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BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference
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Subject: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: skarpi Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:06 PM well all , again he is trying to save his future in politics ..... he said this about the banks and Icesave: And so I tell you this about our aims for the rescue of the banks: the British people will not pay for the banks. No, the banks will pay back the British people. Let me tell you for sure that the Icelandic banks are not going to pay all the Icesave back , why becouse they can´t what they own is not enough to pay back , so where does it end , well on me and 319.999. thousand people of Iceland , people who have and is loosing everything that they have saved, most of the people did not take any part of this stupit greedy way that the bank offered . The workers and the middle class people are those who are loosing all , me as well in few months if I cant save my ass from it :>) And that is what is goin on here , we the people who are loosing everything are not ready to agree about the Icesave . Also those bankmen who caused this crisis , walk free , so feel free to take them to court , we don´t care . well I hope you dont have to pay for this , but we will have to if the coverment of Iceland agrees Icesave as it is now . And that means Slavery for next 50 years to come for the workers and the middle class , in form of high taxes and in less health care less schools and so on Now make no mistake that I want you all to get your money back , those bankmen took away lot of millions and millions of euro´s and pounds away to cayman islands and other playses , and they should pay back the money they stole not just from you , also from us, and many more people . If Icesave is not agreed , it will surely be come , and it will make a conflickt between UK , Holland and Iceland . One thing is sure : the IMF is controled of UK and Holland and EU and the Nortic countrys , , no loans until Icesave is ready to go . The other day we saw a film about the IMF : the econamy chost it was called , very interesting film . the IMF is used agains us , time is runnin away from us , things are getting worse , becouse UK and Holland are using IMF to make things their way . Mr , Gordon Brown I hope you have a good future , but what you are about to but on children and unborn children of Iceland in the future is slavery and nothing else . I know our banks made many people sorrow, but its not my or my childrens fault is it . may we all live in peace , but I will be afraid that there is goin to be a large wound between those country´s for long time . Help us to take those men away , many of them lives in UK ( London ) at least you can , its strange that our coverment won´t do it unless they change the law. And somhow they won´t do that , and that is strange at least I say . here is news about IMF : http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2009/09/29/pm-iceland-cannot-wait-much-longer-for-imf-payout/ and her is Gordon Brown : http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/sep/29/gordon-brown-labour-conference-speech-in-full and her is more from our primeminester: http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=29314&ew_0_a_id=346068 sorry about my blue click . well all the best Skarpi Iceland . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:23 PM And your point in one sentence Skarpi? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: John MacKenzie Date: 29 Sep 09 - 05:24 PM Skarpi, I THINK Gordon Brown was talking about the UK banks that have been bailed out by the British taxpayers. There have been problems with UK banks as well my friend, unfortunatly Iceland, although it is undoubtedly the biggest loser, has not been the only country who's banks have gone to the wall. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: skarpi Date: 29 Sep 09 - 06:08 PM yes he was talkin about people in UK , thats for sure ........ the point is we people of Iceland are not going pay either Villan that for sure and make no mistake about that . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Gervase Date: 30 Sep 09 - 03:05 AM Looks like you certainly need some knowledge Linda, dropping in randomly like that! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:21 AM Sorry, Skarpi, but Gordon Brown's responsiblity is to the UK, not the people of Iceland. I'm sorry for what's happened to your economy and your banks but I don't imagine too many Icelanders were complaining when all the foreign savings were coming into the country (same as in Ireland). The economic mess in your country is your government's fault, not ours. I think Gordon Brown's speech was pretty damn good, as it happens, and if anything it should focus all our minds on why, for all the faults of this government, we need to keep Labour in and keep the Tories out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Stu Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:06 AM In fact Skarpi, pray Brown stays in. If he doesn't, you'll find Cameron and his mates a whole lot less bothered about anyone but themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:09 AM Gordon Brown is the worst Prime Minister we have ever had! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:11 AM On the contrary, his steps in reaction to the banks' folly and theft bid fair to make the UK the first major country rising out of recession. Certainly our unemployment is considerably lower than France and Germany. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:12 AM With the Sun giving up on Labour that's one major reason for not voting Labour gone. And having the Sun saying "Vote Tory" is another reason not to. I think you've got a pretty short memory Villan! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:36 AM Nah,I have a very good memory. I didn't mention any party. I said Gordon Brown IMHO is the worst Prime Minister we have had. Yes we have had some bad ens but none as bad and as hated as Gordon Brown. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: John MacKenzie Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:47 AM Depends on what your criterion is, in my book he's a far better man, and more of a socialist, than his predecessor. TB for me was the worst thing to happen to UK politics in a long time, and he certainly alienated a lot of Labour voters. JM |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 30 Sep 09 - 08:57 AM I judge on all parties not just Labour |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Stu Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:36 AM "Gordon Brown is the worst Prime Minister we have ever had!" I can't agree Villan. Thatcher was by far the worst Prime Minister we've ever had, as her and her apostles set us on the course we've charted ever since. Major was a joke designed to stop Hesletine becoming PM, Blair a shallow, witless, poultroon seduced by the establishment, the right wing and big business and Brown is unpopular but at least a man of some substance. I think. Cameron is a front for the old tory party; a marionette for toffs and Thatcherite wonks. Don't believe for a second this leopard has changed it's spots; if the tories get elected it will set back the political process in this country by a generation at least. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 30 Sep 09 - 09:52 AM Isn't that what labour have done already Jack? I have voted Labour and Tory in my time and dependant on who I thought would make the best leader at the time. I never voted for Brown (I am making a right FU of the country) in. He might be a good chancellor, but Prime Minister NFW |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 09 - 11:14 AM On a point of order Villan, you can't vote for Brown even if you wanted to, or for Cameron, or anyone else, other than the candidates standing for election in your local constituency. The only people who can vote for Brown or Cameron are the people who live in the constituencies which those two are candidates in. Just thought it was worth mentioning! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: skarpi Date: 30 Sep 09 - 12:58 PM chris B economic mess in your country is your government's fault, not ours. your coverment had to give the Icelandic banks green light to work in UK , that s not the job of our coverment is it , both coverment fault , becouse the people who should been watching and monetouring the banks in both countrys fell . any way , our coverment is falling , today minester of healt quit , becouse of Icesave, and the coverment is dead . so only the future know what will be. kv Skarpi |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM "most hated prime minister" - no one even compares to Thatcher when it comes to being hated. Gordon Brown may come across as wooden, and he's made some mistakes all right (notably backing Blair for all those years, and carrying on with they New Labour nonsense when he had the chance to change things), but I can't think of much he's done that would merit hatred. The financial meltdown happened on his watch, but I can't envisage that a different prime minister, or a different party, would have handled it as well, let alone done better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:26 PM You are dead right BWM - you smart arse :-) I should of course have said that I voted for the party that I thought had the best leader at the time, so that meant I voted for the person where I lived who was in the same party as the leader of the party I wanted to vote for. LOL I'll get me voat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: The Sandman Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:32 PM Villan,sorry I totally disagree with you. I think Brown,has a bit to recommend him,I think he is better than Blair,and better than any of the other main party leaders. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:53 PM Well we can't always have the same viewpoint :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Sep 09 - 01:58 PM McGrath as usual is right |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Backwoodsman Date: 30 Sep 09 - 03:15 PM LOL, Villan! :-) And spot on McG. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Linda Kelly Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:13 PM People seem to villify Gordon Brown & labour- I can't work out why-possibly the mimimum wage or children's tax credits or the 5% increase in State pensions last year or the car scrappage scheme or better wages for doctors and nurses or new schools and hospitals, but dammit all they banned fox hunting didn't they? -the vile swines!!! Seems people are high on rhetoric but short on reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Richard Bridge Date: 30 Sep 09 - 04:35 PM The car scrappage scheme was stupid and has done and continues to do incalculable harm to our automotive history. It puts money largely into foreign hands - the owners of the factories subsidised - although it has a marginal effect on job availability. It should have been limited to vehicles under 15 years old. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: GUEST,eric the viking Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:30 PM How on earth can one compare Brown (Who I am not over fond of) with Thatcher and Co? Or even the Labour party come to that in comparison to the Tory party that showed; greed was good, dismantled the welfare state, introduced the poll tax, closed the mines, sold off nationised industries (Whether they were poorly run or not) to their rich friends, cheaply, after ruining them? Who Imported cheap foreign coal and closed the mines destroying the community? Who turned the police into their own personal private army? Who set the levels of banding for council tax making the poorer pay disproportionately higher rates than the rich with their huge houses? There are many things that need to be remembered before the next election. They could all be listed, but it would be a long list !!! Nothing will convince me that the tory party have changed !! Have they sudenly appealled to the working ordinary peoople? Have they turned their backs on the creation of huge personal wealth at the expense of others? Not likely. Short memories some people and many other younger ones no experience of what it was like. (By the way I do remember the three day week and power cuts etc and am not excusing them) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: ButterandCheese Date: 30 Sep 09 - 05:41 PM Skarpi, on anothe rthread I forget which, you told someone to basically mind their own business and stay out of Icelandic affairs....this conference is taking place in the UK, not Iceland, so...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: The Sandman Date: 30 Sep 09 - 06:09 PM I like Skarpi. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Linda Kelly Date: 30 Sep 09 - 07:31 PM but the scrappage scheme has regenerated the car retail sector which in the long run can only be good for car manafacturing in general -it was a small measure but successful I don't think it was ever intended to be the saviour of the entire industry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Stu Date: 01 Oct 09 - 03:57 AM "Isn't that what labour have done already Jack?" Not on the scale the tories want to. For starters, they fully intend finishing off the job of destroying the unions started by Thatcher. They will cap party donations at £50k for both the corporate sector (which is needed) and unions. This will essentially pull the rug from under Labour in terms of funding as the unions are their main contributors, each member's subs goes partly to funding the party they set up. This is very bad news indeed. As the Labour party was started by the unions for the working people (a fact lost on many NuLabour wonks it would seem) this means the end of the modern Labour movement. The key social reforms of the last 100 years have been Labour reforms: the NHS, the minimum wage, nationalisation of the country's infrastructure. All the suffering from the Tolpuddle Martyrs, the strikers of 1927, the miners etc will have been in vain. Without the tempering of the political left we will end up in the same state as the US with essentially right-wing parties vying for power with not a lot to choose between them in real terms. Coupled with that, Scotland will not tolerate tory rule and would more than likely vote for independence in the referendum next year if Cameron get's in. If that happens Labour will loose it's core of Scottish MP's that sit in Westminster and be unlikely ever to form a majority as the Welsh don't have the numbers and the South-East of England, which effectively dominates the country is almost wholly tory. This would be a disaster as finally the old Etonians and public schoolboy network will come to further dominate British politics. We'll loose the NHS, the minimum wage and they will finally sell off what remains of the family jewels in an orgy of privatisation. Forget equality, education and healthcare. Forget society - they still think there's no such thing. I agree Labour have let us down to an extent by sucking up to the right and starting unwinnable wars, but they have also made big inroads in social reform that make millions of people's lives better. If the tories get in, then the likes of the people that caused the financial disaster Skarpi wrongly blames on British politicians, the dedicated, unelected, unaccountable capitalist elite, will have free reign over us all and to them we are a revenue source and not citizens of a democracy. Did I say a generation? Perhaps I should change that to forever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:45 AM Amen, Jack. "the likes of the people that caused the financial disaster Skarpi wrongly blames on British politicians, the dedicated, unelected, unaccountable capitalist elite, will have free reign over us all and to them we are a revenue source and not citizens of a democracy" Did you get that, Skarpi? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:01 AM I'll have some of what he's on! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Richard Bridge Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:08 AM But Sugarfoot Jack has it exactly right. However, the conference has proved good for Labour in that it is now (well last night) only 7 percentage points adrift of the COnservatives, and the message is out that quite probably Brown has saved the economy. A few good gaffes from the Conservatives about clampdowns on unions, tax rises, and service cuts might be enough to do the trick. Personally, if I were Brown, I'd now declare open war on media control and bring that bastard Murdoch down, by fair means or foul(within reason). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Stu Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:59 AM Agreed: James Murdoch is a bona fide enemy of the people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Oct 09 - 05:59 AM and the message is out that quite probably Brown has saved the economy That is good for Gordon, until you remember who it was that wrecked the economy in the first place. He told us there would be no more 'Boom & Bust' and so kept spending money he didn't have during what he thought was a neverending boom, leaving us with our biggest ever debts when the bust eventually came. Of course, we could always fall back on our gold reserves, if Gordon hadn't manage the amazing feat of selling them when gold was at a low point in its value! The sooner Gordon goes the better for the Labour Party & for the country! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 01 Oct 09 - 06:14 AM Labour have done exactly what they did the previous time they were in. Literally brought the country to its knees and in big debt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Oct 09 - 07:33 AM And the Tories will do exactly what they did last time they came in - turn a crisis into a total disaster. .......................... Talk about Gordon being too wooden reminds me of Aesop's fable of the frogs who asked Zeus to send them a king. He sent them a log of wood to be their king. They got bored with him, and asked for a real king who woudl be more exciting. So he sent them a stork "Very well", said Zeus - "here is your new king," and sent a large stork to the pond. The stork began to eat up all the frogs. They called out to Zeus to save them. He refused. The frogs now made their choice. Now they had to face the consequences. There seem to be an awful lot of frogs around these days. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:53 AM There seem to be an aweful lot of people in this country that want Labout out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:54 AM that want Labour* out |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Stu Date: 01 Oct 09 - 10:43 AM Well, vote Conservative and this is what you've got to look forward to: "It is rumoured that The Sun had made it clear that it would not back the party as long as Dominic Grieve remained Shadow Home Secretary. The previous Sun Editor, Rebekah Wade had made that clear after an unhappy dinner she had had with the man now moved to the Justice portfolio."(from a href="http://conservativehome.blogs.com/thetorydiary/2009/09/the-dead-parrot-tories-are-resurrected-in-the-sun.html">conservativehome.blogs.com note it's a Tory blog) So is Cameron making deals to ensure the support of the second biggest arserag available? Let's be clear about this. If true, an unelected, unaccountable foreign national is using his influence (via his editor) to shape the makeup of the shadow cabinet. Presumably he'll do the same if Cameron's made PM. If this doesn't set alarm bells ringing in your head then I'm not sure what will. Democracy? Unless you're rich, prepare to be abandoned. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Oct 09 - 11:08 AM Sugarfoot Jack: It seems a little pointless to rely on hearsay. Even the quote you give starts "it is rumoured". And as for: |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Backwoodsman Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:00 PM "There seem to be an aweful lot of people in this country that want Labour out." There seem to be an awful lot of people in this country that have very short memories! :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Gervase Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:31 PM A lot of people seem keen to say how much they hate Brown, but none of the reasons really stands up. Certainly most of the other G20 leaders say he has done pretty damned well in the face of the global economic crisis, while the list of Labour achievements he reeled off in his conference speech looks pretty impressive to me - and I'm not a knee-jerk Labour voter. By contrast Cameron comes across as an opportunist lightweight whose policies are remarkably sketchy - save for the scrapping of inheritance tax for the country's 3,000 wealthiest estates. Even if you regard all politicians as inveterate sleazebags, the choice would seem to be between a a humourless bunch of do-gooders with a bathplug and some smutty videos on account as opposed to a claque of Old Etonians touting duck-houses, moats and swimming pools. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:37 PM Most folkies have memory problems these days don't they :-) Now what was I going to say |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 01 Oct 09 - 12:43 PM Maybe it is possible to consider the Lib Dems, Gervais. I don't fancy Labour or Conservatives anymore. Its the same old bullshit from both parties. Now what was I going to say. Oh yes we are sold out at Faldingworth Live for this Saturday when we hav ethe fantastic Churchfitters on. Is that what I meant to say. Oh I don't know anymore |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 01 Oct 09 - 01:55 PM Awful is the word. .................. "Maybe it is possible to consider the Lib Dems" And if you are in a constituency where the Lib Dem has a chance under the present bent electoral system, that makes sense. Voting for whoever is most likely to bring electoral reform also makes sense. Gordon's promise of a referendum on that strengthens the case for Lib Dem sympathisers to vote tactically for Labour where the Lib Dem hasn't a chance. (And obviously any sensible Labour supporters will vote Lib Dem wherever that is the best hope of keeping out the Tory.) Of course Labour promised that in 1997, and has made no efforts whatsoever to keep the promise all these years, but there is no prospect of the Tories doing anything to reform the voting system. A hung parliament would probably be the best outcome - and that only happens if a lot more people vote Labour, and in some cases Lib Dem, than seems too likely at present. If the Tories win it will likely mean Scotland going independent in a couple of years, which means the end of the United Kingdom, and goodbye to the Union Jack. On the other hand we'd be stuck with the Tories for the forseseeable future. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:47 AM It's all very well to say that GB brought the system down, but it isn't really true. Labour choices were trammelled by the legacy of the Thatcher belief system, the "me" generation when B. Liar first came to power, and that particular public schoolboy never really believed in the need to control capitalism (as neither, dangerously, does the willowy Mandelbaum). That meant that revenues to do public good had to be derived through the capitalist sytem, hence the pursuit of growth options. It was the inheritance from Thatcher and B.Liar (and that from Ronnie Raygun in the USA) that brought the system down, not Brown. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 02 Oct 09 - 04:57 AM "Ronnie Raygun" Hehe!! Is that an old one, must be surely? Never heard it before, but it's just too apt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:22 AM Get a job with sex and travel Weksisupe Basically FO |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:28 AM Richard, stop using the tories as an excuse for Labour's and particulary Gordon Brown's incompetence. How long has Labour been in power? How long does it take a government to prove that they are doing a good job, without blaming the opposition. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Oct 09 - 03:59 PM Labour has done a lot of things wrong but a good few things it's got right. The Tories can be expected to continue with the things Labour got wrong, and get rid of the things Labour got right. And by refusing any moves towards eletoral reform, and driving the Scots into going for full independence they are liable to be in office for a long long time. That is a very nasty propsect. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Rasener Date: 02 Oct 09 - 05:28 PM >>driving the Scots into going for full independence << Thats what the scots want isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: The Sandman Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:15 PM Gordon Brown is not incompetent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 02 Oct 09 - 07:49 PM John McKenzie has it spot on re Blair and Brown. But Sugarfoot Jack demeans only himself in dismissing John Major as "a joke." Unlike Blair, Major was a decent and honourable guy, from a humble - in fact disadvantaged background - and with no pretensions. I can understand Skarpi's rage, but it was never the responsibility of a UK government to save Iceland's banks from themselves. The UK government couldn't even control its own banks - not that it should have had to do so. It was surely reasonable to expect the banks to take on some of the responsibility themselves, in return for the millions in bonuses that they paid Iand continue to pay) themselves. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Will Fly Date: 03 Oct 09 - 04:36 AM Has it been forgotten that the roots of today's banking crisis were planted by Thatcher in the actions she and her government took to deregulate much of the City banking processes? Moves that were followed in the US. The natural greed - if I may say so - of banks and financial institutions was controlled to a much lesser extent and we've seen the stupidity of such things as borrowing to lend which has helped to cause the current banking crisis. It's true to say that successive post-Thatcher governments, including Gordon Brown's, have done little or nothing to do anything about it all - but it was all going so well, wasn't it? (!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Eric the Viking Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:41 AM No Villan, not all Scots want full independence and the SNP are a minority government(But they have made some bold and courageous moves along a socialist path that have done them credit and Scotland good.) The Scots don't want the Tories, that has been clear for the past few years. An independent scotland would not, IMHO, be good for Scotland and for Britain.If there is a Tory government then quite likely there would be an independence "yes" from the Scotish people. John Major was quite a decent bloke up to a point.....his stance on "New age travellers" gave a bit of an indication and it's true he came from Brixton and not a particularly wealthy area of it, I know the flats quite well where he was brought up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Oct 09 - 06:45 AM ""Short memories some people and many other younger ones no experience of what it was like. (By the way I do remember the three day week and power cuts etc and am not excusing them)"" Short memories indeed........ The Ted Heath government was presented with an impossible position by labour. The incompetence and chicanery of the preceding labour government left Heath with the poison chalice of a crippled economy, and rampant demands for impossible pay increases from all powerful trades unions. In point of fact it was UNION activists who caused the three day week, and ultimately brought down the government, leaving the next incompetent labour administration to rack up interest rates to 17.9% and inflation to an all time high of 22.9% by 1979. There were also billions of pounds of debt to the IMF. Eighteen years of Tory government produced much that was wrong, BUT, when Tony Blair took over in 1997, he inherited interest rates of 5%, inflation at 2.5%, and no IMF debt whatever. Since that time Blair, and Brown have squandered the money that they had in reserve, sold of our gold reserves, spent millions on ineffective tweaks in areas best left alone, virtually destroyed the education system by loading teachers with every kind of work EXCEPT teaching, increased unemployment, raised government debt into the stratosphere. The single area where they have had a measure of success, is in the National Health Service, although even that is marred by the monumental cock-up which allowed GPs to earn in the region of £100,000 for doing less work. I don't think you need a long memory to access the above publicly recorded facts. Now, what were we saying about how good a job New Labour has done? For those who are worried about the Tories not taking care of the poorest in the country, or caring about the working man, I will just mention one New Labour example of caring socialism. The ten pence in the pound tax band. Arbitrarily removed without thought for the consequences, in order that those earning £35,000+ might have a tax reduction. For anyone on a fixed low income, such as a pensioner with a part time job, that doubled his income tax. At least the Tories cut income tax in favour of taxes on what you spend. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: GUEST,eric the viking Date: 04 Oct 09 - 05:01 AM Just seen David Cameron on Andrew Marr. Total complete waste of time. Avoided all the questions. Especially one about personal wealth (Which was a total skirting around his supposed £30,000,000). There is not ONE chance I would vote for his lot !! Cameron, the man with less answers than Brown!! If you think the rich are suddenly going to start giving to the poor (In terms of support etc) you have another think coming. The very wealthy, public school boy and man, connecting with the poor un-employed........................SOME CHANCE. There was not one complete answer no matter how hard he was pushed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: GUEST,eric the viking Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:17 AM "In point of fact it was UNION activists who caused the three day week." Not denying that fact. The unions have sometimes caused real problems for industry and have done much unnecessary damage but overall, all the gains in wages, employment conditions, holiday pay, workers rights etc, etc have been gained by the unions and fought for by the working people. They were NEVER given willingly. Any improvement in your working conditions has had to be fought for in the past. What ever the tories have "given" to the working people, they have given more to the richer sections of society and enhanced their lives to a greater degree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: The Sandman Date: 04 Oct 09 - 10:30 AM what is interesting here,in relation to the three day week,was that the miners leader Joe Gormley,was reporting back [according to the Guardian newspaper] to MI5 with details of the miers union meetings. RayBuckton[ASLEF] union leader,was also according to the Guardian reporting back to MI5. it is not just football thats a funny old game. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Oct 09 - 11:56 AM The three day week was great. Any civilised society should aspire to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: skarpi Date: 05 Oct 09 - 09:57 AM Dear Peter ,. this you wrote I can understand Skarpi's rage, but it was never the responsibility of a UK government to save Iceland's banks from themselves. The UK government couldn't even control its own banks - not that it should have had to do so. It was surely reasonable to expect the banks to take on some of the responsibility themselves, in return for the millions in bonuses that they paid Iand continue to pay) themselves. and I am just trying to explain this , we dont want UK to save Iceland , never said that . and this is my answear : UK and Holland is using the IMF against us , 1 : the IMF is not going to loan us until Icesave is save , 2 : UK And HOlland Are going work against our apply for EU , witch good for me :>)maybe not for someoneelse . 3 : and we got this comfirmed this morning on our radio from one of the party witch is in our covement. what I mean is this , you all want us to pay back the money , people lost , so do I . but if the UK and Holland are gonna play this game , the political answear is this and we got that also confirmed this morning , we will ask the IMF to leave Iceland , Icesave will go to court , and we will take our apply back for EU ,. simble as that . we will sail our sea . Now what was heard on this radio this morning , was that both UK and HOlland doesen´t want that way to happen , so what can they do , its simble Work with us instead against us , help us to solve Icesave with out but the nation into slavery , help us to " those who want" to go into EU , and get the wheels start runnin again , then we can pay back the money and start build up new and better Iceland . and for all, help us to get those basters who made this all happen to jail , take them to court if you have to , in London , most of them live there and for all I care throw them down the hole Angry I am yes , but not to the people of those countrys , I am angry at the political folks , its in favour for all to work as one not as three . may you all have a great day , smile through this and we will rise again :>) , I have lost my job , lost alot of saving , could loose my house soon , and my car , but still smiling and I am trying to think about doin as good out of all this as I can . All the best Skarpi Iceland . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Richard Bridge Date: 05 Oct 09 - 01:29 PM Don, I remember things being pretty damned good in the days of Wilson and CalorGas (and Barbara Castle - where would you be now with her pension schemes that the Milk Snatcher abolished?). The reason the Phillips curve got pushed to the right (I was saying then to my economics professors, at uni, and am still saying now) was that the unions had the power to press for wage increases, and the capitalists had the power to give themselves pay increases, so naturally the unions wanted to get as good a deal as the capitalists - and that is what the workers need to and must do in a capitalist system. Hence there was ratchet up. What should have happened, while the flight of capital was still capable of being controlled (exchange control was then still in force) was that dividends and management pay (and prices) should have been controlled, and then there would have been no need for double digit worker pay increases. The other possible would have been intentionally to default on international debt, but that would have meant a very sudden need for a balanced budget that could have been damaging. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Eric the Viking Date: 06 Oct 09 - 11:28 AM Well there are some things coming out of the tory party that are going to cause a row. The tories haven't changed. I love this idea of "make the buggers work"(Even if they are crippled). Pay freezes for the peasants, great ideas. Not much about...let's try and reduce the gap between the richest and the poorest............. It's always been well and good for the better off to tell the poorer how they should live when they have no experience of the daily struggle some people have just to exist. Cameron and clowns ltd with their millions telling someone on £65.00 a week how to live is the continual sick joke spouted by the well off. Off topic, but who decides who MI5 spy on if they are spying on the elected government? (The wealthy still pulling the strings) |
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Subject: Can someone recommend some forex trading resource? From: GUEST,DavidPepperman Date: 06 Oct 09 - 03:46 PM Hi fellas I am new to forex market and wanted to ask if anyone could give me some insight on the subject? What course would you recommend? What is the true income potential? Is it really that risky or not? What can I earn if I invest $500? I would be grateful for any info you may share. Thanks in advance! Regards, Dave. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: GUEST,eric the viking Date: 06 Oct 09 - 06:27 PM Guest David. Try this link. It might be just want you want. On the other hand if you send me your name, date of birth, place of birth and all bank details I am sure I can find a good investment for your $500 !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 06 Oct 09 - 07:49 PM ""Well there are some things coming out of the tory party that are going to cause a row. The tories haven't changed. I love this idea of "make the buggers work"(Even if they are crippled). Pay freezes for the peasants, great ideas. Not much about...let's try and reduce the gap between the richest and the poorest............. It's always been well and good for the better off to tell the poorer how they should live when they have no experience of the daily struggle some people have just to exist. Cameron and clowns ltd with their millions telling someone on £65.00 a week how to live is the continual sick joke spouted by the well off."" Bit off the plot there Eric. If you had been paying attention, you would have heard that the pay freeze is:- 1. Only for public sector employees. 2. Only for those public sector employees earning MORE than eighteen thousand a year (or over £364 per week) I don't see that as pay freezes for the peasants, do you? As for making the buggers work (crippled or not), that was a New Labour plan also. In fact everything that New Labour have put forward this year is planned to come into force after the general election, when somebody else can be blamed other than Gormless Gordon. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Eric the Viking Date: 07 Oct 09 - 04:54 PM As for being off the plot.........I heard and read the transcript. http://page.politicshome.com/uk/george_osborne_speech_to_conference.html By peasants I refer to people on less than the average wage, since it is they who suffer and are suffering most.(I use the term peasant not as an insult but as homogeneous descriptor which includes myself as I don't elevate myself to the ruling class.) There are about 1,000,000 public employees on £18000 pa or less. Many, many more earn only slightly more about another 1.5 million earn up to £25000).The figure of £364pwk shows how little that figure is in real spending terms (By the way that is pre tax, nat ins etc and NOT take home.) Why could they not choose a greater gross income before the freeze line? Say £22000 and above.It would have ensured that those earning around £425 a week (And arguably still less than the national average wage £479 (and private sector wage of £448, which figure is here only for comparison) had a better chance of economic survival. A greater number of people trying to keep a house and family together would stand a better chance. A family with two children trying to rent in London simply cannot afford to, similarly a mortgage to pay for a house at about £490 pm for a £92000 mortgage is beyond their reach.(Not many houses at this price) I am not arguing about private sector pay which I agree is also poor for the majority and without previous union representation and struggles would be even poorer. Public sector workers form only about 20-25% (5.8 million)of the total workforce for Britain. My point of view is that when the government (That is to say, those who wish to become..) imposes a pay freeze for less than average waged (public) workers, then it will be all too easy (And has already happened in much of the private sector) to curb wages.Employees on more than avarage wages will be far better able to sustain the problems we are facing. It would have been far better to hit the bigger money people. Who can stand the loss easier? A wealthy person with a huge income at their disposal or someone who has little (in comparison) in the first place? Wow a pay freeze when I earn £100000 plus that will make a tiny dent in my life, oh a pay freeze on my £24000 that will make a huge difference when everything gets eaten away by inflation and taxes !!! What other joyous news?.....Oh yes, work until you die. (Extend working life to save paying pensions. Of course if you've plenty 'O' dosh, you can pack up when you like and go off and enjoy yourself. Nothing about, we will freeze huge pension pay-offs for the rich I notice. There are about 2.8 million on incapacity benefit and almost4 million un-employed. If you take those on incapacity benefit and get them ready to work (By what ever means) then the un-employed figure rises, but there are still less and less jobs available. They lead a poor enough (Most of them) life style anyway and whilst the total bill for this benefit may be huge, it is only small in real terms for those receiving it. (A single euro fighter costs £66,000,000) Before the huge critisism of the those on incapacity benefit and the un-employed that takes place and does so daily(long or short term) just count yourself lucky if you don't join them.Then you may not be so keen to have your benefits stopped etc. As I said then, same old Tories, drinking champange while the rest of us drink water............... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 07 Oct 09 - 05:35 PM Eric, I have a great deal of respect for your opinions as a rule, but you do yourself no favours by being selective with the truth to slant the picture. ""What other joyous news?.....Oh yes, work until you die. (Extend working life to save paying pensions. Of course if you've plenty 'O' dosh, you can pack up when you like and go off and enjoy yourself. Nothing about, we will freeze huge pension pay-offs for the rich I notice."" Are you expecting all those who are working between the ages of 65, and 66 to drop dead then? Who'd have thought one year extra would be lethal? Kinda forgetting that this was on New Labour's agenda aren't we? But as I said above, placed by Gordon so far in the future that he can be sure HE won't get the flak. Cameron at least had the guts to bring it forward to a time when HE will carry the can. Besides Eric, one year extra will increase the pension pots such that all those retiring at 66 will get a bit more dosh every week. How is that a negative thing, when they will be better off for the rest of their lives (admittedly not hugely so) in return for one year. You also apparently missed the bit where he said that top wage earners would eventually have to have their salaries approved by the chancellor if they exceeded that of the Prime Minister, which would knock on to lower pensions. Now of course all this COULD be so much hot air, but what have you been getting from Tony B Liar, and Gordon Brown-Nose for the last twelve years? To all those who claim there is no substance to Cameron, and he's just a smooth operator, WHEN was the last time a LABOUR leader announced measures which he knew COULD COST HIM AN ELECTION, unless the public had the sense to see that he was right?......That's right....NEVER! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Eric the Viking Date: 07 Oct 09 - 07:16 PM Sorry Don... This is a bit of a ramble...(Doing a couple of other tasks at the same time) and my slant is no less than others choose to do in their chosen direction
Work till you die.... AN exageration for alarmist sake, yet it wasn't so long ago it was true in Britain and as you can see below there are already plans afoot to increase working life. (But no less than..."Are you expecting all those who are working between the ages of 65, and 66 to drop dead then? With regard to the planned increases in retirement age..There is nothing new here. The age at which people will get the state pension is already determined. If you are 40 you need to work until you are 67 if you are 30 you need to work until you are 67 if you are 20 you will need to work until you are 68 !!(Check with DWP pension age calculator) For many these extra years could be a death knell. There are many jobs which lead to burn out !! It might be relatively easy standing in a shop or a library or even some factories, there are less demanding jobs. Of course if you are in one of the elite professions,(Mp's, legal, civil service etc) then life is generally easy any way. Police was retirement at 55 (Now 60 and 65), Military retire similarly though high rank officers can continue but you can retire with much less service; officers after 16 years and ordinary forces after 22 years.But retire at 55(generally......going to make them stay in the army then David?) Teachers,many of them get burnt out, nurses, doctors etc, etc and it isn't just the professions. I've known brickies struggling at 55 knackered from hard labour as well as miners and other manual workers...the extra year could mean death. "You also apparently missed the bit where he said that top wage earners would eventually have to have their salaries approved by the chancellor if they exceeded that of the Prime Minister, which would knock on to lower pensions." (Is that the politics of greed and envy?) Actually I didn't miss it, but I gave it little thought of merit. What he was saying in oblique terms was that as PM and Co he was going to be the top wage earner !! Anyone else would have to ask if they could have more money than him. (Can you seriously see the boss of network rail, the boss of the BBC going up and asking to keep their present salaries? Not a chance !! What is going to happen when the boss of Tory controlled Buckingham county council on £220,000 a year gets told.....sorry mate you've got a pay cut after his pay freeze? It won't work, it won't wash and it won't be carried through. These people would go to the private sector with it's huge rewards (for failure) such as banking etc. (The Tory friendship club in the city is always there) If you have read my posts you will know that I have always thought working towards equality was a good thing, greed over care for others bad. I have experience of the Tories, on a more personal level than I wish to discuss here and I don't trust them for their self centrered, divisive, ruling class attitude that generally pervades and will eventually rise again to show the old Tory is still there. Unlike new labour which changed from left to middle right(Sickeningly), the Tories have little place to move to. They will certainly not move to anything left of where they are now. I do not think they can move much further to the right, past Thatcher anyway. Their creed will always remain the same. You will also know I have nothing good to say about B Liar and express disapointment as to how things have turned out for the ordinary people of this country. And as for Cameron. The only thing he lacks is real power, he already has the money !! (£30,000,000 is enough to last anyone a lifetime, ask BLiar and his greedy Mrs!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 08 Oct 09 - 03:23 PM Agree with you about oily Tony, but, much as I dislike the lady, I believe Cherie is doing a whole lot of legal representation Pro Bono Publici. I think she has far greater moral compass than her conniving shark of a husband. I'm not going to continue the debate about Cameron. We won't agree on that one. I find it hard to see how he can be worse than the last two. Time, however, will tell. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: GUEST,eric the viking Date: 08 Oct 09 - 05:48 PM Don.I agree we'll differ about much and to draw it out towards an unpleasant end where it might become sniping rather than debate would be a sad end to some good exchages.Yes, Cherie has done some splendid work on behalf of many women's groups I agree. Time of course will tell. Best wishes. |
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Subject: What Workout Do You Suggest To Bulk Up? From: GUEST,JasonXMan Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:51 PM I have been testing a couple of different workouts to specifically get my shoulder's ripped? The role lift and dead weight isn't really doing anything for me, does anyone suggest any lift in particular for me to build up my shoulders? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:17 PM The clever bit is that taking incapacity benefit from people who have been determined by some hired hatchet man to be "capable of seeking work" will not mean that they will be able to get work, because the jobs aren't going to be there that they could arguably do. It will just be a way of saving money - by taking it from some of the poorest and most damaged members of society. "Were all in it together" - if that was more than an empty slogan it ought to mean the average salary becoming the maximum salary for anyone for the duration of the crisis. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: Bonzo3legs Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:31 PM Interesting how Oxford University has slipped down the table of best university because it is ordered by this hideous government to dumb down in order to make it more accessible to the oiks. Interesting how Cambridge has stuck two fingers up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Gordon Brown's Labour conference From: DMcG Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:25 AM That Conservative slogan makes me think of the revised slogans from "Animal Farm": We are all in it together, but some are more in it than others. |
