BS: Bomb detection

Subject: BS: Bomb detection
From: Alan Day
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 08:18 AM

I cannot understand why a more sophisticated method of bomb detection cannot be produced. Seeing soldiers walking about with metal detectors similar to that which can be bought in the high street, seems a risky and time consuming process. Many soldiers lives are being lost to roadside bombs,I think it needs a bit more thought.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:15 AM

When the detector goes off, the real work starts: removing the device by hand or, preferably, exploding it in place.

That metal detector is a lot more sophisticated than you think. For example, way back in WW2 the Germans started using wooden box mines where the only metal was the detonator made of brass or copper. The metal detector is useless if the mine isn't in the ground -- for instance, a Claymore-type mine by the side of the road or in some bushes or a tree or other places wouldn't be detected.

Then consider car bombs and truck bombs, suicide bombers, and the rest. The detectors you describe aren't exactly feasible for them.

There are two things that really do work: bomb-sniffing dogs and human awareness. When you see something that doesn't belong there, or in some way arouses your suspicions...you call the EOD fellas or blow it yourself. Better to blow up ten pieces of junk than miss one live one.

Then, of course, there are the command detonated ones: cell phones are used these days, for instance, and have themselves been turned into bombs.

I shan't go on. It's all too damned terrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Alan Day
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:31 AM

Thanks Repaire for your comment and experience.
Surely most bombs have to use wires. I was thinking more in terms of a larger version of the metal detector on wheels or hovercraft that can pin point where the bombs are, roadside . A larger sweep pattern of detection.
I realise that we are talking a much more difficult detection pattern for suicide or car/truck carried bombs.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:46 AM

They're already using robots.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:52 AM

There IS another way: helicopters or drones sending out signals which detonate the bombs. Kinda hard on any civilians, though.

You can also shoot detonating cords through mine fields, exploding a more-or-less clear path for walking (well, running).

In the end, there's no substitute yet for human intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:59 AM

Wire-detonation is 20th century technology. As Rapaire said, cell phones or something like a garage-door opener are much more common these days. There is technology that sniffs out explosives just as a dog does, but anything man can invent another man can innovate around.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Dead Horse
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 10:06 AM

You would need an awful lot of robots.
Better to replace the troops on the ground with robots.
But then you would need an awful lot of robots......

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 10:38 AM

The Goliath was the first robot used to detonate enemy minefields during the Battle of Kursk. It was a remote wire guided mini-tank carrying one hell of a charge of explosive. the Germans drove it into the minefield detonated it and the shock waves induced sympathetic detonation of mines.

In Afghanistan they are using dogs (which my son says are incredible), drones, helicopters, robots and for the command detonated IEDs there are ECM kits on the vehicles.

What is sparsely reported in the western press, primarily because it does not fit in with their agenda, is that the vast bulk of IEDs set are detected and rendered safe, local villagers provide an enormous amount of information. The more IEDs that are discovered and defused the more you get to know about those planting them.

The other odd thing about the western press is the way in which they have hyped up the IED. The IED is in effect a "Booby-Trap" device, and no army or resistance force has ever won a war using them. They are an indication of a force that is being forced into conceeding territory, as the Taleban are currently being forced to do in Helmand at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: bubblyrat
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:20 PM

Capture a few Taleban,and force them to walk ahead of our troops . I believe that this idea was put forward when the Argentinians refused to reveal the location of mines that they had sown in the Falklands.
       After all, the Taleban are not even remotely concerned about fighting according to any known civilised or humane protocols, so why not give them a taste of their own medicine ?? Two birds with one stone ??

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 02:53 PM

General Sherman did that when his men ran into "torpedoes" on the March to the Sea -- had the Confederate captive walk in front. No more were used.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 09:49 PM

ZEUS-HLONS (HMMWV Laser Ordnance Neutralization System)

The HLONS (HMMWV Laser Ordnance Neutralization System), commonly known as ZEUS, is a solid-state laser weapon which is used by the U.S. military in order to neutralize surface land mines and unexploded ordnance (UXO). The ZEUS-HLONS system was a co-operative effort between SPARTA, Inc. and NAVEODTECHDIV (Naval Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technology Division) to demonstrate that a moderate-power commercial solid state laser (SSL) and beam control system could be integrated onto a Humvee (HMMWV) and used to clear surface mines, improvised explosive devices (IEDs), or unexploded ordnance (UXO) from supply routes and minefields.

It has demonstrated the capability to engage targets from 25 to 300 meters away, as long as they are in line of sight. The Zeus system can be fired up to 2,000 times a day.

Uses a 10 KW laser... :) Flash Gordon Rules!

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 10:32 PM

I'd like a 100 kw laser...please?

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 11:00 PM

Boeing Laser Avenger system: Oct 2007 - Boeing conducted a series of tests at Redstone Arsenal in Alabama with a 1-kw laser mounted on the back of a converted anti-aircraft Humvee. Shooting an invisible beam just a few centimeters in diameter and 20 times hotter than an electric stovetop, the laser burned a hole through the casing of artillery and mortar rounds, detonating them more or less instantly.

Subject: RE: BS: Bomb detection
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Feb 10 - 11:01 PM

Well, if you like all that stuff...

Directed-energy weapon