else had named Jimmy.

VERY cool about your Dad!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Gurney
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:46 PM

I remember reading CC's autobiography about 40 years ago. When he wanted a Differential ratio between two ratios that were available, he forced together the pinion of one with the crownwheel of the other, and ran it in on Brasso(abrasive polish.) This was in the early days of Lotus 7s when he built 'specials,' as they were called.

Strange what sticks in your head.

Generally nothing useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 01:46 PM

Joking apart, there's a heck of a lot of records being broken in Rome..?

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 02:19 PM

The general consensus is that the new suit will be banned from official competition. Maybe 'because' they are not widely available.

They might be 'standard' someday, just as fiberglass vaulting poles replaced cane poles.. (and the record vaults went from 15'7" to over 20'.)

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 03:29 PM

BAMBOO? How the hell old are you Man????

LOL......Even when I was in school they were aluminum but my school still had a couple of wood poles although neither was bamboo! I think by the time of the Helsinki Olympics most poles were aluminum. I think the fibergals came in the 60's as I recall Bob Seagren having great success with them. They truly did jump the record and today's carbon fiber poles gave it another 2 foot or so.

Spaw (Olympic Junkie)

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 04:51 PM

When I was young, I read about Cornelias Warmerdam & Rev. Bob Richards, 'Spaw. I am OLD.....(that looks like a bamboo pole in the pic, to me)

and my father once held his county's pole vault record, and he won the vault at CMTC training camp in 1927. 10'6", I believe.. *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:47 PM

LOL @ Bill.....Warnerdam was before my time but you couldn't eat breakast if you were a kid in the 50's without Ol' Bob looking at you from the Wheaties box. Plus he was religious and "inspirational" and only slightly to the right of Genghis Khan.......all things that made him a hero in the small town America of the times........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Gurney
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 12:28 AM

Good photo of a new suit in today's paper. It had split right down the back and under.


Just a shame the swimmer was a bloke.....
What he had was a view that was widely available!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:08 PM

Interesting that our Rebecca has proved that she is one of the best female swimmers of all time in a normal swimsuit!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: frogprince
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

I heard Rev. Richardson speak at a large Methodist youth rally when I was in my late teens. Ophelia "Minnie Pearl" Cannon spoke at the same event. I don't remember anything about his politics or theology apart from that. All I can retrieve from his speech now is that he credited Jesus, Mahatma Ghandi, and someone from one of the other major world religions as the finest examples in history. In that particular respect, he by no means came accross as among the most narrow minded conservative preachers I've known. Not meaning to rush to his defence; if I'd had any political perspective then, remembered more of his speech, or had heard more extensively from him, I might remember him a lot differently.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 05:48 PM

They should do as the Greeks did in ancient times in their athletic games and compete in the nude. That would make it absolutely fair and equal for everyone. It didn't reduce the Greeks to hysteria and outrage to see a few nude people engaging in competitive sports, so why should it bother us?

This would, of course, require some adjustment in present social attitudes. That's the downside. The upside is that the swimsuit problem would be over for good.

BAD news for the high tech swimsuit companies, though! I wonder if they'll send someone to do a hit on me now...

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: frogprince
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:19 PM

If it weren't for bathing suits, the average cost of clothing per yard would fall about 80%. The only other cloth that costs that much per acre is in designer gowns that most people never even dream of owning.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: frogprince
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 06:24 PM

As a long time AANR member, I wouldn't be in the least freaked out or driven out of control by watching a nude athletic competition. As an old goat, however, I would probably be enjoying the sight of that many trim young women just enough that I might not really notice who was winning.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 05:38 AM

"BAD news for the high tech swimsuit companies, though! I wonder if they'll send someone to do a hit on me now..." (LH)...you may, then, need some chain mail over your birthday suit!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM

They have to get past Chongo first, and that ain't easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 05:25 AM

Don't know of Chongo, LH, but Mr. Phelps certainly made a strong finish to win the 100m butterly, in under 50 seconds, yesterday.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 02:13 PM

I've just heard the suits were (because they are to be banned) polyurethane - I've moulded with that stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 03:38 PM

It's amazing how many world records were broken at the Swimming World Championships! Dozens? The World Athletic Championships begin in a couple of weeks, and I would be surprised if even five world records were broken. Indeed, every world record in the men's events from 400m to two miles are all over ten years'old. How old is the longest standing swimming world record?

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 04:30 PM

What about regulation swimsuits, in which everyone is wearing the same? I had to learn in a regulation woollen Jantzen cozzy, which had so much drag it would have slowed people down, but I don't know whose regs it was or for what.

It certainly wasn't hard to get out of. Full of water, gravity could handle that, before I reached the changing room if I wasn't careful.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 05:01 PM

It has been suggested by the main competitor of Phelps. He even offered to buy Phelps one like his so that Phelps would not have any excuse if Phelps lost.

The DRAMA!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 05:14 PM

Further to Tunesmith's post, I actually emailed the Eurosport tv team re. the longest standing swimming world record, and just tried google - to no avail (although Eurosport did mention that the long-standing East German records were now all broken)..?..anyone know...

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: gnu
Date: 02 Aug 09 - 07:18 PM

No matter!

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 05:36 AM

"I had to learn in a regulation woollen Jantzen cozzy, which had so much drag it would have slowed people down, but I don't know whose regs it was or for what.

It certainly wasn't hard to get out of. Full of water, gravity could handle that, before I reached the changing room if I wasn't careful."

Penny

I've heard that in Rio they refer to the local bikinis-of-choice as "dental floss" - perhaps partly solving the drag problem..?

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: frogprince
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM

For sure; it should be no problem at all identifying any guy who tried to dress in drag wearing a brazilian bikini.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 10:45 AM

The longest standing male swimming record is the 1500m freestyle set in 2001. It just survived being broken at the weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Swimsuits at WCs - what's the fuss?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 03 Aug 09 - 12:33 PM

Thanks, TS; and, at the other extreme, I think I'll try and post my (I'm-no-fish) swimming poem cum song, again...

Poem 5 of 230: STATE TO STATE

(TUNE:

C F G F
C F G F
C F G F
C F G F
F G F C
F G F C
F G F C
C F F F)

From Sydney Town,
    In uni. break,
I drove out west
    To earnings make
Onion picking,
    On the fields
Of Echuca,
    That year's yields.

                                  After day's work,
                                     From Y.H.A.,
                                  A group of us
                                     Would not delay
                                  To walk on down
                                     To the dirt rim
                                  Of the Murray,
                                     For a cool swim.

On one such day,
    I do declare,
Some three of us
    Had a big dare
To swim across,
    From state to state,
The wide Murray -
    I took the bait.

                                  Yes, foolishly,
                                     I took the bait -
                                  A choice that I
                                     Would come to hate,
                                  For I almost
                                     Did drown that date,
                                  Making the swim
                                     From state to state.

From http://blogs.myspace.com/walkaboutsverse (e-scroll)
Or http://walkaboutsverse.sitegoz.com (e-book)
(C) David Franks 2003