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How to translate a song from Punjabi?

Suegorgeous 28 Oct 09 - 03:26 PM
katlaughing 28 Oct 09 - 03:58 PM
Amos 28 Oct 09 - 03:58 PM
Jack Campin 28 Oct 09 - 04:03 PM
Banjiman 28 Oct 09 - 04:05 PM
Gibb Sahib 28 Oct 09 - 05:40 PM
Suegorgeous 28 Oct 09 - 07:48 PM
Suegorgeous 28 Oct 09 - 08:05 PM
catspaw49 28 Oct 09 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Oct 09 - 08:49 PM
Jack Campin 28 Oct 09 - 08:54 PM
Suegorgeous 28 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM
Jack Campin 28 Oct 09 - 09:19 PM
Gibb Sahib 28 Oct 09 - 09:56 PM
Gibb Sahib 28 Oct 09 - 10:51 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 28 Oct 09 - 11:18 PM
Suegorgeous 29 Oct 09 - 08:00 AM
Jack Campin 29 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Oct 09 - 05:49 PM
Suegorgeous 30 Oct 09 - 08:07 PM
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Subject: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 03:26 PM

Does anyone know of a website/free software that will translate a song for me into English from Punjabi?

Or - could someone here translate it for me?

Many thanks
Sue


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 03:58 PM

Someone helped out on This Song. Probably not the same one, but it might be a good contact?

THis Fellow may be able to help.

Also check this Volunteer Translation site.

Good luck!


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 03:58 PM

I don't speak it but I suspect anyone from Punjab would also speak fluent English and could render the service. If you're near an Indian community you could ask around there.


A


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:03 PM

Find a YouTube rendition of it and ask in the comments?


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Banjiman
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:05 PM

PM me and I'll ask my good friend Ranjit to translate it for you.

I'm pretty sure she'll say yes.

Cheers

Paul


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 05:40 PM

What song is it? I speak Punjabi and I may be able to help. Sometimes translations of songs in distant language families take a bit of work though, even if you understand the language.


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:48 PM

Forgot to say - I don't have the written text, only the mp3 of the song (and there's a second one, but only if that's possible). I'll pm you both, Banji and Gibb, to see if I can send you the file

Many thanks to all of you who replied for your ideas. Wonderful!

Sue


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 08:05 PM

oops, forgot to say - the song is called Crows, and it's sung by Pooja Rishi. The second is called Wedding Song, same singer.


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 08:12 PM

Seems like Little Orphan Annie might be able to help here..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 08:49 PM

If someone has her registration e-mail....



We recently had a delightful - spirited - young teacher from India within the forum



Unfortunately, the threatened badgering by legal Dicks (Richard) near the London Bridge seem to have scared her away.



In a better world...without UK esquires...an exchange of ideas might have continued...and a translation might hare ensued....but when you make only 280 a month....a "big huffin-puffin" could very well blow your house down.



Mudcat Thread
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=36763#2620202


Subject: RE: copyrights

From: Shalini

Date: 28 Apr 09 - 02:01 AM



Sincerely,

Gargoyle



So VERY GLAD the US is not UK


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 08:54 PM

Did you find the song through this link?

Fiddler on the Rails


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 09:03 PM

Jack - originally, yes


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 09:19 PM

I'd have asked Georgia and Tom (who wrote that piece), then.

I think I've met Georgia - the face looks familiar - but not for long enough that she'd remember me.

BTW there is a whole CD of sad and angry songs by newlywed women here, if it's the theme you're interested in:

http://www.kalan.com/scripts/album/dispalbum.asp?id=4077

(Not listed on their English language pages anywhere I can see - google for "Anadolu Ninnileri" and you'll find a few free downloads, but much of the point of the thing is the absolutely brilliant booklet that comes with the CD).


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 09:56 PM

Here's what I get of the "Wedding Song." It might be in the genre "suhag" -- need more context to confirm. What do the album notes say? Anyway, it is being addressed to the bride. If it is a traditional song, it would only be sung amongst the company of women, in the couple weeks prior to the wedding. I don't know if it is a traditional song, or just one meant to evoke that style. The singer is good -- and this is not a value judgement -- but she does not sound like the "traditional" sound of Punjabi women's singing; sounds "trained." Her pronunciation, also, is more of the Eastern dialects, and non-standard on a couple words.

Though I couldn't get it 100% clear, this may give a nice boost to someone else who can finish it off. Apologies for any errors. [Note: capital letters denote retroflex sounds, and ~ denotes nasalization of the preceding vowel.]

Refrain:
aaiaa laaRie ni tera sihariaa~ vaala viaahvaN aaia
aaiaa te sada rang laaia laaRie...

1. naazaa~ de nal paal ke maape
des ne khaalaa (?? des ni kaala??) devaN aape

2, sakhiaa~ ral-mil jhummar paae
shaala ih din sabh te aae

3. jaan di vaari ih hoi kahiNa
ikk-duuje lai zinda rahiNa

Refrain:
He's come, oh bride, your chaplet*-wearer has come to wed
He's come to spread everlasting joy, oh bride

1. Your parents nourished you from the water-pump of gracefulness
??The land itself gives you troughs (in which to flow) [Some metaphor ging on here. It's unclear to me.]

2. Your girl-friends get together and dance
God willing all days will be like this [rough translation]

3. Vows of sacrificing ones life being said
That you may live long for each other


*"chaplet" is the silly English translation one sees used for what is called "sihra" in Punjabi, a sort of face covering of dangling flowers and stuff that the groom wears when he goes to fetch the bride for the wedding.

Gibb


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 10:51 PM

And here's the rough version of the "crow" one. Sorry again about some of the vagueness. BTW, it's fairly common for women to address crows in such songs. This one doesn't sound like a traditional song to me -- maybe that's just because of the fancy way it is being sung, though the repetitive poetic structure is pretty typical of traditional songs, I think. But I wouldn't be surprised to find this had been a commercial record at some point.

Refrain:
uDda ve jaavi~ kaa~va, bahindRa(?) jaavi~ ve mere pekaRe

1. ikk na dasi~ mere baabul raaje nu~
rouga bhar kacheri chhoR ke, mai~ vaari jaava~

2. ikk na dasi~ meri maa~ raaNi nu~
rougi guDDiaa~-paTole vekh ke, mai~ vaari jaava~

3. ikk na dasi~ mere viir piaare nu~
houga niila ghoRa biiR ke

Refrain:
O flying crow, go, go straight(?) to my parents' village

1. Don't tell my kingly father
He must be crying heavily at the rawness of our separation, I swear

2. Don't tell my queenly mother
She must be crying as she looks at my dolls and playthings, I swear

3. Don't tell my beloved brother
He must be tying up (?) his blue horse*


*May be an allusion to the "heroic" cast of the brother figure and a metaphor for the blue horse that belonged to certain heroes in love stories...but may also be an idiom


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 11:18 PM

In ANY language...in ANY culture ...

WOW!

It is a blessing to see the sun rising in the east.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 08:00 AM

Amazing! thanks so much!! :)

Jack - I first found that site with the songs a couple of years ago. I'd already been in contact with Georgia through my looking for a fiddleplayer at the time, and she'd given me the link. Didn't know that site was still up! and no longer had the link, or I'd have given it here. Wasn't specifically because of the "sad bride" theme - it's just that when I heard the Crows song, I thought it was beautiful. Also liked the notion of her telling the crow (maybe because she couldn't tell anyone else? Gibb - would this be the case?).
That Turkish cd - do you have it? does the booklet translate the lyrics?

Gibb - thank you so much for doing that! that's brilliant! :) a lot of repetition then in songs...

Wasn't sure anyone here would know, so I'm really pleased, thanks.

Sue


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM

Yes, I've got the CD. The notes give the gist rather than translate word for word - the lullabies are in a phenomenal range of languages.


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Oct 09 - 05:49 PM

A few random notes, which nonetheless may be relevant:

In traditional Punjabi songs there is a fairly sharp divide between what is "women's" and "men's" material.

"Traditional" in Punjabi music, in the way I am using it, really does mean songs where we don't know where they came from. Unlike the broadsides and such of the 19th century that birthed a lot of the traditional or so-called "folk" music in English language, the Punjabi traditional songs were purely oral creations, learned like a lot of us learn "Happy Birthday": on ritual occasions and hardly ever heard on any other.

One could actual translate the word "traditional", alternatively, as "ritual" or "customary." This is in distinction to songs called "folk" which have been spread through mass media (books, recordings, etc) in the 20th century, though they may have re-entered oral tradition and people have "forgotten" their origins. This concept of "folk song," I think, was adopted from the European concept. But since a lot of people fail to make the distinction I'm making here, it's often hard to tell where to place the song.

Anyways...what I call "amateur singing" (not because of lack of skill, but because it it not done as a profession and it is done within ones community) in Punjab is disproportionately the purview of women. Often, they are singing only for/with women of their community. And, as the songs are tied to ritual events and of a somewhat private nature, they have be resilient to becoming commercialized tracks -- most people wouldn't think the truly traditional songs were worth listening to, anyway (they are not "entertainment" in that way).

A lot of Punjabi women's songs focus on the theme of separation. It is customary for the bride, once married, to go and live with the husband's extended family in his village (which must be different than her own). So it is that leaving home and all friends that gives the setting for the sad scenario.

A lot of birds get addressed. Maybe, like you said, because there is no one else. Often the speaker is sitting on an upper level balcony of a house, so ...there aren't many more animals around there, you know? Crows are common -- maybe because they like to sit on the ledges of buildings/houses?? There would also be previous literary/folkloric themes that established this bird or that one as symbolizing this or that. The cuckoo which sings a lot in the sultry monsoon season is kind of indicative of romance. Generally, I think the birds symbolize the pretty universal meaning of freedom, flight, mobility etc. I don't think the black color of the crow is very meaningful, so far as I've seen. It's a relatively "friendly" bird, not a "scary" one -- despite the fact that I've seen crows in India repeatedly swoop down and bite everyone passing by!


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Subject: RE: How to translate a song from Punjabi?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 30 Oct 09 - 08:07 PM

Gibb - thanks so much for all that background, it's very helpful.

Hoping Banji will get back too!

Sue


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