BS: things we have to face! so's to speak

Subject: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:00 PM

It seems that environmental awareness is finally getting to the bathroom/loo/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/23/AR2009092304711.html

"ELMWOOD PARK, N.J. -- There is a battle for America's behinds.

It is a fight over toilet paper: the kind that is blanket-fluffy and getting fluffier so fast that manufacturers are running out of synonyms for "soft" (Quilted Northern Ultra Plush is the first big brand to go three-ply and three-adjective).

It's a menace, environmental groups say -- and a dark-comedy example of American excess.

The reason, they say, is that plush U.S. toilet paper is usually made by chopping down and grinding up trees that were decades or even a century old. "...etc.....



Years ago, they quit making paper grocery bags out of old trees with long fibers... I hadn't realized the TP industry was doing it. Such travails! *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:21 PM

Hmmmm. Here my first thought was that Bill D rarely starts a thread- well, now at least I know what type of subject will get you off your duff, so's to speak. :)

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:24 PM

Environment, Ebbie...environment! *grin*

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: SharonA
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:25 PM

I would like to know what the environmentalists have in their bathrooms at home. Are they using the rough recycled-paper stuff, or do they only bring it out when their environmentalist friends come over to visit?

Or do they have baskets of leaves for the purpose?

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM

Sharon...I'd guess the serious ones try to use the most reasonable thing possible...(at least the ones I know at EPA do). (Almost no one has bidéts here, so we cope in various weays.)

Baskets of leaves? Of course not!........................

corn cobs.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: gnu
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 05:46 PM

Sheryl would crow.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: ranger1
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:11 PM

Sigh. Trees grow back. There is more forest in Maine now than there was at the time of the US Civil War, and 73% of what was here when Europeans first colonized the state. I will stick with my soft TP, thank you very much.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Amos
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:12 PM

The Japanese toilet company Toyo makes a high-tech model that will spray you forard or aft, at your desire, with pressure and temperature controls at your fingertips. When you do it that way you don't need paper atall!



Or so my Malaysian friends have assured me.


A

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: gnu
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:19 PM

As The Cable Guy says, Sheryl ain't been eatin the same as me.

Bidet you say? Not likelay!

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: SharonA
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 06:40 PM

Bill D: I'm envisioning a scenario similar to the "Junk Food Junkie" song, where the EPA guy has a secret bathroom in his basement where he goes to squeeze the Charmin!

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:01 PM

Cut-up newspaper always used to do fine when I was a kid.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:07 PM

I have lots of Hair to face !!

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:27 PM

Use soap and water fer chrissake! It works way better than any kind of paper ever will. If you can't bear to use your own hand to wash your own arse off...well, I'd say you've got a serious psychological problem there. I realize this doesn't help you at the porta-potty on the folk festival grounds, but I'm talking about when you are at home where soap and water are immediately available.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 07:40 PM

"Trees grow back"

Yep...but understanding what that means is more than relevant. The old trees (100 years +) with LONG fibers, are habitat and important parts of the ecosystem....tree farms with short fibers rely on different types of faster growing timber.
The problem is similar to tuna fishing-- we are using the older, bigger, more desirable ones faster than they can be replenished. So- we are merely putting off 'running out' to a later date. Someone...whether 20 years or 100 years from now... will have to wipe with something else.

Any solution? Sure....reduce the population to...oh, 50 million, instead of 300 million. You'll have both tuna & TP to suit.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: olddude
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:13 PM

Sure Sure, it is all fun and games folks until someone loses an eye

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:17 PM

"Environment"? So you're of the 'nurture, not nature' school, Bill D? :)

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:35 PM

Ebbie!! *tsk*! How you twist my words.....are you sure you don't work for the RNC? *grin*

If Lamarck was not thoroughly discredited in the 1800s and 1900s, recent DNA work has him on the ropes. (Though, like 'birthers', flat-earthers and creationists, someone will always look truth in the eye and deny it.)

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 11:10 PM

Okay, fine, let's talk about things we have to face, then.

Ahem!

Aging.

Death.

Plus the loss of every material thing that we presently have.

Hmm.

Food for thought, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Janie
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 11:52 PM

Hey, you can have your cake and eat it too! Eat a diet high in cheese and low in fiber. Then you will need so little TP that your conscience will be assured your habits in this matter have a very low environmental impact, and you can "squeeze the Charmin" guilt-free.

Or, given that some are "more regular" than others, perhaps we could write our congressmen and women and propose a "cap and trade" system.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Janie
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:24 AM

Stumbled across this, and thought it might fit.

No Impact Man

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 10:44 AM

Anyone done any sensible research on the impact that tp has on the environment over the additional use of water and power (not to mention the manufacturing processes) for bidets?

Can't help thinking that one would outweigh the other...

After all, what is the point of a variable flush if you're just going to use twice as much water in the bidet?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Sep 09 - 01:15 PM

LTS...very important question!

I have not seen any such study, but similar questions arise over various manufacturing/recycling/use issues. (CFC light bulbs, diapers, plastic bottles...etc.)

In the case of bidéts, it might well be a regional issue dependent on water supply.

A few years ago in California, there was a serious drought & water shortage, causing lawn watering bans...and eventually the instruction went out.."Don't flush for 'everything'". People saved so much water that the pumping stations had be reprogrammed. Of course, once restriction were lifted, it was back to "business" as usual.

I have several toilets in the house, including one in a back-basement location (near my workshop)where I can use that rule and only flush once a day. It saves a LOT of water...4 gallons X 6-8 flushes? (I don't actually count)

Obviously, men use only about 10% of the TP manufactured, and I will make no suggestions about how women's share might be reduced.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Stringsinger
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 12:54 PM

One tradeoff after another. Water vrs. paper.

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Sep 09 - 01:18 PM

I've heard that a TP factory is a sight to behold, in order to turn out the fluffy product we knead so well, a large constant influx of water and wood is required. Apparently the factory that does it is the size of a Manhattan Project complex, and quite modern and automated.
And on the nether side of it is the usability of TP made from recycled products, which is apparently a much less user-friendly product.

It reminds me of the letter I received from my brother long ago, it appeared to be written on what we called 'math paper' in school, a smooth writing surface, with no absorbency to speak of. The last sentence of my bro's screed:

"This is written on Russian toilet paper"

Subject: RE: BS: things we have to face! so's to speak
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Sep 09 - 12:34 AM

Ah, the good old 'Izal' or 'Bronco' brand of tp.. I got to be form captain on the strength of the argument that changing from the non-absorbent variety of paper in the school bathrooms that was detrimental to health, to a brand with a little more absorbency would reduce paper useage and the frequency of toilet blockage or 'paper floaters' that encouraged extra flushing to remove them.

In the military town of Aldershot, in the mid 1980's, the public lavatories used a similar brand of tp, which had carefully printed on each sheet 'Government Property, now wash your hands'.

LTS