BS: Film : Avatar

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:03 PM

This discussion of the politics is, in my opinion, closer to the reality.

Corporate bad guys?

I don't think those that are dissing the message of Avatar are taking into account that it has been brought to us by the same corporation that brings us Hannity and Glen Beck.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 03:20 PM

SRS


Obviously some people like lists and others, like you consider themselves to be above them. Speaking for those of us who find lists and comparisons useful and time saving and who still somehow consider themselves to be rational. We do know how to take such things with a grain of salt and we know how to place a value on other people's opinions, even opinions as lofty as yours.


Hi Kat,

Interesting article, I don't find myself agreeing with many of the underlying assumptions of it though.

Cameron and subversive "left winger" Has this person bothered to look at the list of movies Cameron has made?
Does anyone think it is unrealistic to portray conflict between mercenaries and miners vs natives anything but violent and exploitive?
Where is the example in our history of benevolent conquerors?
Pizzaro? Cortez? The British East India Company? HBC? Texico in the rain forests? The US Cavalry against the Apache?
I thought Cameron was careful not to blame the US or its people.

It may have been a little over the top when the main character said "sent them back to their dirty planet." But it was credible for the character to feel that way.

I think Cameron was just telling the best story possible to display the techniques and characters he wanted to portray. I don't really think he had a political agenda. On the other hand. If he wants to win and Oscar he'd better keep that to himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:57 AM

Just because these works of art are all on film doesn't mean that comparing them or ranking them, film to film, is a particularly rational thing to do. Same with books or photographs or anything else. They are stand-alone works of art, but they also represent a time and place and milestones that we look back at. There may easily be circumstances when it would make more sense to compare a book and a film (not necessarily the same story) or a film and a musical score, or a book and a musical score, than to compare one film next to another.

The story and the acting and the technology all go into the work, from whatever period, but it is ultimately up to the viewer to bring what they know to the work of art and decide how they feel about it. In a Postmodern world, this is almost a given, though not quite. Not by the people who are intent on making lists and disregarding the idea that lists are themselves a construction open to interpretation. They are a distraction from the art itself. They should be used only as an enumeration of items people might want to look at and enjoy and compare for themselves. Context is everything.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 11:04 AM

My apologies if this has already been posted. Interesting piece on how Avatar has upset the conservatives HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jan 10 - 04:46 AM

Tati's "Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot" - better known in the UK as "Monsieur Hulot's Holiday" - is a story, told more in mime and sound effects than dialogue, about an eccentric Frenchman on holiday in a little seaside resort. Very funny and charming - and a classic of French cinema. Tati was one of the presenters at the National Film Theatre during the Golden Silents season. A large part of his presentation was a selection from his silent music-hall mime act - brilliant.

Tom & Jerry can be an acquired taste. "The Cat Concerto" won an Oscar in 1946 and is different from the usual chase sequences in that Tom is a concert pianist playing a version of one of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies - with Jerry asleep inside the piano. The comedy - particularly the use of the piano keys and hammers - is incredibly inventive and beautifully animated.

"A Matter Of Life And Death" is unique - better to look up the synopsis than let me ramble through a plot which is part fantasy, part melodrama, part philosophy.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 06:46 PM

The Battle Of Algiers (Pontecorvo, 1966)A film in a class by itself (a GREAT film) and a lot to tell us about what we are going through in the world today. Some of the actors were historical participants. A must see with a whole lot more going for it than stuff like the disenchantment of "Valley of Elah" or the navel gazing (to no purpose) of "Lions and Lambs".

Blade Runner - Directors' Cut (Scott, 1982)One of the rare spinoffs based rather loosely on the great Sci Fi author Philip K Dick. It's been pretty easy to take his ideas loosely, but rather harder to make a film that is true to his stories, partly because his settings are at least half psychological. Maybe Hitchcock AND CGI could have achieved it. I dread the day someon like Cameron tries to tackle "Ubik".

Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot (Tati, 1953)Didn't see it, don't know it.

The Day The Earth Stood Still (Wise, 1951)Case in point, the original movie is well acted and the special effects, though limited, still hold sway today with the spare grim presentation of Gort, and the inspired use of the theremin. The movie has characters, plot, excellent writing, pacing, a simple and straightforward message presented with much less manipulation than the cliche that is Avatar. Last year a travesty was issued under the name of TDTESS, with in fact a similar message to that of Avatar. It was like hijacking Shakespeare or Dickens (filmicly speaking). Poorly paced, poorly plotted, an unbelievable context for an ok message, it panders to this age instead of presenting the original stark timeless message.

Seven Samurai (Kurosawa, 1954)One of the great movies of all time. I wonder if issuing this in Blu-Ray can add anything? It was Japan's tribute to the John Ford western, and like good little copycats the Americans re-issued it as Magnificent Seven, with an inspired soundtrack. I don't want to generalize, but Americans sure know how to copy a good idea (and many many bad ones).

Tom & Jerry: The Cat Concerto (Barbera, 1946)Sorry, not into Tom & Jerry. (I think I'd rather watch Avatar again!) Itchy and Scratchy are the logical culmination of all Tom & Jerrys (although Jerry did okay sharing the action with Fred Astaire (or was it Gene Kelly?)The little basterd rodent had some moves.

A Matter Of Life And Death (Powell & Pressburger, 1946)(Didn't see it, ignorant sod)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 05:14 PM

A 1910 Rolls Royce was a great car for its time. But a modern Ford Focus is a better car.

Well... perhaps... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:35 PM

Yes bILL, I am sure that will work.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:34 PM

Will, you have two of my favorites there.

Blade Runner has compelling characters and a fascinating theme. Seven Samurai is a fantastically well crafted action comedy.

If we are talking about the best movie given its current state of the art, then one could make a case for either being the best ever. But film makers like all craftsmen, build on the past.

A 1910 Rolls Royce was a great car for its time. But a modern Ford Focus is a better car.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:34 PM

"circular" polarization, whatever that is"

ah ha ... a polarizing filter ... I have a few for various camera lenses I have. These polarizing filters are used for enhancing the the sky (water etc) .... you turn the ring of the filter to extract the degree of blue when using colour film or darkness when using B&W.

maybe I can use these.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 02:15 PM

Just been looking through my DVD collection. How do you think the following films would measure up against "Avatar"?:

The Battle Of Algiers (Pontecorvo, 1966)
Blade Runner - Directors' Cut (Scott, 1982)
Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot (Tati, 1953)
The Day The Earth Stood Still (Wise, 1951)
Seven Samurai (Kurosawa, 1954)
Tom & Jerry: The Cat Concerto (Barbera, 1946)
A Matter Of Life And Death (Powell & Pressburger, 1946)

etc,. etc.

Just a tiny selection from my DVD collection - think about the wonderful films made through the years - and then think about "the greatest film"... All choice is personal, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:57 PM

Sony is about to make 3d tvs with the same technology. But they will require their own versions of the glasses. Note that there is one irritating thing about the 3d. At movies, Carol likes to sit way back from the screen. Having the whole screen and then some in the field of vision meant that some of the 3d effects would disappear into the angular corners. That proved distracting at the time and brought one slightly out of the story. The 3d version of the movie was 3 dollars more than the conventional one. The specs therefor, even if subsidized, could not have cost much more than 3 dollars. They reportedly work by "circular" polarization, whatever that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: number 6
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 11:52 AM

Jack the sailor .... "Dr Strange Love or Blade Runner" ... I have to agree with you on those 2 excellent movies.

The bottom line in all of this is what Carol says "different strokes, for different folks" ... what is the "best is" is objective in the viewers mind. To me (and to many others) Dr. Strangelove is one of the best. Whether it is, doesn't really matter ... but it did make a big impression on a 12 year old kid (me) who saw it in the theatre way back when. The impression it made stamped a pacifist outlook that would remain with me through my life time. If Avatar does the same to some kid now ... then it is a wonderful movie indeed.

I also would say there is a slight generational gap in tastes of movies these days ... having already been through a heated (but a very fun debate) with my son on Christmas eve regarding this movie and the technical innovations/effects of the director J. Cameron and his ilk.

Now ... some of you say my old 3D viewers will not work if I view Avatar on my TV ..... Damn it !!

biLL    :)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 10:44 AM

People's perspective seems to be very short when those "greatest ever" or "best of the century" lists are created. They lose all perspective to the early, ground-breaking events. They also usually don't even know to take other parts of the world into account on these lists.

I usually ignore those sorts of lists and that kind of hyperbole.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:58 AM

Bring on the nuns and the trapeze artists, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Amergin
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:50 AM

Yeah especially since the greatest film ever made was Behind The Green Door.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Will Fly
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 04:42 AM

Back in the early 70s, when living in London, I was a member of the National Film Theatre, whose cinema and HQ was (and is) on the South Bank. There was a summer season of films called "The Golden Silents" for which a ticket to all 30 films could be purchased, and the season lasted, including some late-night showings, for several weeks. During that season, I saw some of the most wonderful films I've ever seen - and, I think, that were ever made. Each film was introduced with a preliminary talk by an actor or director or member of the NFT, and each one was accompanied on the piano by one of those two (then) stalwarts of the silent cinema, Florence De Jong and Arthur Dulay. In most cases, the original b&w prints had been cleaned and restored to their original quality - which was stunning.

What an experience it was! The Phantom Of The Opera and The Hunchback Of Notre Dame with Lon Chaney (Senior)... Chaplin's City Lights... amazing films by Georges Melies... the list goes on.

The experiences of widescreen, IMAX, 3D, etc., are also marvellous, I'm sure, and I'm not knocking Avatar as I haven't seen it. But when I hear phrases like "the greatest film ever made" for modern films, I sometimes wonder if the person saying it has really sampled the amazing range of film made from the 1900s to the present day. Just a thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jan 10 - 01:19 AM

The dialog is where the genocide is implied. Listen to the chief military honcho, early in the film. "They're really hard to kill." It's in there.

I don't know how anyone would commercially make the kind of glasses you first read about--too much to have stay on one's face. Maybe that is speculation on future generations of 3D film technology. The glasses at my theater were just handed out, no charge.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 11:40 PM

Correction to my last post. The glasses ARE polarized. The first Article I read was unclear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealD_Cinema

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 11:32 PM

A few points.


The three D glasses were not polarized or tinted. According to a review I read they have alternating shutters synchronized at 120 blinks per second to sort out alternating images projected on the screen. How they can build that and sell it for 3 dollars baffles me. It will be a good experience to see the movie on a home theater even not in 3d but I strongly suggest the experience in a theater, preferably in IMAX.

I can easily say it is the best movie I have ever seen. Maybe I can explain that by saying that most of my favorites are Science Fiction like Dr Strange Love or Blade Runner or very visually compelling films such as Lawrence of Arabia and Seven Samurai. The experience of seeing Avatar for the first time even surpassed the experience of seeing Star Wars with fresh eyes.

With this new technology available, perhaps I can finally look forward to a film adaptation of RingWorld.

SPOILER ALERT!!

There is no implied genocide. Some seem to have inferred genocide, but the script did not go there. In fact the company would prefer that the natives were not hurt at all. It only attacks two specific positions, the first a tree village, the second a religious site, when the traitor avatar, traitor from the company's point of view, the hero of the movie, attacks the hundred foot tall bulldozer. The conflict then becomes personal. The military commander of the base is a psycho and one of the best villians I have seen in a movie. Think of a cross between Generals Custer and "Buck" Turgidson (from Dr. Strangelove) with the ruthless of the Queen alien from Aliens.

I don't think it is fair to say that another movie told the story better. A quarter billion people will enjoy this story as Cameron wrote it. I think that is a pretty good result from his decade of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gervase
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 05:03 PM

Looks like a triumph of style over substance, or form over content. One for the geeks and the computer nerds, I fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:35 PM

No surprise, I expect, that in under 3 weeks that it has been out, Avatar has broken all sorts of records. There was a story about it on NPR this afternoon.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:26 PM

The 3-D experience ..... George Orwell's "the feelies" ... Brave New World.

Hmmmmm .... now there's a thought.


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 04:11 PM

In comparing the dreadful (hackneyed, illogical, uninspiring) story of Avatar, a reviewer recently brought up Princess Mononoke, which made the same thematic points only with much greater creative imagination.

If I have to say anything good about Avatar, I'd call it a triumph of rendering, but next year there will be another triumph of rendering, and the cliches of Avatar will have long 'rendered' it to the ash heap of unwatchability.

Even Toy Story is coming out with a 3D version.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:33 PM

Now this flick looks more intriguing .... and it's probably in panavision ....

Space Battleship Yamato

something has to be said about those 1970's technical effects.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Gweltas
Date: 03 Jan 10 - 01:17 AM

To quote from one of the above postings I am "a prisoner of my own lack of vision" in that I have very limited vision in one eye, so 3D doesn't "work" for me. Therefore I went to a cinema while I was in New York that was showing Avatar in regular movie format (not 3D).

It was still the most visually stunning movie that I have ever seen and I loved every minute of it and fully intend to see it again some time soon. For those who are fortunate in having 2 fully functional eyes, seeing it in 3D must surely be the experience of a life time !!

The storyline is a pretty normal one, around which are woven a series of incredibly beautiful concepts and special effects. It is an artistic tour de force and should not be missed ! Realising that there are vastly differing opinions being expressed on the film's merits, all I can say is --don't rely on others' opinions to decide whether or not to go see Avatar --- go see it for yourself and then form your own opinion on what you have experienced.
Anne XX

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 10:21 PM

The new 3D system is a type of polarized lens, though it won't work out of doors. Just in the context of the film.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 04:00 PM

Red and blue glasses won't work with this film. They have a whole new technology now. The glasses now just look like faintly tinted regular glasses. I originally wanted to see the film just so I could see at least one film in 3D. I was curious about the experience. I fully expected to not think very highly of the story itself or of the acting/effects. I was very pleasantly suprised.

(And I imagine you're just being playful, anyway, and you know that you need to see the film at a 3D theater in order for any 3D glasses to work.)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 03:53 PM

I paid $7 for the matinée I went to. It wasn't any more than the other films showing.

This film also didn't waste a lot of time with jealously. There is a scenario where that could be a time-waster, but that seems to be something they didn't build into this new culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:52 PM

Good one Tunesmith. :)

I'll wait for about year and then it will be in the $3.00 DVD bucket at the local Superstore ... I'll purchase it. I still saved my red and blue cellophane viewer that I got when I saw the movie 13 Ghosts many years ago when I was a kid. This old viewer will allow me to experience Avatar in 3D.

CarolC .... I agree about the 'different strokes' ... just expressing my stubborn smart ass opinions here. About the anti-war message in the movie ... all I can say is that there is not enough of these messages in movies.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:23 PM

Number 6: I fear that you are a prisoner of your own lack of vision.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 01:00 PM

Different strokes, 6, but you won't really be able to say for sure whether or not you like it if you haven't seen it.


One of the things I liked about the story is that although it has an anti-war of aggression message, it doesn't vilify warriors and people with a warrior mindset. It just gives them a different kind of possible outlet for their warrior nature; one that I happen to agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:28 AM

I'm not really interested a 3D experience.

Experiencing life is better.

biLL :)

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 11:23 AM

No amount of reading reviews or watching 2D trailers will prepare you for the 3D experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 09:19 AM

This film has been very, very well marketed .... makes one like you absolutely have to go see it ... from the trailer I watched it seems the effects appear to be like any out of a virtual computer game ... especially those avatars and natives... typical virtual eyes, Geeesh .... I keep hearing the "best movie ever" ... that statement in itself makes me want to shy away from it ... especially dropping big $money$ to go see it.

Remember the last "best movie ever", the Titanic (also by J. Cameron) ... were you were a nobody unless you went see it .... well, 13 years or so later it pretty well would not be considered by many to have been the "best movie" ever.

Oh well ... guess I'm a bit of grump to fall for all these mass frenzied cinema attractions. I guess I expect something else out of a movie.

I should also add the people I know who were all caught up in the 'best movie ever' hype warned me not to go see Sherlock Holmes. Well, me and the missus went to see it .... I enjoyed it immensley, no computer generated funny looking beings with those dreadful big pie eyes blinking away ... I certainly would not consider it the best movie ever ... but I didn't feel like I was ripped off on the admission fees and the popcorn.

well ... that was my 2 cents worth ... all I got left (until payday) after spending my $money$ at the cinema.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: freda underhill
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 05:21 AM

I thought it was excellent. It is basically an anti-war of aggression movie. just what young people today need to see. and very artistically done.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jan 10 - 12:16 AM

It will still be an interesting movie, but if you're watching it on a regular screen it will be so small that you'll miss most of the effects. If you can get out to a theater now to see it in 3D I think you'll find it well worth the effort.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 10:01 PM

How might this look on a standard home TV DVD as secured from Netflix?

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:38 PM

Conversely, I understand someone will be selling 3D TVs in the not too distant future, so if someone is totally averse to seeing a movie in the theater and has some money to burn, that might be an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:30 PM

I saw it in 3D and I highly recommend it. The story line is kind of like "Dances With Wolves" had sex with "The Last Samurai" and this is the offspring. But it was done well, and the effects are absolutely to die for. I went expecting to find a glorified cartoon, and found myself buying into it completely. I agree completely with Maggie, the 3D was beyond any rendition I have seen so far, and very important to the delivery. You actually felt the sensations of flying during those sequences. While I might not give the screenplay a 10, it certainly was very good and easy to buy into. Overall I agree that this is one you should spend some shekels on and see in the theater.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 09:00 PM

3D is amazing, with this film. Every so often I would tip the glasses down to see what it looks like. I imagine the film on a regular high definition or Blu-ray delivery will be attractive, but 3D isn't just a gimmick, it really is an important part of the delivery.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:54 PM

3D's definitely better.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:43 PM

Q: I recommend the reverse. If you're going to see it, see it in 3D. That is the experience that generates the raves. If you see it on a small screen, even if HD, and if you care about story at all, you will not get through it, and you'll be left with an expensive beer coaster.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 06:31 PM

Recommended by eleven-year-old grandson. Don't go to the flicks, but I am signed up for a copy when it is released on DVD.

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:58 PM

sigourney weaver looks pretty good also

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:21 PM

Robomatic: I think you must have forgotten to put on your 3D glasses!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 05:12 PM

I think the female aliens with the big ears are HOT!

There are people whose salaries depend on being able to make alien babes hot. It dates from before Star Trek, but ST I made it so frickin' obvious that on a more recent Stargate episode one of the characters said to another "You went all Captain Kirk on her, didn't you?" I hit the floor laughing.

On the 'hot' male alien side we've even got a song reference, courtesy of Julie Brown: "Earth Girls Are Easy", which song led to a movie with Jeff Goldblum and some other guy who was willing to be painted - blue?

And THAT flick was more watchable than Avatar!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: olddude
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 03:47 PM

I think the female aliens with the big ears are HOT!

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jan 10 - 03:24 PM

Well, maybe I'll give it a try and report back.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Film : Avatar
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 09 - 05:19 PM

If you're satisfied with twaddle, Abdul by all means see it again.