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BS: History of US radical religious right
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Donuel Date: 14 Oct 09 - 01:21 PM Since everyone else is doing it, I too have decided to add a new parable to the Bible. __________________________________________________________________ Paul was standing on the beach when Jesus appraoched from the sea. Jesus: Shalom Paul! Paul: Shalom Jesus. I thought that was you. Jesus: Oy it sure is a beautiful day. Paul: Whats new? Jesus: While taking a walk, the sea spoke to me. Paul: Really, what did it say? Jesus: She said that every drop of water on Earth is like a child of God and able to give life to the world like religion to the soul, but should we corrupt her with but one drop of Evanoxia, all the water would become poison and be an abomination to God. Paul: Jeez! What did the sea mean by that? Jesus held a small bottle and carefully extracted a needle bearing one drop of fluid. He held the trembling drop upon the needle for a moment and then let it drop into the surf. Immediately the sea began to turn a sickly red and the waters began to froth. The entire sea had turned a foul stenching red from horizon to horizon in the span of taking one deep breath. Paul: Jesus, what was that? Jesus: That was but one drop of politics. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Oct 09 - 12:57 PM "..it's also clear that the extremist Jews are not aligned entirely with Christians of any sort either." They mumble different words while they wallow around on their knees or bang their heads on the floor, but other than that, what's the differnece? |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 14 Oct 09 - 12:51 PM Sometimes it's necessary to use the distinctions they themselves use when referring to themselves just to keep track of who is doing what. They're not all doing the same things, and they don't all have the same agendas, although the Christian and Jewish extremists are more aligned in their beliefs and practices than either is with Muslim extremists. But the harassment of people who aren't Christian in the US military is being done by people calling themselves Christians only, and they are harassing Jews (among others), so it's very clear that the extremist Christians are not aligned entirely with Jews of any sort. And the extremist Jews are treating the Christians in Palestine no better than they are the Muslims there, to it's also clear that the extremist Jews are not aligned entirely with Christians of any sort either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 14 Oct 09 - 12:43 PM I think it would be helpfull to just drop the "Jewish" or "Christain" when talking about the radical right... They are neither... They are misguided people who have relinguished, for the most part, all ability for independent thought to despots... Yes, they are radical right... But that is it... The religion part is nothin' but a smoke and mirrors shield they usde to justify their anti-human values... Same goes for "Islamic" radical right... Islam does not teach the dogma that the Taliban, as is tyhe case with the so called Christain Right, uses in it's intolerance to any view points but their own little twisted ones that, BTW, are motivated my a thirst for power amd supremecy, not religion... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 14 Oct 09 - 12:35 PM Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would just point out that some people make a religion out of hating religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Oct 09 - 12:31 PM Working under the theory that it takes a clear mind to consistantly solve problems, I'll simply state that as soon as Blumenthal recognizes religion as the problem, I'll respect his work as well. Until that time he'll remain just another participant in the food fight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 14 Oct 09 - 12:10 PM Blumenthal has been described here in this thread as both an atheist and someone who is hopelessly addicted to the ancient superstition of Judaism. Personally, I don't care what his beliefs are. I respect his work. He goes after Jewish extremists as much as he does Christian extremists. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 14 Oct 09 - 10:16 AM It would be very nice if we could pull this thing off the way that Ghandi and King drew it up on the chalkboard but... ...those were very much different situations... The radical right was by no means as armed as it is now... The NRQA wasn't pounding propaganda into their thought-less little brains 24/7 about how they needed to get bigger and badder guns because the governemnt/liberals/elitists were coing to get them and take away their guns... Guns, guns, guns... I mean, let's do a little review here... Since the 60's, whcih BTW was the last time that the pedulum swung toward liberalism/humanism there has been one political assasination after another of liberals/humanists... And look where it has taken US??? Hey, would one think that we would have gotten to this place in history had JFK, RFK and MLK not been assasinated??? These assasinations weren't just 3 men... These assasinations were the hopes and dreams of over 100 million people... Three bullets brought down "the movement"... Three lousy friggin' bullets... Now we have an army of looney zombies armed to the teeth... They are so removed from critical *thinking* that they show up at public events with semi-automatic weapons strapp0ed to their legs like Rambo... Why??? Because we have collectively made an exception for these radical right zombies/martyrs (with papers in order)... How could this happen??? Guns, guns, guns... Right here in my rural county one such radical right zombie thought it was perfectly okay to fire thousands and thousands of live rounds of heavy duty ammo in my6 and my wife's direction... When the bullets would fly by us, sure, I'd call the law... The law would come and basically tell US over and over, "If the guy shoots at US we'll either arrest him or return fire" then the law would leave US to dodging this man's insanity... That's what I mean here... The US has slowing succumbed to it being pertfectly okay for radical righties to do what they want with guns... But let some lefties take a page out of the RR's (radical right) play book and the reaction is much different... Think back to the 60's when if any leftie's group t5alked about arming themselves for self defense that that group was branded as a revoultionary group to be erradicated??? Hmmmmmmmm???? So it's okay for the barinless RR to be armed but not okay for the left to be armed??? That creates an unlevel playing field... _____________________________________________________________________ As for the link that Carol put up, yes, I did listen to the entire interview... Couldn't find much there to disagree with other than I wouldn't put LaRouche in with the RR'ers... Radical nutball??? Yes... But not exactly a rightie on all the issues... I know alo of LaRouchies and they ain't that easy to pin down... True believers??? Yeah, just a hodgepodge of beliefs... Radical??? Yeah, but radical on both ends of the political spectrum... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 14 Oct 09 - 10:14 AM "Here's a great interview with Max Blumenthal on his book..." Except Max Blumenthal is hopelessly addicted to the ancient superstition of Judaism, so he comes to the discussion with a giant credibility problem of his own. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Andrez Date: 13 Oct 09 - 11:27 PM In the words of St Bragg, its useful to remember: "When one voice rules the nation Just because they're on top of the pile Doesn't mean their vision is the clearest" I think I hear you care Bobert, along the lines of your own logic............ " And the best of all this bad bunch Are shouting to be heard Above the sound of ideologies clashing" But in the end guns dont solve problems, they perpetuate them and give credence to the ideas behind the guns. Look at the ongoing Middle east crisis and all the macho posturing by both sides over the bodies of men. women and children! Neither side is right in that context. Although I accept that staring down the barrel of a gun held by a loony or right or left persuasion puts you into a very "here and now" type of situation and that in addition if I had a gun and needed to defend my family, I might use it as a last resort, the problem has to do with the ideas and values that the gun supporters (on both sides) are defending or promoting in different ways, at different levels of society. Look at how the BNP work in the UK or our own One Nation, or National party here in Australia as examples of this. Religion gives these ideas and values legitimacy and status and frequently forms a package of ready made beliefs that people who dont have the skills, education or inclination to think things through for themselves take up and use to make sense of the world around them. This leaves them open to manipulation by those who actually understand this process and use it to further their own ends that usually boil down to money and power. The message once again is.... dont get sucked in by the voices of whoever happens to be shouting loudest and try and keep some perspective on what is happening in your community or country. Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 13 Oct 09 - 09:18 PM The talk he gives in the link in my opening post is very good, too, and a lot more complete, if it hadn't been listened to yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 13 Oct 09 - 08:15 PM Good interview... I especially enjoyed his bringing up Eric Hoffer's "True Believer" which I have used many times here in Mudville to describe folks who are perfectly willing to turn over their own abilitities to ***think*** for themselves... This is a point I have brought up here in this thread... Also Francis Schaffer in his dieing days saying the very same things... It's really about zombies... No religion involved here... Just some very angry and confused people ready and willing to strap on suicide bombs... This is disturbing... This is exactly what them brownshirts were about... Some things just don't change... Yeah, I remember going to Richmond to college in the 60'sd and one night while trying to leasrn the area came upon a KKK ralley... I remember a huge sign on a road leading to Varina that read "Niggers and Communists Beware" with the crosshairs of a rifle painted next to those words... I mean, yeah, the hoods have been replaced and the signs are no longer up but things haven't changed all that much and I do worry that these radical righties are so far removed from independent thought that our country is indeed on the doorstep of abother round of right wingers thinking (ha) that it's perfectly okay to drag a gay guy down a dirt road with a pickup truck, or to shoot a black man who happens to also be the prsdient or to kil anyone who does not fit the mold of what these zombies are told is out of the accepted mainstream... And, yeah, I have struggled with my views on guns but then again there are more ways to interpret The Who's warnings to "not be fooled again"... *Right* now, the right knows that lefties won't shoot back... That empowers them... No, I am not advocating stooping to the mindless levels of the right but there is a difference between shooting first and shooting back... The righties need a wake up call and the left arming itself against the next round of political assasianations and killings of anyone that does not fit the right's idea of ideal it think might be an important step toward making the rightie, ahhhh, ***think*** about the consequences of their behaviors... Meanwhile, yeah, forget relgion... The radical right is allready at war with our country and as they loose more and more elections they are going to be even angrier... If that is possible... Anger + ignorance = a dangerous combination... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 13 Oct 09 - 07:26 PM Here's a great interview with Max Blumenthal on his book... Republican Gomorrah |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:42 PM Don't think it matters all that much, Carol... Just seems that if we are discussing "history of US radical religious right" seems that most of the folks that coem to mind are those who call themselves Christain... BTW, seein' as this is a discussion of history it should be pointed out that many Naziz and sypathizers considered themselves Christain... It should also be pointed out that, yes, the Republican Party opened its arms to these folks and that it was these folks who first organized the Heritage Foundation, a right wing organization... In Ray Wylie Hubbard's song about dreamin' of being in Hell he writes about a conversation he is having with the devil: "Well, tell me this, hot shot, which religion is the truest?"... ()devil)"Hard to say, Budda wasn't a Christain but Jesus would have made a good Buddist"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Oct 09 - 05:58 PM And well you didn't. Christianity isn't the only bad religion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 13 Oct 09 - 02:46 PM Which is why I didn't include the word, "Christian" in my opening post or in the thread's title. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 13 Oct 09 - 02:21 PM "I don't believe that there is such a thing as the "religious" right..." Well they certainly seem to embody an awful lot of things usually rejected by traditional Christian teaching. Whilst simultaneously claiming JC as their very own personal saviour (personal as in meaning 'MINE but not yours', rather than 'a close or intimate relationship'). Some people get upset at the supposed "Christian-bashing" on this site. But I think whatever it is, that's being "bashed" (or indeed simply criticised) has probably got very little to do with what most of the rest of the worlds Christians, would recognise as representative of genuine Christian teaching or practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Oct 09 - 02:20 PM "I don't know of any religions that preach imperialism and corporatism..." That's because they're sneaky. It's not what they preach, it's what they practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 13 Oct 09 - 01:45 PM And if I haven't made myself perfectly clear, I don't believe that there is such a thing as the "religious" right... I don't know of any religions that preach imperialism and corporatism yet it seems that the religiuos (ha) right, at least in the US, never met a war not worth fighting or a corporation with the big bucks that was distainfull... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 13 Oct 09 - 12:45 PM George W Bush cured me of any ideas I ever had about gun control. Of course, I don't call myself a liberal, but I used to favor gun control. Interestingly, whether or not one considers advocating for gun control a liberal or conservative principle sometimes depends on what country they are from. JtS (Canadian) says that gun control is a conservative principle, and that allowing people to have whatever guns they want is very liberal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 13 Oct 09 - 10:09 AM And now the Religious Right and the Jews in Congress want to send more troops to Afghanistan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 13 Oct 09 - 08:27 AM Well, Andrez, when our very own Rapaire stated exactly what I have states a few years back I was shocked... Yeah, shocked... Guns flew in the face of everything I came to learn about change and peace in the 60's... It flew in the face of the teachings of Dr. King... It flew in the face of the teaching of Jesus, of Ghandi, of all the folks who I came to respect... As things have progressed (ha) digressed since tyhe Reagan Revolution (ha), make that the Reagan Reaction, it seems that the one common denominator we find in the rightwing community is that they not only own guns but they want everyone else to ***know*** they own guns... Given our history of the radical right using assasination as a tool to effect change then it is not an unreasonable position for the left to take a page out of their play book... And the sooner the better... Hey, I'm not saying that the left has to go out and assasinate anyone... I am saying that Mao was somewhat correct in saying that power comes from the barrel of a gun... One doesn't have to shoot it at anyone for that power to be achieved... (But Bodert, haven't you time and again argued against gun ownership???) Well, not exactly... I have argued for gun control whereby we collectively pass and impliment laws that keep guns out of the hands of violent people, where at least hand guns are registered and where people have to pass gun safety classes before they can own guns... This, in no way, prevents the left from doing what the right has done for the last 30 some years and levels the playing field... Right now we have alot of, yeah, relgious (my butt) loonies thinking because they have guns that their opinions mean more than lefties... I mean, llok at the guy who showed up at an event where the president was going to speak with a semi-automatic starpped to his leg... Though somewhat shocking this radical rightie wasn't arrested... Why???... Had a leftie done the same back during the Bush administartion then that leftie would have been shot or arrested... See, what we as progressives have is a Catch 22... Society has accepted that the radical right is armed and dangerous... This is why the radical right can own FOX and broadcast it's radical right message 24/7 over the ***public airwaves***... This is in violation of the the origina FCC charter, BTW... So, yeah, with a heavy heart, I now see that my buddy, Rap, was/is absolutely correct... The radical right, be they just loonies or religious loonies, has an unfair advantage and that is that they are armed... I hate that it is this way but me hating it does not change it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Mr Happy Date: 13 Oct 09 - 07:25 AM A classic example of the abuse of religion is its manipulation as a form of control of the gullible by powerful & unscrupulous groups globally |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Andrez Date: 13 Oct 09 - 07:12 AM Boberts confused polemic as well as many others above reminds me of the old quote: Fighting for peace is like F**king for virginity". Its not literally the same but........ for liberals and progressives to take up with guns just pulls you into the muck just like the people you are criticising making you no better than they are. Lighten up guys! Cheers, Andrez |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 12 Oct 09 - 09:28 PM Well, yeah... Lotta thse folks have found their way into local politics... Especially school boards where just about anyone can get appointed/elected if they are willing to make an effort... I think it is harder at the ligher levels of power but I do fully appreciate those folks out there who have to deal with righties who have infiltrated school boards in particular... Lets face it... There is a lot of Talibanish thinking in the United States... Of course these people would be horrified and would threaten to kill you if you made that claim to their face... But that's just the effects of the propaganda... As for Reconstrtionist Christians??? Fancy term for liars... What else... Oh yeah... Seeing as the Fox/Republican Complex has so tied itself to the votes and ollars from these folks I don't think that one can discuss this subject in some kinda vacuum... It is reality... To not look at it this way is like watching a band and not listening to half the instuments 'cause you like the others more... Can't be done... One cannot discuss the "radical religious right" without acknowledging that the Republican Party is using them like pawns... And in doing so these "radical religiou right" folks are empowered, pawns or not... But, yes, there is a movement of very radicalized people on the right world wide... This is the fight the US finds itself in the middle of as we speak... The one common denominator, however, is this view that each holds that their "relgion is the trueist" amd that being a given then anything that they do in the name of that relegion is just fine and dandy... It is some very screwed up, intolerant thinking but it is what they think... But the larger issue is "thinking" itself... Another common denominator is that thinking is a bad thing for the common folks... BTW, this is not new... Historically we have had times like these where the common man was just 'sposed to sit back and let the "smart people" do the thinking... This was pre-romantics... Remember the tall cathedrals... There was a psychological reason for them being so tall... The Catholic Church wanted people to feel small... And to not question... To not think... Just let the popes and high priests do that heavy liftin', folks... Just put yer money in the plate and go out and earn some more to put in the plate... What we have going on is exactly that... The Taliban does not want you to think... And make no bones about it... The Taliban is a radical right organization... The Christain Right does not want you to think either... And yes... The Republican Party, backed by the Christain Right, does not want you to think either... And so, yeah, we have school boards all over this country where these Tasliban/Christains have found an area where they can exert their don't-think-because-we-have-it-under-control power over lots of people... I'd say it's about time for progressives and liberals to start buying guns and let it be known that we are buying guns... Seems that is about the only way that the radical right, which BTW is way ahead of the liberal side in gun ownership, will see that liberals/progressives aren't willing to relinquish their rights to think and have say over how things go in their communities... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Alice Date: 12 Oct 09 - 07:48 PM I was responding to what you wrote... "to my knowledge we haven't had many of these folks who have actaully made it into eleted office" - so now your are saying you agree that many radical religious right have been elected? Think of all the governors and state legislators and even school board members who have been elected and are radical religious right. We have a problem with school text books in this country because there are so many who want to have creationism taught instead of science. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 07:47 PM Again, I would recommend actually reading the thread and the material provided in it. This movement exists outside of the Republican party and independently of it, and it exists in other countries besides the US. George W Bush is a Christian Reconstructionist. Now, many Christians might say that that is the same thing as not being a Christian, but it is groups like that one that this thread is about, and not the forms of Christianity that most Christians would probably consider to be real the Christianity. This is why I titled the thread, "radical religious right" rather than "the Christian right". Unfortunately, however, the movement is growing in power and influence, and in many respects, IT controls the Republicans and not the other way around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 12 Oct 09 - 07:40 PM Well, Alice, yeah... But if there wasn't so much money in politics I doubt if the C Street Cult would exist... I mean, where is the Christ in what they have done... Nowhere... I think we need to keep in mind that George Bush wrote the book on faking being a man of Faith... Faith my ass!!! George Bush is/was no more a Christain than I am an astronuat... No, what his daddy did was send the little coke-head weizel into the South to organize, ahhhh, Christain voters... So waalaa, the coke-head weizel becomes a Christain??? Want to buy a bridge??? The Republican Party is the most un-Christ party that I can think of... They do not support Christ-like postions... No, they ***use*** Christianity and Christains with a great deal of distain and disrespect... They work rednecks up into a lather over seinseless stuff... Hey, wee saw them last month at the town mettings... These folks would probably say they are strong Christains... Bullshit... Christ would have run them all off... Yeah, Jesus didn't happen to like folks using the temples to do business but that is exactly what the Republicans have done... The Southern churches and their members have become a major funding source for the Republican Party... No, this thing is all about money... And ways that Republicans can continue their heathenous ways while mascarading as, ahhh, Christains wjile laughing up their sleeves at the dumb ignorant folks who really do have some core beliefs but are too ignorant to know that they are being used... C Street was nothin but a training center for phony politicans to hone up on their phony Christianity... No, it was more... It was a place for these liars to shack up with their mistresses... My bad... Jesus would have burned the joint to the ground... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 07:08 PM We certainly have had many of them in elected office! Including George W Bush and several members of congress. How about reading the thread, huh? And watching the videos. It's all there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Alice Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:58 PM You are forgetting all the Congressmen who are in the C Street cult, Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:45 PM Me thinks this a chicken and the egg arguement, Carol... Now if Jerry Falwell had become a US Senator I might buy into that but to my knowledge we haven't had many of these folks who have actaully made it into eleted office... But sure, radical or not is like splitting hairs... It doesn't take too much of a shove to get a religios right to become a radical religious right... Just a little more propaganda in the right, ahhhh, correct places and waalaa... Suicide bomber... But I am concerned that the country is headed for another round of righties thinkin' that assasinating progressives is just peachy... They have been killing abortion doctors for a couple decades now but have fairly well had the federal governemnt locked up... Now that has changed and they are real pissed off... These folks don't like sharing power... And they hate progressives being in power... And they think that the 1st and 2nd Ammendments were written especially for them... Very bad combinations... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:35 PM I disagree. Some of them are being used by a political machine that doesn't care about them at all. But some of them are people with a particular religious ideology who are using the political system to promote their agenda of religious supremacism. I think the difference between those two groups is the difference between the terms "religious right" and "radical religious right". And I think that difference is a very important one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Bobert Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:27 PM Me thinks that alot of folks here are caught in a trap... The "religious right" is nothin' more than a block of voters that certain Mostly Republican politicans ***use*** to keep them in office and those big corporate check$ comin' in... (But this block is a block of real people, Bobert...) Yes, it is a block of real people who, BTW, are so ignorant of how they are being used that they can not be considered part of an "informed electorate"... Most, if they lived in Afganistan or Irag, would be the kind of folks that al-qeada or the Taliban would recruit as suicide bombers... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:09 PM Having said that, though, I am definitely in favor of a very strong separation of church and state in my own country. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:06 PM I think I would say that spirituality and politics don't mix. But it seems to me that throughout history, religion and politics has been inextricably intertwined. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Andrez Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:02 PM This thread seems even worse than hidigibaugh's original Bible Prophecy thread! I wish people would just get one thing: Religion and Politics DONT mix. When they do there is no such thing as a right or correct view. They are all wrong and just reinforce and entrench bigotry, prejudice and racism and thoroughly corrupt normal political processes. Just look at the Health debate in the land of the "free to make a quick buck at the expense of others", as one example that comes immediately to mind. Cheers, Andre |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Riginslinger Date: 12 Oct 09 - 10:52 AM In any event, religion is a really bad idea; it's pretty obvious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Mr Happy Date: 12 Oct 09 - 08:42 AM 'Lovers of unintentional comedy!!' Just love that line!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:56 AM This article by Chris Hedges is an eye opener as well... The Christian Right and the Rise of American Fascism |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 12 Oct 09 - 06:49 AM Violence and killing: Eric Rudolph - Bombed 2 abortion clinics, 1 gay nightclub, and the bombing of the 1996 olympic games Murders - In the U.S., violence directed toward abortion providers has killed at least nine people, including five doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, and a clinic escort.[5] * March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Dr. Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison. * July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside of another facility in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings, received a death sentence, and was executed September 3, 2003. * December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi, who prior to his arrest was distributing pamphlets from Human Life International,[6] was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings. * January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result. * October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Dr. Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001. * May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed as he served as an usher at his church in Wichita, Kansas.[7] Another doctor, George Patterson, was shot and killed in Mobile, Alabama on August 21, 1993, but it is uncertain whether his death was the direct result of his profession or rather a robbery.[8] [edit] Attempted murder, assault, and threats According to statistics gathered by the National Abortion Federation (NAF), an organization of abortion providers, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, there have been 17 attempted murders, 383 death threats, 153 incidents of assault or battery, and 3 kidnappings committed against abortion providers.[9] The attempted murders were:[5][10][11] * August 19, 1993: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics). * July 29, 1994: June Barret was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and Dr. John Britton. * December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the same-day shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols. * October 28, 1997: Dr. David Gandell of Rochester, New York was injured by flying glass when a shot was fired through the window of his home.[12] * January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured in the bombing which also killed Robert Sanderson. Anthrax threats - The first letters claiming to contain anthrax were mailed to U.S. clinics in October 1998, a few days after the Slepian shooting, and since then, there have been a total of 655 such bioterror threats made against abortion providers. None of the "anthrax" in these cases was real.[10][13] * November 2001: After the genuine 2001 anthrax attacks, Clayton Waagner mailed hoax letters containing a white powder to 554 clinics. Waagner was convicted of 51 charges relating to the anthrax scare on December 3, 2003. Arson, bombing, and property crime - According to NAF, since 1977 in the United States and Canada, property crimes committed against abortion providers have included 41 bombings, 173 arsons, 91 attempted bombings or arsons, 619 bomb threats, 1630 incidents of trespassing, 1264 incidents of vandalism, and 100 attacks with butyric acid ("stink bombs").[9] The first clinic arson occurred in Oregon in March 1976 and the first bombing occurred in February 1978 in Ohio.[14] More recent incidents have included:[5] * December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians' offices in Pensacola, Florida were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings "a gift to Jesus on his birthday."[15][16][17] * October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, causing US$100 worth of damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.[18] * May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire on resulted in damage estimated at US$20,000. The case remains unsolved.[19] * September 30, 2000: A Catholic priest drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an ax before being shot at by a security guard.[20] * June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington destroyed a wall, resulting in US$6000 in damages.[18] * July 4, 2005: A clinic Palm Beach, Florida was the target of an arson. The case remains open.[18] * December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a "memorial lamp" for an abortion she had had there.[21] * September 13, 2006 David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan crashed his car into the Edgerton Women's Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and then started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions, however Edgerton is not an abortion clinc.[22] * April 25, 2007: A package left at a women's health clinic in Austin, Texas contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[23] * May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[24] * December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Dr. Curtis Boyd's clinic in Albuquerque. Altman's girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[25] * January 22, 2009 Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness [26] rammed a SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in St. Paul, Minnesota.[27] President George W Bush is a Christian reconstructionist - http://www.theocracywatch.org/bush2.htm Bush's actions in Iraq are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and thousands of US troops. isms: Reconstructionism - - is a theology that arose out of conservative Presbyterianism (Reformed and Orthodox), which proposes that contemporary application of the laws of Old Testament Israel, or ''Biblical Law,'' is the basis for reconstructing society toward the Kingdom of God on earth. Reconstructionism argues that the Bible is to be the governing text for all areas of life--such as government, education, law, and the arts, not merely ''social'' or ''moral'' issues like pornography, homosexuality, and abortion. Reconstructionists have formulated a ''Biblical world view'' and ''Biblical principles'' by which to examine contemporary matters. Reconstructionist theologian David Chilton succinctly describes this view: ''The Christian goal for the world is the universal development of Biblical theocratic republics, in which every area of life is redeemed and placed under the Lordship of Jesus Christ and the rule of God's law.''... ...the Reconstructionists go further and set a course of world conquest or ''dominion,'' claiming a Biblically prophesied ''inevitable victory.'' Reconstructionists also believe that ''the Christians'' are the ''new chosen people of God,'' commanded to do what ''Adam in Eden and Israel in Canaan failed to do. . .create the society that God requires.'' Further, Jews, once the ''chosen people,'' failed to live up to God's covenant and therefore are no longer God's chosen. Christians, of the correct sort, now are... ...Epitomizing the Reconstructionist idea of Biblical ''warfare'' is the centrality of capital punishment under Biblical Law. Doctrinal leaders (notably Rushdoony, North, and Bahnsen) call for the death penalty for a wide range of crimes in addition to such contemporary capital crimes as rape, kidnapping, and murder. Death is also the punishment for apostasy (abandonment of the faith), heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, ''sodomy or homosexuality,'' incest, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and, in the case of women, ''unchastity before marriage.'' According to Gary North, women who have abortions should be publicly executed, ''along with those who advised them to abort their children.'' Rushdoony concludes: ''God's government prevails, and His alternatives are clear-cut: either men and nations obey His laws, or God invokes the death penalty against them.'' Reconstructionists insist that ''the death penalty is the maximum, not necessarily the mandatory penalty.'' However, such judgments may depend less on Biblical Principles than on which faction gains power in the theocratic republic. The potential for bloodthirsty episodes on the order of the Salem witchcraft trials or the Spanish Inquisition is inadvertently revealed by Reconstructionist theologian Rev. Ray Sutton, who claims that the Reconstructed Biblical theocracies would be ''happy'' places, to which people would flock because ''capital punishment is one of the best evangelistic tools of a society.'' Dominionism - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/20/2406/2232/786/259560 Organizations: Army of God Christian Identity Watchmen On The Walls Joels Army According to Bentley and a handful of other "hyper-charismatic" preachers advancing the same agenda, Joel's Army is prophesied to become an Armageddon-ready military force of young people with a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers. "An end-time army has one common purpose — to aggressively take ground for the kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ, the Dread Champion," Bentley declares on the website for his ministry school in British Columbia, Canada. "The trumpet is sounding, calling on-fire, revolutionary believers to enlist in Joel's Army. … Many are now ready to be mobilized to establish and advance God's kingdom on earth."... ...Those sounding the alarm about Joel's Army are not secular foes of the Christian Right, few of whom are even aware of the movement or how widespread it's become in the past decade. Instead, Joel's Army critics are mostly conservative Christians, either neo-Pentecostals who left the movement in disgust or evangelical Christians who fear that Joel's Army preachers are stealing their flocks, even sending spies to infiltrate their own congregations and sway their young people to heresy. And they say the movement is becoming frightening. "The pitch and intensity of the military rhetoric of this branch of the global Dominionist movement has substantially increased since the beginning of 2008," writes The Discernment Research Group, a Christian watchdog group that tracks what they call heresies or cults within Christianity. "One can only wonder how long before this transforms into real warfare with actual warriors." Joel's Army believers are hard-core Christian dominionists, meaning they believe that America, along with the rest of the world, should be governed by conservative Christians and a conservative Christian interpretation of biblical law. There is no room in their doctrine for democracy or pluralism. More on Joel's Army - What's worse, though, is that to "Joel's Army"...this isn't fiction, and they expect to be the guys literally swimming in everyone else's blood as they descend from Heaven at the end of the Tribulation and slaughter the world. God-Warrior mandates and physical violence in the name of "spiritual warfare" Combine this with a major scripture-twisting of Joel 2 that describes themselves as not only a "third Pentecost" but as a locust-like army of God Warriors and the known use of extremely coercive tactics that have been documented to cause personality changes in less than three days... ...well, if you aren't disturbed, you should be, seriously. And if this isn't enough to worry you, think of this--the goal is ultimately omnicide of the entire world population other than neopentecostal dominionists (no, Jewish people don't get an out unless they convert to "Messianics") via thermonuclear war. The mere promotion of this in churches (which has gone on for quite a long time; I've personally witnessed it since the late 70s in the Assemblies church I am a walkaway from, and this sort of thing has been promoted since at least the fifties in the context of nuclear warfare) is scary enough. However, there's been a distressing trend over the past twenty years or so of the concept of "spiritual warfare" being increasingly embraced in the physical realm as well. One area is with paramilitary training of youth and indoctrination. "Jesus Camp" detailed what is actually a mild version of this in Assemblies of God circles; increasingly common are literal boot camps, including literal paramilitary training in the Assemblies' "Christian alternative" to Scouting. Movements popular in the Assemblies and its "daughters" tend to be even worse; Bill Gothard runs a literal paramilitary training facility for "Joel's Army" youth. This also means that the US military has become an increasing target for infiltration. The very paramilitary training camp noted above has gotten quite official sanction by the general in charge of most of the US Air Force's military recon and IT security. This effort has become disturbingly successful; no less than two of the primary parties involved in the Abu Ghraib scandal including policymaker William Boykin are directly involved in the Assemblies and the "Joel's Army" movement within the denomination, and in many cases the US government has literally been paying for packing the chaplaincy of the US Army and Air Force with "Joel's Army" promoters. (Boykin is especially interesting in this regard; he has quite explicitly referred to Joel's Army theology in speeches to his fellow soldiers.) One of the major groups involved in infiltration of the military, Campus Crusade for Christ, has been known to promote this sort of theology as well. Increasingly, though, these groups aren't restricting themselves to infiltrating the military (or political parties, for that matter) or having their kids play soldier in "Bible boot camps". Increasingly, "Joel's Army" theology is leaking into real world violence--including the neopentecostal dominionist hategroup "Watchmen At The Walls" (which has received official support from the Assemblies of God as a whole) as well as domestic terrorism (such as targeted assassinations of women's clinic workers and bombings of not only women's clinics but adult bookstores and LGBT nightclubs). Not only this, but increasingly "Joel's Army" is no longer even bothering to keep a "private face"--such as Joseph Fuiten's call for the mass denationalisation and deportation of non-dominionists. And if this doesn't scare you yet--these groups may have influence to the very highest levels of government and documented histories of particularly horrific genocides (ask Guatemala about the hell it endured under Gen. Rios Montt sometime)...and the largest denomination embracing "Joel's Army" theology has an estimated membership of nearly three million people...and they've rather explicitly targeted the largest Protestant denomination in the US, the Southern Baptist Convention, for total conversion from within. More on Joel's Army - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/9/165026/2943/580/511990 Blackwater (a private army owned and run by dominionist Christians): Testimony from a former Blackwater employee - "To that end, Mr. Prince intentionally deployed to Iraq certain men who shared his vision of Christian supremacy, knowing and wanting these men to take every available opportunity to murder Iraqis. Many of these men used call signs based on the Knights of the Templar, the warriors who fought the Crusades. Mr. Prince operated his companies in a manner that encouraged and rewarded the destruction of Iraqi life. For example, Mr. Prince's executives would openly speak about going over to Iraq to 'lay Hajiis out on cardboard.' Going to Iraq to shoot and kill Iraqis was viewed as a sport or game. Mr. Prince's employees openly and consistently used racist and derogatory terms for Iraqis and other Arabs, such as 'ragheads' or 'hajiis.'" Dominionist Christians actively working to take over the US government - http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/InfiltratingTheUSMilitaryGenBoykinsWarriors.html Dominionist Christians actively working to take over the US military - http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/6/194930/0382 http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_363.shtml http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/08/19/1092889283618.html?oneclick=true ...and using religious bullying against people who are not Christians - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4091956.stm That's a start anyway. There's tons more out there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Peace Date: 12 Oct 09 - 12:47 AM Never mix religion, politics and sex. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Donuel Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:35 PM Christians of twenty years ago and the fundamentalist Radical Right of today have virtually nothing to do with one another. That is why the radical right would not support John McCain. I too would not give the time of day to Christian hate mongers. That would include people who hate Christians as well as Christians who practice hate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 11 Oct 09 - 11:33 PM I'm not anti-Christian, nor do I hate Christians. I'm married to a Christian and most of my family members are Christians. My Christian husband doesn't approve of what the Christian extremists are doing any more than I do. In fact, what they are doing makes him very angry, and he has no problem whatever with people discussing it. Not only does he not mind it, he encourages it. So the best solution would be for me to provide even more information about the extremists who want to take over our government, and also lots of information about acts of terrorism and other kinds of killing and violence committed by them, and that's exactly what I am going to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: pdq Date: 11 Oct 09 - 10:31 PM A much better solution is for anti-Christian hatemongers to stop posting this king of puke. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 11 Oct 09 - 10:29 PM Fine, don't participate in the thread then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: pdq Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:54 PM Anybody who would post Mad Max Blumenthal's rancid puke does not deserve the time of day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: CarolC Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:41 PM I think people can try to get their points across without making attacks on other posters. We're having a thoughtful discussion here, not a street fight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: hidigibaugh Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:01 PM Man !! .. you must not sleep very well .. what a buncha' BS "these self frustrated people under the likes of Glen Beck who pleads with them to let out their hate and frustration and direct it toward Barak Obama" . . . obviously this man hasn't seen G Beck's program .. must be an Oberman groupie . . . time for another anti-depressant ?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: History of US radical religious right From: Donuel Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:45 PM Blumenthal's concept of RR sado masochism can be seen in virtually all the remarks of the most extreme RR politicians. C Street perversions as well as the perverse remarks by Barbara Bachmann to slit their wrists for their cause is par for their course. Religious sado masochism in the political ring is a bit "high faloutin fancy talk" for what most people call sexual hypocrits and domestic terrorists striving to dismantle secular goverment and replace it with a Biblical theocracy. Blumenthal has put faces and dates on what we all knew in our hearts, such as the conservative movement having more than their share of self loathing homosexuals. He has given me a better understanding of James Dobson's rise to power through the mutual exploitation of Ted Bundy. He has also drawn back the curtain and exposed where and from whom they got countless millions of dollars to overthrow secular goverment. He has probed the racist and fascist right wing elements of Isreali politics which I have been warned against alluding to by Jews who prefer to ignore their right wing extremists. In my opinion to ignore these exptremists is to open the door to apartite enthusiasts. The call for an authoritarian father figure by the Christian right is better understood with the help of Blumenthal's writings. Having been a target for some of these religious fundamentalists I can attest to their high anxiety and self denial to their own potentials. They are indeed afraid of free will and freedom. I have watched the nervous tremors in their hands and other symptoms of anxiety that becomes transmuted into attacking the non believing infidels. Calvanism constipates the psyche and drives people mad. Galvanizing these self frustrated people under the likes of Glen Beck who pleads with them to let out their hate and frustration and direct it toward Barak Obama is as dangerous as smoking atop a heap of gun powder. Talk about an ever lasting lake of fire... Watch his video Rapture Ready... it is a comedic horrorific documentary. |
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Subject: History of US radical religious left From: hidigibaugh Date: 11 Oct 09 - 08:16 PM QUOTE = "And by the same token, if someone above can say we're not allowed to talk about extremism among some Christians because it will stir up hatred for the whole group, we can also say that about Muslims. If we are not allowed to talk about the extremists in the Christian religion for that reason, they we are also not allowed to talk about extremists in the Muslim religion because it will stir up hatred for the whole group. Can't have it both ways. " COMMENT = show me the website that lists all of the murders and killings these "Christian extremists" are commiting compared to what the Muslims are doing . . . what .. you have nothing but excuses for Muslims ? the Religion of peace indeed |
