BS: The Republicans (US)

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 10:00 PM

By the way, TIA cut and pasted her "no wiggle room" from a blog
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2748703/posts

Did she look at the actual facts?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 19 Jul 11 - 10:36 PM

Wrong.
On several counts.
Follow the links to the actual data.
Nahh. Never mind. Take another chug of the Kool Aid instead.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Max
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 12:07 AM

Wow. So this is what BS threads are like? Never actually looked at one.

Sorry to interrupt this lovely highbrow intellectualism folks, but just wanted to let you know about this really weird error we've been getting lately.

Adds (provocateur) to a person's username, logs them out and won't let them log back in to that membership until they validate that the email address they used when they created their member profile is actually valid.

Strangest thing...

Well goodnight gang. Hope the weird error doesn't get you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:08 AM

Tia:

The same no wiggle room. The Republicans did it words you posted have3 been cut and pasted in several places on the net.

I asked you if you followed the links to the actual data like you told me to do.

I did and reported what I found. Did you do the same or do you just tell people to do things that you do not do?

Did you follow my links to the actual data? I did not cut and paste them. I found them myself.

Your comment on Koolaid is a rhetorical device that does not prove or disprove anything except a propensity to use rhetoric as a substitute for logic.

All I am asking for is mutual respect and discussion of the actual facts, not personal attacks and rhetoric.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:47 AM

discussion of the actual facts

Sawz, you wouldn't know an "actual fact"[as opposed to a false fact?] were it to rise up on its hind legs and bite you on the arse.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 08:51 PM

Garbage in = garbage out = Sawz...

Normal... Just another day...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 01:10 PM

"But, Bobert, them folks ain't got nuthin'... Shoot, if ya gave 'um anythin' then they'd just get drunk on it 'cause that's all that niggas know how to do with anything that the gov'ment sends 'um"

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:27 PM

"actual fact"[as opposed to a false fact?]

Please provide an example instead of your constant rhetoric, logical fallacies ad hominem attacks.

You do have some fact to present don't you?

About that remark above, it was Bobert talking to himself.

Normal... Just another day...

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:30 PM

When Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) gave her inaugural address as speaker of the House in 2007, she vowed there would be "no new deficit spending". Since that day, the national debt has increased by $5 trillion, according to the U.S. Treasury Department.

"After years of historic deficits, this 110th Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: Pay as you go, no new deficit spending, Pelosi said in her speech from the speaker's podium. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt."

Pelosi has served as speaker in the 110th and 111th Congresses.

At the close of business on Jan. 4, 2007, Pelosi's first day as speaker, the national debt was $8,670,596,242,973.04 (8.67 trillion), according to the Bureau of the Public Debt, a division of the U.S. Treasury Department. At the close of business on Oct. 22, it stood at $13,667,983,325,978.31 (13.67 trillion), an increase of 4,997,387,083,005.27 (or approximately $5 trillion).

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:47 AM

"actual fact"[as opposed to a false fact?] Please provide an example....

And the point of trying to reach a reasoned accommodation with a crazy person would be what, exactly?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM

Bush's last annual budget deficit was for 2009 which was in place when Obama was inaugurated came in at...

...$1.4T

Obama's first annual budget deficit for 2010 came in at...

...$1.3T

WTF???

Obama actually cut $100B in annual budget deficits with his first budget??? Say it ain't so... I mean, horrors... I mean, that ain't what the right wing bloggers are sayin'... No, they aren't... They skip right on past the inconvenient truths, twist on the numbers and go right back to "accumulated national debt" because they are trying to put the 94 cents on the dollar of national debt that Bush handed off to Obama squarely on Obama... A lot of those 94 cents on the dollar were for Bush's wars and Bush's tax cuts...

In other words, the right wing doesn't want people to know the truth...

In other words, they are being completely dishonest...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 09:02 AM

Sawzaw,

Here is most of the new spending.

"I am convinced that this bold approach will cost American families far less than the alternative — a continuing series of financial institution failures and frozen credit markets unable to fund economic expansion," Paulson's bailout

Also two wars the Bush did not count in his budget.

Also the Stimulus which was a response to Mr Paulson's and Mr Bush's failures.

Also the deficit has grown since 2008 in no small part due to decreased revenue due to the recession. In fact, you said that deficit went up, but other than the bailouts and the stimulus, I can think of no new spending.

I can think of nothing on a par with the Republicans expansion of medicare entitlements or their reckless decreases in marginal tax rates.

It would have been nice if Mrs Pelosi had been able to keep her promise. But when The Republicans caught the house on fire, the Democrats had to try to but the fire out.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:55 PM

Exactly, JtS... The Repubs and Bush had themselves a big ol' spending spree and left the bills for Obama to pay and now are trying to twist history into their usual mythology and pin the bills themselves on Obama??? But this is all the Repubs have left... They nearly collapsed the economy with their dumb-headedness so they just invent and reinvent new stories and use their massive media ownership and $$$ advantage to try to ram these new stories into folks heads... Doesn't change the fact that these stories are fictional...

94 cents of every national debt dollar was inherited by Obama... Bills that Bush and Clinton and Daddy Bush and Reagan ran up before Obama was inaugurated... Actually, it's closer to 95 cents but who is counting... The Repubs certainly aren't...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: saulgoldie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:06 PM

Republicans insist that government doesn't work. Then they get elected and set about to prove it. If they can cripple the government, then it can't deliver any of those nice little social programs and regulation that most people say they want. Result: return to the robber baron days of royalty and poor masses.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:11 PM

Voting for Republicans is like putting arsonists in the fire department.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:57 PM

". . . return to the robber baron days of royalty and poor masses."

Right! That becomes increasingly evident if one is paying attention. I tend to think that the ultimate goal is not only to tear up the Constitution, but to set fire to the Magna Carta as well.

All the way back to the feudal system!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 05:22 PM

"big ol' spending spree" Like $3+ million turtle tunnels? Like treadmills for shrimp?

That $787 Billion ARRA was going to fix the economy as it was after whatever spending from the previous administration that the Democrats voted for but want to deny. It was going to keep unemployment below 9%
The CBO Congressional Budget Office said that in the absence of a stimulus plan, the unemployment rate would rise above 9 percent.

The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan report from Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president's Council of Economic Advisers, and Jared Bernstein, the vice president's top economic adviser projected that the stimulus plan proposed by Obama would create between three and four million jobs by the end of 2010.

ESTIMATES OF JOB CREATION FROM THE
AMERICAN RECOVERY AND REINVESTMENT ACT OF 2009

As of the 4th Quarter of
2009 1.5 million
2010 3.5 million
2011 1.7 million
2012 0.3 million

Average for the Year
2009 0.7 million
2010 3.0 million
2011 2.5 million
2012 0.7 million

Gee, what happened?

Another $410 Billion Omnibus spending bill didn't fix anything either.

So now what?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 02:01 AM

"and now are trying to twist history into their usual mythology and pin the bills themselves on Obama???"

Somebody is trying to twist the fact that Democrats, since they gained the Majority in the 2006 election, either voted for or didn't vote against all of the bills that increased the national deficit including raising the debt ceiling and blame it on Republicans who had the minority.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 02:34 AM

"new spending...Paulson's bailout"

One of these days a huge lightbulb is going to light up in the heads of the people that characterize TARP as spending will realize that Tarp money was not spent but loaned out to be paid back with interest. It was written into the legislation

Understanding TARP

For instance Wells Fargo got $25 Billion and paid it back plus $1.4 billion interest.

JP Morgan got $25 Billion and paid it back plus $1.7 billion interest.

Not all of it has been paid back yet but every time some of it is paid back the Obama administration hoots about how They have heroically gotten the money back for the American people when in actuality it has to be repaid by law.

In the legislation says the the TARP money loaned plus the interest must go into back into the treasury.

Does it go there? Or does it go into actual real spending, money that will never be returned to the treasury, on programs like cash for clunkers?

Why would it not be returned to the treasury? Because that way it goes on President Bush's tab as deficit spending by the Bush administration.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:37 AM

Yeah Sawzaw? How much has been returned by AIG? Or Freddy and Fannie?

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:11 PM

Jack, putting arsonists in the fire department
is good for jobs.


Sawz has to ignore all the bills that this Republican COngress has passed or even proposed this session.

Why?
Because there is not one job creation bill. In fact there are 3 job destorying bills. Lots of abortion bills, but no jobs.

Sure if things/economy stay bad or even get worse, a Republican President could say after 3 years, "See how much better things are now?" THis is the LImbaugh declaration.

Yes even a default is an opportunity for the rich. One could buy gold now, wait until the default scare pushes it up 10% or more and if normalcy resumes immediately sell. Default would cause massive inflation but for those 400 guys who own more than bottom 90%, they would become relatively richer. Too bad for those 401K peons.

Exculpatory facts do not penetrate the skulls of the American public.
What does is the man who yells LIAR, or a LImbaugh pronouncment or the huge giant unbeliable lie. Truth is but a victim. For these reasons the Republicans are going 'all in' in order to try to blame Obama for the ********** default.

LIE HARD,
staring the House Republicans, Produced by Right wing think Tanks, Owned by Koch and Friends. A mighty 400 production.

Example: Obama has no plan, Obama has not led, Obama should shut up and let COngress work, Obama should stay off TV, Obama is missing in action, Obama will cut your S Security despite having the money, Obama lies. Obama can not have an adult conversation, Obama veto sent us into default, Obama switched the goal posts, STOP ALL SPENDING TO SAVE THE ECOMOMY AND STOP TAXING JOB CREATORS.


jEEZ, WHEN NO ONE SPENDS, it is the definition of a recession.





but it is not working this time. 71% think the Republicans are pushing us into default.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:16 PM

Regarding Republicans, The unfavorable poll stands at 69%
The second highest unfavorable rating in 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Sawzaw
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:29 PM

Republicans warned about Freddy and Fannie and Democrats attacked them saying there was nothing wrong with them.

So what about them do you want to know?

I never said all of the Tarp Money was paid back. I said it was not spending.

LA Times

The Treasury Department has recovered 70% of the money distributed under the $700-billion bailout fund after American International Group paid back $6.9 billion of the money it owed.

AIG made the repayment Tuesday after selling its holdings in MetLife last week. About $59 billion in Troubled Asset Relief Program money still is invested in AIG.

AIG received about $125 billion in a complex, multi-step bailout from the Treasury and Federal Reserve starting in the fall of 2008. The government owns 92% of AIG after a stock-conversion deal completed in January that was part of an effort to recapitalize the insurance company and unwind the federal stake.

The Fed has about $39 billion invested in AIG. The Congressional Budget Office estimated in November that the government would lose $14 billion on the AIG bailout. But after the stock-conversion deal and a rise in AIG's stock price, the Fed and the Treasury Department have said they did not expect to lose any money.

AIG's repayment brings to $287 billion the total TARP money recovered, the Treasury Department said. Although Congress put $700 billion into the fund, the department disbursed only $411 billion.

We're optimistic that as we continue to wind down TARP, our temporary investments in private companies will ultimately result in little or no cost to taxpayers taken as a whole, said Tim Massad, the Treasury official who oversees TARP.

The Congressional Budget Office estimated in November that TARP would lose $25 billion. The White House has estimated a $48-billion loss. But with potential profit from the AIG stock, which will be sold over time, the projected loss drops to $28 billion.

For taxpayers to break even on the 1.655 billion shares of AIG common stock they now own, they would need a price of $28.72 a share. Tuesday's closing price for AIG stock was $37.31.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 01:39 PM

Republicans warned about Freddy and Fannie.

Some Republicans did. So did some Democrats.
Most Republicans voted for their policies and implied guarantee, warnings or not.

Notwithstanding that. Their bailout dwarfs that of the regular banks and that was still Paulson's Bailout. Blaming that part of the debt on the Obama is pure fantasy. Likewise AIG.

Subject: RE: BS: The Republicans (US)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 09:03 PM

The current GOP stand is like saying to your wife:"If you don't stop spending o much, I won't pay the mortgage." The National Debt is money we OWE , not money we might or might not spend.