Stop the English Defence League

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: jeddy
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 05:40 PM

very trueMG, but look at what the church once did.

some of the countries that have apperently converted to christianity (parts of afrika) still have barbaric practices.

i am no expert on religion, i am sure that there are people here who are, or at least know alot more than i do.

this is what i was asking that maybe islam is still undergoing big changes, as did the church of christianity.


did anyone go to manchester today?????
it looked a nightmare, but not overly violent?

have a great night all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:03 PM

No, I think it was missing them that did that.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:03 PM

'islam, like christianiny is a peaceful religion. that has been corupted by the few. well nowadays anyway. Jeddy'

Let me say first off that I loathe & despise EDL & all it stands for & all its works. It cannot and must not be tolerated in a decent society.

Nevertheless, Jade: How can your above statement be reconciled with the fact that, without any concealment or apparent shame, in many Islamic societies [Saudi Arabia, N Nigeria, parts of Malaysia]:

Women are publicly stoned to death for adultery [which can mean giving birth to an illegitimate child as a result of rape];
Thieves have their hands publicly amputated;
Women are publicly flogged or caned for such appalling offences as drinking beer or being out in public with non-relations of the opposite sex;
A respected television personality was recently sentenced to be publicly flogged for having stated his religious convictions as part of his programme???

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't sound very peace-loving to me...

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:07 PM

Just a minor point but wasn't it shooting at varieties of the IRA that made things worse?

L in C

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:11 PM

It's the unsuspected 4*2 (wood, not rhyming slang) agross the back of the head that tends to see off martial arts experts with a belief in thier own immortality.

And speaking of paramilitary nutters who need to be shot I see the Real IRA or whatever it calls itself was out with pistols for a funeral recently.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: kendall
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:09 PM

Every one needs a dog to kick. sigh

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:20 PM

Crap! Do you err often have to use all that kinda stuff where you live Rap? Sounds like one hell of a bear pit man :-/ Having said that there are rough areas in UK too, people carry knives and knuckldusters etc. There are increasing numbers of shootings. Even with an arsenal at your disposal, there's still probably not an awful lot that's gonna stop someone suddenly bottling you, if you're on a night out in the wrong part of town.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:08 PM

"I tend to carry (if I must) pistols and very nasty knives and brass knuckles and blackjacks and weighted clubs/sticks. Moreover, I unfortunately know how to use them well and have the will to do so if I must."

Why would I want to know that and why should I care?

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:03 PM

The welsh version of the fascist EDL intends to swagger through my hometown of Swansea on saturday the 17th October.

These are racist and fascist thugs and are close allies of the BNP.Some of their 'leading ' figures are BNP members.

Their aim is to intimidate or attack members of ethnic minorities and they won't be making any distinction between muslims,hindus, sikhs or others. Previous demonstrations have seen these violent hooligans   attack asian people, chant 'sieg heil' and give the nazi salute.

These thugs are the same sort of people as Moseleys blackshirts who targeted Jews in the 1930s and the nazi National Front thugs who tried to terrorise asians in the 1970s.

The local 'Unite Against Fascism' group in Swansea has issued a call to all anti fascists to assemble outside the YMCA on St Helens Road at 4pm on saturday 17th October . Next week these WDL thugs are targeting the local mosque; in the future it could be a temple or synagogue or chapel.Today the target are muslims next it could be Eastern Europeans, gays or Jews.

All anti fascists and anti racists are invited along to make the counter demonstration as large and as effective as possible!
Ifor

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: jeddy
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:44 AM

i know that no facist can be trusted, that is their nature.
but you have to admit that the EDL are alot more see through than the BNP right now. as far as i can tell the BNP are TRYING to gain some respectability, the EDL are not.

the BNP are extremely racist, behind closed doors. the EDL don't give a toss who knows they are.

that was the only thing i was trying to say.

the EDL hide behind such a thin veil of protecting this wonderful country from the extremists, that it is laughable.
no one who has heard of them will ever believe such crap. it is blanatly ovbvious that they are just racists thugs.
do a spot of digging and it becomes even more obvious.

ever since the BNP have tried to distance themselves from the violence, all the simple minded thugs have to go somewhere and sadly there will always be a EDL or something similar.

these people have been routed out of football, they have been routed out of the BNP at least in public and cannot get away with the sort of violence they once could.

we should be looking at what we can do about extremists from every walk of life rather than concentrating on one religion.
for one thing, the majority of muslims HATE the extremists just as much as any decent person in society.

islam, like christianiny is a peaceful religion. that has been corupted by the few. well nowadays anyway.

i would hate to see a parody of the old christain ways coming back, but being philosophical maybe thats what needs to happen in order to live in harmony?
i mean how long did it take the church to say that that were wrong for the persicution of anyone who wasn't a christain? have they ever said sorry? not sure.

ok, brain going round in circles here so i am off before get dizzy.

have a great day all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:01 AM

Jeddy "they are sort of a more honest version of the BNP."

The EDL are every bit as dishonest as the BNP. Both groups claim not to be anti-Islamic, but the actions of both groups completely belie their stance. "EG., the BBCs'File on Four recently did an expose of the EDL. The programme played a recording of some of these "patriots" chanting "Allah, Allah. Who the fuck is Allah?". If that's an example of religious tolerance, leave me out.

Is the EDL a BNP front? I'm not sure. I certainly hear a lot of BNP rhetoric in the things they say, and the way they say them. And I'm pretty convinced that large numbers of EDL supporters are also BNP members.

Overall, I don't think it's important whether the EDL is allied to the BNP, officially or otherwise. Historically, fascist parties, whether or not they try to pursue a constitutional road to power, have always had their paramilitary thugs. The BNP is different in that public opposition to fascism has forced it to at least try and pass itself off as non-violent and non-paramilitary. Well, given the amount of verbal excrement they come out with, and the hatred they've been whipping up, the emergence of something like the EDL was inevitable. So whether the far right wanted a para-military wing or not, it has now got one.

BTW., for anyone going to Manchester tomorrow. The word on the grapevine is that it is likely to be pretty violent. And the violence wil be coming not just from the fascists, but from nutters among our own ranks, who are hell bent on causing trouble.

If you're going, take care, and don't get involved in any confrontations. Mixing it with them will do our cause no good at all.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 08:31 PM

I tend to carry (if I must) pistols and very nasty knives and brass knuckles and blackjacks and weighted clubs/sticks. Moreover, I unfortunately know how to use them well and have the will to do so if I must.

Of course, I don't live in the UK and I have a permit to carry such things concealed.

Mind you, I think this EDL group ranks up there with the US's "Aryan Nations" and KKK. I think ALL hate organizations are wrong and I really can't support any of them.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 02:43 PM

They recruit "soccer casuals" which is code for skinheads who have bought slacks and a V-neck pullover of a brand I forget and grown the hair from skin to suede and do not wear bovver boots - but do tend to carry knives and razors.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: GUEST,Anon
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 02:30 PM

The English Defence League pretends that it is only opposed to extremist muslims, not to all muslims or all ethnic minorities (unlike the BNP which is anti anyone who isn't white-English).

However, at the second demo in Birmingham recently the EDL supporters were chanting things like 'you can shove your f*****g Allah up your a**e' (this was even reported and criticised by the Birmingham Post which is a fairly right-wing newspaper). So they're obviously just into hatred of ethnic minorities in general, whether extremist or not. In fact, having seen them they remind me a lot of the old National Front from the 1970s - just stirring up trouble and looking for a fight, without the political aspirations of the BNP.

I can understand that there may be valid reasons to oppose some of the more extremist views of muslims or any other religious fanatics, but the EDL is definitely not the way to do it.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 02:23 PM

Tug the Cox,

He can certainly speak for himself, but knowing Rapaire's values are those that you listed, I believe he might have been indirectly suggesting that you add more information to your post so that people wouldn't have to go to another website to find out what the EDL is all about.

**

Here's the hyperlink to that website:

http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/together

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 02:06 PM

Rapaire asked

Who or what is the EDL and why should I care?


    I would only know why you should care if was aware of your value system and personal morality. If these include honesty, compassion, inclusivity, lack of prejudice, justice and care for your fellow humans, the care, really care. ( the EDL were described fully in the link in thr OP.)

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: jeddy
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 01:44 PM

sorry for the confusion.
i did mean that dave but at least the ELD isn't denying what they are about, was all i meant.

horrible scum the lot of them, however, thugs pretending to be nice is often believable by the gulible. these thugs are at least thugs on the outside too.

TCA

jade x x x x x

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Folkiedave
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 01:06 PM

Or you could also describe them as the BNP in a guise which allows them more licence for thuggery. They recruit from amongst the more knuckle dragging of the BNP and football hooligans.

And to avoid mis-understanding, neither group has an ounce of honesty in them.

See here.

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: jeddy
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 12:49 PM

the EDL is basically an anti islamic group.
they are sort of a more honest version of the BNP.

as far as i am aware they beleive that all muslims are terrorists and they should all be deported.

http://www.englishdefenceleague.org/index.html

10th oct manchester demo. please be careful to those who are going.

take care all

jade x x x x

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 11:29 AM

Who or what is the EDL and why should I care?

Subject: RE: Stop the English Defence League
From: theleveller
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 11:25 AM

Done!

Subject: Stop the English Defence League
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 10:22 AM

Go to this site to sign a letter to the press.


http://action.hopenothate.org.uk/page/s/together