BS: Controlling Diabetes

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 04:53 AM

Found it CarolC
It is sitting in the Mudcat cache can.

QUESTION : Carol - your "friend" might very well ask,
"Why walking? - O f all exercises available. why
is walking always...most recommended for blood-
sugar control?"

Answer: Diabetes is an insiduous diseas...it compromises
many parts of the body. One of those...is...the veinous system.
(The return of blood flow to the heart)

Each step taken while walking (as compared to swimming or
rowing) contracts the calf-muscles (gastrocnemius and solius)
and each contraction...in each leg....acts as secondary "heart
muscle" propelling the blood back to the center of the body.

Poor blood circulation in the lower extremities leads to a plethora
of problems...(varicose veins, plantar warts, fungus, yeast, gangreen)
and good blood circulation helps in prevention.

Exercise helps all parts of even a healthy person's body...even
the current thread on Sciatia... (the cure for THAT is easy...but it should
be in that thread....and will anger doctors and chiropractors and lawyers)

Walking. Imagine each step....squeezing blood upwards

Your friend will become a daily practitioner....if not....take them to a local dialysis
unit...and count the number of toes on the patients and ask "how many of
you have diabetes?"

---

OK, so this post is from Gargoyle, who is reluctant to sign his name tonight.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:44 AM

My last post addressed points made in the deleted post.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:42 AM

Fortunately this person did quite a lot of walking during July and August for work (walking around gas station parking lots for extended periods of time each day - different gig than the ones he's doing now). Hopefully that helped some and bought him some time until he can see a doctor.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Sep 09 - 12:42 AM

Please note that anonymous Guest posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted. If you insist on posting without a consistent name, that's your problem.
Gargoyle, this includes you. You know the rules. If it's in the non-music section and the "from" box is blank, the message gets deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Mingulay
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 08:17 PM

Backwoodsman - you are misguided about T2 diabetes and no insulin. I am T2 and have to inject twice a day with about 60+ units in total. Also, Blood Glucose Monitors are freely available ( I got mine from the Diabeticare Centre at my local hospital) and test strips are available on prescription, again free as diabetics in the UK do not have to pay prescription charges.

I agree that healthy eating and excercise are important components in control but this is often difficult when having to live on benefits and being disabled. Trust me, I am that diabetic.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: maire-aine
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 07:22 PM

Somebody mentioned earlier keeping single-serving packs of nuts, which is a good idea. Also, take along a can or 2 of low-salt V8 or tomato juice-- better than orange juice for breakfast-- along with your Egg McMuffin (egg & Canadian bacon). A McDonald's bacon-ranch salad with GRILLED chicken (not fried) is a good, filling choice.

m

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: mg
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:55 PM

Read up on Dr. Rob Thompson of Seattle...now his advice is for metabolic syndrome, not too awful type 2 diabetes...borderline, not too high.

But a level of 400 is a very serious situation. I never said don't see a doctor and I wouldn't say that. I will say that very many are very ignorant and can not see what is before their eyes, which if a person eats too many carbs, good, bad or indifferent, (carbs with calories..not vegetables with few sugars or starches) some of them will get overweight, which is a symptom of a diabetic process, not a risk factor as is commonly stated. It is not a cause of diabetes, it is part of the symtomatology of diabetes. If you are overweight consider that you are in the process of diabetes...and you might not be diagnosed for some time till you hit a magic number.

Get your insulin tested. Never ever let any doctor or anyone tell you that if you are diabetic you don't produce much insulin. You don't know if you don't test.

Read up on metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance and see the connections between insulin levels, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. Hint..some people could eat fat all day long and not get these problems and put them on a few carbs and wham they are diabetic with comorbidities. And I do mean a few. So you have to do your own research, if you are mildly elevated you have some time to research and experiment and test frequently with strips. It does not matter what Great Britain recommends or does not. You need to do this. You need to compare your blood sugar readings to your insulin level because that will tell you how damaged you are.

You will get this if you are genetically disposed, if you eat too many carbs, good bad etc., if you don't exercise it off, if you have too much stress and other factors. You won't get it if you are vigorous and what you eat conforms to your metabolic type, which in some regards depends on whether your ancestors were subjected to famines or not.

400 is very high. Camp out for a few nights if you have to and save up for a doctor visit. Cut out white flour and don't let anyone tell you you need it. Likewise juice, soda of any sort, trans fats. Go easy on fruits until this level is down way down. Don't be afraid of fats..they stabilize blood sugar. How much anyone needs of anything is very individual, but no one needs coke, white bread, doughnuts, etc.etc. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: DonMeixner
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:53 PM

Same here Kendall, I have some Isla and a 1/2 a bottle of Paddy's.
At the rate I'm drinking them I couldn't raise my blood sugar if I wanted to.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: maire-aine
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:41 PM

As always, talk with your doctor or health care professional. The alcohol may interact with medications. I'm partial to Glen Morange myself

m

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: GUEST,Kendall
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:21 PM

So, it's ok to drink whiskey as long as you dont add something sweet.I drink Glen Fiddich or Glen Morange. Wouldn't think of adding anything sweet!

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Rumncoke
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:04 PM

Consider doing Atkins - not the media information type Atkins but the one where you buy the book and read it.

Eating pounds of fresh vegetables every day is part of it, NOT perpetual fry ups and processed meats.

On the Atkins list I am on, on Yahoo groups, there are several people who no longer need drugs to control their dabetes, others who are controling their blood sugar levels with fasting readings in the normal ranges.

Humans never used to eat as much sugar, grain, carbohydrate in general as the standard supermarket diet provides. It is possibly why there is so much diabetes - we are simply not able to cope with all the carbs.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:50 PM

It should be noted that US and UK practice is to express the sugar levels in different units. The commonly used US unit is mg/dL (milligrams per deciliter) and in those units the common guideline is that fasting level should be at 100 or below. A fasting level of 140 was, a few years back, the usual level at which many doctors recommended serious efforts to get lower, but recommendations regarding the level at which treatment should be begun has been decreasing and most docs would now suggest diet changes, weight loss, and often one of the milder "facilitator" drugs like metformin for fasting levels above 120.

The glucometers commonly used in the US rarely will "register" levels above about 450 or 500, and readings this high probably are not really accurate.

At the other end, most US glucometers will not register, and/or are inaccurate below about 40 or so. Most people are unconscious, or nearly so, at levels below about 45, but especially in Type I diabetics, and in Type IIs using insulin, some may become "acclimated" to transient lower levels and may see lower numbers.

Anything below about 50 probably requires immediate action to bring the level back up, and until individual tolerance is known professional - emergency - assistance may be needed.

One person of my acquaintance can usually "self treat" at levels as low as 40, but may need assistance at 36. About 35 or below is when we call "911" if there isn't an IMMEDIATE response. This is a person with unstable control and acclimated to episodes of very low glucose levels, and "normal diabetics" might go to the morgue rather than to the hospital at these levels.

For Type II, US doctors rely mostly on the "average" shown by lab tests, but again different units are generally used and the critical value is called the "A1C" level. It's listed on lab reports as a "%" but the reports don't say what's measured. Values between 4.7 to 6.4 are listed as "good" or "normal."

For fasting glucose levels, a range of 70 to 100 mg/dL is shown on the reports as "normal." Most physicians seem not to be too concerned if non-fasting levels are around 180 - 200 in Type II patients with otherwise good control, but at the high end (or above) some might suggest a brief period of readings over time following a meal to see whether the level declines normally.

Note that these comments are based on a dozen years of consultation with "pretty good" medical advisors to our family. They might help someone know what to discuss, and what questions to ask of their own medical consultants; but should not be considered "authoritative" by anyone.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:22 PM

The count was somewhere around 400 at the time of the free screening, and around 240 or thereabouts (shortly after eating) a couple of days ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:32 AM

How high is high? I've heard that between 100 and 150 is "normal". When my diabetes was discovered my count was around 380 to 420. Any idea what your friends recent count numbers have been like?

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:28 AM

Yes, I misspoke when I suggested that a prescription would make the strips less expensive. I was just remembering that when this person first got the strips they have now (with a prescription), they had insurance and the strips didn't cost anywhere near what they would cost now that they don't have insurance.

This person was actually diagnosed with T2 several years ago, back when they had insurance. They never received the kind of care from their primary doctor that people are describing in this thread and they were never referred to any other care givers like dietitians back then. They had their blood sugar levels fairly well under control through the weight loss and metformin, but after they lost their insurance and no longer had regular access to a doctor, they lost track of the whole process. They recently went to a free health screening and found that their blood sugar level was back to being too high again and went to one doctor's office where they were seen only by a PA, who did nothing except prescribe metformin and a blood pressure medicine for one month and who wanted to order a lot of tests and told them to come back in a month. The blood pressure medicine never worked, and they weren't on the metformin long enough to see any improvement. They didn't agree to having all of the tests because they are convinced that the doctor is trying to rip them off.

The last time they checked their blood sugar, it was still high, but only a small amount compared to the reading at the health screening. They've probably been walking around with fairly high blood sugar for a few years now, and unfortunately, medical attention is going to have to wait for a couple more months. In the meantime, they are following the advice of the people in this thread and in PMs, and it seems to be helping.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:38 AM

Apologies for 'going on' a bit but here's a question:-

I noted someone earlier claiming to have been treating T2 with insulin shots (if I understood correctly). Is this true and, if so, is it commonplace in the USA? It's something I've not heard of here - if dietary adjustments alone don't control blood-glucose, and because a T2 patient's pancreas is still producing **some** insulin, we're given drugs such as Metformin or, in my case because of suspected liver-damage, Gliclazide which 'encourage' the pancreas to produce more insulin itself, so insulin introduced artificially isn't necessary.

Insulin is used as a treatment for T1, where the pancreas has stopped producing insulin completely.

Anyone got the definitive answer? I'm intrigued.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:49 AM

And I agree that many newly-diagnosed T2 patients have a tendency to go overboard and think like a T1 patient - wanting to know at all times how their blood glucose is doing and panicking if it's a tad high. I know I certainly did.

Time and experience in managing T2 teaches that it's not necessary to constantly monitor your glucose, and you become very good at managing your diet in a sensible way, limiting the 'bad' elements and using the 'good' food-types in a sensible way. It takes time and a little will-power, but it's very do-able. It's a lifestyle-changing condition but, approached sensibly and intelligently, it's not Armageddon.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:42 AM

InvariablY!!   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:40 AM

Good advice from John there.

In the UK, testing by T2 patients is not advised - the periodic HBa1c blood-test by the doctor is used to monitor long-term average levels - and we are not issued with a testing kit. The wisdom has been that, provided the patient is able to recognise the onset of a hypo, and knows how to treat it, short-term spikes aren't a major issue - provided that the HBa1c results show a good average (around 6 mmol).

However, Diabetes UK seem now to be pushing for doctors to advise once-a-day checking and I'm expecting (nay, hoping) that it will become the practice in the not-too-distant future, when we should then be issued with free testing kits and have access to free supplies of strips. Worth noting that, in the UK, over-60's get free prescription drugs and medical equipment anyway, and all diabetics get free eye-tests (for spectacles) and free annual Retinopathy checks.

I personally have good HBa1c readings. In addition, I bought my own testing kit and I buy the strips (about $50 for 50 strips - not cheap!). I check once a week, early morning before eating or drinking, and my readings are invariable between 5.5 mmol and 7.5 mmol, so I must be doing something right!

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:02 AM

As has been pointed out, glucose monitors and test strips do not require a prescription in the US.

It has not been made clear that having, or not having, a prescription does not affect the price of these items. Having insurance is what matters.

It is true that most US insurers will not pay anything if the items are obtained without a prescription, but usually will pay varying amounts if they are prescribed. It is usual for a prescription to be valid and "refillable" for one year, so ONE visit to a physician to get a prescription, once per year, should not be an onerous burden.

In many parts of the US, retail (store-front) pharmacies will usually fill prescriptions for one month at a time, but if the prescribing physician writes it properly one can sometimes get a 90 day "fill." There are "chain pharmacies" with whom you can fill a prescription and any other store in that chain can e-transfer it to fill the same Rx for you anywhere in the US. (Walmart and Walgreen are a couple in my area.)

Most mail order pharmacies customarily offer 90 day refills. If you have insurance (the main reason to get a prescription, really) your insurer quite probably has a deal with a mail-order pharmacy that will give you 90 day quantities. (Some doctors might write the Rx to "test 5 times daily" and tell you test twice, to make a 30 day supply last a little longer, but I won't say who's done it for us.)

It is quite common for "newly diagnosed" Type II diabetics to feel that they must keep constant track of variations in their glucose levels, so they feel that they need "lots of test strips." Mainstream advice is that most Type II diabetics should NOT CHECK more than once daily, with the recommended time being about a half hour after waking, before eating, since the "fasting level" (after sleeping for a normal night) is most representative of how well one's body is responding to diet, exercise, and other "behavio(u)rs" that might affect control.

It is fairly common for the docs to recommend checks a half hour after each meal for newly diagnosed persons; but this is mainly to assess how wide the excursions in levels are. Once this baseline is established, a doctor might neglect to tell you to cut back to "once daily," or to another lesser frequency, but likely would agree if asked. Once a stable record has been established, many Type II diabetics can get by with readings once or twice per week, if they are consistently done at the same time relative to sleep and meals each time, and if they have made needed changes in diet, exercise, and sleep and the condition has been stable.

You do need the advice of a professional, often an endocrinologist, most especially if your condition has not stabilized. You should follow instructions from your advisor for your specific case.

Alcohol has a rather special significance for diabetics, in that it is a sugar of different molecular weight, and it is not affected by insulin. Attempting to control the transport of "sugars" while ingesting "sugars" that are immune to the control agent is a recipe for disaster. Alcohol may give aberrant glucose level readings in testing, and may affect both the natural insulin and the effectiveness of "insulin enhancers" like Glyburide, Metformin, etc. Using alcohol, in any amounts and of any kind, can significantly interfere with stabilizing the diabetic, and may confuse the SH*T out of one's physician, even if you openly provide information concerning your use.

A healthy diet, and especially one that facilitates weight loss when needed, really is all that most Type II diabetics need worry too much about. Especially in early treatment, more frequent smaller meals may help limit the "postprandial excursions" in glucose levels, which is generally helpful. Practiced for a while, many people find they like "frequent little snacks" to the exclusion of big meals as a way of life.

Exercise and appropriate sleep are also important.

Weight loss is generally recommended for most diabetics, when possible.

A few persons may be discovered in "critical Type II" condition, and may require very strict diet and lifestyle modifications; but for most newly diagnosed Type IIs it's more a "time to start treating this before it gets to the serious effects" sort of thing. It is important that the severity of each case be understood before launching into panic, and unfortunately many professionals are not good at offering "risk level assessment" opinions. It is important that each diabetic learns to live with his/her own specific response to the illness. The anecdotal experience of others may be of little value, if your case isn't just like theirs - and it probably isn't.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:49 AM

Wesley S
"And sorry - but I reject the notion that it's difficult to lose weight on the road. It's easy to pop into a grocery store and buy inexpensive fruit and water bottles instead of pulling through the drive-thru for fries and a soft drink. If you're sitting next to a big bag of apples and bananas you are less likely to pull into Whataburger."

Wesley, who ever said bananas were good for diabetics?? WRONG!

Carol, fruits in moderation & in balance is good, an abundance of fruits alone will turn to sugar & the sugar blood count will skyrocket & peak.
You want to stop the peaks & drops & that's why you test to get an idea of how to moniter you food intake & how that effects you blood count.

Example,
Breakfast- I do 3 carbs which comes from if balanced, 1 carb from starch (say 2 slices of light bread or 1/2 an english muffin), 1 carb from fruit (maybe 1/4 cup of dried fruit or a small banana) & 1 carb from a milk product or byproduct (maybe 2/3cup of low-fat yogurt).
Now I can add to that 1 protein (say 1 egg or 1 cup raw veggies) along with that I should have a little fat (maybe 1 slice of bacon) & then some "free foods".

Lunch is the same 3 carb serving; balanced=starch, fruit, milk. Again with maybe 3oz of protein (that number will change depending on the person), 1 fat serving 1 veggie serving & again some "free foods"

Supper; maybe a 6" ear of corn (your starch), 1 1/4cup of water melon (your fruit), 1cup of low fat milk (your milk). Along with you protein; 5oz of lean pork or, beef or fish, 2 servings of fat (2 tbsp of salad dressing) plus a large salad & again some "free foods"

3 squares a day!!!!
now you need the snacks inbetween maels. For me I try to target between 17-20 carbohydrates.

The balance is important. Example. Starch may turn to ssugar with an hour, protein within 2 hours & will cause a peak in sugar levels but balancing the meal spreads the sugar spike out over a period of 3 hrs. The oil/fat (good fat is always a preference, meaning non animal fats) will slow down the fruit changing to sugar)

SO your friend needds to learn about what foods fall into what groups, what amout he can eat safely (consult an expert) & learn to read the food lables when buying foods.
He won't be able to do this without consulting a doctor (for finding out his blood levels & labs) & a nutri/diet expert to work in cojunction with his primary health care phys.
Once he has a handle of all this along with keeping his levels even & down to where they should be 90-100 then he can check his levels not so often but he needs to know where his levels are now, he could be a walking time bomb, find out if he needs meds & what kind (oral or injection) & get in some kind of exercise, exercise with diet = sleep is most very important, the combo is what will keep him alive in the long run. If he can't manage it, it's his tough shit, he'll pay eventually. Doesn't matter if he can't find the time or he's working all month long, if he wants to live long he'd better start finding the time to do what he has to do

Barry, who's trying to find his way too.

I never in my life had to worry about foods & exercise. I work heavy labor all my life & kept in great shape, eat what I wanted & got more exercise than I needed. Having a transplant & the meds that came with it caused my type 2 diabetes. It's a whole new & strange world for me too but we live & learn.

Good luck with your friend

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:35 PM

The person this thread is about is going to be very happy about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: maire-aine
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 11:25 PM

It depends on what kind of alcohol you're drinking. If it's beer, there are carbs and that means sugar. Same with wine, altho the sugar content varies more. If you're drinking straight distilled liquor, then there's no sugar, unless you mix it with something sweet. There are websites that will list the nutrition information, including calories and carbs, for just about anything.

m

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:04 PM

Does alcohol in any way aggravate diabetes, or is it neutral with regard to its effects on diabetes (aside from the problem of weight gain)?

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: LilyFestre
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:43 PM

Carol,

   YES! I know it sounds crazy but alcohol DOES lower your blood sugar levels. Many people mistakenly assume a diabetic is drunk which causes staggering, slurred speech, etc.....but really what they are seeing is a sugar LOW. There are lots of stories about people who have died because of this....loved ones thinking they just had too much to drink when in fact the alcohol has dropped their sugar level dangerously low. I've always been told it's ok to have a drink or two but that if I feel I MUST have more, to always make sure I have something to eat with it.

   Just another paradox of diabetes. I thought it would raise the glucose levels too. Wrong.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: kendall
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:34 PM

I was diagnosed borderline diabetic. What works for me is diet and exercise. I stay right away from all forms of refined sugar, and I limit intake of any sugar. I bought an exercise bike and I ride it. I find that watching tv, reading or even playing the banjo helps to relieve the boredom.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:27 PM

Alcohol lowers blood sugar?

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:56 PM

Eat nothing but air
Drink nothing but water
Walk all day

Work with available medications.

Smaller portions
Alcohol is not entirely bad. Main point there is that it lowers blood sugar ( I used whiskey and diet ginger ale to lower mine however I fell over before it went down far enough) If you are on medication which is lowering your sugar drinking will lower it too far not good. So if you drink check sugar frequently and add food or sweet juice mixers accordingly.

Eventually if you are in controled mode you can predict your sugar level and that makes testing less frequent. It is often dangerous to know that you can eat more when your sugar is controled. I tended to eat more when I knew medicaitons were working but then of course weight gain.

Exercise is good but it requires a lot of walking to bring sugar levels down walking is better for fat levels and weight loss.

A difficult path tedious but working with doctor and medication helps.
The main problem is if you have food and drink as an important aspect of your cultural world. Dying for ones culture. Well....tempting.

Conrad

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 06:01 PM

Thanks, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: DonMeixner
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:25 PM

Carol,

I didn't get my diabetes type 2 under control until I found a Doctor who was diabetic.

Don

His advice: What ever you eat now, eat less. What ever alcohol you drink now, drink less. How ever far you walk now, walk more. Go to bed 1/2 hour earlier. He said Doctors give you all these impossible in the real world ultimatums. Do what you can do, then after awhile, do more. The result is the same if you do it 8 months instead of 4.

Good luck

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: LilyFestre
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM

Hi Carol,

    Diabetes is a fickle beast and requires adjustments for each individual. I have Type II Diabetes or maybe I should say I had it. I'm not sure if you are ever *cured* of it. For me, going to a whole foods diet with extremely limited amounts of refined foods helped me to lose almost 100 pounds. I had been taking 80 units of insulin twice a day and after about 40 pounds were lost, I found myself having too many lows, indicating there was too much insulin going into my body. In the end, I now require no insulin, meds or such careful monitoring of my sugar intake (although it's small just due to the way I now eat). Whole foods are easy enough to eat and have along in a snack bag for those days on the road. For emergencies, I also carry (still do) a few packs of white sugar (the kind that you get with coffee in a restaurant) which can be dissolved in water or if need be, taken right from the package.
    Like the other posters indicated, glucose testing strips (and any other testing supplies) do not require a prescription. You are absolutely right that they are expensive that way but if your friend is skeptical about what the Dr.'s have to say, it might be worth the investment just so they can see first hand what sends their blood sugars through the roof. They would also be able to see first hand how exercise can help bring the glucose levels down. I never had time for exercise either. Yeah. Bad call. However, it is something each person has to come to understand on their own.
    I found that coffee (regular) dropped my sugar levels hard and fast...good to know when I found myself with an unexplained sugar high...also helped explain lows.

Good luck to you and your friend.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:15 PM

This is why my loved one and I are so confused. Although I do appreciate everyone sharing their experiences with what they have been told is best.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 03:06 PM

Pretty much the opposite of medical advice given by professionals in the UK, mg.

Here, we're warned off fats, especially saturated fats - NO McDonalds, burgers, sausage, cheese (especially 'plastic' processed cheese like Cheesestrings, or cheese slices like those used in cheeseburgers), butter, lard - all very, very bad (raise cholesterol levels, bad for causing weight-gain and high blood-pressure which goes arm-in-arm with T2 Diabetes). Encouraged to use vegetable oils like sunflower or olive oil in cooking. Carbohydrates from cereals are strongly recommended - oats (porridge esp. good), pasta, wholegrain breads, potatoes in moderation - all good. Sweetened breakfast cereals (like coco-pops) - very bad. Fruit and vegetables encouraged. Pulses very much encouraged. Salt and sugar - very limited use of these is recommended.

Processed foods (burgers, processed cheeses, ready-meals, canned and packet foodsstuffs) can be very, very high in salt and/or sugar, and should be avoided.

Home-prepared meals made from fresh, unadulterated ingredients are the way to go, if at all possible. It doesn't hurt to slip into fast food occasionally, but not as a way of life.

It's a case of balance, Carol, balanced healthy meals with a wide range of natural, low-fat, low, sugar, low-GI ingredients - go to the resources that Rap, myself and others have recommended.

And try to raise the funds to GO TO A DOCTOR. I have to vehemently disagree with mg about this. Diabetes, and the complications which can accompany it, kills. It killed my Gran (T2), after taking her leg in an amputation made necessary by T2-Diabetes.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: mg
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 02:41 PM

Don't eat fruit juices. You can do pretty well at a McDonald's...better than a gas station.

Take with you: peanuts, almonds, macademia nuts if you don't eat too many. String cheese. There is ice in any hotel so take a cooler. Get some turkey at Safeway and put in cooler.

McDonald's...side of eggs and a sausage biscuit. Throw out the biscuit and eat the sausage.

Supplement with some celary sticks or whatever.

COuld have a salad for one meal..chicken.

Hamburger..throw out at least 1/2 of the bun. Chicken mcnuggets not too bad. Get plenty of protein and fat and green vegetables. Have small amounts of fruits and berries. No juice.

Read Dr. Rob or Robert THompson of Swedish Hosptial in Seattle. I have metabolic syndrome bad and to lose weight I have to eat essentially 0 carbs..good bad whatever you call them. Or maybe 20 to 40 per day. Count carbs rigorously. He talks about glycemic shock, not just an index or a load, but a shock.

No white flour except in hamburger buns and throw 1/2 away. If he can afford a hotel he can afford a certain amount of food. Carry a few greenish apples, bluberries, etc. Never eat fruit by itself.

If eating more than 100 carbs a day, cut to 100 immediately. THen start cutting more and more, white flour and potatoes first. Have a bit of brown rice and non instant oats if you feel you will die without carbs. Eat a small amount of dark chocolate. Don't be afraid of butter, lard or coconut oil. Eat lots of green vegetables. Keep snap peas, celery, broccoli etc. in a cooler and supplement any fast food meals.

You really need to test. And need to walk and walk some more. Do these hotels have pools or exercise rooms?
\
Don't get all paranoid about doctors. Most want to help you but they are terribly ignorant on this subject. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 02:04 PM

Good post Rap. I thought there would be good resources in the USA.
Carol, I've responded to your PM.
Peace to all.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:41 PM

Ok, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:35 PM

Test strips are NOT a prescription item -- you can buy them over the counter by asking. The control solution is not a prescription item. The meter is not a prescription item.

I know -- I'm Type II and I've bought test strips OTC when I've been on the road and found I hadn't brought extras.

There are a ton of websites that will provide goon, solid info. The Mayo Clinic site, or the Amer. Diabetes Association (or Foundation), PubMed....

If the person involved is a veteran, check out the VA. Or a free clinic.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM

Thanks, last poster before my last. That's good to know.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM

Ok, thanks for the suggestion that it's not necessary to have a prescription to get test strips. I just called Walmart and they said it's not necessary. It's just very expensive without a prescription, but they can be had without seeing a doctor, so that's good.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Michael
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:21 PM

Hi Carole,
I am Type 2 in UK, a member of Diabetes UK and have an excellent Practice Nurse and a good Diabetes Clinic at the local hospital (hurrah for the NHS).The dietary advice, in a very simplified form, is get a GI list and eat foods from the lower end as much as possible, get SOME form of exercise and if necessary, lose weight.
So far that's doing me fine,so well infact that my next 6 month hospital check is in 12 months!
It does require a bit of effort, but then life is worth it.

Cheers
Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:07 PM

Thanks to poster just before my last post. I will respond to PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:07 PM

Finding a different job would be lovely, but the search has not produced results so far.

The way the work day looks is this: out of bed and down to the complimentary hotel breakfast where there are usually no low carb foods available. In the car for periods ranging from a few minutes to a few hours. Out of the car and into the convenience store, and about three to five minutes walking around the premises. Back into the car for anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours, and repeat from about 6 in the morning until anywhere from 9 to 11 at night. At the hotel, usually anywhere from one to three hours of work is necessary on the computer. Sometimes there is about 10 to 15 minutes of walking around the hotel (also work related) before working on the computer in the evenings. Anything less than this amount of work means even less money for paying doctors. This is the bind they find themself in.

And again everyone, thanks for the links to resources.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:03 PM

Carole, are you sure that test strips are prescription-only? Sounds very odd - what harm can they do to anyone that would make them prescription-only? Might be worth checking.

And do take a look at the Diabetes UK website I mentioned earlier. They have stuff on there about balancing diet.

No offence, but I think you and your relative are getting down into far too much nit-picking detail. It's not necessary to check your glucose levels to work out what you can eat and drink - there are straightforward guidelines in existence as to what constitutes a good diet for a Type-2 Diabetic, and going down into fine detail isn't necessary. Type-1 is a different matter, though, and I wonder if your relative is doing what I did at first - panicking and thinking like a Type-1 sufferer? They're both Diabetes, but they're not identical, either in form or in treatment. Just a thought.

I've PM'd you.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Wesley S
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:56 PM

And if possible - it might be time to look for a new job that doesn't endanger their health.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM

Exercise is important because it helps control cholesterol-levels, and heart-disease is one of the things that diabetes can, and frequently does, cause.

I walk to work 5 days a week, half-an-hour's walking morning and night at a rate fast enough to increase my heart-rate and make me feel pretty warm, but not so fast as to make me out-of-breath. As recommended by the medics.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:55 PM

In the US it's necessary to have a prescription from a doctor to get test strips, which is why that's a problem right now. But what we are seeing online is that testing will help them understand which foods are causing elevated blood sugar levels and will help them figure out what they can eat and can't eat, although when they were testing regularly, they never did get it all figured out.

There is the added problem of this person not trusting the medical profession in the US. They are used to a single payer health care system where doctors don't screw the patients over in order to make more money, and they don't trust that the doctor is necessarily acting in the patient's best interests rather than the doctor's financial interests.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:51 PM

And, Carole, they need to go to a doctor. Whatever the cost, it's cheaper than death.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: maire-aine
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:51 PM

Hi. I posted these comments in an previous thread a while ago. It describes the diet I used to control carbs.

Personal discipline is the most important component, but that has to come from within the individual. You can supply information and clarify ambiguity, but you cannot provide the motivation your friend needs.

m

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:48 PM

Carole, in the UK Type-2 sufferers don't routinely test their blood-glucose levels - that's the province of Type-1 sufferers whose pancreas produces no insulin, so they have to constantly monitor their blood-glucose - so we Type-2 people don't get issued with testing kits. I bought my own, but only because, as an accountant, I'm a natural checker and statistician! I buy my own strips (around a dollar per strip! Eek!) and check my blood once per week, first thing in the morning before eating or drinking. My doctor and the Practice Nurse strongly disapprove because, whatever the reading, there's no additional treatment to be given - just diet control and take the pills as instructed.

With Type-2, the pancreas still produces insulin, albeit in reduced quantities, so diet or medication (usually pills) are used to boost that production. Testing is generally done periodically (like 6-monthly) via the HBa1c blood-test, the sample for which is taken at the doctor's surgery. The HBa1c shows 'average' glucose levels over a long period.

Subject: RE: BS: Controling Diabetes
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 12:48 PM

Getting some sleep is absolutely imperative, since most of their work day is spent driving. Getting killed in a car accident is not preferable to having diabetes. As it is, they only get 4 to 6 hours of sleep a night while on the road. Sacrificing any more sleep is not really an option.