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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:07 AM Thread drift: EB, my friend was Elmar Lanczos. His father was Cornelius Lanczos. [PHOTO] But I would be very surprised if Cornelius Lanczos and Leó Szilárd were not acquainted. [BRIEF BIOGRAPHY] The bio doesn't say anything about his getting his family out of Hungary, but I got the story—as well as he could remember it, because he was pretty young when it happened—from Elmar. I met Dr. Lanczos on two occasions. Rather small in physical stature (maybe 5'6" or so), he was still very impressive. He looked like a falcon. And I had the impression that his brain emitted a 60-cycle hum! Elmar told me that in Hungary, the name is pronounced "LAHN-tsosh." But to make it a bit easier on English speakers, they now pronounced it "LAHN-choss" ("choss" with a long "o"). Elmar was an important part of the folk music scene in Seattle in the late Fifties and on. He couldn't sing for sour applesauce, but he had no particular ambitions along that line. He owned a house north of the University of Washington, and on weekends, it was almost always fine with him for folk song enthusiasts to gather in his living room and sing until the wee small hours of the morning. He also had a monumental record collection of folk music, which he was willing to lend to various singers to learn songs from (provided he knew they would handle the records carefully). He was a writer, and the hoots in his living room came to a halt for a year or two when he went to studied at Trinity College in Dublin, but resumed when he returned. He died a few years ago from bone cancer. He left two sons: Andrew, who lived in England for awhile and now lives in Tel Aviv; and Ely, who lives in Seattle. His widow, Alice, is a very good friend of Barbara's and mine, and we get together often. A picture of Cornelius Lanczos sits on Alice's mantelpiece. People like Elmar Lanczos are the salt of the earth. Don Firth P. S. Elmar recounted an incident about his father. Dr. Lanczos was to deliver a lecture in a college auditorium, and when he walked out before the crowd of scientists and students, someone handed him a lavalier microphone that hung on a ribbon around the neck. Dr. Lanczos fumbled with it a bit and couldn't figure out how to put it on. So the fellow who handed it to him came out and helped him with it. The mic was on, and Dr. Lanczos was heard—loud and clear—to say to the fellow helping him with the mic, "I'm only a theoretical physicist." Big roar of laughter! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 26 Mar 10 - 02:47 AM I get it, Conrad. You think Pete and the Smothers Bros. should have invited pro war, pro segregation, anti-union, singers onto their shows, maybe like country music groups in the Sixties invited pro-integration singers into The Grand Old Opry or like their successors in 2003 and 2004 welcomed The Dixie Chicks? Or maybe like the Tea Party folkies welcome Barney Frank and Dennis Kucinich to their shindigs. I'll bet you believe that THE MEDIA has a liberal bias, too, don't you? Charles |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: EBarnacle Date: 26 Mar 10 - 07:43 AM Don, Very impressive. As a statistician, I was familiar with Tukey's work. I did not know that Lanczos had gotten there first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:46 AM If people like seeger and smothers suggest that everyone get together and hold hands they should do it. Seems like they only wanted to hold hands with themselves. You can't have unity or even seriously think about it until the other side is invited to the party. No they don't have to do it but if it turns out they never invited the other side well then.....called monopoly.....and it shows that they were not entirely fair with their out front statements about world peace unity, cultural understanding. Yes- world peace on their terms. Don't ya think that puts them on exactly the same level as george W Bush and nixon. Remember all politicos tell you that they are right and good patriots etc. But to be fair with the other side is another thing. Then they went and branded the entire folk community as lefty hippy as well.. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:18 AM "Then they went and branded the entire folk community as lefty hippy as well" The English language can be such a trial. In particular, please define the word "they" above. In your current post, you seem to use this word to mean "people like seeger and smothers", "all politicos" and the final reference, unlabelled, above. Who did this "branding"? What does a "left hippy" look like in this day and age? And of course the ultimate question on this forum: What is the entire folk community? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: frogprince Date: 26 Mar 10 - 10:31 AM I love the concept(if concept is an applicable word) of folk singers promoting "world peace on their terms". I was finishing college in Arkansas during the later days of the Vietnam "Police Action". A few students took part in an anti-war march; there was at least one sign that said "Pray for Peace"; A larger number of students countered with a pro-war demonstration; there was at least one sign that said "Pray for Peace, but Like an American". Forty years later, I can still only speculate as to exactly what in hell that was supposed to mean. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 26 Mar 10 - 11:24 AM yes they means the lefties etc...self described as such. lefty hippy is still a useful term- and those described would not mind you using it about them. I am called a hippy frequently although I have not much to do with the definition. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 26 Mar 10 - 12:41 PM "You can't have unity or even seriously think about it until the other side is invited to the party. No they don't have to do it but if it turns out they never invited the other side well then.....called monopoly.....and it shows that they were not entirely fair with their out front statements about world peace unity, cultural understanding." You continue to skirt reality and suggest a dream world wear everyone sings Kumbayah, flowers are always blooming, everyone is healthy, and the sun always shines. No one in their right mind would expect an artist to implement to their art and forum as you are suggesting, the idea is that there should be multiple forums to allow all viewpoints to be shared. That my friend, is the reality everyone else is working for. Your claim about their stance on what they should do to prove their belief in unity is about as sound as the line in Monty Python that "if she weighs less than a duck, she is not a witch." In every conflict there are two sides and the solution is both sides coming to resolution. Your methods for achieving resolution would only work if both sides operated under the same terms, but we both know that was not the reality. The Smothers Brothers and Seeger were trying to find a forum that was denied to them. It also seems that you are in denial of that FACT as well, Conrad. They do work toward reaching compromise and achieving the unity that you describe, but compromise does not equate to capitulation of the ideals for which they are fighting. Sorry Conrad, you keep skirting around the issue and you are still refusing to answer questions posed to you. Rhetoric does not win arguements. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: GUEST Date: 26 Mar 10 - 02:59 PM I'm trying to imagine Pete Seeger calling himself a lefty hippy...and I can't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 26 Mar 10 - 03:02 PM Oops, that was me imagining Pete. ;) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: olddude Date: 26 Mar 10 - 03:54 PM - Sunny Side Of Life - There's a dark and a troubled side of life There's a bright and a sunny side, too Though we meet with the darkness and strife The sunny side we also may view. Keep on the sunny side always on the sunny side Keep on the sunny side of life It will help us every day it will brighten all the way If we keep on the sunny side of life. The storm and its fury broke today Brushing hopes that we've cherished so dear Cloud and storm will in time pass away The sun again will shine bright and clear. Let us breathe with a song of hope each day Though the moments be cloudy or fair Let us trust in our Saviour away He keepeth everyone in his care. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: bseed(charleskratz) Date: 26 Mar 10 - 05:55 PM Spaw, I just ran across this thread last night--and I thought your first post to it was over the top even for you. Then as I continued to read *"#1 PISSANT*'s continued lame-ass restatements of his original post I realized that--as usual, behind your masque of moronity, you were dead on again. Charles (seed) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 26 Mar 10 - 07:38 PM Kumbayah= seeger did sing that but when you sing it only with your own tribe then what good is it? Seeger called himself a lefty several times in the fore mentioned documentary hippy maybe not....but close. cant remember what questions I have not answered refresh the brain cells. Busy with art today attached a turbine fan to a 12 food tall tree stump branch- on the other side hangs a tuba spinning in the wind.... Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:08 PM ::::waving little fan over both of Conrad's brain cells...have a cup of chamomile tea::: What are some fascist or at least very right-wing folk songs of the 1940-1970 period? What does a lefty hippy look like today? Do you think THE MEDIA is biased? What right-wing event featured left-wing personalities on their stage? How much sugar should be in a good cornbread recipe? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:13 PM Conrad, the "lefty hippie folk singer" is a stereotype that never really existed, except in the minds of people who hadn't a clue as to what was really going on in the world. I was there, and I know. True, there were the so-called "flower children," and the "If you go to San Francisco, be sure to wear some flowers in your hair" things, but this didn't really last all that long, and it was not especially an aspect of the folk music revival. And Pete Seeger and the Smothers Brothers didn't have anything to do with that—except in the simple minds of people who like to stuff several disparate factors that they feel characterize an era into one sack, so they can reduce them to proportions that they can comprehend. I was (am) a singer of folk songs. I got interested in folk music a couple of years before you were born, and by the time you were born, I was starting to get paid for singing engagements. Many of these were regular, long-term engagements in clubs and coffeehouses. Ah, coffeehouses! Those infamous hippie hangouts! Well, Conrad, let me clue you in. Most of the people I saw in coffeehouses were university students. They tended to dress casually, but not sloppily. Most of them (including me and the other singers) got regular haircuts and were clean-shaven. In some of the coffeehouses, especially late in the evening, it was not unusual to see a few patrons there wearing tuxedos and formal gowns. They were dropping in after attending an opera, a symphony, or a ballet. Not exactly the stereotyped "lefty hippie folkie" hangouts that you, and a lot of other people who were never actually there, are picturing in your mind. No, Conrad, the image you have of that era bears very little relationship to what was actually going on at the time. We weren't all standing around holding hands, dancing the hora, and singing "Kumbaya," and "Michael, Row the Boat Ashore." Nor were we all singing labor songs and anti-war songs. If you want to get an idea of the kind of songs that were being sung, take a look at books like Carl Sandburg's American Songbag or Lomax's Folk Song U. S. A. or Cecil Sharp's English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians. Or listen to the early records of Burl Ives, Susan Reed, Richard Dyer-Bennet, Ed McCurdy, Cynthia Gooding, and Joan Baez (when she was singing ballads). Later, some of the younger singers were learning songs from records by The Kingston Trio, Peter Paul and Mary, and the more commercial folk groups. Remember, I was there, saw it, heard it, participated in it. And as I have said several times here, I have heard Pete Seeger live, in concert, several times, and out of, maybe, thirty or more songs, some three or four at most might be what one would call "songs of social protest." And most often those would be historical in nature (pre-Civil War anti-slavery song or a union organizing song from the 1920s or 1930s). And I remember watching the Smothers Brothers television show. I don't recall them doing much, if any, in the way of political material. I do recall the brouhaha over CBS trying to censor Pete Seeger's singing of "Waste Deep in the Big Muddy," which your whole thesis seems to be based on. You're tilting at windmills, Conrad. And remember, the Knight of the Rueful Countenance, the original tilter at windmills, was delusional. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:20 PM Hey, Bettynh, you know what a lefty hippy looks like today? He or she looks like middle or upper management and works for Microsoft! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:31 PM LOL Don! Another thing we haven't mentioned is the reason all those guys were in school and hanging around coffee houses in 1968. The draft. Young men of that era were in school, in jail, underground, or in the armed forces. The Tet offensive had just happened. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: catspaw49 Date: 26 Mar 10 - 08:34 PM Wow....A tuba in a tree with a fan blowing on it. That's real art. Maybe you could hang a trumpet in a boxwood with a personal fan blowing on it and you'd have Bonsai representation as well! Yeah....Just like those piece of shit hulks you cover in tin cans and leftover paint you call artcars. That takes a real genius........Or those horn coats.....sewing a baritone horn or something into a coat....I am in aw...........................Like aw hell or aw shit or aw ain't this trash real fuckin stupid? Seriously Man, that "art" you do is just some really dumbass stuff, just ignorant as all hell. But I guess you're happy huh? I mean if ignorance is bliss, you are probably fuckin' orgasmic! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 27 Mar 10 - 09:25 AM No fan blowing on it- natural wind....nope- boxwoods aren't tall enough yet but some day. Oh well thats 500 in support just this last week and one against. No accounting for taste but it takes all types to sing in the choir. The happyness that comes from my artcars just driving the streets is truly amazing. The horn clothing sounds really wondrous when it plays. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Stringsinger Date: 27 Mar 10 - 07:31 PM The lefty-hippie is a myth as Reagan's welfare queen. The left employed a kind of discipline that hippies ignored. Many on the left emerged as conservatives in their left-ness. This was true of the CPUSA. Conrad, one of the reasons Pete Seeger was so attacked was that he was popular with people of different political persuasions and thus considered dangerous by right-wingers of his time. He could reach out beyond his perceived ideology which was magnified by his detractors for political reasons. Pete never sang to just his own tribe. He reached many people. And guess what, he still does. One of his big fans was Nelson Rockefeller. Conrad, Nixon and Bush were politicians. Pete is an artist/performer/songwriter. He transcends a narrow ideology that you attribute to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 27 Mar 10 - 08:41 PM dont think so I am convinced that as well as being a great folklorist he is a very calculating politico. He used song better than anyone else imho. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: EBarnacle Date: 27 Mar 10 - 09:08 PM Conrad, go back to my definition of political speech way above. If you have an opinion, you are making a political statement. Do you maintain that all music should be amoral and unopinionated? Booring! The questions you never answered include mine: Can you cite any examples of right wing venues which have included left-wing or even neutral speech? Please be concrete and cite more than one example if you can. After all, everyone should present balanced shows, right? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:08 AM Sorry Conrad, you are coming across as a real hypocrite with your statements about politics and music. You certainly aren't practicing what you expect others to do based on your posts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Mar 10 - 01:08 AM Conrad, I believe Stringsinger knows Pete Seeger personally. You're just guessing, and you're wa-a-a-ay off base. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Stringsinger Date: 28 Mar 10 - 12:41 PM Conrad, you are adding your voice to the growing attack on anything that isn't associated with right-wing politics by your accusations. You claim to be neutral but in fact by your politicizing you are enabling these kinds of attacks. You are beginning to sound like Joe McCarthy. You are generalizing without a real knowledge of the relationship between folk music, the left-wing movement, the Southern reaction, the folk revival in the popular music field because the blanket statements that you are making are simplistic at best and false at worst. If it wasn't for Pete Seeger introducing Earl Scruggs style of banjo playing in New York, the devotees of bluegrass would not have grown so fast. Pete did more to celebrate the Southern banjo styles in the rest of the country than almost anyone except for his late half brother Mike. Pete has never been partisan when it came to American folk music. That idea is just plain wrong. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:41 PM No wrong! When did pete seeger hold hands with anyone he did not agree with. Not that he had to but it would have been the right thing to do. Have him contact me and I will ask the relevant questions and get back. It does need some more research. But when you want to hold hands holding hands with those who agree with you is easy . Seeking out and holding hands on the same stage or same programme now that is achievement. Seeger et. al. seem to get the reputation for uniting people. I don't think so. Uniting them to his own way of thinking is not uniting anything and brainwashing using the only available channel for one point of view is not good. Seeger did many fine things and its a long list. But political bridge building was not one of them although he talked about it. So far no evidence he actually did it himself. But I am no expert. Let the experts find a time when he joined hands with people he disagreed with patched things up and shared the stage equally. Now that is the ethical thing to do. No I dont know where the oppostion was however I did meet a researcher at loc recently who could cite chapter and verse on a few of them. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Art Thieme Date: 28 Mar 10 - 09:50 PM Sadly, a main reason what went down THEN hasn't been taken to and replicated now, is THE DRAFT. --- And that has made all the difference! As far as Peasant is concerned, his main problem seems to be that he is anti-SEMANTIC! Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 28 Mar 10 - 10:15 PM "Seeger et. al. seem to get the reputation for uniting people. I don't think so. Uniting them to his own way of thinking is not uniting anything and brainwashing using the only available channel for one point of view is not good." Do you keep putting your foot in your mouth on purpose? What is with you and hand holding? YOU are the one who seems to be brainwashed with only one available channel for thinking and one point of view. Sorry Conrad, but our version of "uniting" seems to be very different from yours. No one needs to sit down and hold hands with fascists, murders, racists or other thugs to create a better world. The outcome is not to "unite" but rather create a world in which we can hold hands without having to worry that they will take your hand and not give it back. Peace and love does not mean acceptance of what is wrong, it is defeating it. Pete is a fighter who fights the good fight. Can you honestly say you do the same? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Art Thieme Date: 28 Mar 10 - 10:22 PM Ron, Right on!! Art |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: EBarnacle Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:03 AM Enough of responding to this troll. His mind is as closed as his mouth is open. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 29 Mar 10 - 07:07 AM Ron either you are a uniter of the people or one who stays appart. Uniting people who are all the same already is not uniting anything. No you dont have to agree with people to hold their hand or be nice to them. Sorry! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 29 Mar 10 - 09:41 AM "Ron either you are a uniter of the people or one who stays appart. " Conrad, once again, you are wrong. Your definition of "uniting" also needs work. It is not as cut and dry as you are trying to believe. Uniting is not simply agreeing to disagree. Uniting is removing obstacles that prevent people from having the opportunity to unite. Acceptance of an obstacle and allowing it to fester does not unite. Your narrow view of the world is just that - a narrow view. All you have been doing in your posts is proving that your position is hypocritical. If you were truly honest with yourself you would step back and re-read these posts and realize the smarmy tact you have taken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:42 PM Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree is there? You are a step ahead. those with differing opinions need to get together before they can work out compromises. So first you agree to disagree then you modify each other's beliefs so that compromise can be reached. Seeger and the leftys just sung with and to people they agreed with-their view or the highway. Ethnocentric-narrow.....pie in the sky utopia- end war- peace now= love everyone.....(except I guess people you disagree with) These are good good goals however you can not operationalize them without taking first step of inclusion, sharing the media, the stage, the dance. Conrad |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: frogprince Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:46 PM How can all you liberal fascists be so blind as not to see the obvious merits of itchymickey's argument. For cryin' out loud, most folk performance has been blatently biased for decades, at least. Bob Dylan never invited anyone to come up and sing a song favorable to the man who caned Hatty Carol. The Chad Mitchell Trio mocked both the KKK and John Birch Society outright, and never invited anyone onstage to sing anything favorable to either group. Tom Paxton has yet to invite anyone onstage to sing a song from the viewpoint that Tinky Winky the Tellatubby is, in fact, designed to convert young people to homosexuality. But, in comparison: You'll never go to a Southern Gospel convention, without hearing someone who has been invited to sing material with an atheistic slant. You'll never hear Hank Williams Jr., or Toby Keith, perform, without inviting up someone to sing something with a leftist message. The whole situation is indefensible!!!!!!!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:47 PM "These are good good goals however you can not operationalize them without taking first step of inclusion, sharing the media, the stage, the dance." You are a step behind. The first step was having Seeger and the Smothers GET a stage to share their opinions - they were the ones who were excluded from the media, stage and dance. There were not JUST singing to those who agreed with their view. It just isn't true that that they were preaching to the choir. Even if they were, that choir deserves a forum too. You keep failing to recognize that one basic FACT. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 29 Mar 10 - 12:57 PM EB, he's good practice. I can't argue coherently about health care or business practices, but Conrad uses some of the same techniques as those I feel are wrong about those issues. So, Conrad, you said, "Seeger did many fine things and its a long list." Let's hear your list. "When did pete seeger hold hands with anyone he did not agree with" Does shaking the hand of the man who came to kill you count? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Don Firth Date: 29 Mar 10 - 03:32 PM Hold hands with fascists? I've heard this story a number of times, but to make sure I had it right, I looked it up in a little book entitled The Power of Stupidity. A scorpion wants to cross a river, but it can't swim. It asks a frog for help. The frog is apprehensive, but the scorpion promises, "I won't sting you. If I did, I would drown!" So the frog takes the scorpion on his back and ferries him across the river. When they reach the other bank, before he gets off the frog's back, the scorpion stings the frog.Look at history. Look at the nature of fascism. Then, think about the frog and the scorpion. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 30 Mar 10 - 07:26 PM Only if they keep their hands to themselves and are peaceful. No one is advocating putting up with any violence. Surely singing songs is not harmful. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Mar 10 - 06:14 AM But Conrad......Isn't that the point you're trying to make? You're saying singing is harmful as it can influence someone in one direction so the other side needs equal time? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 31 Mar 10 - 06:29 AM When one monopolizes the stages and media it is not good but songs themselves are harmless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: catspaw49 Date: 31 Mar 10 - 07:49 AM Do you honestly believe that? Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 31 Mar 10 - 10:05 AM I hardly think the Smothers and Seeger "monopolized" the stage and media - the opposite is the reality. I just could not picture the dorky type of concert that Conrad is trying to push. Who in their right mind would enjoy such an event? Music is not a debate. Art, literature and music are the perspective of the artist who is imparting their craft - no one is expecting a balanced picture, and if they received it, they would be experiencing something that is hypocritical and a lie. Mark Twain once said that people who do not read newspapers are un-informed, and people who do read newspapers are mis-informed. His point was that the reader needs to seek out their own balance, not expect to have it handed to them. Conrad, you are twisting in the wind with your opinion on this one. You are certainly entitled to think as you wish, but that doesn't mean you are correct. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: olddude Date: 31 Mar 10 - 10:16 AM someone said before, If they pay to go to a John Prine concert, they sure as heck hope he will monopolize the stage. That is what people came to see and hear and PAID for. I would be pretty upset if I paid good money and ended up seeing the stage shared by someone else for half the concert ... It is their concert, pay and go see them or don't pay and don't see them. The beauty of freedom is we have the choice on how to spend our money and what entertainment we choose to spend it on ... right |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 31 Mar 10 - 02:25 PM "When one monopolizes the stages and media it is not good but songs themselves are harmless" Good grief. The Smothers Brothers Show was an hour a week 40 years ago. Pete Seeger's tv appearances were probably less than 100 over his lifetime of 90 plus years. Their radio appearances and recorded music are similarly minute, comparatively speaking. Pete wrote a column for Singout magazine, read by a limited audience. What, exactly, monopoly are you talking about? Consider the songs "We Shall Overcome" and "Joe Hill." Explain why they are without power. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 31 Mar 10 - 02:52 PM "What, exactly, monopoly are you talking about? Consider the songs "We Shall Overcome" and "Joe Hill." Explain why they are without power." Conrad will never admit that the monopoly came from the "other side" that limited opportunties for appearances on the radio. Conrad fails to understand that having an opportunity to share views IS the sharing of that stage by the owners of the platform - not the artists who are using their opportunity. Conrad will never admit that folk music comes from a community, and the community that "created" Joe Hill and we Shal Overcome is a folk community. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: frogprince Date: 31 Mar 10 - 03:06 PM Peasant, you deny any personal fascist leanings. If so, I must say you have done an incredible amount toward making yourself misunderstood here. I first noticed you when you objected to "alienating" fascists. At every turn, you seem to advocate welcoming extremists beyond the pale of what is normally considered the "right wing", and actively inviting them to share the stage. I believe that you said you are an American in the UK. One question: Do you believe that, for the sake of fair balance in the U.S., an effort should be made to bring the KKK and similar white supremists to the stage to share their perspective? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Don Firth Date: 31 Mar 10 - 03:30 PM Conrad, read a little history, for cryin' out loud!!!! On August 18th, 1955, Pete Seeger was subpoenaed to appear before the House Un-American Activities Committee, and as a result of that encounter, he was banned from appearing on television, his recordings were banned from radio, and most organizations considered him "too controversial" and cancelled his concert bookings. This lasted for quite a while. In 1963, "ABC Hootenanny" wanted Joan Baez to appear on their show, but she, and a number of other singers, refused until they booked Pete Seeger, which they (ABC) refused to do. Finally--Finally—on September of 1967, at the insistence of the Smothers Brothers, Pete was allowed by CBS to appear on their September 10th show. When Pete sang "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy," CBS cut it from the show. At the Smothers Brothers' insistence, he reappeared on their February 25th, 1968 show where he was allowed to sing the song. So, Conrad--you tell me who is censoring whom here, and who is denying whom the right to appear on stage and sing what they wish? And who is "monopolizing" the stage? Get a grip, man! Don Firth P. S. By the way, "We Shall Overcome" was an anthem for the Civil Rights Movement. I don't consider the Civil Rights Movement to be a negative. Do you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: emjay Date: 31 Mar 10 - 03:50 PM There are some really strange statements and semantics on this thread. A Southern gospel convention where an athiest is invited on stage? I have never heard of that! Or that Hank Willimas Jr. or Toby Keith invites a lefty.... I'll be darned. That would be totally unexpected by audience and by lefty, wouldn't it? Egad. None of the C&W crowd had any time nor even kind words for the Dixie Chicks. And the straight gospel crowd doesn't even like the tongues talkers (and vice-versa) let alone the athiests. And what on earth is a "liberal fascist?" Isn't that an oxymoron? Perhaps the writer meant an extreme fascist -- or it is considered fascist to push ones leftist views? Pete Seeger is a great American hero who has spent a lifetime singing and doing what he believes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: Bettynh Date: 31 Mar 10 - 06:09 PM "Seeger did many fine things and its a long list" Not really. He played banjo and wrote a book of instructions. He made friends and was loyal to them. When attacked verbally, he invoked his Constitutional right of free speech (as opposed to right to refuse self-incriminalization). He built 2 houses and a boat. He is a husband and father. For a long time he wrote a column in a magazine with a tiny circulation. He's lived a long time. He traveled with his family when he could. He has been consistent in his thinking, and admitted he made mistakes. It's not what Pete has done for us, it's who he IS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Seeger Smothers Party- Left=right? From: *#1 PEASANT* Date: 31 Mar 10 - 08:13 PM seeger was a great guy who did many things wonderous but sharing the stage with those with whom he disagreed.... I don't think it ever happened.... do you know the definition of hyporcrite? seeger often preached that we should all come together.... What then was his problem? Don't think he ever shared the stage with an opposing political view. Ok then prove me wrong! Cant get people together unless you share the media which he and smothers and othes dominated..... So what is the end view.... a man who brought people together or a man who insisted on one point of view. Bringing one point of view together at the expense of all others is not an achievement it is manipulation of the media. No differnet than nationalist germany. of course you could prove me wrong! Go for it! Conrad |
