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French naval songs c.1760

GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin 10 Mar 10 - 04:15 PM
Artful Codger 10 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM
Monique 10 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM
Monique 11 Mar 10 - 06:35 AM
GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin 11 Mar 10 - 07:07 AM
Monique 11 Mar 10 - 08:03 AM
bubblyrat 11 Mar 10 - 09:07 AM
Monique 11 Mar 10 - 09:49 AM
Les from Hull 11 Mar 10 - 11:54 AM
Les from Hull 11 Mar 10 - 06:31 PM
EnglishFolkfan 11 Mar 10 - 07:34 PM
CET 11 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM
CET 11 Mar 10 - 09:13 PM
Hrothgar 11 Mar 10 - 09:52 PM
Artful Codger 11 Mar 10 - 11:15 PM
Monique 12 Mar 10 - 03:55 AM
GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin 17 Mar 10 - 05:17 AM
katlaughing 14 Nov 10 - 03:39 PM
Monique 14 Nov 10 - 05:23 PM
GUEST,Tom Bliss 14 Nov 10 - 05:35 PM
katlaughing 14 Nov 10 - 08:42 PM
GUEST,John Moulden 15 Nov 10 - 06:06 AM
GUEST 23 Nov 10 - 08:13 PM
CET 23 Nov 10 - 08:44 PM
Charley Noble 23 Nov 10 - 09:31 PM
Dead Horse 24 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM
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Subject: French naval songs c.1760
From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 04:15 PM

There has recently been the 250th anniversary of a sea battle just off the coast of the Isle of Man.

On 28th February 1760, a squadron of three British Royal Navy vessels under Commander John Elliot beat a squadron of three French vessels under Captain Francois Thurot. The battered French vessels with prisoners were brought into Ramsey Bay on 29th February (leap year!).

I'm doing a talk about the event later this year, and I wanted some music to go with it. In 1759, 'Heart of Oak' was set to music and became so popular that the Royal Navy sang it going into battle, and it's now an official march. From about 1740 there's 'Rule Britannia' and also 'Marri-ed to a Mermai-ed at the Bottom of the Deep Blue Sea'.

I'm a bit stuck for an appropriate French song. I was excited about 'Le 31 du mois d'aout', but it dates from 1800. There's reference to a song about a vessel called the Foudrayant, taking on three British vessels in 1758, which would be ideal, but only a couple of verses are given, and no tune.

If anyone knows of appropriate songs, I'd be very grateful indeed if you were to point me towards websites with lyrics, tunes, recorded versions, etc.

Gura mie eu,

Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Artful Codger
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 07:25 PM

You might try Histoire de la chanson populaire en France (1889) at Google Books. Although it may not provide the songs themselves, it should give you some titles to investigate. It does contain the melodies for a number of songs.

Also:
Chansons populaires du pays de France (1909)

Here's an entire web site of French sea songs: Chansons des marins
Some of the songs come with MP3s. Sadly, historical info looks scarce.

I believe Stan Hugill gave a number of French sea songs in his books, along with their history. But as I got the books from the library, I can't easily check which ones might suit.

Haven't checked on dates, but "(Il était) un petit navire" may be a possibility, since it gave rise to some British and American sea songs, like Thackeray's "Little Billee". Hunting up an interesting tune for it may be a challenge, though, as I recall from my earlier efforts.

Check out Les Cap-Horniers. A listing of their repertoire may be found here, with brief descriptive notes.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Monique
Date: 10 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM

Combat de la Danaé Lyrics and mp3 sample.
The song "La prise du Foudroyant" is on "Cahiers de chants de marins" #5 from Le Chasse-Marée, page 21 and there are 12 verses and a score but I couldn't find anything online.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Monique
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 06:35 AM

LA PRISE DU FOUDROYANT

Nous sommes partis de Toulon
Trois grands navires de la nation,
C'était pour s'en aller croiser
Sur les côtes d'Espagne.
À Lisbonne, nous avons mouillé
En attendant l'escadre.

Mais quand l'escadre est arrivée,
A bien fallu appareiller,
Faut mettre Foudroyant au vent,
Grand' voile et la misaine.
C'est pour aller joindre faction,
Mouiller à Carthagène.

Toute la journée marchons grand train
En poursuivant notre chemin,
Le temps n'a pas voulu changer,
La tempête et l'orage
Nous ont fort bien déportés
Cinquante lieues au large.

Le lendemain au point du jour
Nous vîmes venir tout droit sur nous
Trois grands navires, vaisseaux anglais,
Filant comme la foudre
Et qui en un instant croyaient
Nous réduire en poudre.

Nous les avons bien repérés
Sur nos basses voiles carguées,
Ils ont pas voulu commencer,
La chose est surprenante.
Sont nos canons de 36
Qu'ont commencé la danse.

Ils ont tiré un coup de canon
Sur notre mât d'artimon,
Dessus le pont, tout est tombé,
Les voiles et les cordages,
La grande vergue et les huniers,
Criblés par la mitraille.

Notre combat a bien duré
Trois jours et trois nuits sans cesser,
On voyait les boulets rouler
D'un bâtiment à l'autre.
Jamais on n'avait vu combat
En rien semblable au nôtre.

Pour finir notre affliction,
Nous vîmes venir comme des lions
Douze gros vaisseaux anglais
Venant tout en furie.
Ils ont lâché dessus mon bord
Toutes leurs batteries.

Et quand nous fûmes démâtés,
A bien fallu se résigner :
-Allons garçons, faut amener
Pavillon d'assistance,
Car nous sommes bien éloignés
De la terre de France.

Et quand le pavillon amené,
À bord il vint un officier,
C'était de la part des Anglais,
Faisant grande révérence,
En disant : -Messieurs les Français,
Ne faites point de résistance.

-Ah oui ! ah oui ! nous le savons
Car c'est avant que nous nous rendions,
Auriez-vous la peine d'entrer,
D'entrer dans la chambre.
Vous parlerez à notre général
Qui y est pour vous entendre.

Le capitaine s'est écrié :
-Que l'on m'apporte mon porte-voix,
Que l'on m'apporte mon porte-voix,
Que j' publie la sentence.
Or adieu donc, beau Foudroyant
Tu n'es plus pour la France.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 07:07 AM

Thank you both very much for the information.   

I'll check out the score for La prise de Foudroyant, and I hope to be able to either get a recording or someone to sing at least some of it on the night.

The battle off the Isle of Man was 28th February 1760, and coincidentally Le Foudrayant was captured on 28th February 1758, after a three-day battle, subsequently being refitted as HMS Foudrayant.

Gura mie mooar eu - Merci bien!

Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Monique
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 08:03 AM

On "Les chants de marins", there's no time signature, it's in G-major and the notes are (1/8th = no mention, 1/4 =2, dotted 1/4 =3, underscore between the notes = slur)
B, E F G G G G G_F2 A G F E2 D E F G_F2 B, E F G F G A B3 B A G F G A_G F2 B, E F G A G E E_D2 E F A G F G_F E2.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: bubblyrat
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 09:07 AM

Was that the same Foudroyant that was,for many years,lying moored in Portsmouth harbour,and was regarded as being the oldest wooden "ship of the line" still afloat ?? If so,then a testament to French ship-building prowess,sadly (for them) not matched by their gunnery skills.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Monique
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 09:49 AM

Guys, in "Chants de marins, à la découverte d'une tradition vivante" from "Le chasse-marée" Editions they say that the name of the ship "Le Flamboyant" is also found as "Foudrion" and with this "foudrion" it's easier to find info: YouTube-Le combat du Foudrion. In the book mentioned above the tune is said to have been recorded in 1953 from Lévi Le Bouthillier in Haut Saint Simon (New Brunswick).
Lyrics and score, another one, another tune to listen to.
In the book mentioned above they say that only 2 versions have been noted down in France vs 40 odd in Canada.

Bubblyrat, it seems that not (Wiki article). Some French ships were called "Foudroyant" (the song is about the 6th) and so were some English ships too as a commemoration of the fact of arms (so they say in this last article in French)


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 11:54 AM

Bubbyrat - that Foudroyant one was built in Plymouth Dockyard, launched in 1798 and wrecked at Blackpool in 1897. The ex-French prize Foudroyant (captured in the Mediterranean in 1758) was broken up in 1787.

It was not unusual to name a ship after a previously captured one. The Americans built a 'Macedonian' named for the one they captured from the British but was not worth keeping, and in turn the British built an HMS President as a copy of the one captured from the Americans in 1815.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Les from Hull
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 06:31 PM

Actually Trincomalee was named Foudroyant for many years, taking the name after that one was lost in 1897. She is now back to being Trincomalee. Sorry I got confused. It's an age thing.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: EnglishFolkfan
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 07:34 PM

Les I was initially confused as to which Foudroyant it was! Thought about posting this historical info earlier but didn't consider it relevant but may be of interest to someone:

Royal Navy Museum:

HMS Foudroyant and HMS Trincomalee

HMS Trincomalee (ex 2nd Foudroyant) Now restored in Hartlepool where she remains. Lived there when they finished HMS Warrior restoration & she went to Portsmouth but the Borough Council bought this hulk to keep the apprentices & crafts people in work, is 2nd oldest ship of her type in the World. Was tremendous success imo as led to the creation of the marina & museums + Tall Ships restoration centre.

HMS Trincomalee 1817

also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trincomalee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Foudroyant_(1798) named for the one in the song.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: CET
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 09:12 PM

The Quebec group Serre L'Ecoute do a brilliant version of Le Foudrion.

Yet I try to follow the directions for making a blue clicky and fail miserably.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: CET
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 09:13 PM

You can get Serre L'Ecoute's CDs through CAMSCO music.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Hrothgar
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 09:52 PM

I wonder how many French naval songs are about victories?

... beacause if they only have them about victories, that might explain why they're harder to find.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Artful Codger
Date: 11 Mar 10 - 11:15 PM

Here is an ABC of the music in Cahiers de chants de marins, which I prepared from Monique's notation above and a scan of the score which she sent me.

X:1
T:La Prise du Foudroyant
S:Cahier de chants de marins, #5, p. 21, from Le Chasse-Mar\'ee
N:From the singing of L\'evi Le Houthillier, Haut Siant Simon, New Brunswick, 1953
% Fermatas (H) added by the ABC transcriber; they do not appear in the original score.
% The tempo marking is the transcriber's rough guess.
M:none
L:1/8
Q:1/4=80
K:G
B, E F G G G G (G HF2) A G F E2 D E F (G HF2)
w: Nous som-mes par-tis de Tou-lon_ Trois grand na-vires de la na-tion._
B, E F G F G A HB3 B A G F G (A G) HF2
w: C'\'e-tait pour s'en al-ler croi-ser Sur les c\^o-tes d'Es-pa--gne.
B, E F G A G E (E HD2) E F A G F (G F) HE2 |]
w: \`A Lis-bonn' nous a-vons mouil-l\'e._ Et at-ten-dent l'es-ca--dre.

You can plug it into Concertina.net's Tune-o-Tron to produce dots or a MIDI.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Monique
Date: 12 Mar 10 - 03:55 AM

Thanks Artful!
For those interested in getting the French shanties songbooks "Cahiers de chants de marins" formerly published by Le Chasse-marée, they are now available at Éditions Glénat


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 17 Mar 10 - 05:17 AM

Haven't had a chance to check for a few days, and lo! - there's a wealth of knowledge out there in Mudcat land.

But we all know that already, which is why we're so appreciative of it!


Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:39 PM

I seem to be following around and finding wonderful links, today. My Rog and I are really enjoying listening to Maree De Paradise (sorry for the lack of diacritical marks.) Thanks!


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Monique
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:23 PM

I've just come across the Dutch shanty choir De Batraven where you can listen to lots of shanties. I arrived there through Chants de marins where you can listen to the very same songs. They say the recordings come directly from the singers' sites so maybe some links don't work. On the links section of this blog you can find links to some groups' sites (chants de marins, chants de mer, groupes), to repertoires (chants de mer, répertoires)...


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:35 PM

Goodness - this is timely!

I'm only researching mid 18th C French naval songs as we speak. Thanks for the info.

Tom


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:42 PM

Great link, Monique! Mudcat at its best!


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 06:06 AM

A little earlier than his failure off the Isle of Man, Thurot and his ships captured Carrickfergus in Co Antrim. Accounts, and songs about this are in Thomas Crofton Croker Popular songs illustrative of the French Invasions of Ireland (Parts 1 and 2) 1 published by the Percy Society in February 1845 and November 1846. Part One is Thurot's memoir, Part two deals with the capture.


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:13 PM

I WANT ENGLISH PLEASE!!!


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: CET
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:44 PM

Discuss: What do you find most remarkable about the anonymous Guest's post?

a) His stupidity in not noticing that this is a thread about French naval songs; or

b) The depth to which he has his head inserted in his own anal orifice.

Edmund


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:31 PM

Edmund-

It's hard to be patient with apparently rude guests. One never really knows if they are simply brash or ignorant of how this forum can function. Maybe this "Guest" in question would be bold enough to clarify.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: French naval songs c.1760
From: Dead Horse
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:03 PM

Quote: Discuss: What do you find most remarkable about the anonymous Guest's post?
That the moron actually managed to spell it all correctly ?


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