BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov

Subject: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:28 PM

For the full hour, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:31 PM

Oh, BOY!!! ;-) Should be interesting. What I'm waiting for, though, is when Chongo gets on Oprah.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:50 PM

Steadman would kick his ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: artbrooks
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 01:56 PM

Let me think for a while - who do I care less about, Oprah or Sarah? Sarah, I guess...Oprah seems to be a bunch more intelligent.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 02:21 PM

gnu--according to Larry King, it's 'full ow-wah'.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 02:36 PM

good one, art
;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:02 PM

Palin knows that Opra supported Obama; I wonder if she has a list of complaints already made up to spew later?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:30 PM

I think Palin could be interesting for a time if she talked about her life. I can't imagine her having much of political argument in her beyond blandishments and mission statements. I've thought of reading her book - while in the bookstore.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:37 PM

Chongo could turn Stedmam into chopped liver in 10 seconds and not even work up a sweat.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: SINSULL
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 03:53 PM

You betcha!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:36 PM

Why should anyone with even a pretension to intelligence give two $hit$ about anything Palin could possibly have to say?

This is the New Face of the "Grand Old Party" - the brain dead leading the mindless.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

The clever ones, are the dangerous ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 05:40 PM

ake, does that statement imply that you prefer or admire only the stupid ones?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 06:15 PM

Well, it's true that a clever scoundrel is more dangerous than a stupid one under most circumstances. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:00 PM

I watched the whole thing and all I saw/heard was the same old crap. She still cant name anything she reads. Apparently, the McCain gang is hitting back. Should be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: GUEST,999
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:10 PM

Beware of stupid people in groups.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Peter T.
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:17 PM

or singly.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:35 PM

I wonder if the publisher deliberately did not fact check the book in order to have even more controversy/publicity to sell it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 08:43 PM

abc news Fact Checking Palin's book


"The factual errors from the 400-page book were compiled mostly by the Associated Press"

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 09:30 PM

Unfortunately, the book will last on shelves and the fact checkers will recede into dim memory, the print will be recycled into more brown paper or pixels.

Maybe someone will pay to have correctionis glued into the bindings!

MoveOn-dot-org, I'm thinking you have the money to make this happen!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 09:50 PM

*grin* Palin is not so dumb that she doesn't see a gold mine available by just continuing to be controversial.

She quit as governor in order to be ON this circuit. She knows she is never gonna be president...or much of anything above dogcatcher.... but idiots will still pay her big $$$$ to show up and yammer....and they book will make her more $$$$$...already has.

If looking like a fool pays that well, I shoulda tried it when I was younger.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:04 PM

Yes, but could you look like a beauty queen as well?? LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:07 PM

well... if I combed my hair different....

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Alice
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:15 PM

And maybe get one of those bump-it things to make the crown of it rise up. CLICK

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:16 PM

What makes her very dangerous is that she has allies. She is interested in power and does not particularly care how many lies and manipulations she has to effect in order to get it. I am sure she is a large part of the reason that McCain lost.

As one on the circuit and being boosted by the talk radio extremists she will be a spokesmouth as long as she is entertaining and useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:27 PM

She seems to lack a 'feel' for words. At one point she speaks of someone "turning down the nose" at her, instead of speaking, as we generally do, in opposite terms.

But the image that made me laugh out loud: "Keep your powder dry, read the book, and enjoy it! Lots of great stories about my family, Alaska, and the incredible honor it was to run alongside Senator John McCain."

Generally we speak of 'standing beside' or even perhaps 'running beside' but "running alongside" is very visual. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 10:48 PM

It is extremely visual, Ebbie, and that's the way Sarah Palin is. When your favorite hobby is trekking through the vast and imponderable wilderness solitudes of Alaska and drawing a bead on a bull moose at an almost inconceivable distance and bringing down the herbivorous antediluvian beast with one shot to the brain, you think visually. This is what makes her so damnably attractive. Those bumpits are really cool too. There are librarians who would kill to have Sarah Palin's sex appeal, her hair, and her visual thinking abilities. You are underguesstimating what Sarah can do if given the chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 11:09 PM

You give her altogether too much credit, Little Hawk. Not to point out that you are being sexist and dismissive in regard to the lowly librarian. Frankly, I would far rather share a domicile with a librarian, who can be presumed to have a working brain, than with someone who is "so damnably attractive". Men. You know why men prefer pretty women to smart women? Because they can see better than they can think.

And what are 'bumpits'?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 09 - 11:18 PM

Ebbie...I'm talking tongue-in-cheek in that post fer chrissake! ;-)

A "bumpit" is the thing that you put under your hair at the crown of the head in order to puff it up some. Scroll up to Alice's post at 16 Nov 09 - 10:15 PM (above) and you will find a link to the explanation of how the bumpit works. It looks to me from Sarah's hairdo that she is using one.

If it's any comfort, I've always preferred smart women to those not so smart. It helps if they're attractive too, of course...but they've got to be smart or I'm simply not interested.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 12:07 AM

Somewhere, during Keith Olbermann's comments on this, today, he mentioned her use of the phrase "lock and load." I can't remember it exactly, but, as Keith said, it seemed an unfortunate use of words in light of what just happened at Ft. Hood. She quoted her dad in saying "she's not retreating, she's reloading!"

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:14 AM

Hey, LH, I knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:35 AM

Okay. ;-) Thought you might...but I wasn't quite sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 02:57 AM

Ebbie:"... Men. You know why men prefer pretty women to smart women?"

Gosh, and all this time I thought men preferred blonds...but come to think of it, you might be right, Hillary is blond, but pretty ugly,..and ...oh, I won't say it!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 03:03 AM

'Tain't necessarily so, GfS. I usually tend to fixate more on brunettes for some reason. Not always....but more often than not.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Smedley
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 03:29 AM

Speaking from the other side of the Atlantic, if there is one person who symbolises everything that scares lots of us about the USA, it is Palin. The thought that she could be anywhere near a position of serious power is utterly terrifying.

This is not intended to be an attack on all Americans, as plenty of you feel that way about her too; but it's the ones that don't see her as a demented, small-minded nut-job who are the worry.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: kendall
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 06:42 AM

She will never be anything more than what she is now. Those right wingnuts just don't have the base and without the thinking class they go nowhere. Recent polls indicate that those who now admit being republicans are less than 20%.
Let's face it, the old republican party that I used to vote for, has been taken over by neo cons. The lunatic fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 09:50 AM

"Why should anyone with....?"    Ah yes, one of Mudcat's favorite voices of tolerance and reason--almost climbing out of the gutter.

When Mudcatters stop whistling in the dark and start thinking about the campaign system as it now is, they may realize it's not as simple as pictured above.

In an excerpt from another book coming out at the same time as dear Sarah's ghostwritten screed, it 's made clear. The other book is Going Rouge: An American Nightmare, and is basically columns etc from those who don't exactly support Sarah. Quote by the "Nation" DC editor:   There are two kinds of politics...there's politics of the limbic system, the sub-rational emotional part of the brain..."

Sorry, Mudcatters, not only do people who respond to the limbic system vote, they in fact tend to dominate primaries--on both the Right and the Left.

And Sarah's issues--gun rights and "family values" are tailor-made for this on the Right.

As I've said before, 2012 hinges on two things.   If there is a hot war going on, that will be the basis of the vote.   If not, the economy will tell the tale.   If the economy has not substantially recovered from the current 10% unemployment, President Obama will be out, in favor of some Republican.

It could easily be Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 01:19 PM

Yes, Ron, an election always hinges on those two things, in that order. And as you say, it could be Sarah.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 03:00 PM

I know I will take flak, but, she sure did a lot better job on the Oprah show than I have seen in the past. Of course, that isn't saying much and I still don't see her as anywhere near qualified. And... well, no need to comment any further.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:06 PM

There is a certain mentality the phrase "knee-jerk" was invented for. Sarah Palin parrots certain slogans and positions....about God and guns and babies and 'big government' and....etc., so....because she WAS on the ticket in 2008 and many Republicans voted for that ticket, they are now reluctant to admit what a disaster it was. (well...many are)
   Some will forever profess to admire her 'spunkiness' and 'independence' and 'character', and will assert that she "would have done fine" if elected....whether they really believe it or not. They simply need something to hold onto after a disastrous election.
That said, when 2012 rolls around, they will not make her the candidate....and as I said, I don't believe SHE wants to be there. She can make more money and avoid those awkward interviews by just playing the game she's playing.

When the "knee-jerk" conservatives claim to admire her bravery and positions, they are showing that they are blind to just how shallow the woman is...and if they really believe, they are showing just how shallow THEY are.

("Bill...that's just YOUR opinion"!)

*grin*...no...it seems to be the opinion of most of McCain's staffers, also.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:10 PM

Are you getting paranoid, Bill? ;-) There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 04:24 PM

McCain was facing a real problem in that election, I think. I mean, look, if he'd run with a chimp as running mate, the chimp would have made McCain look like an irrational and grouchy old man, a political dinosaur way past his prime (if he ever had one), and his staffers would have been quite concerned. See what I'm sayin'?

Anyway, the collapsing economy torpedoe'd any chance McCain ever had. Sarah Palin was just additional entertainment on the side at that point.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM

'McCain was facing a real problem in that election, I think. I mean, look, if he'd run with a chimp as running mate, the chimp would have made McCain look like an irrational and grouchy old man, a political dinosaur way past his prime (if he ever had one), and his staffers would have been quite concerned. See what I'm sayin'? "


You betcha.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Nov 09 - 07:00 PM

..there's politics of the limbic system, the sub-rational emotional part of the brain...

How right you are Simple Seeker! Or rather, how right your anonymous editor is.

Which begs the question whether the United States should be governed by the sub-rational.

And when- if ever- the Republican Party decides its future may not lie in Being the party of the sub-rational.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:33 AM

There is nothing wrong with emotion.   In fact if there is no emotion in the voter, it's likely his or her candidate will be defeated.   It could easily be argued that Hillary's defeat in the primary was due to this.   Anybody who thinks there was no emotion involved in supporting Obama has never been to a rally for him, as I did..   Emotion makes the supporter go the extra mile. It certainly did for me--I supported Obama financially--and early-- and made phone calls for him to complete strangers---neither of which I had ever done before. And EMILY--is also true--Early Money Is Like Yeast.

And the top reason Hillary did not get comparable support to that of Obama is also clear--she tried too hard for a reasoned, moderate approach to an extremely visceral issue--the war in Iraq.   Her "reasoned approach" seemed to us Obama supporters as blatant calculation.   She killed her own candidacy by never being willing to admit she was wrong in supporting the 2003 invasion. So she drove all the people who felt both intellectually--and, crucially, emotionally-- that the US should pull troops out of Iraq--away from her. And she thereby pushed their enthusiasm--and their money-- also away.

So don't underestimate Sarah.   Especially since she has also, it seems, learned Obama's lesson about use of the Internet.   She supposedly has close to a million "friends" on Facebook---and they are directed to her PAC to give money.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:39 AM

And McCain also did not rouse much emotion in his listeners.    It seems clear to me that from the McCain perspective Sarah was not in fact a liability--she brought the emotional support he needed. And the election was far closer than the numbers indicated.   What killed McCain's candidacy was not Sarah, but the perception--at precisely the peak of a financial crisis--that he was not only clueless about it, but would not be a steady hand at the tiller.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 09:53 AM

And the editor is not "anonymous".    He is the DC editor for "Nation" magazine. As I said.   Anybody who reads carefully and who cares to find his name can easily do so.

What a candidate needs is both the intellectual and the emotional aspect. That is what Obama got from a huge number of his supporters--including me.

My main point--and it's my point, not the point of the Nation's editor in the quote I found-- is that in the primaries, it's the emotional which tends to dominate. It's true believers--on any part of the political spectrum--which are the most valuable to the candidate. Especially early. Since they are willing to go all out for the candidate, when he or she most needs it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:49 AM

Excellent points, Ron. I think you're dead right.

"What a candidate needs is both the intellectual and the emotional aspect." Yessiree.

And..." in the primaries, it's the emotional which tends to dominate. It's true believers--on any part of the political spectrum--which are the most valuable to the candidate. Especially early. Since they are willing to go all out for the candidate, when he or she most needs it."

Obama was an extremely effective campaigner on both the intellectual and the emotional counts. I found Kucinich to be the finest campaigner in an intellectual sense...that is, he was saying what made the most sense to me...but he was too far outside the mainstream power structure to ever have a chance, and he also could not match Obama's mastery of the emotional pitch...nor could he get the kind of funding Obama did.

Sarah Palin is a very good emotional campaigner. That counts for a lot in an election. She comes up short on the intellectual side...unless you agree with her, of course! ;-) And those who support her do.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 10:54 AM

"That's what Obama got...".   And also what he gave.   The emotional--by being who he was. And the intellectual--by a calm, reasoned approach to issues. Except the Iraq war, where he seemed to share the gut-level dislike of it-- especially its origins-- that we had.

He communicated both of these in speeches--unforgettable events to anybody who was there.   And to a far greater extent, and more reliably, than either Hillary or McCain did.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 11:05 AM

And to say the Republican party is the party of the sub-rational is also--unsurprisingly, considering the source--an absurdly simplistic statement.   The WSJ editors supported Sarah right from the start and continue to do so. If anybody seriously thinks their support is not based on calculation that she promotes the interests of Wall St., that person needs to start doing some reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Alice
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:03 PM

Hillary is not ugly. Shame on you, guest, for writing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: pdq
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:35 PM

Speaking of attractive women, here is one who has Harry Reid in her sights.

Polls show she has a good chance of defeating him in next year's election:

                                                                Sue Lowden

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 01:40 PM

I know it is not MPC (Mudcat PC), but I gotta say-- I have seen about 2/3 of the Oprah/Palin interview and I thought it was the sanest I'd ever heard Palin. The news commentators are roasting her for their imagined offenses against humanity, but I heard a sane interviewee.

I STILL think she's dangerous, but maybe she now that she's ex-gov she's actually showing that she is teachable. She sure will have to be if she plans to sell books-- maybe that's a good motivator for her flavor of immaturity.

Bless her heart. :~)

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 02:34 PM

Right Again, oh Simple Seeker Of Truth!

There is nothing wrong with emotion - within bounds, and in its place.

However, when it supplants rational thought as a as a basis for decision making, it does tend to cause some serious problems.

As do the ignorant and idiotic in positions of power.

And of course Wall Street backs Palin- they're sure they can run her like they ran Dumbya.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Amos
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM

The Wall Street Journal opines:

"It is her mastery of the lament that explained former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin's appeal last year, and now her knack for self-pity is on full display in her book, "Going Rogue." This is the memoir as prolonged, keening wail, larded with petty vindictiveness. With an impressive attention to detail, Ms. Palin settles every score, answers every criticism; locates a scapegoat for every foul-up, and fastens an insult on every critic, down to the last obscure Palin-doubter back in Alaska.


From Ms. Palin's masterwork, we learn that the personal really is the political. Every encounter with a critic seems to be a skirmish in the culture wars, from the Alaska debate moderator who didn't play fair once to the "wealthy, effete young chap" who ran against her for governor but who, in one of the quickest transitions from anti-snob to snob in all of literature, is also said to have served as "our limo driver at [her husband] Todd's cousin's wedding."

We read about the mean things people have said about Ms. Palin's daughter Bristol, Ms. Palin's suspicions that the neighbors of the Alaska governor's mansion disapproved of her kids' toys, her assurance that she lived a spartan life as governor, "despite what some critics would later accuse me of doing." There's the nonscandal she calls "Troopergate," which is virtually impossible to follow in this telling, except for the insults Ms. Palin directs at one of the men who was (apparently) on the other side of the issue, whatever it was.

In other circumstances, Ms. Palin seems like a woman of grit. When she discovers that her fifth child is going to be born with Down syndrome, she is initially upset, but then writes a letter in God's voice—incidentally, one of the book's creepiest moments—instructing the rest of the family to "accept that I [i.e., the Almighty] only want the best for you. . . ."

But the mean things people say and do during her vice presidential run—these are not to be taken in the same spirit. These are to be recalled and deplored, one by one, as if from a master list Ms. Palin has been keeping all this time. She reminds us that someone hacked her email, that she got a prank phone call, and that she once saw someone wearing an insulting T-shirt in Philadelphia.

She claims that what ruined her famous interview with wily CBS News personality Katie Couric was the latter's "condescension," which caused Ms. Palin to bungle questions like the one in which she was asked to name her favorite newspaper. And she introduces us to Steve Schmidt, the Republican campaign strategist who is the book's No. 1 bad guy—almost alone among the book's characters, he is always referred to by his last name—and who, as Ms. Palin tells it, once implied to an aide that "if there were any more leaks critical of anybody in the handling of Sarah Palin, then a lot more negative stuff would be said about Sarah Palin."

And, lo and behold, there is. Much more. All of it neatly catalogued, bemoaned, and for sale.

But amid all this score-settling, Ms. Palin wanders into some predictable traps. When explaining her political philosophy, for example, she tells readers that "conservatism is a respect for history and tradition"; on the very next page she instructs readers to accept the creative-destructive whirl of the market, which affects society the way "wildfires in Alaska burn away deadfall to make way for new growth."

So much for tradition. The respect she shows history, though, is the kind of respect you show the flag when you soak it in kerosene and touch a match to it. "[W]e tried growing government to save the economy back in the 1930s, and it didn't work then either," Ms. Palin writes. It is a modest assertion, though, compared to the astonishing finding Ms. Palin reveals in the next sentence: "Massive government spending programs and protectionist economic policies actually helped turn a recession into the Great Depression." If this is, as it seems, a reference to the New Deal, then history, per Ms. Palin, sometimes goes backwards, with the WPA and its ilk actually bringing about events that took place before they were launched. ..." (From here.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: meself
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 03:08 PM

"Hillary is not ugly. Shame on you, guest, for writing that."

And if she were ugly, or if you really feel she is - then more shame on you, guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Greg F.
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 06:07 PM

You Betcha, Amos.

Aside from the myriad other things that make her undesirable she's an immature mewling crybaby, whining to her adoring brain-dead acolytes about how badly she was treated. Kind of an updated Nixon 'Checkers' speech.

Whatta Gal! REAL presedential timber, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 07:52 PM

Lest we forget George W. Bush, who had no qualifications for being president, was obviously an idiot, but charming. And even after it was blatantly obvious that he was incompetent, the American electorate re-elected him.

So Sarah Palin could easily be President of the United States. So low has it sunk. (By the end of the Roman Empire, they were creating emperors from people who were hiding in the men's room in terror).


yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 11:29 PM

Anyone can become president of the United States. That's why Chongo remains so optimistic about his own chances.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Nov 09 - 11:46 PM

I forget- was Chongo born in the US? I see him taken as a small imp from his Mama in Africa. And being Chongo, he would never have bothered becoming naturalized. Sorry, LH. It's not gonna happen. You shoulod tell him.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:12 AM

"...when it supplants rational thought..."    That's certainly a singular observation from one who seems to be virtually entirely governed by his limbic system, has a dial always set on outrage, and is a wonderfully clear example of knee-jerk response other than on the Right. It's truly remarkable how many phrases, concepts etc. call forth apoplectic spluttering from the poster.

I'm sure we're likely to see more quite soon.






Another topic entirely:

The WSJ "opines".    Would that it were so.

Sorry, Amos, I do respect your political views and I appreciate your postings of editorial opinion etc.   But words do matter. The WSJ "opines". I'll have to respectfully disagree.

It's emphatically not the WSJ which "opines" here but Thomas Franks, the resident liberal columnist, possibly put there to stimulate letters to the editor by predictably outraged Republican stalwarts.

There's a sizable difference , to put it mildly, between his views and those of the editors (and editorials).

I love reading his columns. They are well-written and the wit is often delightfully sharp.   But as I have been manfully trying to for years to try to make clear to Mudcatters, there is a huge difference between the WSJ editorials and the reporting. And of course between the editorials and the views of the token liberal columnist, the position Mr. Franks now has the honor of holding.

If anybody would like to point out a criticism of Sarah in the actual WSJ editorials, I'd love to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:14 AM

"manfully trying for years..."

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 01:35 AM

It is Chongo's theory, Ebbie, that an amendment will soon be made to the Constitution which allows foreign-born American citizens to become president. This is what Chongo bases his hopes on. What worries me, though, is that Arnold Schwarzenneger is thinking exactly the same thing...if so, Chongo will have stiff competition.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 09:07 AM

one who seems to be virtually entirely governed by his limbic system, has a dial always set on outrage, and is a wonderfully clear example of knee-jerk response other than on the Right. It's truly remarkable how many phrases, concepts etc. call forth apoplectic spluttering from the poster.

Sticks and Stones, oh Simple Seeker, Sticks and Stones.

Should you have any actual facts to back up your assertions, if I may quote a well-known self-proclaimed member of the Mudcat Punditocracy: I fervently hope the act of actually putting together a logical argument, with direct quotes,--as opposed to unsupported ex cathedra pronouncements...will not prove too much of a strain for you.

Ta.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 10:52 AM

Hillary isn't ugly.

And Palin isn't pretty!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 11:59 AM

Some interesting info on the Sweetheart of The Mindless
Here

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:02 PM

Concerning emotion and politics, it is important to recognize the spectrum from the reactionary to the rational in emotion. There is such thing as "rational" emotion, or perhaps "appropriate" would serve better. It is the emotion that deals with situational reality. Grief is an appropriate emotion during a time of loss, and anger is appropriate during a time of intense struggle.


However, as the ability to differentiate between present facts and past duress diminishes, the tendency to react to things that are not happening grows stronger, and the ability to recognize differences and similarities grows less. So you find more and more illogical assumptions, knee-jerk reactions, categorical assertions on an increasing spectrum of irrationality, and that irrationality manifests itself both in inappropriate emotional postures and irrational abuse of data.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: Smedley
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:35 PM

Greg, that Vanity Fair story is very revealing & needless to say has stirred up the venomous hatred of the Palinettes. Lots of letters/messages sent to VF denouncing the story as cheap and malicious (two words which, I reckon, suit Sarah P herself rather well).

A scary story today on the BBC News site about how much SP is appealing to ''''''middle America'''''''':
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8367633.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show today
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:49 PM

Amos - "However, as the ability to differentiate between present facts and past duress diminishes, the tendency to react to things that are not happening grows stronger, and the ability to recognize differences and similarities grows less. So you find more and more illogical assumptions, knee-jerk reactions, categorical assertions on an increasing spectrum of irrationality, and that irrationality manifests itself both in inappropriate emotional postures and irrational abuse of data."

Yeah. Right. Definitely. Matter of fact, I took the liberty of quotin' yer very words as spoke above to this gorilla I know who has a bad attitude towards me. In short, he hates me for some reason. I thought it might help him see the error of his ways to hear yer sage advice, encourage him toward doin' a little self-criticism, and maybe ease the troubled waters between us and lead to a mutual understandin' and some productive dialogue.

It didn't. He took a swing at me and we ended up in a fight that busted up most of the furniture at Kelsey's and got us both kicked out of the place. Now he seems to have put out a contract on me (again). Got any advice?

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: gnu
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

From: Amos - PM
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 12:02 PM

Oh fer fuck sakes, Amos!!!

Hehehehehee. Actually, I thoroughly enjoyed and I agree with your post. Well put, as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 04:18 PM

Sarah Palin's looks? Empty calories.

As far as Palin's looks are concerned and the idea that men prefer pretty women to smart women, I'm with my friend Ric.

This was decades ago. He was sitting at a lunch counter in Seattle's University District when a young woman came in.

"She was lovely, incredibly lovely! Soft. Delicate. Graceful. Feminine. Immediately, I fell in love! She sat down in one of the booths across from me. I had an unobstructed view of her and I gazed at her in adoration!

"Within a few minutes, another young woman came into the restaurant, spotted my adored, and joined her in the booth. I was close enough to hear their conversation.

"And then—the love of my life opened her mouth!

"Oh, Gawd. . . ."

Yeah. Been there, done that! It's a great lesson when one is instantly smitten by the sight of a lovely woman, then—a few seconds of conversation turns it all to ashes.

Wiser now.

Don Firth

P. S. Dennis Kucinich is not all that charismatic and his ears stick out like Alfred E. Newman's, but were he to run again, I'd be in there campaigning for him! It's the brain. And the character and the integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 04:19 PM

I am pissed. She totally destroyed a bumper sticker joke of mine regarding a Palin Beck 2012 presidency.

She said that Glen Beck would make a good running mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 05:55 PM

If I were to pin point the emotional or pop attraction to Palin it would be that of shared identity not beauty.

Many under educated people know that they have more common sense than "book lernin" DIng! jus like Palin. Many people feel that their religious beliefs are held up to ridicule by educated elites. DIng! jus like Palin.
Many people feel that if only they had a couple lucky breaks they could play the system for all its worth and rake in cash and fame. DIng! jus like Sarah! Many people feel like they have been reduced to a low rung on the socio economic ladder just above trailer trash with all their woes like unwanted pregnancies and cheatin husbands. DING jus like Sarah Palin. Many older guys in the military like her because she like them are not considered intellectual giants but really like anyone who praises the military aboive any other endeavor in life. Ding Palin does the trick for them.

THey like her because she's plain, not outrageously beautiful.
She is jus plain Palin jus talkin the plain ol mavericky talk that mavericks talk.

talkin heads use fancy talk and say that she is appealing because she is not a slick politically correct packaged entity.

Well maybe she was before the McCain campaign but it ain't so now.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 06:14 PM

I went googling Sarah Palin + Glenn Beck and here's what came up:

(Anyone who considers that their brain is in working order and likes Palin should take a considered look at the list, imo. eb)

"In the acknowledgments of "Going Rogue," Sarah Palin gives a hearty and extended thanks to conservative media figures, using only their first names.

(She says: eb) "To some media professionals whom I admire because you don't let anyone tell you to sit down and shut up, please keep making the idiots' heads spin. Thank you for not taking our Freedom of the Press for granted, you bold and patriotic, fair and balanced media folks. Keep calling it like you see it: Amanda, Andrew, Ann, Bill(s), Bob, Cal, Dennis, Dick, Eddie, Fred, Glenn, Greta, Hugh, Joey, John, Jonah, Larry, Laura, Lou, Mark, Mary, Michael, Michelle, R.A.M., Rich, Rush, S.E., Sean, Tammy, Walter… and there are more. I join you in standing up for what is right. Remember that as your voice is heard and your spine is stiffened, the spines of others are stiffened, too."

(The article goes on to say:eb) 'Who's who? Here are my best guesses for most of them: Amanda Carpenter of The Washington Times, Ann Coulter, Bill Kristol, Bill O'Reilly, Cal Thomas, Dennis Miller, Fred Barnes, Glenn Beck, Greta Van Susteren, Hugh Hewitt, Jonah Goldberg, Larry Kudlow, Laura Ingraham, Lou Dobbs, Mark Levin, Michael Reagan, Michelle Malkin, Rich Lowry, Rush Limbaugh, S.E. Cupp, Sean Hannity, Tammy Bruce, and Walter Williams. Why not use their whole names? Good question."

enquote

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 06:52 PM

Why does she insist n conflating "what is right" with what is stupid, bellicose, histrionic, superstitious, and sub-literate?



A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:21 PM

Uhh . . . could it be that she is stupid, bellicose, histrionic, superstitious, and sub-literate?

(Just a theory.)

Don Frith

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:35 PM

You people got somethin' against those who are stupid, bellicose, histrionic, superstitious, and sub-literate? Huh? Wanta make somethin' of it?

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:42 PM

Guess no one other than me wonders why just a couple days after Ms. Sarah was on Oprah that Oprah has announced that she is going to shut the show down??? Like what's this about??? Death threats from the Beckers (as in Glenn) for Oprah rouffin' up Ms. Sarah??? I mean, how does one go about interviewin' Ms Sarah without it lookin' like they are trying to ruff her up... I mean, the woman is, ahhhhhh, a friggin' retard...

(You can't call nobody a retard no more, Boberdz... It ain't politically correct???)

And Sarah Palin is???

(That ain't what we mean, Bobz... It's that word... You know... The "R" word"...)

Yeah, it is demeanin' to the "R" word to equate it with Ms. Goodbody...

BTW, anyone see the the Ms Sarah "shorts" piccure??? Well, I didn't but I heard about it so if anyone has a link to it, please stick it up here on the wall...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:50 PM

Oprah is going to shut down her show because she has inside info and knows for sure that Sarah is going to start a similar show...which means curtains for Oprah's ratings. Oprah is doing the smart thing and getting out now so as to avoid total humiliation later. Mark my words. Within 2 years it will be Sarah Palin who has ascended the pinnacle of fame to become undisputed Queen of the Talk Show Hosts.

Chongo has a point. There is a big constituency of stupid, bellicose, histrionic, superstitious, and sub-literate people and primates out there...and they deserve respect and consideration too! ;-) We have stood by long enough and turned a blind eye toward rank discrimination against the stupid, the histrionic, the superstitious, the sub-literate, and the gratuitously violent. When will they gain their place in the sun alongside the rest of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:51 PM

Newsweek Cover

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 07:54 PM

OHH!!! Be still, my beating heart! That picture is 1000% Sarah. I am going to buy at least 5 copies of this historic issue of Newsweek and keep them sealed in protective plastic covers. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Nov 09 - 08:38 PM

Only five, LH???

Shoot, I'll see yer five and up ya' to 10... Plastic covers an' all...

BTW... Thanks Eb fir the assist... I been hearin' about this piccure all day and hadn't seen it... I reckon it's kinda a prelude to her the nudie shoot she's gonna do just before the Iowa caucus... That one will definately win her a few caucus goers...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 12:41 AM

"apoplectic spluttering"

QED

But congratulations to the poster on staying out of the gutter for 3 full posts in a row--probably a new record. See, even you have enough vocabulary to be able to express yourself without profanity! I had confidence you could do it, and it's truly heartwarming how you have vindicated my faith in you. Gold star.   Keep up the good work.

And I'm truly flattered that you find my turns of phrase quotable.

We've all seen enough illustrations of my point that it's, to put it mildly, not a secret.   But I'll be more than glad to point out the next one, if it will make you happy--since your happiness is of course the main goal here.



Returning to the topic:   again I say: nobody should underestimate Sarah's appeal.    I just read about some character who arrived at one of her book signings at about 6 AM---the signing was in the evening.   Though Mudcatters have consistently downplayed her chances, she has a passionate following, to say the least.   It will also be interesting to see how many women decide that it's time for a woman president, and that Sarah fits the bill.
As I've said before, Mudcat is not exactly an accurate reflection of the electorate.

Of course, as I also noted, it's absurdly early to speculate on 2012--and the war issue and the economy will determine the outcome--which nobody can even begin to guess at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:35 AM

My wife and I were in a Barnes and Noble book store earlier this evening. With Palin's book tour barely a week old, her book has already been marked dow and thrown onto the "30% Off" rack.

Stephen L. Rich

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 06:49 AM

Getting back to the topic, Palin must have had some affect of Oprah, she's throwing in the towel.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:49 AM

$4.97 with intro subscription to Newsweek...

What next??? Findin' them books in CrackerJax boxes???

As for Palin's "appeal"??? Well, she is kinda a cross between a car wreck and a beuty queen... That does give her quite a bit of appeal... Heck, I enjoy watchin' her but I wouldn't vote for her...

Inspite of her appeal when it comes down to who we want to turn the government over to she ain't got that kinda appeal... Ya' see, her problem is that intellegent voters know that the only folks who support her politics are, ahhhhhhh... How do you say this and be politically correct??? Okay, these folks are not the most enlightened or educated or, or... Okay, these folks is a bunch of retards and Taliban-wantabees... There... That sums it up... That makes it purdy danged hard for the other 90% of the electrate to wrap their collective heads around voting for her...

When you bed down with dogs ya' can't much complain about the fleas... That, sniff, is poor Ms. Sarah... There ain't no remakin' her where her supporters will stay on board... She is what she is...

Now on the the nudie shoot and the Iowa caucus...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:14 AM

"Now on the the nudie shoot and the Iowa caucus..." Bobert

I read that as: Now on the the nudie chute and the Iowa cannon...

I kid you not.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:20 AM

Is Sarah going to do one of those circus acts where you get shot out of a giant cannon? Ah....those were the days of the great circuses. We don't see those kind of acts much anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:21 AM

Oprah is closing her show down in 2011. Could this be cause and effect?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: pdq
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 11:26 AM

Perhaps he meant that Sarah Palin "will be wearing a Nudie suit to the Iowa caucuses"?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:12 PM

"My wife and I were in a Barnes and Noble book store earlier this evening. With Palin's book tour barely a week old, her book has already been marked dow and thrown onto the "30% Off" rack."
Stephen L. Rich

Acckkk It's even worse than that- the book was only released on November 17, just three days ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 01:41 PM

Cool. I was able to pick up William Shatner's book "Get A Life" at over 50% off a few years back. What a fool I was, though...I only bought 2 of them! I could have bought 15 or 20 copies. You have to take full advantaqe of these opportunities when they arise.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:20 PM

Oprah's "throwing in the towel?"

I don't think so. She's soon to log in her twenty-fifth year doing her talk show and she feels like it's time for a change, she's a billionaire and then some, and she's seriously considering buying her own cable channel (like Ted Turner, who has a couple of them). Lots of future plans in the works.

It doesn't sound to me like she's "throwing in the towel."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 02:30 PM

She's never interviewed Chongo. A serious oversight! (I think the Obama campaign bribed her to keep him off the air...) Well, maybe she'll get him on her new show.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Amos
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 03:03 PM

She'd have to get in touch with him first, Hawkster, which requires powers even more telepathic than hers!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: beeliner
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 03:26 PM

The once-proud Republican party has become the party of losers, loonies and louts.

Ms. Palin belongs in the first classification, by definition.

It seems a shame, especially when one realizes that this was once the party of such American icons as Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt.......gee, I guess that's about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 03:30 PM

Sara Palin is a phenomenon, and in the news right now. But she's already a quitter (someone called her gubernatorial career "Iquiterod") -- at a book signing today, where 1000 people had bought books and were in line for signing, the last 400 or so were left high and dry when she quit signing and was whisked off somewhere else. And this after some of them were in line since dawn.

Her fans -- the Palin-drones -- were pretty mad, also. You betcha.

Ed

And I agree with Ron that we should not overlook her appeal to the tea-gaggers and 9/12 Beckerheads. She can appeal to the most rabid of right-whingers, the very ones who come out in droves for primary elections. She will be formidable. Frighteningly so.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 04:43 PM

That's probably the Republican's worst nightmare. The right-wingers will come out for the primary, and they end up with a candidate that is unelectable in the general election.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 04:52 PM

Yeah, Rig, I think you may very well be right.

(Why do I feel like smiling a lot?)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 05:10 PM

100!!!!!!!! Feel the love.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: GUEST,999
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 07:54 PM

"Is Sarah going to do one of those circus acts where you get shot out of a giant cannon?"

If so, she could be hired and fired on the same day.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:39 PM

" Rightwingers will come out for the primary".   Right. However, smug confidence that the candidate they choose will be unelectable shows the ignorance of history we have come to expect from this poster.

It's interesting that he can't seem to even remember back to 1980.

Rightwinger won in the primaries. His name was Reagan.   And then what happened?


As I've said, more than once, 2012 hinges on 1) a hot war if there is one and 2) the economy--especially unemployment.   Unemployment has to drop hugely from its current 10% by 2012 or President Obama has serious problems--from anybody the Republicans pick.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 09:41 PM

And as I've also noted more than once, 2012 is so far in the future that any speculation on the outcome is wasted bandwidth.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Nov 09 - 10:32 PM

You are so right, Ron. Every US election depends on either 1. a hot war or 2. the economy to decide who wins it. It's a pity the weather isn't so predictable, isn't it? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 09:26 AM

The difference between Ron Raygun and Ms. Sarah is that Ronnie had the ability to "act" and Ms. Goodbody doesn't... So Ronnie could look all puffy and presidential and folks bought into that... Ms. S can't do that... Rather than being able to act all she knows is how to *act out*, just like the birther-girther-slirther retards who support her... This is going to present a problem fir the ol' gal in trying to win over, ahhhhhhh, intellegent people who have some basic understanding that having a president, i.e. George W, that you'd "like to have a beer with" ain't all that it's cracked up to be....

But should I be wrong and she does coral the nomination from the Rudican Party then I'd love to write some of the ads for the Dems...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:49 AM

As I've said, more than once, 2012 hinges on 1) a hot war if there is one and 2) the economy--especially unemployment.   Unemployment has to drop hugely from its current 10% by 2012 or President Obama has serious problems--from anybody the Republicans pick.

Oh Simple Seeker Of Truth, my lad, please put together a logical argument, with direct quotes,--as opposed to unsupported ex cathedra pronouncements.

Or is that too much of a strain for you?

Saying it more than once don't make it so.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 11:30 AM

She was doing okay in Alaska before we knew her real well. I'll never forget when she created a mini scandal out of thin air. A popular Anchorage Police Chief had been made State Public Safety Commissioner and then was abpruptly dismissed from his job by then-Governor Palin. It was like the sudden breakup of an apparently happy family.
It developed over time that the Commissioner had resisted terminating a State Trooper who had personal difficulties with the Governor's family. Allegations fly to-and-fro to this day but the one obvious fact is that the Palins play public ball over personal issues and are not adept at it.
Palin may shine forth from time to time, and she may attract attention and some support, but her biggest enemy is: Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:01 PM

"Palin may shine forth from time to time, and she may attract attention and some support, but her biggest enemy is: Palin. " robo

Remember the old joke? "Not while I'm alive." :)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:03 PM

I don't think I know that joke, Ebbie. How does it go?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Alice
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 01:55 PM

Sarah acts like the mean girl of the popular clique in high school. She holds grudges against people and seeks revenge for imaginary insults and never takes responsibility for what she does wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:26 PM

Anybody who doesn't think that the two determinants in any presidential election are:

1) a hot war, if there is one, and

2)   the economy

is cordially invited to provide a counter-theory, with the specific determinants he or she favors.

I wonder if it can be done without slipping back into the gutter. We'll soon see.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 02:35 PM

I repeat: unemployment must drop substantially from 10% by 2012 or President Obama has serious problems--from any Republican.

The good news is that it is likely to do so, just because of the economic cycle.

But if by some chance it does not, I'd like somebody to explain why President Obama would be re-elected.

Especially since the other factor, war, is not in his favor.   Wars these days are not ended with clear victories in many cases--and Afghanistan is a perfect illustration of one which will not have a clear end.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:05 PM

I predict it will have a miserable, drawn-out, and dwindling end kind of like Vietnam.

Successful "Afghanistanization" (meaning defeat) will be cynically declared at some point as if it was a victory, and the Allied coalition will crawl off miserably back where they came from, pretending that the place is better off for them having been there. Fighting will continue between rival Afghan factions for awhile after. Then somebody else will assume power in Kabul and things will sort of slowly fester back to relatively "normal". Maybe. That's the most optimistic view, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:06 PM

This is not the memory I have of the saying - I think it was a US comedian where I first heard it but googling brings this up:

"Broadcast on The Westminster Hour, Sunday March 31 2002

One of the first lessons a young politician learns is that while the other parties may be your opponents, you should always look among your own side to find your true enemies. And relations with hostile colleagues can often be a defining force in a political career. What's more, these political rivalries are more than personal tales - they have extensive political consequences. In this series I will be exploring some of the most intriguing political rivalries of the twentieth century. Let's start with the long-running feud between two great figures in Labour party history, Ernest Bevin and Herbert Morrison, which provides us with our title. The story goes that someone once remarked of Morrison that he was his own worst enemy, and Bevin immediately butted in to say "Not while I'm alive, he ain't". Perhaps it's too good to be true, but without doubt it accurately represents Bevin's hatred towards his Labour colleague."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/the_westminster_hour/1899102.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:24 PM

Here's some insight into how many/most Alaskans feel about the fetchin' Sarah Palin:

From 'Going Rouge'

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 03:58 PM

Ebbie--

Do you think it's "most" Alaskans?   That would be good news indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 04:00 PM

Link won't work for me, Ebbie.

Fetchin.... tempting in more ways that one. >;-)

Be still, gnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:05 PM

So then, Grasshopper oh Simple Seeker of Truth, it is as I thought.

Ex cathedra pronouncements are permissible for your exalted self- but not for others.

A classic example of hubris & hypocrisy.

Coming from you! Imagine my surprise.

So piss off- I ain't playing your game.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 06:25 PM

The link works for me, gnu, but here's the URL: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/akmuckraker/going-rouge---an-american_b_357676.html

Ron, it seems to me that it's most Alaskans; however, I live in Juneau, Alaska's hotbed of liberalism. :) I literally don't know anyone who isn't appalled by the possibility of her attaining governmental power.

At last night's music, the near-consensus - barring a couple of us - was that she is a flash in the pan, that she is exactly where she wants to be: the center of attention and with the prospect of making real money, that tying herself to a governmental position would be a step down for her. They opined that the American people, and even more precisely, the Republicans would/will have nothing of her.

I am not so sure. I reminded them that Reagan went on, the darling of the right. A couple of the faces sobered.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 08:44 PM

If Sarah has the sense to abandon the Republicans and run on the APP (American Primate Party) ticket alongside Chongo next time, she will become one of the biggest success stories in the history of the WORLD!!!!!!!

Only one little hitch in the plan. Chongo's close friend and 2008 campaign manager, the lovely Renata Carson, says she will quit the APP and never talk to Chongo again if that ever happens.

This makes it a tough decision for Chongo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Nov 09 - 10:26 PM

Chongo never struck me as the sentimental sort.

Come to think of it, he has never struck me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 06:09 AM

You'll never convince Sarah she's a primate, LH. That would bring her too close to recognizing evolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 12:27 PM

Good point. Besides, she will want the top spot next time (president), and there's no way Chongo is going to give her that. I can just imagine the scene...Sarah Palin addressing a roaring crowd of chimps, gorillas, baboons, orangutans, and monkeys at the APP Convention with her snappy little one-liners, her $20,000 dress, and her sly wink. Man, it would really be something to see. It would be a whole new chapter in inter-species relations. But it ain't gonna happen.

Rumor is that Sarah Palin would rather shoot a chimp than talk to him...unless he promises to vote for her in 2012.

Anyway, Renata has laid down the law. Sarah Palin will NOT campaign alongside Chongo. No siree. The show is over, folks. Nothing to see here. Just move on, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:15 PM

Jumping in kind of late, to lob an opinion into the thread: I've heard her discussed over the weekend on various NPR programs. I am happy to say that many of them seem to share my view, that most people of average intelligence are still bright enough to recognize that there are some jobs they shouldn't take on because they don't have the skills to learn how to do it at the level it needs to be performed. Palin is probably of average intelligence, but she is clearly lacking the personal evaluational skills to realize that she's in way over her head and will never have the critical thinking skills to succeed in high office. Let's hope she learns how to save money, so when her looks go she has enough money to live on in her old age.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 01:49 PM

Ebbie:

I've heard of the rejoinder: "Not while I'm alive" but my phrasing of "Pailin's worst enemy is: Pailin" was to say in a nice way what I've felt for some time: She's got some nice points (and legs, according to the Newsweek cover), but from a political point of view, she's a screwup. She's a media dream all the way, but she will raise a lot of blood pressures and disappoint a lot of fans before it's over.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:11 PM

"I am happy to say that many of them seem to share my view, that most people of average intelligence are still bright enough to recognize that there are some jobs they shouldn't take on because they don't have the skills to learn how to do it at the level it needs to be performed."

Ha! what a fuckin' joke,How much intelligence does it take to wreck your financial system, saddle the children of you populace with gigantic national debt, or make unwinnable war on small defenceless nations?

Mrs Palin or somebody very like her could start a motivation process in an electorate long thought dead!

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:12 PM

I knew, robo.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 02:37 PM

Do you not think we have heard enough from "intelligent weasel worded politicians"

We in the UK and in the US need a motivator, forget left, right, Dem Pub.....we need to save the species and that means doing it ourselves, stopping consumerism and waste, doing real jobs, getting our hands dirty!
Maybe even believing in the principles espoused by Jesus the philosopher.........Isnt that what Mrs Palin really stands for? Or is it so important to go to the correct schools and colleges, to have all the degrees, to know the black art of political manipulation?(better cross that one out before our resident witch finder sees it, eh?).............Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 04:54 PM

"Do you not think we have heard enough from "intelligent weasel worded politicians" ake

I don't think that "weasel-worded" is part of the job requirement, ake, but "intelligent politicians" would be nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 05:00 PM

I think some of them are quite intelligent. That does not mean, however, that they will act in the interests of the electorate once elected.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 06:39 PM

What we need at this moment is not some nanny state, police state, or similar organisation by those who would rule us, but the simple realisation that we as individuals are on our own in the survival stakes.

We dont need to be super intelligent to know that this system and the services it supports is in meltdown and has been so for twenty years, propped up by credit and newly printed money.
Western society no longer supports itself by what it produces, or even what it can steal from others. The centre of gravity has shifted, Capitalism is blindly searching for new victims to leech from....a race to oblivion.

We are all coming to see that politians cannot help us when we have nothing to give in return, we must rely on our own strength and our goodwill to neighbours.

Within a couple of decades I see a subsistance economy, much like the years following WW2 for many of the people in Western Europe and America.....the Third World will rise and fall just as we have done, perhaps we will see a revolution against Technology, destruction of the wheel and all it produces...who knows...or shall we continue to destroy one another and our environment in a mad search for a "better easier" life.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 07:53 PM

Ake, whatever we need, it isn't a simple-minded bimbo. And that's Palin to a T.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Nov 09 - 08:16 PM

Ake, it isn't that new money has been "printed" exactly...it's been merely created on balance sheets and ledgers and digital records in the form of debt...but it hasn't been printed. The printed cash and coin in circulation is probably less than 1 per cent of all the money that is supposedly in play in the system right now, most of it sitting supposedly in the banks (but it's not really there because it's not real).

For a really interesting read on how banks have done this by creating debts (through lending money) and drawing interest on those debts, thereby creating vast amounts of fictional money and steady inflation...read "The Creature from Jeckyl Island", among various other books on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:27 AM

"coming from you".

Kaum zu glauben.

So the poster who doesn't think 10% unemployment for 4 years would be a serious re-election problem for President Obama has declined to provide his own criteria on which the 2012 election will be based, though he was cordially invited to do so. He does not believe the main factors will be 1) war and 2) the economy.    I'm sure his omission to list his own determinants is just an oversight.   Soon he will give us his theory.   Since I'm sure he wouldn't want to be mistaken for a vulgar clueless ideologue who can criticize, is indeed given to apoplectic spluttering, but has no ideas of his own.

I'm quite certain he is not such a person.

Though admittedly it does seem to be true that he is far more comfortable in the gutter. There seemed to be a palpable sigh of relief in his last posting, since he could relax and be himself. I'm sure nobody would want him to be uncomfortable. I certainly want him to be totally happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 08:47 AM

Rant On, oh Simple Seeker, Rant On. I'm sure you're impressing yourself mightily.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 12:06 PM

There's an almost fatal level of sarcasm hovering in the air around here... ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:42 PM

Gee, Greg, I assure you that whenever anybody describes you as a clueless vulgar ideologue with no idea of his own--or even as a vulgar clueless ideologue--I object strenuously.   Just as when they allege that your claim to be a professor who has taught 19th century history for several decades is a total fabrication. Since anybody with a smattering of knowledge of history or politics would be able to grasp the concept of political capital, which seems to elude you. And would certainly realize that the #1 and #2 determinants of virtually any US presidential election--definitely the one in 2012-- are 1)   war and 2) the economy. When they bring these accusations against you up, I always defend you, and say there must be an explanation.

Though I do have a problem trying to rebut those who say that not only is it obvious that war and the economy are virtually always the top two determinants in any US presidential election, but that this is so painfully obvious that objecting to it is tantamount to objecting to Darwinism--another "theory".    It is blazingly obvious to any sentient being that both are true.   So it follows that if you don't believe both of these you are not a sentient being. You're being pictured as so bound by ego that you refuse to admit the obvious if you yourself did not say it---that you pick out the least seaworthy vessel and lash yourself to the mast. I'm sure of course that this is rank slander, and that you are unquestionably a sentient being. So I do my best to defend you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 09 - 11:46 PM

I gotta song fer that country western Taylor gal, sorta goes sumpin like this.





When I was just a little girl
I asked my mother, what will I be
Will I be pretty, will I be rich
Here's what she said to me.

Hey Sarah, Palin,
Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours, to see
Hey Sarah, Palin
What will be, will be.

When I was young, I fell in love
I asked my sweetheart what lies ahead
Will we shoot raindeer, from an airplane
Here's what my sweetheart said.

Hey Sarah, Palin
Whatever we see, we see
The future's just hours, for me
Hey Sarah, Palin
What we see, we see.

Now I have children of my own
They ask their mother, what will I be
Will I be handsome, will I be rich
I tell them tenderly.

You betcha, ya know
It took that ol man Mc Cain
ta give me some TV fame
now book tours are just a game
so Hoo Raw Hoo Raw

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:21 AM

Nice sense of humour Don.....You ole cynic you!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:20 AM

Rave On, there, Simple- told you I wasn't going to play "Simple Seeker Says" any longer. Do have fun playing with yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:55 AM

my other Palin song was set to the Gambler. "know when to walk away, know when to run."


You know what a cynic would not do? A cynic would NOT compare and contrast Sarah Palin with another lady and mother who went on to become president.

The similarities are shocking!

Going Raw
An American Opportunist

A ghost written autobiography of a selfless dedicated mother who honed her political skills to eventually become president of her country.

She attended grade school through Teachers' Training College in the cold winds of icy Milwaukee. More on this remarkable young woman

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 12:34 PM

Palin is in her 40s. She still has the time - if not the interest or the ability - to earn respect

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 12:41 PM

Sarah Palin is not simple-minded in any clinical sense, but she is simplistic in her thinking. In positions of power this is almost always a liability--witness "black or white" W--because it reduces complex situational flows to static binary judgements, greatly increasing the probability of error, ja?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Smedley
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 12:47 PM

Agreed, Amos, but the problem is that large parts of the public crave the simplicty of such stances, as the real complexity of issues is difficult to acknowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 01:10 PM

Indeed, Smedley. The public generally is quite impressed by politicians who boldly state things from a simple and dramatic stance, backed up by an attitude of impassioned moral certainty. Consider Ronald Reagan's popularity in that regard.

It's much more important in modern marketing to look right and to sound right than to BE right. Politicians know this, and that is why most of them engage in a great deal of posturing. Their handlers know it even better, and that is why they are given disingenuous and misleading speeches to read. It's almost all PR rather than real content. It's a sales job.

The question is whether Sarah can sell herself effectively to enough people in order to succeed. That's always the question.

Obama, for example, sold himself very effectively to the people in 2008. His was the most brilliant campaign in that sense. McCain's performance was quite poor in that sense. Hillary's performance was rather good, but she couldn't touch the sales job that Obama had going for him....and he did get far more funding, and funding is crucial to a sales campaign.

Now what is the reality? I very much doubt that the USA is going to pull out of Iraq. It looks to me like the Afghan war is going to be continued indefinitely, probably intensified. There may yet be a war with Iran. Guantanamo has not been closed, and I doubt that it will be. The Palestinians have not been offered anything useful to resolve their conflict with Israel or to improve their wretched situation. The so-called Health Care bill looks to me like a big gift to the private health insurance companies which will provide them with a lot more customers.

So did people get what they voted for? No. What they got (from the Duopoly) was a cyclical and cynical change of party (Big F-in deal!), an intelligent black couple in the White House (Well, that's kind of refreshing to see...who'd-a thunk it?), basically the curtains have been changed and the furniture's been dusted and moved around, but Americans are still living in the same house they were living in back in 2008, and it's running by the same rules. And the wars go on. And the banks rule the roost.

Will Sarah Palin ever become president? Well...who can say...but she will if the powers that be in Amerika decide that that can best serve their ultimate purposes at some point, and if she doesn't torpedo herself so badly as to make the necessary PR job to put her there completely impossible. If that should happen, well, then they'll just find another "face" to sell. There's always another face to sell. Politicians are temporary and expendable, but the great money-driven $ySStem that places them before you intends to be around forever.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 02:10 PM

You are jaded, cynical, myopic and bitter in these matters, Monsieur le Hack. Also dismissive, condescending, somewhat smug and (in my humble small opinion) not quite in touch with reality.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM

You need not define realite' pour me mon ami, eet defines itself in every changeable moment. In zee future zee Palin wars will be heralded as the pinnicle of the Boosh doctrine. Zee songs of these wars will be few but will be sung by rapturous fervent patriotic souls, such az

Thank goodness for little guerres
for little guerres grow bigger every day...
without them what would leetle boys do.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:18 PM

Zee petite hawk , how you say, heet zee nail on zee head.

Zee right wing tout la Monde all speak of zair issues in highly emotional words dezined to evoke zee most feeiings of fear, dread, malady and woe. Zee progressive defers to zee even toned factual well reasoned response. Ecoute' Hitler, now listen to Chamberlin or even le Churchill. Liszen to zee rants et tears of Beck ou Limbaugh
et contrast theze to Thomas Friedman.

What do zee people remember? Zey remember zair feelingz of outrage and zee fear. Zey recall feelingz of pride for be called zee greatest patroits on zee planet.

Of what do zey remember of the liberal speech? Pour chance zey recall a few facts that fade like shells in ze sands at tide.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:48 PM

Donuel, your dissertation reminds me of some years ago when I asked an operative of a private employment agency why the agency was called 'Verk'.

He said it's kind of a play on 'work' as a German would say it, he said.

I reminded him that a German would not pronounce Verk like 'work' at all, that in German a V is an F. He had no idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 03:55 PM

Madam Ebbiette, ziss alter ego ez zupposed to be French, not Allamande. IF eet is verte' annoying, blame Amos

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:09 PM

Yes, blame Amos! ;-) He is, after all, to blame for a great many things in zis suffering world of woe which we inhabit. Imagine! He refers to me as "jaded, cynical, myopic and bitter". Zut allors! He further refers to me as "dismissive, condescending, somewhat smug and not quite in touch with reality". Tabernac!!! I weel disembowel zis feelthy swine wiz one stroke of my pen (mightier zan ze sword) and scatter hees feelthy entrails to zee four weends!

(The above is a parody of one or more European accents transposed upon English words. While there is some leaning toward cliched Gallic accent stereotypes often seen in what was once termed the Yellow Press, one can also find hints of Latin American and even perhaps German inflections...but who can say?)

A German does tend to pronounce the English word "work" as "verk" (if you write what he says in English)...but if you were to write it in German, then "verk" would be pronounced "furk" (in English), except that there would 2 dots above the "u", and........actually, you know, this is too difficult to merit the time required to explain it.

Let's instead try to compose an essay about the relative merits of Dachshunds, and why they would make better presidents than the people usually picked by the Democratic and Republican Party*.

*(note: the singular form "Party" was intentional on my part). ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:49 PM

NON Monsieur! It is I who az been refered to as jaded et cynical et bereft of any sense of realite" NOT YOU monsieur, so leetle bird you may just fly away now shoo shoo.
Mon Dieu Do you not know zat I am ze Hack?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 04:51 PM

"Agreed, Amos, but the problem is that large parts of the public crave the simplicty of such stances, as the real complexity of issues is difficult to acknowledge."

The public crave the truth, they have had enough of Jack the Lad who can carry out a bit of first aid, a bit of newspeak,a little sleight of hand.

The answer is simple, not complex,how to survive for another two decades using this discredited system is complex.

The answer is easy, but will never be accepted by Capitalists or their "liberal" pot carriers. Cut wasteful consumerism, encourage self- sufficiency, abandon piracy and wars of aggression, curb population growth, teach children the value of real jobs,not how to amass money, teach them to appreciate the beauty and wonder of our environment and most importantly, that this world owes no one a living.All the indulgencies of the human rights legislation should be weighed in the scales of common sense.

The answer is easy, but putting it into practice will be no easy ride, with no room for hypocrites.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 05:11 PM

Well, akenaton, here would be my solutions to the world's problems...if it's solutions people here want. Or do we just want to bitch and vent our frustrations? ;-)

We ALL want the truth. Correct? Okay, so number one, the politicians and news media and everyone in charge need to start telling people the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about everything that is going on and why. The truth WILL set people free.

That was no. 1.

2. We need to end poverty since poverty creates much crime and social desperation and also fuels many military conflicts. There would have to be a concerted effort to end poverty around the world. This could be done by (a) providing better education for people in any place where they need it (while respecting the local culture) and (b) providing useful work for those people, work that is not harmful to others nor to the natural environment...and that brings us to no. 3...

3. We need a worldwide worker's Bill of Rights so that people in all parts of the world get paid a similar comparable wage for similar comparable effort and accomplishment. I don't mean that everyone gets paid the same wage! I mean that if you are a miner in India, you get paid the same actual wage in real purchasing power where you live that a miner in Russia or the UK or America gets paid.

4. We need an end to war and general disarmament of most of our more destructive weaponry. We need an end to imperialism by larger nations over smaller ones.

Hmmmm. Now how could all of the above be achieved? It would require that our leaders be motivated by idealism to help all humanity, not by power-seeking or monetary gain. Hmmm!

And it would require a public who can rise above mere selfishness and narrow parochialism to a genuine desire to assist all their fellow human beings and to heal the damage that's been done to the planet.

In short, everyone would have to grow up emotionally and rise to the best that is within them.

Now...how do we do that? ;-)

I try to do the best I can by making my own life a good and harmless one. I figure that's my angle of effectiveness on the whole thing. One changes the world by changing oneself, in my opinion.

There are a few people in this world who act powerfully to change many in a more positive direction. At one time such people were termed "saints". I'm all for that, and I salute their efforts when their efforts yield positive results.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 06:11 PM

worldwide worker's Bill of Rights ?

The IWW (wobblies) made a good start of such a bill of rights.
They are the people who made it nessesary for corporations to demonize these citiaens as the greatest Communist threat to the American way. Keep it on the down low but the American way is still founded on slavery and depends on it to this very day. The problem today is that we outsourced our slaves to Asia which left America with only a tenth of the manufacturing workers that created a stable middle class to buy goods and pay taxes.


HERE IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO

Unless America wnats to be second class in all things but nuclear weapons we need to engage in NATION BUILDING, REBUILD Our Nation for a change.
We stand a good chance against the competition of BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China) since we as a mongrel mixed breed nation will have an advantage over nations that are limited by claste in India and the deep seated Han Chinese racism and the comparably less than homogenous countries of Brazil and Russia.

By design Globalism is a club exclusive only to corporations and banks. To suggest globalism for workers is anathma to free marketeers who enjoy the exploitation of workers. The closer the model of corporate workers is to slavery, the more ideal it becomes.

Long term planning for building a sustainable clean solar and hydrogen energy economy will go far to achieve American pride.

Unfortunatly the first workers to arrive at the clean energy factories are in Japan and Northern Europe. Education is our fundamental heartbeat that will sustain and create people here who may find the next innovation that is friendly to life and the pursuit of happiness.

The greedy bubble makers in the financial industry must be dealt with so severly that it will undoubtedly create a back lash. But the simple fact is if we lay seige to Wall Street and in return Wall Street does the same, our dream of progress will be in limbo. We need to declare the equivalent of war against the foreign and domestic financial enemies of the USA. They have done more deep seated damage to this country than all our wars since WW II. They wrung us dry and still want more.

In the battle between the full faith and power of the United States Government and the International capital of Wall Street and worldwide banks you can be sure that Wall street will have no mercy. They would seek to crush the US economy for their own ends, and have done so several times in case you haven't noticed.

We need federal judges, education and workers for nation building here at home. With less eteranal war and healthier citizens we can rise from the ashes of the most disasterous party of greedy gone wild financeers.

Recoverying from this current Gilded Age will take at least 3 generations which is pretty darn good. A clear mission is all it takes for people to know enough to care enough to work with the joy of mutual prosperity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 08:06 PM

Actuellemt, mon vieux Donuel, c'etait le "awk auquel je faisait reference, et non pas le "'Ack".

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 08:37 PM

There should be blazing headlines on a daily basis: ECONOMIC COUP IN THE WORLD's BANKS! TRILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS STOLEN!

Think about all the vital issues you care about and then think about the Trillions of dollars that were stolen. How could a small fraction of that money directly affect the issues you care about most? We need to make this connection, and we need to make the theft of Trillions of dollars THE LEAD ISSUE RIGHT NOW!

Just think about how much can be done with this stolen money. The highest quality universal healthcare could be provided to everyone in the US. Every foreclosed mortgage in the US can be paid off, for that matter, it would take a fraction of the stolen money to provide a free house to every family in the US. Thousands upon thousands of jobs can be created with the stolen money. Young people who are shackled with massive student debt can have their loans paid off and we can have free higher education for everyone, not to mention a drastically improved educational system. Think about the social programs across the board that could be funded to improve our societal functions and standards of living, if we could use the stolen tax money for what it was originally intended for.

This money could be used to help combat the environmental crisis. The bottom line is that people seem to be missing the point that this stolen money could be used to actually solve many of the serious issues we are confronted with. This is not a utopian dream, the resources are available, it could be a reality, if we had the stolen tax money.

featured Franklin D. Roosevelt talked about an Economic Bill of Rights, he never had a chance to implement them, but if we were to recoup the Trillions that have been stolen from us, we could turn FDR's Economic Bill of Rights into a reality.


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx


People saw their retired neighbor lose his pension because the company did a side step sale and took all the pension money. They passed laws to make it legal to not even fund pensions.
But that was your neighbor not you so you didn't care that much.

Now "they" got it all and you are going to have less than you even now imagine.

The best heroic plot line I have thought of this year is about a group of dedicated young system analysts at the GAO in Washington DC who conspire and carry out the greatest take back of the 92 Trillion dollar theft over the last 15 years that leaves Goldman Sachs and AIG and others in the position of riches to rags.

The US Government of the people by the people and for the people finally becomes too big to fail and entraps all the most corrupt CEOs and financeer banksters to a deal they can not refuse. These pompous greedy gangsters are treated like drug lords forced to take a plea or try to flee the full force of the US armed forces.

The banksters who try to fight back are left with Arab mercenaries and Blackwater as their body guards and are defeated in a matter of weeks. The palaces mansions and island estates left behind become vacation resorts for the emerging workforce who had lost their jobs homes and loved ones at the hand of the now dead or imprisoned Banksters and CEO con men. Near the end, proof is found at a Bilderberg Estate detailing the corporate investments toward a 1,000 year Reich master slave society without the needless extra 4 billion peple on the planet.

Yep its a A full blown action hero thriller with shameless parallels to the actual criminals at large.

If you are talented in character development for screenplays, please PM me regarding any interest and/or experience. Anything is possible.
Possible movie titles Losers weepers, 2013, Arrogant Bastards
The 13 patriots.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:03 PM

Amos, While I am apparently not the ACK to whom you refer I am indeed the Hak.
The ancedote as to how my step grandfather got the name Hakman at Ellis Island in the 1920's goes something like this.

After the long sickening and crowded voyage in steerage my grandmother and grandfather finally made it up to the processing line at Ellis Island which would eventually lead to the health check or quarantine and finally to enter the United States as legal immigrants. As they stood before a beaurocrat behind wooden bars who was nearly as exhausted as they;
The man made some crude cultural slurs in their direction such as "These dirty Hebs give me the Hebe Jeebies. Grandfather caught the jist of his remarks and replied in Yiddish "Hak mir nicht!" which means "Don't knock me". The clerk said Hakmir? OK now your name is Hakman.
Thats how the family name of Tostoyovich became Hakman with the stroke of a pen.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 09:50 PM

Amost wrote:
"You are jaded, cynical, myopic and bitter in these matters, Monsieur le Hack. Also dismissive, condescending, somewhat smug and (in my humble small opinion) not quite in touch with reality.
"

Ain't it good to know that people can disagree and yet come to terms on your good points?

"Verk" as an employment agency owner's take on German pronunciation? Subbing a V for a W is more of a Slavic take, because Russian and Polish don't have a native 'W' sound. On the other hand, the slavic word for 'work' is based on the root robota from which we derive the word ROBOT because of a Czech play from the 30's called "RUR" (Rossum's Universal Robots) by the great Karel Capek.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:07 PM

What fun, ambition or joy there was to be clebrated here is now undone. Adieu

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Genie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 10:48 PM

In case you missed Sarah Palin on Oprah, here is a 30-sec. recap of what she told Oprah. ; D

Sarah Palin on Oprah: nutshell version

Not sure who put this together. I got it from Thom Hartmann and from Carl Wolfson and Christine Alexander, of the KPOJ 620 AM, Portland, OR Morning Show.

I think it sums up Ms. Sarah pretty nicely, don't you?


Genie

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Amos
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 11:27 PM

Genie:

Your link is mis-formed--it goes to "mypage" on YouTube (which is different for every user if they have a YouTube cookie). I think you need to get the link for a specific video.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Genie
Date: 24 Nov 09 - 11:32 PM

Thanks for the heads-up, Amos.

How's this?.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 12:51 AM

Donuel, you were dead right when you wrote:


"There should be blazing headlines on a daily basis: ECONOMIC COUP IN THE WORLD's BANKS! TRILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS STOLEN!

Think about all the vital issues you care about and then think about the Trillions of dollars that were stolen. How could a small fraction of that money directly affect the issues you care about most? We need to make this connection, and we need to make the theft of Trillions of dollars THE LEAD ISSUE RIGHT NOW!"

Absolutely. It is the lead issue right now. The large bankers in the western world should in fact all be arrested for perpetrating a gigantic ponzi scheme on society, and that includes the so-called Federal Reserve in the USA. The Federal Reserve notes should be exchanged at a realistic rate for a complete new currency that is fully backed by reserves of precious metals...meaning gold and silver and fully redeemable in same upon demand. Otherwise it's not real money, it's just monopoly money, and it's in reality not even worth the paper it's printed on.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 01:10 AM

Oh, and the fractional reserve lending rules which allow banks to lend out 10 times the actual deposits their customers (meaning us) have put in them should be rescinded. There should be NO fractional reserve lending allowed at all by banks anywhere. They should only be allowed to lend out 1 dollar for every original dollar deposited into their accounts....and only once. At present, they end up doing it about 28 times at a 10 to 1 ratio, plus interest on top of that!

Real deposits of $100 x 10 loans of $100 each x 28 repeats of the same loaning cycle = a final total of $28,000 PLUS the interest created....and all of it came magically out of the original $100 in real deposits. The banks created it through creating debt. How long does that process take? Not too long. And that is why a $20 gold piece once bought one hell of a lot more in the USA or Canada than your $20 paper bill does now...because the money supply has been inflated about 280 or more times (plus the accrued interest) through lending it out over and over again and drawing interest on all those loans while inflating the currency.

To end that fractional reserve banking practice which is really a giant ponzi scheme would utterly change the present financial situation, and it would restore the value of our currency to something real with enduring and dependable value.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 08:46 AM

Now this is interesting.   LH and, it seems, every other reader of the thread can see clearly that, as I said, the top determinants of virtually every US presidential election--and certainly the 2012 one--are 1) war and 2) the economy. Only you, Greg, cannot see this. If we hazard a guess that this is not in fact due to a problem you might possibly have with such a tender, easily bruised ego that you cannot admit anybody else might be right-- even in stating an obvious truth-- then it's a total mystery why you cannot see this obvious truth. So when we reject your ego problem--perish the thought--as a possible answer to this question, we are completely stymied.

As the King of Siam said: T'is a puzzlement.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Nov 09 - 09:40 AM

...we are completely stymied.

Ah, yes the Royal "we" - thus spake Emperor Simple.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 12:54 PM

The poster has learned how to type "ex cathedra". And is obviously impressed with this accomplishment, since he has done it 3 times just in this thread.   It's certainly true that he can, as they used to say, "increase your word power" by continuing to quote me.   Of course, that is, if he learns what the phrase actually means.

All he has to do now, it seems, is to learn to distinguish between an ex cathedra pronouncement and a political truism. My statement on the top factors in any US presidential election--certainly the one in 2012--is of course the latter, not the former.   But I have every confidence he can eventually learn this.



I read yesterday --Washington Post, I think---that the Fed predicts that in 2012 unemployment will still be about 7%.   Obviously it's pure speculation on anybody's part, but if this proves true, it means continuing misery for a lot of people. And a serious problem for a sitting president. We'll see what does happen.





At any rate, Happy Thanksgiving to anybody who celebrates it.   Yes, this includes you, Greg.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:15 PM

Most people don't even know what the phrase "ex cathedra" means...but one can, of course, look it up on the Net. Before I do, though, may I say, Ron, that I am so mightily impressed by your casual use of that phrase and your generally urbane and saucy wit that I would kneel down and kiss your lilywhite hand were I in a position to do so....

(Heh!)

(Just thought I'd add a little more cooking oil to the snide pot of prissy sarcastic mutual backbiting that is boiling away so pleasantly on this thread between you and Greg. Why should I leave you two to do it all alone?)

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:41 PM

Ah gee, LH, ah didn't know you keered.   But welcome.   There's always room for another voice. By the way, do they have something similar to Thanksgiving in Canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 01:49 PM

Yes we do, Ron. But it's on a different date. Yours, I see by my calendar, is on November 26th. We had ours back on October 12th.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 10:07 PM

LH--what do you guys do for Pilgrims and Indians and the rest of the US mythology?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:52 PM

I'm trying to remember, Ron....

Hmm. Well, I'm not quite sure what stories get told to Canadian children about it. The "Pilgrim" thing isn't that big a deal up here, that's for sure. I think it's more just along the lines of a harvest festival, a way to enjoy the last reprieve of nice Autumn weather and all that late summer and fall fresh produce before winter comes in. We eat turkey, have a big meal, pumpkin or apple pie, and that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Nov 09 - 11:57 PM

Trying to remember the time in November....?

Subject: RE: BS: Sarah Palin on Oprah TV show 16 Nov
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 01:11 AM

No, I mean I can't recall what we did back in Canadian Grade school about it. All that stuff kind of got overlayed by my later school experiences down in the USA from Grade 4 to the end of high school. I can hardly remember those first few years of school in Canada, aside from a few key incidents and some friends I had.

I do remember a brown-haired girl named Diane Powell. I was madly in love with her. She was an "older woman"...she was in Grade 4 and I was in Grade 3.