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Chord Req: Joy of My Heart (Tannahill Weavers)

buddhuu 31 Mar 10 - 06:30 AM
Little Robyn 31 Mar 10 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,buddhuu 31 Mar 10 - 05:04 PM
buddhuu 01 Apr 10 - 08:52 AM
Little Robyn 01 Apr 10 - 08:42 PM
Little Robyn 03 Apr 10 - 05:32 AM
Little Robyn 03 Apr 10 - 05:42 AM
GUEST,crazy little woman 03 Apr 10 - 01:39 PM
Little Robyn 03 Apr 10 - 03:34 PM
buddhuu 03 Apr 10 - 08:15 PM
buddhuu 04 Apr 10 - 06:15 AM
buddhuu 07 Apr 10 - 03:52 PM
buddhuu 07 Apr 10 - 03:57 PM
Murray MacLeod 07 Apr 10 - 06:09 PM
Murray MacLeod 08 Apr 10 - 02:27 AM
Little Robyn 08 Apr 10 - 03:41 AM
buddhuu 08 Apr 10 - 05:12 AM
buddhuu 08 Apr 10 - 05:21 AM
Jim McLean 08 Apr 10 - 06:16 AM
buddhuu 08 Apr 10 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Apr 10 - 10:28 AM
buddhuu 08 Apr 10 - 11:19 AM
Little Robyn 08 Apr 10 - 03:41 PM
Jim McLean 08 Apr 10 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,leeneia 08 Apr 10 - 06:03 PM
Murray MacLeod 08 Apr 10 - 06:56 PM
DonMeixner 08 Apr 10 - 07:19 PM
buddhuu 09 Apr 10 - 05:04 AM
Little Robyn 09 Apr 10 - 05:52 AM
Jim McLean 09 Apr 10 - 07:01 AM
Little Robyn 09 Apr 10 - 07:35 AM
Jim McLean 09 Apr 10 - 08:30 AM
GUEST 09 Apr 10 - 09:21 AM
Jim McLean 09 Apr 10 - 09:31 AM
GUEST,leeneia 09 Apr 10 - 10:12 AM
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Subject: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weavers
From: buddhuu
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 06:30 AM

Hi guys,

I'd be very grateful if someone could help me out with chords to "Joy of My Heart" as played by the Tannahill Weavers. Or even as played by Archie Fisher, although I prefer the Tannahill's arrangement.

I can't seem to get 'em right.

Thanks in advance.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 02:51 PM

Which bits are you having bother with?
I don't have the Tannahill Weavers version but I know it from the Fisher family.
What key do you want it in?
Put in what you've got and we'll see if we can sort it from there.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: GUEST,buddhuu
Date: 31 Mar 10 - 05:04 PM

Hey Robyn,

Thanks for responding.

So far I have:

G                Em            Bm
Sing ye o' the Cuillins o' Skye
C                D      D7    G D
Harris, Dunvegan, fair Io-na
G             D       C       D
Joy of my heart, Eilean Mulligh


It sounds close, but I'm not sure about the Em in the first line - it could maybe stay on G maj. Overall it just sounds a little simplistic.

Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:52 AM

I picked the brains of a former bandmate (and current day-job colleague). He is a terrific guitar player and a total muso git.

He was at his desk when I emailed him and thus had no instrument, but as always, the b*st*rd seems to be able to do this stuff in his head.

I haven't experimented to test Barry's version yet, as I am also at work, but anyway, in case anyone is interested, this was his response by email...

"I don't really hear the Em in thefirst line, rather a G with a B in the bass. The first chord of the 3rd line could be construed as a Bm or a G/B. Thetrouble is that the melody note is a B in both instances, so either G, Bm or Em would work.

I also think the 'Io-ona' bit is more C to D.

G               G/B         Bm
Sing ye o' the Cuillins o' Skye
C          D      D7    C D
Harris, Dunvegan, fair Io-na
Bm       D      C      D
Joy of my heart, Eilean Mulligh

Nice toon.

Please let me know when he writes the missing 4th line."


I'll let you know what I think when I've tried it.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 01 Apr 10 - 08:42 PM

We have the Tannahill Weavers' CD so I'll have a listen to their version - it's similar but there are a few differences.
The Fisher family one was more basic and that's how I learnt it many years ago.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:32 AM

I've compared the two versions and I agree with your colleague for the Tannahill Weavers' version.
The Fisher Family version, led by Ray and Archie, has a slight variation in the chorus part:
G      C                   Em
Sing ye o' the Cuillins o' Skye
   F          G          F G
O' Harris, Dunvegan, Fair Iona,
C         F             G
Joy of my heart, Eileen Mulligh.
          C
Whether I wander east or west,
G                            F   G
Waking or dreaming, thou art near me
C       F             G
Joy of my heart, Eileen Mulligh.


Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 05:42 AM

Oops, the chords have drifted a bit. Try again.

(G)Sing ye (C)o' the Cuillins o' (Em)Skye
O'(F)Harris, Dun(G)vegan, Fair I(F)on(G)a,
(C)Joy of my (F)heart, Eileen (G)Mulligh.
Whether I (C)wander east or west,
(G)Waking or dreaming, thou art (F)near (G)me
(C)Joy of my (F)heart, Eileen (G)Mulligh.

Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 01:39 PM

Now then, is it Eileen (a woman) or Eilean (an island)?

And what does Mulligh mean?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 03:34 PM

I understand it's Isle of Mull. But I can't understand or spell Gaelic.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:15 PM

Check out some of the links on the search result page linked below. I know the lyrics have been discussed at length in the past...

Google results for "Joy of My Heart" lyrics on Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 04 Apr 10 - 06:15 AM

Hey Robyn,

I just had a chance to compare the two versions, playing along with the recordings with a guitar on my lap.

The Fisher version is a little different, innit? Both versions are great. I have a particular liking for the Tannahill one, but those little differences make each version interesting in its own right.

I think I'll probably play both depending on how I feel!

Many thanks for your help. :-)


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 03:52 PM

Update: The more I listen to Archie Fisher's version the more I'm coming to prefer that. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 03:57 PM

I also meant to explain that the versions I'd mostly heard were the Tannahill's one and Archie's solo one. That's the one I'm referring to when I mention him.

I have heard the Fisher Family version too, but it doesn't work quite as well for me as Archie on his own or the Tannahill one.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 06:09 PM

I am not familiar with the Tannahill's version of the song, nor, I have to say, with Archie's (although I did hear him sing it in concert a couple of times) but what I can say is that I have known this song for over fifty years, having (literally) learnt it at my mother's knee.

First off, the second line is a mondegreen.

It isn't
..." Harris, Dunvegan, Fair Iona " ...

it's
..." Harris, or Eigg, fair Iona "

(The song is all about islands, Dunvegan isn't an island ...)

As I say , I'm not familiar with any recorded versions, but I know what my mother sang fifty-odd years ago ...

As far as the chords go, you need to realise that this is one of these songs which end on an unresolved dominant, so in fact, the chord in the first bar isn't in fact G, it's still D from the previous verse.

This leads to what I would modestly term the definitive chords for the song, which would be:

(D)Sing ye (G)o' the (Em)Cuillins o' (Bm)Skye
(F)Harris, or (Am)Eigg, (D)Fair I(G)on(D)a,
(G)Joy of my (F)heart, (C)Eilan (D)Muileach.

Whether I (G)wander (Em) east or (Bm)west,
(C)Waking or (Am)dreaming, (D)thou art (G)near (D)me
(G)Joy of my (F)heart, (C)Eilean (D)Muileach.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 02:27 AM

oops, just noticed that the chords in the second line should be

(C)Harris, or (Am)Eigg, (D)Fair I(G)on(D)a,

no F there ...


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:41 AM

I always thought it was "Harris, or Eigg, or fair Iona" but the words printed on the Tannahill's CD insert are "Harris, Dunvegan, fair Iona".
So which is the mondegreen? Which words did Hugh Roberton write?
Also, is it Eilean Mulligh, Muileach or, from this site,
"the island of Mingulay (Gael: Miughalaigh)"
Is it Mull or Mingulay?
The Fisher family recording is lovely - with a young Ray and Archie singing the verses and the childrens voices joining them for the chorus. That's Joyce, Cindy, Audrey and a very young Cilla - she looks and sounds about 10 years old!
I just love it.
A few years back I asked Ray to sign the record for us and she wrote on the front:
    Ancient monument!
It's Topic no. 12T137 but I doubt if you'll find a copy now, unless it's been turned into a CD.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 05:12 AM

"...All about islands..."

Hmm... The first line is about mountains - albeit a mountain range on an island, namely Skye. By similar token, Dunvegan is also on Skye. So, it is about islands, and about features of the islands in question.

Dunvegan fits very nicely into the song, and it's a nice name. :-D As Robyn said, it'd be good to know what Robertson actually wrote.

Thanks for the chord interpretation, Murray. I'll try it out when I get home.

Not sure where you get that "definitive" theory from? Even the few versions of this song that I know differ from each other significantly, and each has slightly different chords. If one has only a sung, or written "top line" melody to use as a starting point then any chord arrangement is subjective, unless one knows the accompaniment intended by the writer.

You can probably identify the scale or mode to which the melody conforms, implying a pool of appropriate chords, but even if the melody follows a pretty cliched structure, the final selection depends upon how the arranger wants to colour the accompaniment.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 05:21 AM

Also meant to acknowledge that I think Archie Fisher sings "Harris, and Eigg, and fair Iona" in his solo version. That is quite likely the original wording.

In the first paragraph of my post of a few moments ago, I meant that in the Tannahill's version it is about islands and features thereof. Clearly in the other version it is, as you say, mostly a list of islands. Apologies for my vagueness there.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 06:16 AM

If you go here Malcolm Douglas where the late Malcolm Douglas explained all regarding original words and by whom.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 08:35 AM

Thanks, Jim.

That pretty much settles the original lyrics issue. Now there're just the chords to fight over... :-D


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:28 AM

What a coincidence. Last night I reached into my cassette tapes and pulled out a tape called 'The Sound of Mull' by a group by the same name. I bought it in Scotland in 1995.

That tape has a song called:

Eilean Mo Cridh, Muile Ghradhach

which they translate as 'Joy of my heart, Isle of Mull.'

I know just enough to say that:

Eilean = island
mo = my
cridh = heart.

and I bet Muile = Mull. The group is from Mull, so they ought to know, right?

It is a charming tune in 3/4. Does that sound like the same tune as the T. Weavers number? (I find it hard to picture them doing a charming tune in 3/4.)

============
Does anybody know what 'Ghradhach' means?


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 11:19 AM

"I find it hard to picture them doing a charming tune in 3/4"

Yet, it is precisely that. :-)


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 03:41 PM

Jim, the words in Malcolm's post all seem to lead back to Tannahill words - from their CD.
I've tried Googling Hugh Roberton but haven't found his own lyrics for it.
Maybe Ray or Archie might remember where they found their words?
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 04:21 PM

Little Robyn, didn't you say the Tannahill Weavers' lyrics were "Harris, Dunvegan, fair Iona" where Roberton says "Of Harris, or Eigg, or fair Iona" which is what the Fishers sang.
I'm confused.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 06:03 PM

Hi, Buddhuu. It's probably the same song then.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 06:56 PM

buddhuu, of course it is possible to accompany the song in different ways, you could lose the minors, and the F major, and do the 3 chord trick, it would "work" but you would lose a lot of the flavour.

What is a given is that the chord in the first bar is a D, not a G, as your colleague suggested.

Try doing an instrumental lead-in playing the melody of the last line, and you will see that a G is impossible in the opening bar, it has to be a D.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: DonMeixner
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 07:19 PM

The Fisher Family's version is about identical to The Corries which is no surprise as Archie played on their early recordings. I like Little Robyn's read on the chords. I have substituted a D for the Bm now and then with immunity.

Don


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: buddhuu
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:04 AM

buddhuu, of course it is possible to accompany the song in different ways, you could lose the minors, and the F major, and do the 3 chord trick, it would "work" but you would lose a lot of the flavour.

What is a given is that the chord in the first bar is a D, not a G, as your colleague suggested.

Try doing an instrumental lead-in playing the melody of the last line, and you will see that a G is impossible in the opening bar, it has to be a D.


Lose a lot of what flavour, Murray? To have a "flavour" of accompaniment to lose surely one has to be starting with an existing arrangement for reference. If all one has is top-line melody (which, with respect, is all you would have had from your mother's singing - unless she accompanied herself), then the flavour of the accompaniment is undefined. Different arrangers will hear different flavours implied by the movement between intervals according to their harmonic preference.

I'm afraid a G works much better for me than a D when I... ahem... "sing" and play it.

I'm no musical genius, but I am sceptical of "definitive" chord arrangements for songs learned aurally from unaccompanied singing. I think there are choices involved.

But then I'm a liberal.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 05:52 AM

Jim, I haven't found anything definative to say which words Roberton wrote - the Dunvegan bit or the Eigg bit.
I miss Malcolm. I'm sure he would have found an original manuscript hand written by Sir Hugh by now.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 07:01 AM

Little Royn, Malcolm makes clear in his posting of the lyrics in both English and Gaelic that the English words (Eigg bit) were written by Roberton before Bammerman translated them into Gaelic. It was the 10th posting in that thread and later on Malcolm explains where he got the lyrics from.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Little Robyn
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 07:35 AM

Yes Jim. Malcolm says "The Tannahill recording is closer to Roberton's original song." But then goes on to quote the Fisher words, which is where I'm confused.
Apparently it was Archie and Ray's Mum's favourite song so I guess that's where they got the words.
Cheers,
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 08:30 AM

I see what you mean, Little Robyn, but Malcolm is quoting from a Curwen publication, copyrighted in 1934, permission given by the Gaelic Society (An Comunn Gaidhealach). I knew Mrs Fisher, the mother of Archie et all, and she was a Gaelic speaker and although the Gaelic came after the English, there is no mention of Dunvegan in Bannerman's translation "Luaidhibhse mu'n Chuilionn ghreannach Eig 'sna Hearradh 's I nan gràsan" which speaks of the Cuillans, Eigg and Harris and Mrs Fisher would have known that.
I would assume therefor she would have thought the original English was "Eigg ...".
As this version was approved by An Comunn Gaidhealach I would be convinced that "Dunvegan .." is a victim of the folk process.


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:21 AM

It does seem that "Dunvegan" is either mondegreen as suggested by Murray, or conscious adjustment to suit the preference of a singer - perhaps with a soft spot for Dunvegan.

I started this thread with a clear preference for the Tannahill Weavers' version. Possibly due to repeated listening during the analytical process I have now developed a strong preference for Archie Fisher's solo version! Consequently I have also modified my preference from "Dunvegan" to "Eigg". As that seems likely to be the original wording, I am now able to sing it with a clear conscience!

This exploration process is enormous fun. I live and learn. :-)


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 09:31 AM

PS I should have added that "I nan gràsan" is a translation of "fair isle of Iona"


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Subject: RE: Chord Req: 'Joy of My Heart' as byTannahill Weaver
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Apr 10 - 10:12 AM

About the chords - it is perfectly legal to use one chord at a certain place in one place in one verse, and another chord in the same place in another verse. For example, in a happy verse you might use a G, and in a sad verse you might use an Em.

I have done this myself, in church no less, and nobody arrested me.

You can also do this just for the sake of variety. I believe they never do it on the radio, but folkies are more independent-minded and smarter, and we can do it.


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