Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:27 PM

I was at the Folk Against Fascism launch and found it inspiring!Thanks to all the musicians and others involved. Also I was very pleased that it was in the official programme so was well publicised!

As for Steve Harris and his comments above I would say ....you need to get out a bit more ...read up on the BNP and its roots in the vile and thuggish National Front...while you are at it find out about the earlier British Fascists like Oswald Moseley and his blackshirts.
While you are delving into that history read up [or even talk to eyewitnesses ] about the anti fascist struggles in the past.

The anti fascist slogan "Never Again!" is still as relevant as ever...no platform for nazis means on the cultural as well as the political stage!
ifor

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:28 PM

He claims to not support the BNP but is against the people who oppose them and are willing to get of their arses and do something

Ah, if you are not for us, you are against us? Good to see you know traditional arguments :-)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:34 PM

Let those who prefer the safe middle ground stay there, I quite honestly have no time for them, there is much important work to be done

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folknacious
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 04:42 PM

Let those who prefer the safe middle ground stay there, I quite honestly have no time for them, there is much important work to be done

That's a very civilised way of putting it, well done. I'd have simply gone for the righteously angry "f***off and die" myself ;-)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: treewind
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:35 PM

Perhaps Steve Harris will understand better when hears that a new English ceilidh dance series has started up somewhere, turns up enthusiastically at the first night in his best dancing shoes and discovers it's being used as a propaganda and recruitment platform and run by the BNP. It could so easily happen - the strictly "English" focus of E-Ceilidh is exactly the sort of mindset that the BNP would like to divert to their own purposes.

They are already talking about running St George's day events, for example. Even just finding their leaflets at an established folk dance event or festival would be bad enough.

Better to be aware of the possibility and ready when it happens, and not a bad idea also (a) to make sure others are aware of it and (b) to make sure, if you are an organiser or performer, that you don't get tarred with the same brush. (I've seen it hinted at before on Mudcat: "English Music" = nationalist = racist...)

And Steve - these guys are ambitious and ruthless and there is no doubt about what they are up to. It really is not a time for sitting on the fence and saying things like "prove it" or "maybe".

I hate to get involved with politics, but I feel I'm having to defend my territory - and that's as a folk music performer, English music enthusiast and editor of a regional folk magazine.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 05:58 PM

There was an article in the Guardian this last week (I know...sometimes I glance at the Daily Mail while passing it in Waitrose though...!) about celebrities getting involved in politics and being listened to by dint of their fame alone. Why again is Angelina Jolie an ambassador for peace? I shse a particularly good speaker or qualified in any way other than being vaguely against something or other? Who knows?
I have often wished that musicians (BoNo????) would keep their mouths shut. She says. Types!!! Types with mouth closed!!!
It is enough for me to make up the numbers of people who are simply saying "no" when we have only an hour and a stage full of enthusiastic participants. You would have thought that one hour was enough out of anyone's time to give us a chance to have our little sit-in. You walked out????? Nice show of support for the cause! I do hope you explained to the audience and the people outside why as you left...
x e

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:37 PM

People need to get out on the streets, campaign against them in public, attend their election meetings and ask awkward questions.

If you are going to do as you suggest and you go along to a BNP election meeting and ask awkward questions can I suggest you take out good health insurance? Especially dental insurance.

And people are converging on Codnor this weekend to do exactly as you suggest.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:38 PM

But if you go back to Steve Harris's original post, what he was complaining about was that no one had explained what "the cause" is. Why should you expect people to stick around if you haven't done enough to grab their attention?

Not all folkies are on Mudcat or indeed any of the other folk-related forums. Not all folkies read the Guardian, believe it or not. At least one person at the event apparently did not know what it was all about, and didn't get it explained to him, so he left. Possibly others did too.

While everyone's patting themselves on the back about what a great event it was (and no doubt it was) it doesn't seem to have been 100% successful in communicating its message.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:40 PM

"we don't expect much better from somebody apparently in a silly country."

Bit of a racist remark Folknacious, maybe you're on the wrong team mate

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:54 PM

I do hope you explained to the audience and the people outside why as you left...

You seem to be saying that I should have shouted out that I was leaving and why????

I did the more usual thing of waiting for a gap between sonngs and leaving as quietly as possible.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 06:56 PM

But if you go back to Steve Harris's original post, what he was complaining about was that no one had explained what "the cause" is. Why should you expect people to stick around if you haven't done enough to grab their attention?

Let me get this correct in my own mind. The slogan "Folk Against Fascism Launch" did not explain what the event was about? A long line of famous folk performers giving their services for an hour for a cause is not enough to grab people's attention - at a folk festival?

And then Steve leaves early and complains that the facts were not explained?

Amazing it was good enough to attract the attention of Radio Four and its prestigious evening news programme but not good enough for Steve.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:03 PM

Here's an old (miss) quote that I have been forced to use too many times before:
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing."
...which is why these racist thugs have been democratically elected. And if we're going to deal with this democratically, an awful lot of people are going to have to take their arses down from the nice comfortable fence. I personally doubt whether the so-called folk community has enough clout to influence this directly, but in the words of the much-loved Ian Campbell, (your dad knew him) "by christ we'll have to try." I believe that this, above or below the line, is an appropriate forum, if only to examine our own thoughts.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:20 PM

And Steve - these guys are ambitious and ruthless and there is no doubt about what they are up to. It really is not a time for sitting on the fence and saying things like "prove it" or "maybe".

I find that statement quite terrifying - but perhaps not for the same reasons as you do :-(

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:23 PM

Page 28, under the heading "St George's Day"

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:36 PM

Amazing it was good enough to attract the attention of Radio Four and its prestigious evening news programme but not good enough for Steve

Ding! Of course! It was a "Media Event" and doubtless the BBC were properly briefed.

I was daft enough to think it was intended to inform the folk public.

Oops!

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Howard Jones
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:56 PM

Folkiedave wrote: "The slogan "Folk Against Fascism Launch" did not explain what the event was about?"

Not on its own, no it doesn't. It doesn't explain why folk should against fascism - or rather (since that's obvious) what is happening now to cause this movement to be launched? If you've been following this on Mudcat, or Facebook or elsewhere, you may know the background. If you don't, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to expect it to be explained at the event. If no one gets around to doing that until at least a third of the way through, is it surprising that some people will lose interest beforehand?

"A long line of famous folk performers giving their services for an hour for a cause is not enough to grab people's attention - at a folk festival?"

It clearly grabbed Steve's attention enough to get him to go along, what it failed to do was to keep it once he got there.

Look, this isn't an attack on FaF (which I support) or the launch event. It's feedback that the event did not succeed in getting its message across quite as well as it might have done. Rather than attacking Steve, you might like to think about how the next event can be made even better and more effective.

No doubt Radio 4 were given a comprehensive media release to help them understand why the launch was taking place.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 07:57 PM

As I said earlier, there was a "talkie bit" about halfway through the event. Surely half an hour isn't all that long to wait if you are genuinely interested in finding out what something is all about. Steve Harris chose to leave, and then moaned that the point of the project wasn't explained to him. Howard J suggested that maybe he wasn't alone. Well, I was watching the event from all sides, both backstage and from the auditorium. I watched the audience grow, not shrink, as the event progressed, till about halfway through, the Ham was nearly full.

Steve, if you want to know what the project is about, look on the Facebook page. Read one of the leaflets that was about at the event (you did pick one up, didn't you?) Listen to the excellent programme that was made for Radio 4. Read the article from the BBC website. The message is perfectly clear for anyone who actually wants to hear it, and isn't simply interested in drawing attention to themselves through onanistic point-scoring on an internet messageboard.

Now then, can we please get back to the actual topic? I started this thread to give people access to the various links I posted in the OP, and also to make them aware of the plans for FAF week next year. If this interests you, please participate in the discussion. If not, please go and jump on some other Mudcat hobbyhorse (christ knows there are enough of them). Cheers.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 08:01 PM

"No doubt Radio 4 were given a comprehensive media release to help them understand why the launch was taking place."

No, someone from Radio 4 read and joined the Facebook site. That's where their involvement stemmed from. They had access to the same information as the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 11 Aug 09 - 10:06 PM

.....pickin on my newspaper....mutter mutter....
An hour was nothing out of my life. Twenty minutes, even less. And it was a bloody nice concert, even if I didn't sing my best. I don't understand what the problem is. I am not going to stand up and tell someone else why they should believe in something, why I'm right. I would expect someone walking out of a concert to be either having a rubbish time as far as the music is concerned or against the cause wholesale: I saw the audience as a show of numbers for a cause, not as an audience in this context. That's the way I work. It said nowhere in the programme that it was a lecture. On the other hand, there was lots of information around the immediate location and elsewhere and a small speech less than halfway through, and a load of good music.
I'm sorry you didn't get it Steve, we totally failed you. Without irony. Please let us know how we can get through to people like yourself in the future.
x e

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,MtheGM
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:59 AM

Think it worth remarking here something I have already mentioned on this site, on the Anti-Semitism thread - & also relates to the YouTube thread: Googling military marches the other day, I was amazed to find that a few mouseclix on RelatedVideosfrom The Old Grenadier played by the Scots Guards brought me to the Afrika Corps & Waffen SS Marches, complete with footage of Der Fuhrer & his acolytes taking the salute; & a few more bring one a veritable industrial·production plethora of Hitler-tributes, WhitePower propaganda vids, & god·knows what-all. Now, should we be campaigning to get these removed from YouTube, or do the principles of FreeSpeech & FreedomOfAccess take precedence here? What do Catters think?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:21 AM

I think Guest MtheGM should keep to the point and start another thread on this entirely unrelated subject.

****************

In just a few weeks before the launch, over 4,000 people publicly committed themselves to the ethos behind FAF. Obviously not all, myself included, were able to be in Sidmouth but we are doing stuff like picketting the BNP's vile "family picnic" this Saturday and preparing for the FAF week of events from St George's to May Day next year.

How dare John McKenzie dismiss this as a "silly group"? By doing so he is promoting the view from his fence of English music becoming as desecrated as German trad which dare not poke its nose out of university libraries because of lingering taints of 1930s nazism. Has he (or Listmeister Harris for that matter) tried to promote indigenous trad music in that country but been unsuccessful in getting them to perform anything much other than The Happy Wanderer (or Wild Rover)?

The announcement of a launch for FAF could scarcely be more self-explanatory, even for anyone who is not a Facebook user. To claim repeatedly not to know what it is about is tantamount to supporting the misuse of artists' recorded material for a purpose which they wholeheartedly do not endorse. Simples.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:26 AM

"At the launch, we talked about FAF Week, which will take place from 23 April (St George's Day) through 2 May (okay, slightly more than a week, but it means we can have two full weekends of activity!) We hope to hold a big, high- profile national event during this time"

There has previously been a large scale event musical event during that late April time frame, which is the Greater London Authority organised Folk Concert in Trafalgar Square. Might be worth FAF contacting Boris Johnson and seeing if he would support giving that event a FAF theme. It is certainly high profile. Shiver my timbers! Billy Bragg and Boris sharing the same stage. There's a thought.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:40 AM

Reading much of the above, I can only guess how many people have not heard the following, believed to have been written by the German Pastor Martin Niemöller?

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

Believe it or not, English fascists tried to hi-jack the English Morris movement in the 1930's (something that C# House is not especially proud of!)

I recently wrote a letter to Musical Traditions on the threat of the Far Right. As I said there, quoting someone else, "We don't need new songs. Only the guts to sing the old ones" - just like Woody Guthrie & Peter Seeger did.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:04 AM

It seems to me that this subject falls into two parts; one is that an anti-fascist event was poorly organised, the other is that folkies shouldn't be singing political songs at all.
One (if it is true) can be sorted out with a little planning, the other is reactionary rubbish.
The first documented English political song was written in 1206 (in Latin – about King John) and politics has been a part of our cuture ever since; I'd have thought it was a little late to start complaining of the fact now.
Folk music has a track record to be proud of when it comes to campaigning against injustices and the improvement of the human condition; workers rights, Civil Rights, Peace, anti nuclear, anti-Apartheid, anti-fascism, third-world poverty, Viet Nam, the womens movement……. Some of us were there with our songs and music and were pleased to be. In my experience, nobody was ever forced to take part; they could sit on the sidelines and watch if they wished – and they still can. But nobody can tell us what and where and why to sing.
There is nothing complicated and in need of explanation regarding the rise of fascism in Europe today.
A bunch of right-wing thugs have taken the safety-pins out of their noses, covered up their swastika tattoos, grown their hair, put on suits and, thanks to the state of the economy, have made a few gains in local elections. Now they appear to be turning their attention to our music.
There are enough examples to be had of the thuggish intentions of these people; look at their past behaviour (Auschwitz wouldn't be a bad place to start), or the race riots and racist demonstrations that have shamed Britain, or the recent fire bombings and terrorising of immigrants in the North of Ireland or the Travellers elsewhere…
Look at their political pronouncements; the holocaust didn't happen, immigrants (and those of immigrant origin) should be repatriated, forcibly if necessary, those without the necessary paperwork should be cast adrift in open boats - men, women, children (it's beyond my understanding how people who publicly incite to murder and hatred are allowed to stand for election - but that's the establishment for you!). None of this is written into their manifesto maybe, but it's part of their twisted attitude to humanity all the same. What's to explain…. they're fascists, they're thugs and they're here!
Those who are happy to sit on their hands and do nothing are free to, but please don't interfere with those who care enough to become involved. If you don't want to be part of the solution, don't be part of the problem
Good luck to F.A.F.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,MtheGM
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:19 AM

Sorry, Borchester Echo; but I still think my observations about YouTube were well to the point on what purports to be a FolkAgainstFascism thread. Got out of bed the wrong side, did we?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:32 AM

Guest MtheGM's observations about YouTube content are perfectly valid but have nothing to do with artists taking a stand over hijacking of their material and misrepresentation of their personal opposition to BNP fascism.

FAF has specific, focussed aims and it is unhelpful to seek to diversify it into addressing every ill in musical history.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:44 AM

Not on its own, no it doesn't. It doesn't explain why folk should against fascism - or rather (since that's obvious) what is happening now to cause this movement to be launched?

Clearly you missed he elections of former National Front member Andrew Brons and Nick Griffin.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 04:46 AM

I would argue that the event was quite well organised - the response of the one attender who has expressed a negative view here runs contrary to the buzz, and the rather overwhelming response, in the Ham bar immediately following the event. I have to confess, when Paul told me how he was thinking of running the concert, it was not what I had envisioned: I thought it would be more talk and less music. However, the thing that convinced me that his approach was the right one was that when we started, the venue was a little over half full; half an hour later, the audience had grown substantially. Is that because people were drawn in by the worthiness of the message? I am more inclined to think it was because they heard some brilliant music from outside, peeped in and saw an amazing lineup of artists on the stage, and wandered in to hear more. Hopefully those people will also then have heard the message behind the music (expressed eloquently in their introductions by all the artists, but Steve Knightley and Dogan Mehmet in particular) or would have heard the speechy bit in the middle; hopefully they picked up a badge or a sticker or, more importantly, a leaflet; and maybe the format we chose meant we weren't just preaching to the converted, but managed to reach some new people.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Mrs_Annie
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:32 AM

I have to say I went because I knew all about the cause and wanted to support it. I very much enjoyed the music. Joan's speech was very very good, maybe it could've been a bit sooner in the hour, but most of us were happy to wait for it and listen to what the musicians had to say.

And about the BNP - as my husband keeps saying - "Billy Bragg has been telling us for YEARS this is going to happen" now people are finally taking notice - well done.
(on FB this morning I saw a picture of BB in a FaF t-shirt - if it's good enough for him.............)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:39 AM

Oops, sorry Diane, I forgot; it's your job to rubbish people's posts on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: GUEST,Captain Jack Sparrow
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 05:40 AM

There are folk musicians who, as they have fallen out of love with New Labour, have taken to giving a message at their gigs that not voting is the right thing to do to express that disillusionment. Whether folk persons make up enough of the electorate for that to matter or not, it does not set a good example, is not at all clever, and just plays to the BNP's tactics.

So, I was relieved to hear much of what was said at the Sidmouth event and that certain of those musicians have now woken up and had a bit of a conversion. The mix of song and talk was probably right. People react badly when they get overly lectured-to at music events, especially when the lecturing is coming from the newly converted.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:01 AM

i wish i had been there at the launch, it sounds like you had a fab time. SINCE fAF is all about the BNP trying to take our music away from us, it seems only right that that launch should concentrate on the music side of it.

a sort of... did you enjoy that? do you want the BNP to gain control of it?... no??? then help us stop them.

john,
you are entitled to think what you want, and i hear you that jioning a group and then doing nothing is not worth anything, but for us poor sods who haven't been able to do anything yet, it is somewhat patronising to say we never will. even displaying stickers and wearing t shirts help. i don't have a printer so i cannot download any. so i will just have to wait, which by the way i am not very good at. i can't wait to show my support and contribute to the fight.

you may not agree with how the group is going about it, but surely you cannot argue the cause? maybe you have been in a bad mood for a few days and are just looking for excuses to sound off?

anyway, take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:04 AM

Wasn't there. Didn't see it, but what else do people expect from a launch but a few songs and few words to rally the folks? If you want a detailed argument about the evils of fascism I've got six million of them.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:14 AM

Oh I agree with the ends Jeddy, just the means I quibble with.
We get them up here too now, so it's not just England that suffers from their hideous activities.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:18 AM

"Oops, sorry Diane, I forgot; it's your job to rubbish people's posts on Mudcat."
And it seems to be some people's jobs to act as an apologist (or at least a diversionist) for the BNP
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: jeddy
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:20 AM

well john,
if you have other suggestions of how mostly peaceful musicians can make their point, we would love to hear them and maybe we could incorperate them into the mix? we cannot have too many ideas of how to fight them. this is a great start and i hope that people will continue to think of more wonderful ways we can do more.

gotta go as we are looking at little sisters first reanted house away from parents.

take care all

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folknacious
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:36 AM

Oops, sorry Diane, I forgot; it's your job to rubbish people's posts on Mudcat.

Looks like she's heading for involuntary redundancy, since the noble art of opening one's mouth, putting both feet in it and then pulling the trigger seems to a required skill for quite a few people on here.

And what IS this "Steve Harris"? Some of you seem to know, but I obviously move in the wrong circles! ;-)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:42 AM

"we don't expect much better from somebody apparently in a silly country."

How true how true :)

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:43 AM

Listmeister @ eceilidh

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Folknacious
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 06:55 AM

Listmeister @ eceilidh

Ah, that explains the e-celidh bit of "Mud-e-ceilidh"!

The logo does give one a bit of a start, and the description does sound a mite, er, pedantic, authoritarian. I'm beginning to get the picture. Does he have a beard and a big wooden sword?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:41 AM

When will the teeshirts be available in XXXL? Enquiring beer-bellies want to know.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: treewind
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 07:47 AM

"Does he have a beard and a big wooden sword?"
I think it's fair to say Steve is only interested in English ceilidh, not in any other kinds of dancing and especially in this context not any kind of song. I suspect, therefore, he may have found it hard to sit though 20 minutes of song performance, never mind how who and how good it was. Some of the social dance diehards would have a similar view - they really aren't there for song events.

For the same reason, I suspect that if all the talking part had happened first, he would have left as soon as the music started, though at least he'd have then known what the campaign was about.

That's not intended as a criticism of the way the concert was organised, just a possible explanation of how things happened the way they did.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 08:14 AM

"Folk music has a track record to be proud of when it comes to campaigning against injustices and the improvement of the human condition; workers rights, Civil Rights, Peace, anti nuclear, anti-Apartheid, anti-fascism, third-world poverty, Viet Nam, the womens movement……. Some of us were there with our songs and music and were pleased to be. In my experience, nobody was ever forced to take part; they could sit on the sidelines and watch if they wished – and they still can. But nobody can tell us what and where and why to sing."

Spot on, Jim. If people don't like what FAF is doing, don't join in, but don't rubbish those who haven't got their heads in the sand.


"Oh I agree with the ends Jeddy, just the means I quibble with."

Be interested to hear some positive suggestions as to the right means from you, John.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:06 PM

Slightly off topic, or maybe not, all things considered, I'm wondering what the BNP's policy is on this:
Tens of millions of ladybirds have swarmed into the UK in a mass insect invasion

illegal immigration? *LOL*

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:25 PM

I think you'll find if you look back, that I did post a few suggestions earlier. Got a session tonight, so haven't time to search

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Old Vermin
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:40 PM

Did I remember rightly that the launch was towards the end of the week - was it noon on Friday? In principle a Jolly Good Thing. In practice most people may have been knackered by then. I know I was doing battle with a recalcitrant tent and assessing the rate at which mud was drying.

I am not, I repeat not, asking how anyone will pronounce FAF. For those with long memories, there was an equally alliterative 'Rock against Racism' way back - '70s or so. Is folk the new rock?

As for Steve being seen as a tad insular, as nothing to a man of my acquaintance who claims not to take a newspaper or watch or listen to news programmes, to be aware of events only within the Isle of Purbeck and to be much happier for it.

There are one or two people who do the apt 'A place called England' by Maggie Holland in pub sessions, which is some sort of start.

Someone above already mentioned Woody Guthrie.

Folk does rather seem to have divide between what the great and worthy may be doing in the Ham and elsewhere - paid concerts - and what the rest of us do in pubs and elsewhere. Thing about independent thought is that it's really rather difficult to direct, though.

How about a Limerick competition about Nick Griffin?

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:43 PM

"Sorry, basically I'm an apolitical animal..."
- John MacKenzie

There you go, you've said it yourself, that being so, stay out of the fight and don't try and tell me and others what we should be doing, what we shouldn't be doing, what we should be saying and what we shouldn't be saying, oh, and where this thread should reside.
I'm being polite again (sorry Folknacious *LOL*), but I think my drift is fairly obvious.

For the record, I believe that Steve Harris is nothing more than a wind up merchant, and should, thus, be ignored.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 02:53 PM

"For the record, I believe that Steve Harris is nothing more than a wind up merchant, and should, thus, be ignored."

Every time an anti-Bnp thread appears on Mudcat, it attracts someone who claims to be anti-BNP and then proceeds to extol the virtues of an all white Britain (or whatever). I reckon it's the same person using a multiplicity of names, the latest of which just happens to be Shit Erv Arse. Well, approximately.

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: Jamming With Ollie Beak (inactive)
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:04 PM

It's rather like, "well, I'm not racist but......" and you know damned well the person IS racist.

harris, or whatever you name is this hour, give it a rest will you..

Subject: RE: Folk Against Fascism launch at Sidmouth
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM

"haven't time to search"

Me neither.